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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:20:17 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Here is the butchers bill. At least I have deep Judy and Grace pools. The Sams will take some team to replace.




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_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:33:16 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		The points shift a bit more toward the inevitable end. There are still a lot of battles to go though, and the land war is next. Where will the DS end up here?




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_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 2882
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:58:22 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		Reorganize the KB, send ships short back to port, but send the rest and hit the shipping near Okinawa. Dollars to donuts he diverts AKEs there now thinking the threat from the KB is gone.

Tough, tough luck hitting a 2000 plane cap so fragmented and in the afternoon with severed storms to boot.

Ningpo is my first guess now, but is he bold enough to go upriver. Quite frankly that would be a little cheesy given how the game mechanic works.

This jig to Ningpo/Shanghai took me totally by surprise! I can never predict any invasion beach.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/12/2019 9:00:07 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2883
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 9:20:48 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		If it is in fact China he is going for, I think he's going to struggle to get the needed VPs. It's just a slow theatre, even for Allied tank units zipping around.

I know i've banged on and on about it before, but now is the time to get the little interdicting ships in amongst his fleet. Your air assets are in position, time to sow discord and throw sand in the cogs. His mailed fist is well and truely in the maw now - time to bite it off.

Record daily air losses for me is something like 2.1k. You've a bit to go to beat that yet.

I see you're min-maxing on altitudes, which is great. You'll get a lucky break, you just need to persevere.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2884
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 1:18:43 AM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline 		2.1k losses in a day...ouch. Assuming 35-40K for the entire game, that is a bad day. Or good, if it did a lot of damage, but somehow I don't think it did.

Lets hope Obvert sees thru his disappointment, and slogs thru the turn reorganizing all those squadrons, and still wants to deliver some damage to that Juggernaut. But I am not sure with what...

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 10:55:59 AM   
adarbrauner

 

Posts: 1496
Joined: 11/3/2016
From: Zichron Yaaqov, Israel; Before, Treviso, Italy
Status: offline 		Why not to hit at Kushiro and the North meanwhile

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 2/13/2019 10:56:44 AM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 11:30:19 AM   
GetAssista

 

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Status: offline 		Were there any examples of massed air strike against healthy DS that netted positive vps?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 1:57:51 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

Were there any examples of massed air strike against healthy DS that netted positive vps?


Obvert has done the best that I know of but was it positive vp? Can't remember in this game.

In his game versus Jocke, he savaged a CVE's fleet but the amphib landing at Moppo happened. Pretty sure that one was positive VP.

Back before, when the massive air bug existed & coordination was easier, Radar sank all of Greyjoy's carriers.

Every JFB dreads the turn Obvert has to do now, with all those air groups...its like work.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/13/2019 1:58:25 PM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 2:48:29 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Every JFB dreads the turn Obvert has to do now, with all those air groups...its like work.



It's downright scary.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2889
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 5:48:53 PM   
obvert


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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Reorganize the KB, send ships short back to port, but send the rest and hit the shipping near Okinawa. Dollars to donuts he diverts AKEs there now thinking the threat from the KB is gone.

Tough, tough luck hitting a 2000 plane cap so fragmented and in the afternoon with severed storms to boot.

Ningpo is my first guess now, but is he bold enough to go upriver. Quite frankly that would be a little cheesy given how the game mechanic works.

This jig to Ningpo/Shanghai took me totally by surprise! I can never predict any invasion beach.




I opted to keep KB out of port, as it's completely intact, and refilled fighter groups. I've moved it next to more LR CAP as well. I want to keep it as a threat, but hoefully out of danger.

I have a feeling Ningpo could be one stop, but maybe not the final stop. It's so open farther North, and he doesn't know what I can rail in toward Singers to support. I'd guess some on both sides, some in Korea/Manchuria and some in Northern China. We'll see.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 5:51:45 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

If it is in fact China he is going for, I think he's going to struggle to get the needed VPs. It's just a slow theatre, even for Allied tank units zipping around.

I know i've banged on and on about it before, but now is the time to get the little interdicting ships in amongst his fleet. Your air assets are in position, time to sow discord and throw sand in the cogs. His mailed fist is well and truely in the maw now - time to bite it off.

Record daily air losses for me is something like 2.1k. You've a bit to go to beat that yet.

I see you're min-maxing on altitudes, which is great. You'll get a lucky break, you just need to persevere.


