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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/27/2018 12:10:41 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mahrgell


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Here is a recent info screen and one from four months before. He's caught up a bit.



End of July he still needed to gain ~71k VP to get an auto victory, end of November he needs ~79k.
As I believe avoiding/achieving an AV is the main goal in '45 for both sides, he is now farther away from that than he was 4 months ago.

So I wouldn't call it "He caught up a bit". I think you did extraordinarily well in pushing him back from his goal.
He needs more points to grind, has 4 months less time to do so, and your capabilities to resist him gaining the points he need have been barely touched.


I hadn't thought of it that way. Right. It's true that the more points I gain the harder it is for him to achieve auto-victory. So this attrition campaign is good for me in several ways as long as I can ride the line of staying competitive while trading a lot of material.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Mahrgell)
Post #: 2161
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/27/2018 2:22:46 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mahrgell


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Here is a recent info screen and one from four months before. He's caught up a bit.



End of July he still needed to gain ~71k VP to get an auto victory, end of November he needs ~79k.
As I believe avoiding/achieving an AV is the main goal in '45 for both sides, he is now farther away from that than he was 4 months ago.

So I wouldn't call it "He caught up a bit". I think you did extraordinarily well in pushing him back from his goal.
He needs more points to grind, has 4 months less time to do so, and your capabilities to resist him gaining the points he need have been barely touched.


I hadn't thought of it that way. Right. It's true that the more points I gain the harder it is for him to achieve auto-victory. So this attrition campaign is good for me in several ways as long as I can ride the line of staying competitive while trading a lot of material.


I am not sure what more you want....Allies landed I recall on June 6th with a kitchen sink attack, and here now almost Dec look at how little they have grown.

This AAR is becoming the textbook defense against the kitchen sink attack. The Allies are certainly making it more difficult by not cutting the oil and fuel flows to Honshu.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2162
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/27/2018 3:09:42 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mahrgell


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Here is a recent info screen and one from four months before. He's caught up a bit.



End of July he still needed to gain ~71k VP to get an auto victory, end of November he needs ~79k.
As I believe avoiding/achieving an AV is the main goal in '45 for both sides, he is now farther away from that than he was 4 months ago.

So I wouldn't call it "He caught up a bit". I think you did extraordinarily well in pushing him back from his goal.
He needs more points to grind, has 4 months less time to do so, and your capabilities to resist him gaining the points he need have been barely touched.


I hadn't thought of it that way. Right. It's true that the more points I gain the harder it is for him to achieve auto-victory. So this attrition campaign is good for me in several ways as long as I can ride the line of staying competitive while trading a lot of material.


I am not sure what more you want....Allies landed I recall on June 6th with a kitchen sink attack, and here now almost Dec look at how little they have grown.

This AAR is becoming the textbook defense against the kitchen sink attack. The Allies are certainly making it more difficult by not cutting the oil and fuel flows to Honshu.


Shhhhhhh!! We don't talk about that here. Lalalalalala. Fuel? Never heard of that. Oil? Hmmmm. Do we use that?

I am not dissatisfied,. It's been really fun to play this game and Dan makes every turn a challenge. You ask what I want? Well, that's complicated!

Right now I want the next turn back as I tried something and hope I didn't do too much!

As of last turn 8 x Ki-83 rolled off the factory floor!!

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2163
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/27/2018 3:36:12 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mahrgell

End of July he still needed to gain ~71k VP to get an auto victory, end of November he needs ~79k.
As I believe avoiding/achieving an AV is the main goal in '45 for both sides, he is now farther away from that than he was 4 months ago.

So I wouldn't call it "He caught up a bit". I think you did extraordinarily well in pushing him back from his goal.
He needs more points to grind, has 4 months less time to do so, and your capabilities to resist him gaining the points he need have been barely touched.


I agree completely. He has to generate 79k in AV in less than 10 months or else he 'loses the war'. An excellent example of trading time for (meaningless) territory.

_____________________________


(in reply to Mahrgell)
Post #: 2164
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/27/2018 4:59:17 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Dec 7, 1944

Three years of this campaign! What a ride!

The turn is relatively quiet. It does look like the DS has moved back. I've set some LBA strikes. I'll finally hit the undefended Toyohara fields. I expect to lose lot of planes to flak, but at 15k maybe the high experience pilots I'm using can make it worth it.

I've also set some strikes on Ketoi! We'll see how that goes. Could be trouble.

Not much happening but mig bombing runs at Uruppa. He even sent in the Helldivers! I hope tomorrow to catch some of those.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 7, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Uruppu-jima (130,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 7975 troops, 248 guns, 241 vehicles, Assault Value = 2753

Defending force 48223 troops, 338 guns, 120 vehicles, Assault Value = 963

Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

< Message edited by obvert -- 7/27/2018 9:14:29 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2165
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/27/2018 7:59:26 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Always keep in mind that the Allied player must achieve an auto victory before 1 September 1945 in order to win the game decisively.  Getting there after 31 August 1945 means the absolute best he can achieve is a marginal victory and that constitutes in reality an "Allied defeat" as the Allied performance is far below par when assessed in historical terms.

Alfred



Alfred I'm disappointed.

We all know fully well nothing about a "game" wherein one side is artificially enhanced to 'make it viable to play" can be fairly compared to historical outcomes.

