RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/30/2019 2:58:25 PM

Lecivius

Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Is this the big one?

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2731

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/30/2019 4:41:35 PM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

April 23, 1945

In other news the Allies sweep Sendai with P-47N flying up high. I would have thought they'd have their way here, but I've set my normal low CAP and it seems the low detection time of 3 minutes may have actually helped the CAP in this situation. It looks like few planes were up when the raid was detected, but by the time the sweepers had dived to low levels, they met a big low layered CAP in the low bands. A lot of planes scrambled and the" intercepting now" message for each group had about half of each group up and intercepting.

What if...if you were setting some of your fighter groups in "training" mission?

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2732

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/30/2019 9:14:19 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

April 23, 1945

In other news the Allies sweep Sendai with P-47N flying up high. I would have thought they'd have their way here, but I've set my normal low CAP and it seems the low detection time of 3 minutes may have actually helped the CAP in this situation. It looks like few planes were up when the raid was detected, but by the time the sweepers had dived to low levels, they met a big low layered CAP in the low bands. A lot of planes scrambled and the" intercepting now" message for each group had about half of each group up and intercepting.

What if...if you were setting some of your fighter groups in "training" mission?

Not sure what you are getting at?

Why would I do that?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 2733

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/30/2019 9:18:19 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Something is about to happen. I noticed some ships moving in the Kuriles area last turn.

Don't forget to use all your tools here. MTBs, Midgets are valuable in running into and out of the invasion hex (although midgets might be a VP loser). If you have enough reserves on trains, you may easily bottle up the invasion beach especially with level 6 forts or so. Minefields and CD guns are always a VP winner for a bit, especially for a bottled up invasion hex.

When given lots of ground units to target the naval bombardments will focus on large divisions & cd units first, and normally never target the armor units.

Where do you have the Wake CD gun unit?

A tricky thought is to LRCAP the invasion hex at night, and hope to shoot down the spotting aircraft.

Some Jills on night naval attack, restricted to the invasion hex, can lessen bombardment damage too.

Is this the big one?

With respect to the P47...sometimes you just get a good roll. But better tactics always helps!

I'm not sure yet this will even go to Honshu. If it does, I agree. All big CD gun units are there now and in strat mode, one of the three tank divisions, several good experienced divisions and a ton of big arty. forts at all critical bases in the clear are either at 8-9 or nearing level 8.

I haven't mined anything in a while. Very few ships left to do it effectively, and hard to predict where to put them. Not many midgets or MTBs left either.

this turn I'll try some distant night and day attacks as the spawn moves along. Usually CR is more condensed in his approach.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2734

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/31/2019 6:15:45 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

April 23, 1945

In other news the Allies sweep Sendai with P-47N flying up high. I would have thought they'd have their way here, but I've set my normal low CAP and it seems the low detection time of 3 minutes may have actually helped the CAP in this situation. It looks like few planes were up when the raid was detected, but by the time the sweepers had dived to low levels, they met a big low layered CAP in the low bands. A lot of planes scrambled and the" intercepting now" message for each group had about half of each group up and intercepting.

What if...if you were setting some of your fighter groups in "training" mission?

Not sure what you are getting at?

Why would I do that?

To raise the possibility to Avoid engagement with fighters

And the possibility to engage unescorted bombers?

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2735

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/31/2019 9:00:26 AM

tarkalak

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/26/2017
From: Bulgaria
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

April 23, 1945

In other news the Allies sweep Sendai with P-47N flying up high. I would have thought they'd have their way here, but I've set my normal low CAP and it seems the low detection time of 3 minutes may have actually helped the CAP in this situation. It looks like few planes were up when the raid was detected, but by the time the sweepers had dived to low levels, they met a big low layered CAP in the low bands. A lot of planes scrambled and the" intercepting now" message for each group had about half of each group up and intercepting.

What if...if you were setting some of your fighter groups in "training" mission?

Not sure what you are getting at?

Why would I do that?