I was in position to get ships in his way the next day, but I can't risk another try immediately after. The IJN is only really three surface TFs. now. The rest would have to be merchies and escorts, and to get them in range I need a day to move close. That's the rub.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/13/2019 6:55:24 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Why not to hit at Kushiro and the North meanwhile


There is nothing to hit except 75k Allied troops in x3 terrain with probably 6-7 forts by now. They ship has sailed.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 1:24:33 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Jack does well as a point defense interceptor, and has different characteristics in countering enemy sweeps. ...
It is better than George for some defensive tasks, whereas the George is better for offensive -- generally speaking.



+1

IIRC correctly it has better climb rate.

_____________________________

Pax

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 2:11:14 AM   
PaxMondo


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Status: offline 		To crack a 2000 plane CAP, you need 4000 fighters escorting ~200 bombers. 4000 fighters => ~110 groups … IJN doesn't have that many, maybe half.


As Eric observed, looks like a fighter heavy DS just to kill his airforce. Until he is in LBA range, there is no air attack that can succeed. Even with LBA, 4000 fighters (1st line, N1K1, A7M, Ki-84) not sure that many exist.

Think we need to look at other options. He has no, or very few bombers. MM suggests: lots of little fleets ... every PB, SC, E, PT, MTB, etc ... and mines ... Maybe?

He doesn't have bombers so naval bombardment is what he is counting on. What about having your SCTF's (whatever is left) ready to hit him AFTER the bombardment before he can replenish?

Don't know ... always tough choices at this point ...




_____________________________

Pax

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 7:59:42 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

To crack a 2000 plane CAP, you need 4000 fighters escorting ~200 bombers. 4000 fighters => ~110 groups … IJN doesn't have that many, maybe half.


As Eric observed, looks like a fighter heavy DS just to kill his airforce. Until he is in LBA range, there is no air attack that can succeed. Even with LBA, 4000 fighters (1st line, N1K1, A7M, Ki-84) not sure that many exist.

Think we need to look at other options. He has no, or very few bombers. MM suggests: lots of little fleets ... every PB, SC, E, PT, MTB, etc ... and mines ... Maybe?

He doesn't have bombers so naval bombardment is what he is counting on. What about having your SCTF's (whatever is left) ready to hit him AFTER the bombardment before he can replenish?

Don't know ... always tough choices at this point ...


This is a great idea and something I've tried to prepare for. He needs a replenishing port and home base at some point soon, and if I can force some combat things might go astray from the big packed mob.

It looks like he's going into the deep North China Sea up near Korea, possibly. That presents some opportunities, but again, this is most likely the entire USN in mid-45. That's like 20 DD TFs, 10 CA/CL TFs, 5 BB TFs, and zillions of DE as well as all of the transports and landing craft that will get in the way. Any move is to break something apart and send some back to a home base listed in the Kuriles. It won't be to win a battle, and thus has to be coordinated to get some VPs out of the mess that could ensue while not losing 1,000 VPs myself.

This turn I'm sending in the CAs to bombard Kume, just taken next to Okinawa, in order to retard any port growth and hit any unloading ships there as well. Secondarily, the CAs will base to Naha t lure any strikes turned on after the devastation last turn. He could try turing on what he has (probably 300 DB/TB on the DS) thinking I'll pull everything back. We'll see.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 8:02:00 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Jack does well as a point defense interceptor, and has different characteristics in countering enemy sweeps. ...
It is better than George for some defensive tasks, whereas the George is better for offensive -- generally speaking.



+1

IIRC correctly it has better climb rate.


There is also a difference in manoeuvre bands for the 5 version of each, and max altitude. Each is useful.

I find the Jack does come up in numbers quickly, and I use it at 7k in the low CAP. Georges go to 9k to dive, since the N1K5 has extra guns too. It is also a surprisingly good sweeper.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 8:04:37 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Every JFB dreads the turn Obvert has to do now, with all those air groups...its like work.



It's downright scary.


I didn't do all of it, and some groups aren't ready to take replacements this turn, so I will wait. Some will just upgrade or downgrade until more Same are available.

It's not as bad as it looks, actually. About 1/3 of the KB strike planes didn't fly, and about 80 escorts also stayed behind. Could have been a different day, but good commanders, highly aggressive group leadrs and rested groups still didn't produce the strike I'm used to getting.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 8:48:59 AM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
To crack a 2000 plane CAP, you need 4000 fighters escorting ~200 bombers. 4000 fighters => ~110 groups … IJN doesn't have that many, maybe half.

I'm thinking LBA is there mostly to wear down the DS CAP not to penetrate it. If luck and weather are on your side, many (and a mean many) smaller LBA strikes on different altitudes will sacrifice themselves for the DS CAP fuel and ammo expenditure. And then KB strike usually comes last in the sequence meeting considerably weaker CAP. So it is not only the number of planes that matters. You actually want to have less coordination for your LBA in a sense, more airfields, more dispersed airgroups.