A marginal victory in the 'game' is a victory plain and simply.

The Japanese player can rightly thump his chest for his performance in holding the Allies to a mere marginal Victory, but he simply cannot claim a "win" unless the Allied side does indeed "lose" the game.

Who knows, maybe Dan won't even manage a marginal victory......then all the debate over nuance would be moot.


_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 2166
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/27/2018 11:54:07 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Dec 8, 1944

The strikes I set went in fairly unhindered on the 8th, but as I've seen so many times, neither th DBs nor the TBs can hit Allied destroyers it the late game. Kamis can, but I don't have those yet. So the many naval strikes of the day come away sinking a handful of YMS and maybe one old Dutch DD. The port strikes didn't fly against Ketoi, and so my sweeps there that got almost even results went in for nothing. Interestingly Dan chose this turn to begin working the fields at Simushiri-jima.

This brings up an interesting game quirk I've noticed. If I have an empty airfield and move planes in during a turn, the Allies will see an airfield occupied icon pop up before they give orders. I usually leave small FP group on all islands for just this reason. Guess which one I forgot to do this on this turn. Yep. Shimushiri-jima.

So this proves nothing other than that Dan is paying close attention to details. I'd expect nothing less, but I have to be more careful.

The strikes on Toyohara do moderately well, but most of the 2E are away. That's fine as I hit them with LR CAP over Uruppa anyway. Got a lot of Venturas again.

So all moves back after the turn and it's digging into the defence now for a bit. I've got to get some groups fleshed out now.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 8, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 31st Infantry Regiment, at 125,43 , near Shikuka

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 37,300 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 35

Allied aircraft
P-38L Lightning x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38L Lightning: 3 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x N1K2-J George sweeping at 35300 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 89 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 20
B7A2 Grace x 27
N1K2-J George x 25
N1K5-J George x 19
Ki-84a Frank x 28

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 10 damaged
B7A2 Grace: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Schroeder
DD De Haven II
DD Blue II

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x B7A2 Grace releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 18
D4Y3 Judy x 6
D4Y4 Judy x 26
N1K5-J George x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 5 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 4 damaged
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Maury
YMS-97, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DD Blue II
DD Gridley
DD Craven
DD De Haven II
DD Downes

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 11 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Abner Read
DD Prichett
DD Pringle

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 100 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 19
D4Y3 Judy x 20
N1K5-J George x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 1 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Van Galen, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Tjerk Hiddes

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Etorofu at 129,52

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 50
D4Y3 Judy x 30

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
YMS-136, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-102, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
YMS-135

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 29

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 23 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Blue II
DD Schroeder
DD Wickes
DD De Haven II
DD Dyson

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ketoi-jima , at 134,50

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 143 NM, estimated altitude 40,910 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 51
N1K1-J George x 9

Allied aircraft
P-38L Lightning x 8
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 11
P-51D Mustang x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 35
F6F-3 Hellcat x 11
F6F-5 Hellcat x 54

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 10 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 7 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x J2M5 Jack sweeping at 36910 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 154 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 42 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 88

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 11 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 16 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 11 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 6 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5A Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
PV-1 Ventura: 2 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 destroyed on ground
B-25H Mitchell: 2 damaged
F-5E Lightning: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 8
Runway hits 25

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ketoi-jima , at 134,50

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 117 NM, estimated altitude 44,270 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 9
Ki-84r Frank x 27

Allied aircraft
P-38L Lightning x 8
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 11
P-51D Mustang x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 23
F6F-3 Hellcat x 10
F6F-5 Hellcat x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 154 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 48 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 27
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 52

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 10 damaged
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 11 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F-13 Superfortress: 5 damaged
PBY-5A Catalina: 4 damaged
PBY-5A Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
F-5E Lightning: 11 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 7 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 1 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 2 damaged

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 21

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 147 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 22
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 27

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 7 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
TBM-1C Avenger: 14 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 2 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 3 damaged

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shimushiri-jima , at 132,51

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 43,300 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 12
J2M5 Jack x 4
N1K1-J George x 7
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 5 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Uruppu-jima , at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 58 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 19
Ki-84a Frank x 16

Allied aircraft
PV-1 Ventura x 55

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 16 damaged
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
PV-1 Ventura: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 40

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x PV-1 Ventura bombing from 5000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Shimushiri-jima , at 132,51

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 1

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 48
B-29-1 Superfort x 14
B-29-25 Superfort x 19
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 31
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 5 destroyed on ground
A6M8 Zero: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 14 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 7 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 2 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 11
Runway hits 47

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Uruppu-jima , at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 11
Ki-84a Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
PV-1 Ventura x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
PV-1 Ventura: 9 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Uruppu-jima , at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 51 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 6
Ki-84a Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
B-25H Mitchell x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25H Mitchell: 6 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Uruppu-jima , at 130,52

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 4
Ki-84a Frank x 1

Allied aircraft
B-25H Mitchell x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-25H Mitchell: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged

Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-25H Mitchell bombing and strafing from low level
Airfield Attack: 1 plane(s) with no ordnance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Uruppu-jima (130,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4425 troops, 214 guns, 197 vehicles, Assault Value = 2792

Defending force 48400 troops, 338 guns, 120 vehicles, Assault Value = 973

Japanese ground losses:
94 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2167
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/28/2018 2:24:48 AM   
Anachro


Posts: 2506
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline 		How close would he have to be for kamikaze's to activate? I'd imagine he knows and will not want to let that happen until he in a position to smother your airfields in the Kuriles and Hokkaido to minimize potential attacks from different vectors.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2168
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 6:55:30 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

How close would he have to be for kamikaze's to activate? I'd imagine he knows and will not want to let that happen until he in a position to smother your airfields in the Kuriles and Hokkaido to minimize potential attacks from different vectors.