To raise the possibility to Avoid engagement with fighters

And the possibility to engage unescorted bombers?

Fighter in training will act as CAP if their base is attacked. Not sure at what penalty though.

_____________________________

I do not know what is scarier: that I do understand nothing of this demonic script or that I am starting to see the demons that it evokes.

Me, studying for a PHD entry exam in Applied Mathematics.

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 2736

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/31/2019 11:00:34 AM

adarbrauner

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
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Not always. They often avoid

(in reply to tarkalak)

Post #: 2737

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/31/2019 2:00:11 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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Wargamr did this to me Luzon, put the warhawks on training missions. They avoided all sweeps, but intercepted bombing missions. Didn't really matter, the P40 pilots were poor and the escorting Zeroes (or LRCAP) ate them alive.

There may very well be a penalty for doing this.

This happened over several days.

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 2738

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/31/2019 2:09:43 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

April 23, 1945

In other news the Allies sweep Sendai with P-47N flying up high. I would have thought they'd have their way here, but I've set my normal low CAP and it seems the low detection time of 3 minutes may have actually helped the CAP in this situation. It looks like few planes were up when the raid was detected, but by the time the sweepers had dived to low levels, they met a big low layered CAP in the low bands. A lot of planes scrambled and the" intercepting now" message for each group had about half of each group up and intercepting.

What if...if you were setting some of your fighter groups in "training" mission?

Not sure what you are getting at?

Why would I do that?

To raise the possibility to Avoid engagement with fighters

And the possibility to engage unescorted bombers?

I think you're missing the point of my last post.

I WANT to engage his fighters. If I down the fighters, he'll have less success bombing. Also, the training "CAP" has a chance to intercept but won't do it as effectively as fighters on CAP.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to adarbrauner)

Post #: 2739

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/31/2019 2:22:42 PM

tarkalak

Posts: 289
Joined: 6/26/2017
From: Bulgaria
Status: offline

Another day, another new thing learned.

_____________________________

I do not know what is scarier: that I do understand nothing of this demonic script or that I am starting to see the demons that it evokes.

Me, studying for a PHD entry exam in Applied Mathematics.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2740

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 1/31/2019 2:44:02 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Wargamr did this to me Luzon, put the warhawks on training missions. They avoided all sweeps, but intercepted bombing missions. Didn't really matter, the P40 pilots were poor and the escorting Zeroes (or LRCAP) ate them alive.

There may very well be a penalty for doing this.

This happened over several days.

In late war it might be the same, as the P-47/P-51 escorts are good in that role, and the 4Es don't really need a lot of help to get through.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2741

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/1/2019 3:49:48 AM

Capt. Harlock

Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

the 4Es don't really need a lot of help to get through.

I think they do in this game. Your Japanese air arm is a lot stronger than it was historically.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2742

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/1/2019 8:43:15 AM

obvert

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Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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April 24, 1945

It looks like this is the real deal. The mass of ships off of Honshu fleshes out a bit and moves slowly to the SW. Tension builds.

The Allies look to be pulling out all the stops now. Subs surge forward in numbers into the ASW kill zones and transit paths from the SRA. A few are reported damaged and the Caiman attacks a large resources TF with on success.

In Burma there are major sweeps over our main army hex now, but no bombing runs.

I've made the decision Mind_messing was advocating for a few pages back. I've decided to pull back all Burma Army troops to China and Malaya ASAP. A smaller force will occupy Singers and a yet to be determined defensive delay line. The majority of troops will rail to Pnom Pen and walk to Saigon, then rail to the China border and walk over. If this big TF is heading deep I can't risk getting this army caught defending a hex in the hills of Thailand. I'll get em back and hope for the best.

So where are the Allies heading? Here are my guesses.