Kamis activate only very close to Hokkaido unfortunately. I think the inner two islands, Kunashiri and Shikotan, plus I think Etorofu, are inside the kami activation zone.

Strangely, I think at least two home island bases, Maizuru and Kanazawa, are also outside the zone unless there is a special rule about bases with the 100 code also activating kamis. )Maybe a couple more actually depending how the count is taken from Tokyo (21 hexes IIRC, but does it count actual movement through the straits which has a jog in it or just the hexes by sea?)

Anyway. No kamis for a while.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 2169
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 10:58:41 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		that was what, 150 between torpedo bombers and dive bombers, and no hit on the ships(DDs)?

Never saw and never heard anything like that; don't think their high AA can explain this; Idaho and escorts did have also high AA;

hope this is an isolated case only...

that burns but;

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2170
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 12:20:16 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

that was what, 150 between torpedo bombers and dive bombers, and no hit on the ships(DDs)?

Never saw and never heard anything like that; don't think their high AA can explain this; Idaho and escorts did have also high AA;

hope this is an isolated case only...

that burns but;


It's late war Allied flak on Destroyers. I've seen a lot of similar things in 44-45. Destroyers are highly maneuverble, have good flak ratings and are very fast when not tied to larger ships. Very hard to hit without kamis.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2171
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 2:21:52 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Yes, this I get, but still the numbers brought against them were such that the ensuing results make wonder.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2172
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 5:27:19 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Yes, this I get, but still the numbers brought against them were such that the ensuing results make wonder.


Getting that first hit on them is difficult. Thereafter, as their speed and maneuverability decreases (due to damage), they are significantly easier to score on.

_____________________________


(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2173
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 8:50:07 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Yes, this I get, but still the numbers brought against them were such that the ensuing results make wonder.


Getting that first hit on them is difficult. Thereafter, as their speed and maneuverability decreases (due to damage), they are significantly easier to score on.


Exactly. I tried using the Grace as DB for this reason, since it has 2 x 250kg and thus is more accurate than any other plane in the arsenal. No luck this time, but it's worked before, so I'll keep trying periodically.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2174
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 9:02:52 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Exactly. I tried using the Grace as DB for this reason, since it has 2 x 250kg and thus is more accurate than any other plane in the arsenal. No luck this time, but it's worked before, so I'll keep trying periodically.


Obvert,

could you please elaborate on the passage marked in red? Is it supposed to imply if a plane has a number of N bombs to spend, hit probability is higher than if N planes drop one bomb each? Or is it just that the plane (or rather group of planes) has picked the target, so it is guaranteed that all bombs of this plane are used on this target, whereas N planes may pick different targets?

In this context, my suspicion is that target selection is determined in a first step of the raid execution. This is motiviated by my impression that sometimes ships are attacked which have already been sunk, but I may be wrong. Any comment is appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Hartwig

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2175
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 9:17:05 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: modrow

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
Exactly. I tried using the Grace as DB for this reason, since it has 2 x 250kg and thus is more accurate than any other plane in the arsenal. No luck this time, but it's worked before, so I'll keep trying periodically.


Obvert,

could you please elaborate on the passage marked in red? Is it supposed to imply if a plane has a number of N bombs to spend, hit probability is higher than if N planes drop one bomb each? Or is it just that the plane (or rather group of planes) has picked the target, so it is guaranteed that all bombs of this plane are used on this target, whereas N planes may pick different targets?

In this context, my suspicion is that target selection is determined in a first step of the raid execution. This is motiviated by my impression that sometimes ships are attacked which have already been sunk, but I may be wrong. Any comment is appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Hartwig


This is just referring to the Grace as being a fast, agile DB with two bombs. So this plane has a higher chance of getting to target than others I can field due to its combination of speed and maneuverability to get to target, plus it drops two bombs instead of one in a DB attack, which is more accurate than level bombing.

I don't think ships are attacked which have already been sunk. Sinking condition, yes, but not actually sunk. Often there is a message that appears during a turn when a ship is not attacked which just says _______ is sunk.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 2176
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 9:57:57 PM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

This is just referring to the Grace as being a fast, agile DB with two bombs. So this plane has a higher chance of getting to target than others I can field due to its combination of speed and maneuverability to get to target, plus it drops two bombs instead of one in a DB attack, which is more accurate than level bombing.

I don't think ships are attacked which have already been sunk. Sinking condition, yes, but not actually sunk. Often there is a message that appears during a turn when a ship is not attacked which just says _______ is sunk.


Thanks for the clarification.

What I refer to is not the ... is sunk message in the combat report. But I think I recall seeing sometimes during the replay planes are attacking empty sea without a ship being displayed if said ship has been attacked previously. I'll try to get a screenshot next time I see it (happens only occasionally though).