2:1 - Okinawa
3:1 - Formosa
4:1 - PI
5:1 - Chinese coastline
7:1 - Korean West Coast
10:1 - Iwo/Chichi Jima

What do you think?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 24, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near San Fernando at 78,73

Japanese Ships
PB Toshi Maru #8
PB Tamozono Maru #1
PB Tama Maru #5
xAK Toei Maru
xAK Tosei Maru
xAK Sanuki Maru
xAK Miyadono Maru
xAK Macassar Maru
xAK Konan Maru
xAK Hokko Maru
xAK Ehime Maru
xAK Kurohime Maru
xAK Seizan Maru
xAK Hokuzyu Maru
xAK Unyo Maru
xAK Ryuzan Maru
xAK Kenzan Maru
xAK Taian Maru
xAK Hohuku Maru
xAK India Maru
xAK Brasil Maru
xAK Belgium Maru
E No.144
E No.138

Allied Ships
SS Caiman, hits 8

SS Caiman launches 6 torpedoes at PB Toshi Maru #8

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 7 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)

Post #: 2743

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/1/2019 10:44:38 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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April 25, 1945

Ok. So another day reveals a bit more of this armada. i'd thought maybe, just maybe, it was spread enough to allow some distant strikes to pick at the edges. Looks now like the CVs are travelling with the main amphbis and SCTFs. The edges groups look to be ASW and refuelling and other patrols. I'll still try some distant surprise hits from places like Marcus Island. Just to be annoying. I also saw the comments about night strikes with the G3M3 in another AAR and I will try some of those with Frances and Peggy (T) mostly. Night kamis could be fun too.

Action on the day consists of almost exclusively sub strikes deep into the shipping lanes. The Allies hit and sink one AV, an xAK and an SC. In return we most likely sink two and cripple one sub with several also hit by air ASW. I will flood these zones with good ASW air now and increase surface patrols with E class and SC. If I can keep the VP ratio about even this won't hurt so much, but the lost fuel/resources will be missed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 25, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASW attack near Busuanga at 77,79

Japanese Ships
E W-27
AV Kimikawa Maru
TK Asashio Maru
TK Otowasan Maru
TK Kaizyo Maru
E Kamome
E W-33

Allied Ships
SS Lizardfish

SS Lizardfish launches 6 torpedoes at E W-27

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Dadjangas at 78,94

Japanese Ships
SC Ch 39
TK Oita Maru
TK Koho Maru
TK Syoyo Maru
TK San Luis Maru
TK Ogura Maru #2
TK Kiyo Maru
PB Tokati Maru
PB Teimei Maru
PB Sensan Maru

Allied Ships
SS Bullhead

SS Bullhead is sighted by escort

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Tourane at 67,67

Japanese Ships
E No.60, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
PB Sozan Maru
xAK Wales Maru
xAK Maebasi Maru
E No.207

Allied Ships
SS Sea Devil, hits 10, heavy damage

SS Sea Devil launches 6 torpedoes at E No.60

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Puerto Princesa at 74,83

Japanese Ships
AV Kunikawa Maru, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
E Kurahashi
E Mutsure
TK Tatekawa Maru
TK Nissyo Maru

Allied Ships
SS Gunnel, hits 40, heavy damage

SS Gunnel launches 6 torpedoes at AV Kunikawa Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Quinhon at 67,68

Japanese Ships
xAK Toyama Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Wales Maru
xAK Maebasi Maru
E No.207

Allied Ships
SS Lancetfish, hits 19, heavy damage

SS Lancetfish launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Toyama Maru
Lancetfish diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Busuanga at 77,79

Japanese Ships
SC CHa-19, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
TK Shoyo Maru
TK Nikkoku Maru
SC CHa-23

Allied Ships
SS Lizardfish

SS Lizardfish launches 6 torpedoes at SC CHa-19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few subs here!!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2744

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/1/2019 10:46:59 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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A look at Shikuka also shows the port has been emptied out. There will be 500-800 ships transiting South of Japan right now. It feels like he's now conserving airframes and not striking until this op is at it's destination. Anything that slows strat bombing is good, but I know this move, seemingly now deep into Japanese territory, will change the nature of the game again.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2745

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/1/2019 4:00:44 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

2:1 - Okinawa
3:1 - Formosa
4:1 - PI
5:1 - Chinese coastline
7:1 - Korean West Coast
10:1 - Iwo/Chichi Jima

What do you think?

What no Honshu?

My best guess, going on CRs pattern from his game with John, he will sail along looking for opportunity to invade somewhere. I remember his sailing up the coast of China, taking his time, until he found an appropriate spot. Which means he preps for multiple non railroad hexes, or hexes he can isolate from the rail system.

Now instead of China there are a ton of Japanese Islands to pick from...although, I feel he should just pick an island close to an open ground invasion beach on Honshu, and land at both. I think he needs to be on Honshu with armor, pounding your ground troops with relentless naval bombardments.

Normally, I would think he might be looking to cut off trade to the western Empire, but the game is so late, he needs to be destroying you on Honshu.

Remember he can land off base too!

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2746

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/1/2019 11:38:09 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

2:1 - Okinawa
3:1 - Formosa
4:1 - PI
5:1 - Chinese coastline
7:1 - Korean West Coast
10:1 - Iwo/Chichi Jima

What do you think?

What no Honshu?

My best guess, going on CRs pattern from his game with John, he will sail along looking for opportunity to invade somewhere. I remember his sailing up the coast of China, taking his time, until he found an appropriate spot. Which means he preps for multiple non railroad hexes, or hexes he can isolate from the rail system.

Now instead of China there are a ton of Japanese Islands to pick from...although, I feel he should just pick an island close to an open ground invasion beach on Honshu, and land at both. I think he needs to be on Honshu with armor, pounding your ground troops with relentless naval bombardments.

Normally, I would think he might be looking to cut off trade to the western Empire, but the game is so late, he needs to be destroying you on Honshu.

Remember he can land off base too!

If he were landing on Honshu why not in range of his bases on Hokkaido? It doesn't make sense he'd drive farther to get out of LBA range.

I'll add another odds option.

6:1 - Kyushu

This is possible, but still would be odd considering terrain is tougher and there are still a lot of air bases and it's on the rail network. The only reason this makes some sense is to cut off transport from the SRA.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2747

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/1/2019 11:57:51 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

I also saw the comments about night strikes with the G3M3 in another AAR and I will try some of those with Frances and Peggy (T) mostly.

I'd prioritize the Frances for the night operations if you can. The H-6 radar on the Frances should help significantly.

However, the more the better with night ops at this stage. In an ideal world you can get him to expend large quantities of his shipboard AA ammo. The Allies can replenish underway, but nine hexes off the coast of Japan is a bold move.

Also, throw ships in the way. It doesn't matter what it is. Merchants, patrol boats, sub chasers, E-class PT boats, literally everything that floats. Single ship TF's out to his north, west, south and east. Make a sea of red task forces surrounding islands of green. It doesn't matter that they're merchantmen armed with a single 8cm gun and some AA.

Have heavy LRCAP over a couple of select ships (preferably destroyers) to wear away his CV aircraft.

It will cause absolute chaos. You'll run in to dedicated surface combat groups and have your ships sunk, but you'll waste their ammo and ops points.

You'll run in to CV task forces, and you get a look at his composition, and waste their ammo and ops.

You'll run in to amphib TF's, and they'll wet the bed and run for home. Depending on how many ships there are, you'll probably cause a few Allied ships to bounce off each other.

You'll have ships sunk by the bucket by CV aircraft, but they'll use up limited bombs and torps. They'll run in to your dense LRCAP over random task forces and get slaughtered.

Amongst all of this, have what little is left of the IJN run around like wolves amongst the sheep. Split them into two groups, close and distant. The close group dash out from Honshu bases and hope for a tasty feast by slipping through the escorting screens then run for home before daylight. Aggression in the 50's to keep them from fighting outwith their means. The distant group operates to the far east of the US force, they've the job of snacking on ships that run for home. CR won't like that, so he'll no doubt detach something to go chase them, and you've weakened him to little risk.