Hartwig

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2177
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 10:24:42 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: modrow

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

This is just referring to the Grace as being a fast, agile DB with two bombs. So this plane has a higher chance of getting to target than others I can field due to its combination of speed and maneuverability to get to target, plus it drops two bombs instead of one in a DB attack, which is more accurate than level bombing.

I don't think ships are attacked which have already been sunk. Sinking condition, yes, but not actually sunk. Often there is a message that appears during a turn when a ship is not attacked which just says _______ is sunk.


Thanks for the clarification.

What I refer to is not the ... is sunk message in the combat report. But I think I recall seeing sometimes during the replay planes are attacking empty sea without a ship being displayed if said ship has been attacked previously. I'll try to get a screenshot next time I see it (happens only occasionally though).

Hartwig


Yeah, right, if there are no more ships present as they sunk in the middle of the strike this can happen.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 2178
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/29/2018 10:25:25 PM   
GetAssista

 

Posts: 2732
Joined: 9/19/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: modrow
What I refer to is not the ... is sunk message in the combat report. But I think I recall seeing sometimes during the replay planes are attacking empty sea without a ship being displayed if said ship has been attacked previously. I'll try to get a screenshot next time I see it (happens only occasionally though).

It happens when a TF bombed in the morning phase does not live long enough to see the afternoon phase attack. I believe whole TF should be sunk for your planes to arrive at empty sea and not pick other targets. Otherwise planes attack other ships in the TF

(in reply to modrow)
Post #: 2179
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 3:13:31 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

If I have an empty airfield and move planes in during a turn, the Allies will see an airfield occupied icon pop up before they give orders.


Hey obvert, I thought this free Allied intel was corrected in one of the official patches. Are you sure it is still happening? I had written this off as a concern a long time ago and maybe I need to pay more attention to it again.

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2180
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 3:24:27 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica

quote:

If I have an empty airfield and move planes in during a turn, the Allies will see an airfield occupied icon pop up before they give orders.


Hey obvert, I thought this free Allied intel was corrected in one of the official patches. Are you sure it is still happening? I had written this off as a concern a long time ago and maybe I need to pay more attention to it again.


I didn't hear it was corrected, but I've had some uncanny coincidences if I don't have an air group in the base and move planes in. It's happened 2-3 times that I remember in this game while Dan was playing it.

It could be complete chance. It's just that (as in previous incidences) he hadn't bombed this target for months, I moved planes in and the next day a massive raid arrives. Then nothing after I move the planes away either, so it den's feel like a strategic idea, just a tactical one based on intel.

I'd have to run a PBEM test to see for sure.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 2181
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 4:07:12 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Dec 9-10, 1944

A quiet turn after the craziness. I left a few Frances turned on and they got nailed, but not catastrophically.

The Allies continue their assault on the Andamans. Little Andaman is taken on the 10th. I've been moving a bit of reserve into the area, but need a bit more in case there is a massive invasion of Sumatra or Malaya. I'll be sending another division to Singers that just arrived in Korea. Cheap purchase but it now needs to fill out. Not much more arriving until February, so I've got to make due here in the meantime.

He's using B-29s to bomb troops on Uruppa now. That might help a bit there, but makes me happy compared to the targets they could be hitting right now. I'm about to get another NF group, which will be sent to Manchuria and split up to defend multiple bases. I've got pretty good coverage now with about 50 NF in Tokyo, Osaka and Yokohama, but set at 1-2 hex bleed to get to other bases as well. There are some solid groups at Sapporo, Kushiro, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Sendai, Maebashi, Gifu, Kobe and some others spread around and bleeding.

There are about ten AA units arriving in the HI in a few turns plus another dozen elsewhere in China and Manchuria. I'll send all of them to industrial centres. Burma still gets 5-10 flak hits every day. The persistence of the Allied approach and consistency of the flak units has been incredible. I'm very curious to see what happens when the 2-5 plane groups flying now finally succumb to the 12cm tubes and halt ops. What will be left when the Wellingtons, Beauforts, Lib II and B-17E are gone?

On the 10th I revisited Toyohara as well. Got even results, but hit a few decent planes including destroying an F-13, the recon B-29, and damaging lots of others. The flak is harsh, but depending on what he's basing here it can be worth a visit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 9, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Uruppu-jima at 130,52

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 3,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 18

Allied aircraft
F6F-3 Hellcat x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 4 destroyed, 11 damaged
P1Y2 Frances: 2 destroyed by flak

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
DD Little II
DD Halsey Powell
DD Porter II

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

CAP engaged:
VF-26 with F6F-3 Hellcat (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 4000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 4000.
Raid is overhead

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Uruppu-jima (130,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 83910 troops, 1482 guns, 1291 vehicles, Assault Value = 2819

Defending force 48508 troops, 338 guns, 120 vehicles, Assault Value = 979

Japanese ground losses:
140 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment
5th Australian/A Division
3rd Motor Brigade
37th Infantry Division
5th Australian/B Division
713th Flame Tank Battalion
1st Regiment
1st Filipino Inf Regiment
815th Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
37th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
38th Infantry Division
58th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
4th USMC Tank Battalion
6th Infantry Division
158th(Sep) Infantry Regiment
43rd Infantry Division
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
5th Australian/C Division
XIV Corps Artillery
XIV US Corps
225th Field Artillery Battalion
1st Medium Regiment
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
3rd USA Defense Battalion
4th Field Artillery Battalion
Sixth US Army
259th Coastal Artillery Battalion
33rd Medium Regiment