It's the strategic version of throwing marbles at the feet of an armoured knight - you won't get through the armour, but you'll make charging you uncomfortable.

Rooting for you Obvert, this is your chance to win!

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2748

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/2/2019 1:50:51 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

I also saw the comments about night strikes with the G3M3 in another AAR and I will try some of those with Frances and Peggy (T) mostly.

I'd prioritize the Frances for the night operations if you can. The H-6 radar on the Frances should help significantly.

However, the more the better with night ops at this stage. In an ideal world you can get him to expend large quantities of his shipboard AA ammo. The Allies can replenish underway, but nine hexes off the coast of Japan is a bold move.

Also, throw ships in the way. It doesn't matter what it is. Merchants, patrol boats, sub chasers, E-class PT boats, literally everything that floats. Single ship TF's out to his north, west, south and east. Make a sea of red task forces surrounding islands of green. It doesn't matter that they're merchantmen armed with a single 8cm gun and some AA.

Have heavy LRCAP over a couple of select ships (preferably destroyers) to wear away his CV aircraft.

It will cause absolute chaos. You'll run in to dedicated surface combat groups and have your ships sunk, but you'll waste their ammo and ops points.

You'll run in to CV task forces, and you get a look at his composition, and waste their ammo and ops.

You'll run in to amphib TF's, and they'll wet the bed and run for home. Depending on how many ships there are, you'll probably cause a few Allied ships to bounce off each other.

You'll have ships sunk by the bucket by CV aircraft, but they'll use up limited bombs and torps. They'll run in to your dense LRCAP over random task forces and get slaughtered.

Amongst all of this, have what little is left of the IJN run around like wolves amongst the sheep. Split them into two groups, close and distant. The close group dash out from Honshu bases and hope for a tasty feast by slipping through the escorting screens then run for home before daylight. Aggression in the 50's to keep them from fighting outwith their means. The distant group operates to the far east of the US force, they've the job of snacking on ships that run for home. CR won't like that, so he'll no doubt detach something to go chase them, and you've weakened him to little risk.

It's the strategic version of throwing marbles at the feet of an armoured knight - you won't get through the armour, but you'll make charging you uncomfortable.

Rooting for you Obvert, this is your chance to win!

Thanks. I do feel there are some things that must be tried against this ponderous kind of Allied movement, with hundreds of ships occupying the same hex slowly transiting the oceans.

I've been considering what to do if they get close, but it appears this mob is extending their distance from the Home Islands as they approach the Bonins. Is that the (first) destination?

So I'll get some things in order and hopefully have a chance to try something. The KB is trying not to get picked off by subs currently and heading up toward Formosa.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 2749

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/2/2019 3:23:36 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

2:1 - Okinawa
3:1 - Formosa
4:1 - PI
5:1 - Chinese coastline
7:1 - Korean West Coast
10:1 - Iwo/Chichi Jima

What do you think?

What no Honshu?

My best guess, going on CRs pattern from his game with John, he will sail along looking for opportunity to invade somewhere. I remember his sailing up the coast of China, taking his time, until he found an appropriate spot. Which means he preps for multiple non railroad hexes, or hexes he can isolate from the rail system.

Now instead of China there are a ton of Japanese Islands to pick from...although, I feel he should just pick an island close to an open ground invasion beach on Honshu, and land at both. I think he needs to be on Honshu with armor, pounding your ground troops with relentless naval bombardments.

Normally, I would think he might be looking to cut off trade to the western Empire, but the game is so late, he needs to be destroying you on Honshu.

Remember he can land off base too!

If he were landing on Honshu why not in range of his bases on Hokkaido? It doesn't make sense he'd drive farther to get out of LBA range.

I'll add another odds option.

6:1 - Kyushu

This is possible, but still would be odd considering terrain is tougher and there are still a lot of air bases and it's on the rail network. The only reason this makes some sense is to cut off transport from the SRA.