Defending units:
5th Garrison Unit
48th Ind.Mixed Brigade
28th Division
302nd Ind.Infantry Battalion
114th Division
15th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Nanking Naval Guard Unit
4th Amphibious Brigade
1st Engr Rgt /1
100th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
35th Army
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
8th Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Little Andaman (44,59)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1467 troops, 51 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 43

Defending force 323 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Assaulting units:
18th Marine Defense Battalion

Defending units:
36th Const Co

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 10, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 128 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 22
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 24

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 19 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 6 damaged
F-13 Superfortress: 1 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 5 damaged
PBY-5A Catalina: 4 damaged
F-5E Lightning: 4 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 2 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 2 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 144 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 39 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 22
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 82
Ki-84a Frank x 13

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 25 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
PBY-5 Catalina: 5 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
PV-1 Ventura: 3 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 29 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 3 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 30 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 5 destroyed on ground
PBY-5A Catalina: 12 damaged
PBY-5A Catalina: 1 destroyed on ground
F-13 Superfortress: 26 damaged
F-13 Superfortress: 1 destroyed on ground
F-5E Lightning: 8 damaged
F-5E Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground
B-25H Mitchell: 5 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 5 damaged
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 damaged

Airbase hits 20
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 59

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
34 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
22 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 37 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 22
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 25
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 24

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 12 damaged
Ki-49-IIa Helen: 3 destroyed by flak
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 6 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 2 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F-5E Lightning: 6 damaged
F-5E Lightning: 1 destroyed on ground
TBM-1C Avenger: 5 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 5 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5A Catalina: 1 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 1 damaged
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 11

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x Ki-49-IIa Helen bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
22 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 109 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 30 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 23
Ki-84a Frank x 13

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 11 damaged
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 3 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
B-25H Mitchell: 1 damaged
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 4 damaged
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed on ground
F-13 Superfortress: 2 damaged

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Toyohara , at 124,46

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 151 NM, estimated altitude 19,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 47 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 22
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 21
Ki-84a Frank x 13

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 19 damaged
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 1 damaged
TBM-1C Avenger: 1 damaged
F-5E Lightning: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 15000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd Tank Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
Beaufort I x 3
Liberator B.VI x 3
Kittyhawk IV x 6
B-24J Liberator x 5
B-25D1 Mitchell x 9
B-25H Mitchell x 3
B-25J1 Mitchell x 3
B-25J11 Mitchell x 4
P-40N5 Warhawk x 40
P-51B Mustang x 7

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 2 damaged
Liberator B.VI: 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 5 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 6 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25J1 Mitchell: 3 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 3 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Beaufort I bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 14th Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator II x 3
Kittyhawk IV x 6
B-24J Liberator x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator II: 2 damaged
Liberator II: 1 destroyed by flak
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Liberator II bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 29th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 2
A-20G Havoc x 3
B-24J Liberator x 2
B-25D1 Mitchell x 6
B-25H Mitchell x 4
B-25J1 Mitchell x 10
P-40N5 Warhawk x 7

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D Mitchell: 2 damaged
A-20G Havoc: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-25D1 Mitchell: 5 damaged
B-25H Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-25J1 Mitchell: 10 damaged
B-25J1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-25J1 Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 94th Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IV x 6
B-24D1 Liberator x 2
B-24J Liberator x 9
B-25J1 Mitchell x 2

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D1 Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 6 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25J1 Mitchell: 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd Tank Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIc Trop x 47
Wellington B.X x 5
B-17E Fortress x 10
B-25C Mitchell x 4
B-25J11 Mitchell x 6
P-40N5 Warhawk x 7

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington B.X: 2 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 6 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25C Mitchell: 3 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 3 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-25J11 Mitchell bombing from 13000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 94th Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 28 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 10

Allied aircraft losses
A-20G Havoc: 9 damaged
A-20G Havoc: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x A-20G Havoc bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Tank Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 45 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk IV x 6
B-25J11 Mitchell x 10
P-40N5 Warhawk x 7

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J11 Mitchell: 10 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-25J11 Mitchell bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 14th Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 76 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 3

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pre-Invasion action off Uruppu-jima (130,52)
Defensive Guns engage approaching landing force

438 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LCI(G)-470
LCI(G)-469
LCI(G)-459
LCI(G)-455
LCI(G)-454
LCI(G)-453
LCI(G)-452
LCI(G)-451
LCI(G)-450
LCI(G)-449
LCI(G)-442
LCI(G)-441
LCI(G)-440
LCI(G)-439
LCI(M)-632
LCI(R)-226
LCI(R)-224
APA Latimer
DMS Hobson
PF Hoquiam

Japanese ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 14 (1 destroyed, 13 disabled)
Vehicles lost 41 (8 destroyed, 33 disabled)

LCI(G)-470 fired at enemy troops
LCI(R)-224 fired at enemy troops
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 4,000 yards
Defensive Guns fire at approaching troops in landing craft at 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Uruppu-jima (130,52)

TF 694 troops unloading over beach at Uruppu-jima, 130,52

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 38 (0 destroyed, 38 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (0 destroyed, 12 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Uruppu-jima (130,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4433 troops, 214 guns, 197 vehicles, Assault Value = 2849

Defending force 48399 troops, 337 guns, 120 vehicles, Assault Value = 976

Japanese ground losses:
290 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 19 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
158th(Sep) Infantry Regiment
37th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
815th Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
713th Flame Tank Battalion
5th Australian/A Division
4th USMC Tank Battalion
37th Infantry Division
43rd Infantry Division
I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment
58th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
6th Infantry Division
3rd Motor Brigade
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
1st Filipino Inf Regiment
38th Infantry Division
1st Regiment
5th Australian/B Division
5th Australian/C Division
XIV Corps Artillery
3rd USA Defense Battalion
4th Field Artillery Battalion
259th Coastal Artillery Battalion
XIV US Corps
33rd Medium Regiment
225th Field Artillery Battalion
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
Sixth US Army
1st Medium Regiment
28th Canadian AA Regiment

Defending units:
Nanking Naval Guard Unit
28th Division
302nd Ind.Infantry Battalion
114th Division
5th Garrison Unit
15th Ind. Engineer Regiment
4th Amphibious Brigade
48th Ind.Mixed Brigade
1st Engr Rgt /1
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
100th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
35th Army
8th Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Little Andaman (44,59)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 1475 troops, 51 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 43

Defending force 323 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Allied adjusted assault: 18

Japanese adjusted defense: 3

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 4)

Allied forces CAPTURE Little Andaman !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
130 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 11 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
18th Marine Defense Battalion

Defending units:
36th Const Co

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 7/30/2018 4:35:12 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2182
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 4:37:19 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
The persistence of the Allied approach and consistency of the flak units has been incredible. I'm very curious to see what happens when the 2-5 plane groups flying now finally succumb to the 12cm tubes and halt ops. What will be left when the Wellingtons, Beauforts, Lib II and B-17E are gone?



In previous games, I've noticed that CR doesn't pay much attention to unit morale-or at least he hasn't mentioned it in my recollection. With these sort of crippling losses and depleted air groups, I'd be astonished if the bomber unit morale wasn't in the toilet. That sort of insidious poor morale can sap a unit's combat performance as much as the small numbers.

Here's hoping that a USAAF mutiny is in the programming-akin to the French infantry and German navy in WWI.

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2183
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 5:29:32 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Yup. As I recall when other people mentioned it he seemed to be fine with at least fatigue figures much higher than I try to stay under. Don't recall hearing about morale.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2184
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 7:29:32 PM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Losses aren't that big after all, to effect morale;

speaking about the airfield bombardment, it gave , in my understanding, pretty good results, considered the altitude and weather...

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2185
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 8:41:50 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
The persistence of the Allied approach and consistency of the flak units has been incredible. I'm very curious to see what happens when the 2-5 plane groups flying now finally succumb to the 12cm tubes and halt ops. What will be left when the Wellingtons, Beauforts, Lib II and B-17E are gone?



In previous games, I've noticed that CR doesn't pay much attention to unit morale-or at least he hasn't mentioned it in my recollection. With these sort of crippling losses and depleted air groups, I'd be astonished if the bomber unit morale wasn't in the toilet. That sort of insidious poor morale can sap a unit's combat performance as much as the small numbers.

Here's hoping that a USAAF mutiny is in the programming-akin to the French infantry and German navy in WWI.


It's been interesting to play Dan and see things more from the inside. I've followed his AARs from the beginning, and while he tells a very compelling story and holds court masterfully, he doesn't usually offer the objective detail I'd like to see about a lot of the action in game. He used maps a lot more in his last one against J III, which was great and added a lot of awareness for what was happening.

On this side of the board though I've found he does get a lot of the nuance of the game, and he's good at creating surprising challenges. He can get into an exploitable pattern, but he throws curveballs too.

On the ground he does push troops that look from my perspective too disabled to be effective. That said, on Ketoi, and now Uruppa, he just adds more and keeps going. So it's worked so far. I'm curious what the next step is and what will be available. I'd say the Marines are prepping for something big. Korea? Hokkaido? Direct to Honshu?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 2186
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/30/2018 9:22:27 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Dec 11, 1944

The Allies DA at Uruppa again and do drop the forts this time, plus get a 1:1. They've been at it here for nearly a month, and the work, plus the two additional IDs, are now starting to pay off. The Allies lose a lot disabled, but the I have no way to bring more supply in, so other than a magic supply drop like the last one, I don't think I can do much to improve the situation.

An odd CAP trap happened unexpectedly today. I set three LSTs to bring supply to Shikotan near Hokkaido, and they returned to Kushiro. The Allied CVs launched a very small strike with a massive escort, and the CAP at Kushiro had a field day. About 140 Hellcats plus some Avengers and a few Corsairs are shot down on the day, and with no Allied units or boats in the base, so no life saving. I've had ships in the hex here as I can't disband them so close to Allied 4Es, but only ML and AMc. The LSTs triggered the massive strike. Something to play with again soon?