Heck, I have no clue. I can almost never understand what the Allies are up to.

I guess by now the Allies have surface resupply, and CVE resupply for planes for a certainty.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2750

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/2/2019 4:45:25 PM

Capt. Harlock

Posts: 5358
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline

quote:

I guess by now the Allies have surface resupply, and CVE resupply for planes for a certainty.

That's the issue with throwing ships at the incoming armada: at this point in the game, the USN can resupply planes, ammo, and fuel at sea. There's a good chance he'll still have enough left in the tank by the time he gets to wherever the heck he's going.

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2751

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/3/2019 8:05:36 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

April 26, 1945

Another day of slow movement transiting South of Japan.

Fewer sub attacks on the day. The Allies do try o inhibit transport between Hokkaido and Honshu again. They send three older DDs in. They do sink four LSTs, but then Jills sortie and put a fish in the Van Ghent.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 26, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Hakodate at 119,53, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
LST T-141, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST T-146
SC Ch 61, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer
DD Van Ghent, Shell hits 1

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Clark Field at 75,76

Japanese Ships
xAK Konan Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
xAK Daihachikyo Maru
xAK Kinryu Maru
xAK Oridono Maru
xAK Kaimei Maru
xAK Noshima
PB Shuko Maru #2

Allied Ships
SS Tigrone

SS Tigrone launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Konan Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Hakodate at 119,53, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
LST T-148, Shell hits 8, heavy fires, heavy damage
LST T-152, Shell hits 1, on fire
LST T-154, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer
DD Van Ghent

Improved night sighting under 100% moonlight

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Ominato at 121,54

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2a Jill x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2a Jill: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Van Ghent, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Evertsen
DD Kortenaer

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

Massive explosion on DD Van Ghent
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)

Post #: 2752

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/3/2019 2:35:32 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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A trip around Honshu!

Who knows what the Allies are up to? Do troops loaded on Allied ships not suffer disruption each day?

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2753

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/3/2019 5:27:17 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

A trip around Honshu!

Who knows what the Allies are up to? Do troops loaded on Allied ships not suffer disruption each day?

They do, but it's relatively small. Also, unless unloading at an atoll it doesn't really matter.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2754

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/3/2019 7:14:30 PM

adarbrauner

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From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline

The are all on APAs or LSI. Disruption is minimal

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 2755

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/4/2019 12:44:24 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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Obvert,

Can you check your kamikazes and see which frames carry the SAP or AP bomb load?

Will a torpedo bomber on kamikaze use the 250gp or the 250sap? If a normal torpedo bomber carries the gp, what would the Grace carry as a kamikaze?

I am guessing any bomb load 60kg and smaller uses a gp as in stock there is no SAP at those levels.

Is the switch to SAP or AP automatic for naval and kamikaze strikes, or is it somehow restricted by plane. I can't tell.

I know the 800kg is a hardcoded variable replacement for the torpedo on port strikes.

Is there a random chance there is no SAP available?

(in reply to Lecivius)

Post #: 2756

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/4/2019 2:02:41 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Obvert,

Can you check your kamikazes and see which frames carry the SAP or AP bomb load?

Will a torpedo bomber on kamikaze use the 250gp or the 250sap? If a normal torpedo bomber carries the gp, what would the Grace carry as a kamikaze?

I am guessing any bomb load 60kg and smaller uses a gp as in stock there is no SAP at those levels.

Is the switch to SAP or AP automatic for naval and kamikaze strikes, or is it somehow restricted by plane. I can't tell.

I know the 800kg is a hardcoded variable replacement for the torpedo on port strikes.

Is there a random chance there is no SAP available?

From Alfred's hints at kami "bomb loads" earlier I don't think it matters. I think now that kamis hit and have a standard damage by plane type. So the kati-designed planes might have a higher damage than earlier DBs, and any 2E bomber has the same damage base to be modified by rolls.

I don't think kamis get granular with bomb size let alone bomb type.