In the South my CAP at Pegu did okay in the morning when most of the sweeps and bombing runs arrived, but didn't last until the bombers came in. In the afternoon some Spits came in and did damage, but then a small B-24J strike also arrived and the CAP got into them. Overall a great day in the air for Japan.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 11, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Submarine attack near Donggala at 69,96

Japanese Ships
E No.8
TK Ayayuki Maru, Shell hits 4, on fire
TK Nittetsu Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Pomfret, hits 26, heavy fires, heavy damage

SS Pomfret is sighted by escort
Pomfret diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Oita , at 104,59

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 3

No Allied losses

Light Industry hits 2
Manpower hits 3
Fires 2070

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 7000 feet *
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 18th Army, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 19 NM, estimated altitude 43,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 11
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 10
Ki-84a Frank x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 16
Ki-100-I Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Tank Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 44,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 7
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 10
Ki-84a Frank x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 16
Ki-100-I Tony x 6

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt II x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt II: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 18th Army, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 43,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 1
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 8
Ki-84a Frank x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 14
Ki-100-I Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt I x 14
P-40N5 Warhawk x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt I: 1 destroyed
P-40N5 Warhawk: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 1st Tank Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 21 NM, estimated altitude 46,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 10

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Spitfire VIII sweeping at 41500 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 43rd Chinese Corps, at 70,44 , near Tsuyung

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 28 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-49-IIa Helen x 5
Ki-49-IIb Helen x 53

No Japanese losses

Allied ground losses:
114 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-49-IIb Helen bombing from 5000 feet
Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kushiro at 123,53

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 31
N1K5-J George x 33
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14
Ki-84a Frank x 14
Ki-84r Frank x 39

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 6
F6F-3 Hellcat x 349
F6F-5 Hellcat x 140

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Avenger II: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
F6F-3 Hellcat: 33 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 7 destroyed

Japanese Ships
LST T-137

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Avenger II bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Kushiro at 123,53

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 27
N1K5-J George x 28
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 12
Ki-84a Frank x 12
Ki-84r Frank x 31

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 8
Hellcat I x 7
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 87
F6F-5 Hellcat x 36
TBM-1C Avenger x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84a Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 4 destroyed

Japanese Ships
LST T-133, Bomb hits 1, on fire
LST T-135, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x TBM-1C Avenger bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 1st Tank Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 24 NM, estimated altitude 41,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 14
N1K5-J George x 11
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 7
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 14
Ki-84a Frank x 5
Ki-84b Frank x 16
Ki-84r Frank x 39
Ki-100-I Tony x 5

Allied aircraft
Spitfire VIII x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Spitfire VIII: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 14th Division, at 56,53 , near Pegu

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 11
N1K5-J George x 11
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 7
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 13
Ki-84a Frank x 5
Ki-84b Frank x 14
Ki-84r Frank x 28
Ki-100-I Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 8
B-25J1 Mitchell x 2
P-51B Mustang x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25J1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-51B Mustang: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 12000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kushiro at 123,53

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 34 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 31
N1K5-J George x 31
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 14
Ki-84a Frank x 11
Ki-84r Frank x 36

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 3
Hellcat I x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 345
F6F-5 Hellcat x 80

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 3 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Avenger II: 1 destroyed
Hellcat I: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 16 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 3 destroyed

Japanese Ships
LST T-133, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Avenger II bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kushiro at 123,53

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J2M5 Jack x 24
N1K5-J George x 24
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 8
Ki-84a Frank x 6
Ki-84r Frank x 28

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 8
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 22
F6F-5 Hellcat x 39
TBM-1C Avenger x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
TBM-1C Avenger: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Uruppu-jima (130,52)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 97489 troops, 1541 guns, 1950 vehicles, Assault Value = 2884

Defending force 48178 troops, 336 guns, 120 vehicles, Assault Value = 962

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 3924

Japanese adjusted defense: 3808

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3879 casualties reported
Squads: 38 destroyed, 67 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 64 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 55 disabled
Guns lost 36 (20 destroyed, 16 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3250 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 477 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 68 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 87 disabled
Guns lost 73 (8 destroyed, 65 disabled)
Vehicles lost 89 (7 destroyed, 82 disabled)

Assaulting units:
37th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
5th Australian/A Division
4th USMC Tank Battalion
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
5th Australian/B Division
58th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
3rd Motor Brigade
1st Regiment
6th Infantry Division
I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment
38th Infantry Division
1st Filipino Inf Regiment
713th Flame Tank Battalion
815th Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
43rd Infantry Division
158th(Sep) Infantry Regiment
37th Infantry Division
5th Australian/C Division
4th Field Artillery Battalion
225th Field Artillery Battalion
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
Sixth US Army
259th Coastal Artillery Battalion
XIV US Corps
33rd Medium Regiment
3rd USA Defense Battalion
XIV Corps Artillery
1st Medium Regiment
28th Canadian AA Regiment

Defending units:
5th Garrison Unit
15th Ind. Engineer Regiment
28th Division
302nd Ind.Infantry Battalion
114th Division
48th Ind.Mixed Brigade
4th Amphibious Brigade
Nanking Naval Guard Unit
1st Engr Rgt /1
35th Army
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
100th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
8th Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 7/31/2018 12:17:29 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2187
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/31/2018 12:30:03 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Dec 12, 1944

The Allies try some exploratory B-29 strikes in the night on the 12th. They hit port Arthur for 12 HI destroyed, Utsonomiya for five resources points and miss at Kanazawa. The NF react nicely on Honshu and get int to fight off a few of the beasts. On the day it looks like he lost 3-4 against my 7 NF losses.

The Chinese try again at Paoshan, but this is not going anywhere. They take some heavy disablements for no progress against the forts and very little damage to the IJA force. They have been trying a flank attack in the mountains near Tsuyung, but I saw it in time and have been bombing and moving troops to cover. It looks like he's stopped them now. It would be a river crossing and that wouldn't be good against the division there now.

In a surprise move the Allies send in Le Triomphant all by herself to Balikpapan. She sinks an E, and tomorrow will need to run the gautlet of strike planes to make it out. I'll increase search in the area so this doesn't become a trend.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Dec 12, 1944
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5
B-29-25 Superfort x 10

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 2 damaged

Heavy Industry hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 7000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Utsonomiya , at 115,60

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 61 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 9

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-Sa Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Kanazawa , at 111,57

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 20 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 8

Allied aircraft
B-29-1 Superfort x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
J1N1-Sa Irving: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 4 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-1 Superfort bombing from 10000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Port Arthur , at 99,44

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 10 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 4

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 7000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Utsonomiya , at 115,60

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 42 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 7

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 damaged

Resources hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 7000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Balikpapan at 65,98, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E No.18, Shell hits 12, and is sunk

Allied Ships
DD Le Triomphant

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards
Range closes to 24,000 yards...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Uruppu-jima (130,52)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 4460 troops, 222 guns, 199 vehicles, Assault Value = 2426

Defending force 45470 troops, 322 guns, 120 vehicles, Assault Value = 868

Japanese ground losses:
51 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
5th Australian/B Division
158th(Sep) Infantry Regiment
I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment
37th Infantry Division
815th Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
43rd Infantry Division
3rd Motor Brigade
2nd USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
1st Regiment
1st Filipino Inf Regiment
37th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
671th Tank Destroyer Battalion
4th USMC Tank Battalion
713th Flame Tank Battalion
5th Australian/A Division
6th Infantry Division
58th (Sep) Infantry Regiment
38th Infantry Division
5th Australian/C Division
3rd USA Defense Battalion
Sixth US Army
XIV Corps Artillery
33rd Medium Regiment
225th Field Artillery Battalion
4th Field Artillery Battalion
1st Medium Regiment
11th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
259th Coastal Artillery Battalion
XIV US Corps
28th Canadian AA Regiment

Defending units:
114th Division
Nanking Naval Guard Unit
48th Ind.Mixed Brigade
302nd Ind.Infantry Battalion
15th Ind. Engineer Regiment
4th Amphibious Brigade
28th Division
1st Engr Rgt /1
100th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
35th Army
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
22nd Ind. Engineer Regiment
5th Garrison Unit
8th Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Paoshan (65,45)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 122295 troops, 275 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3982

Defending force 34490 troops, 307 guns, 978 vehicles, Assault Value = 969

Allied adjusted assault: 2495

Japanese adjusted defense: 4612

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 5)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
568 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 26 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 18 (2 destroyed, 16 disabled)
Vehicles lost 52 (2 destroyed, 50 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6730 casualties reported
Squads: 54 destroyed, 514 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 32 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 56 disabled

Assaulting units:
78th Chinese Corps
65th Chinese Corps
9th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
64th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
58th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
68th Chinese Corps
62nd Chinese Corps
66th Chinese Corps Corps
70th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
12th Group Army
5th Group Army
9th Group Army
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment

Defending units:
23rd Tank Regiment
3rd Division
15th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Division
2nd Tank Regiment
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment
23rd Army
2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2188
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/31/2018 10:18:57 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Always keep in mind that the Allied player must achieve an auto victory before 1 September 1945 in order to win the game decisively.  Getting there after 31 August 1945 means the absolute best he can achieve is a marginal victory and that constitutes in reality an "Allied defeat" as the Allied performance is far below par when assessed in historical terms.

Alfred



Alfred I'm disappointed.

We all know fully well nothing about a "game" wherein one side is artificially enhanced to 'make it viable to play" can be fairly compared to historical outcomes.

A marginal victory in the 'game' is a victory plain and simply.

The Japanese player can rightly thump his chest for his performance in holding the Allies to a mere marginal Victory, but he simply cannot claim a "win" unless the Allied side does indeed "lose" the game.

Who knows, maybe Dan won't even manage a marginal victory......then all the debate over nuance would be moot.



Hold the phone guys, I agree with Hans on a post he made that references victory points/conditions and historical results.

Excuse me while I go check to see if the world is ending, or hell has frozen over, or something similar.


As for whether Dan can achieve a marginal victory... he's in the Kuriles and Sakhalin in late-44. I will be some degree of shocked if he does not end up gaining enough strategic bombing points to achieve a marginal victory before the clock runs out 13-some months from now.

13 months.

(in reply to HansBolter)
Post #: 2189
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 7/31/2018 10:33:34 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		And the mic drops ladies and gents....


I don't really think Dan won't get a marginal victory I tossed that out as a consolation given my expectations that what preceded it would be at least mildly offensive to the JFBs.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 2190
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