One indication of this would be some players mentioning how good their recon Judys are as kamis. No bomb, but still a boom.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2757

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/4/2019 3:04:01 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

What got me thinking along these lines...I was pondering which Japanese aircraft carry the SAP or AP on naval strikes?

But for the life of me I can't figure it out from either the editor or screen pictures or tracker.

However, if you check in air frame detail screen it will list the AP and SAP as the bomb load for kamikazes set to kamikaze. It won't list it for bombers set to naval strike though.

In my one game I got to kamikazes, my myojo were pretty darn devastating but as I recall they used 800kg GP bombs. However, if some models use the the SAP or AP I think it does matter because the penetration values are so much higher.

Edit: I went back and checked some of my old, stock, kamikaze attacks. Myojo, Helen, Vals carried GP bombs, the Kate carried two SAP bombs however. Not nearly enough data to form any kind of conclusion.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/4/2019 3:17:54 PM >

(in reply to Lecivius)

Post #: 2758

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/4/2019 3:25:13 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

April 27, 1945

Some interesting developments. The passage of the mass of ships continues slowly West. It's not heading South, but is right next to the Bonins. Will these be target number one?

The only action today were a few small naval strikes. The Jills up North fell victim to a CAP trap around Kushiro.

Some Norms from Marcus sortied at about 12 hexes and sank two small landing craft. I'll keep pecking for now, but won't try anything big yet. No night strikes flew.

The most interesting part of the turn took place in the recon phase. A lot of targets were suddenly lit up. They ranged from the Indochinese coastline to the middle and Northern Chinese coasts, down the Western Korea coast and some spots on Formosa. A few islands South of Tokyo were also reconned.

I now am leaning to a landing in China and or Korea. I will act as if this is happening until I know otherwise. I'll also continue to add troops to the Ryukyus and Amami Oshima as long as I can, since these are always useful for the Allies late. Right now the Naha/Naga Okinawa bases have about 1,600AV. Amami has about 600AV. Each of the little islands off of the coast of Kyushu has a naval guard or regiment and some forts, but I'll aim to add some more units there as well. The trouble is, whatever he wants he can have if he has dedicated troops as if I would defend well. So I can only hoe he's gone cheap and assumed I wouldn't have it all covered. (I don't, and can't, but need to get a bit lucky about where the first landings are here).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR April 27, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Wakkanai at 122,48

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 42 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2a Jill x 26

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2a Jill: 11 destroyed, 4 damaged

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LCT-320
LCT-180
LCT-322

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Chichi-jima at 118,73

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E15K1 Norm x 5

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 52

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Allied Ships
LCI(M)-802, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
LSM-132, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x E15K1 Norm bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There are so many bases with little chance of defence along the Korean Western coastline. Fewer, but just as hard on the opposite Chinese coast. I think the DS will drive through the East China Sea and hit both sides up here. Time to get ready.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2759

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/4/2019 3:28:02 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

What got me thinking along these lines...I was pondering which Japanese aircraft carry the SAP or AP on naval strikes?

But for the life of me I can't figure it out from either the editor or screen pictures or tracker.

However, if you check in air frame detail screen it will list the AP and SAP as the bomb load for kamikazes set to kamikaze. It won't list it for bombers set to naval strike though.

In my one game I got to kamikazes, my myojo were pretty darn devastating but as I recall they used 800kg GP bombs. However, if some models use the the SAP or AP I think it does matter because the penetration values are so much higher.

Edit: I went back and checked some of my old, stock, kamikaze attacks. Myojo, Helen, Vals carried GP bombs, the Kate carried two SAP bombs however. Not nearly enough data to form any kind of conclusion.

It's interesting, and I've never tested kamis. It would be fun to try when I'm not playing three games!!

I could use the info now, and wish there was slightly more transparency about things like this since they are an optional player choice in some cases (bombs vs torps, getting 800kg on port strikes, getting 1,000 lb bombs with more experienced pilots for the Allies, etc)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2760

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