Then of course weather closes down half the fields, commanders chicken out, and you fly into the disaster. But well, 45 is a continuous disaster anyway

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 2/14/2019 9:46:53 AM >

(in reply to PaxMondo)
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 9:49:11 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
To crack a 2000 plane CAP, you need 4000 fighters escorting ~200 bombers. 4000 fighters => ~110 groups … IJN doesn't have that many, maybe half.

I'm thinking LBA is there mostly to wear down the DS CAP not to penetrate it. If luck and weather are on your side, many (and a mean many) smaller LBA strikes on different altitudes will sacrifice themselves for the DS CAP fuel and ammo expenditure. And then KB strike usually comes last in the sequence meeting considerably weaker CAP. So it is not only the number of planes that matters. You actually want to have less coordination for your LBA in a sense, more airfields, more dispersed airgroups.

Then of course weather closes down half the fields, commanders chicken out, and you fly into the disaster. But well, 45 is a continuous disaster anyway


This is essentially a description of the intent and the result of the last turn. About 400 LBA strike planes did not fly, and the KB was fragmented into two strikes. In addition no strikes targeted the closer out of position CV TF.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 11:26:16 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Why not to hit at Kushiro and the North meanwhile


There is nothing to hit except 75k Allied troops in x3 terrain with probably 6-7 forts by now. They ship has sailed.

Does it sound like a good training and firing ground for bombers crews and - possibly - for the big siege guns -provided you can sustain the ammunition ependiture ? Does he keep any air there?

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2900
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 11:30:27 AM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Why not to hit at Kushiro and the North meanwhile


There is nothing to hit except 75k Allied troops in x3 terrain with probably 6-7 forts by now. They ship has sailed.

Does it sound like a good training and firing ground for bombers crews and - possibly - for the big siege guns -provided you can sustain the ammunition ependiture ? Does he keep any air there?


Japan cannot afford to use supply that doesn't generate either positive VPs or create delay. The constraints on Japan are supply and he is fighting for victory points and time.

(in reply to adarbrauner)
Post #: 2901
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 11:48:52 AM   
Lowpe


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Status: offline 		Good luck on the Cruiser bombardment! There is no runway at that base is there?

So, I got to thinking that countering this tactic from the Allies is one of the greatest challenges that any Japanese player faces. To my mind those challenges are:

The Kitchen Sink deep invasion
Fletchers
Night bombing
4E beasts
Lightnings...then Thunderbolts, Corsairs and Spitfires sweeps.
Allied SigInt
Rotating Allied bombardments

Some have been solved pretty much, others are still worrisome, but has anyone stopped dead in their tracks a kitchen sink invasion in 1944 or 1945. Koniu?

Additionally, Why does the juggernaut not send out any offensive missions? IF I had AO and AE to replenish from, I would be sending out 3 ship squadrons of Fletchers looking to hit Japanese shipping. Three destroyers doesn't draw a huge alpha strike from the KB or land based air, and it would be great to set up CAP traps under those agile flak carrying death machines...plus the Japanese might have to struggle to rearm?

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/14/2019 12:10:55 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2902
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 2:00:42 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

Why not to hit at Kushiro and the North meanwhile


There is nothing to hit except 75k Allied troops in x3 terrain with probably 6-7 forts by now. They ship has sailed.

Does it sound like a good training and firing ground for bombers crews and - possibly - for the big siege guns -provided you can sustain the ammunition ependiture ? Does he keep any air there?


Japan cannot afford to use supply that doesn't generate either positive VPs or create delay. The constraints on Japan are supply and he is fighting for victory points and time.



The only training bomber crews will get hitting Kushiro, Wakkanai or Toyohara is KP duty in the POW camp if they survive after being riddled by 90mm flak guns. Allied flak makes any hit by the IJAAF 2E very selective and necessarily strategic at this stage of the war.

I had the option to send in 6k AV to one of the Hokkaido bases to try and wrest it (and its VPs) from Allied control, but even two divisions in x3 with some arty, AA and maybe a few tanks and engineers would stymie that Japanese army for months and possibly longer. The Allies could always just reinforce whenever they felt like it with waves of landing craft coming from the Kuriles. I don't have naval assets to stop that and air strikes haven't been targeting the small craft the Allies have sent to Wakkanai for months.

It is the endgame, which has different rules, and actually I'm very pleased with the position I'm in, considering where I've been before at this stage. Its a waiting, delay and strike game where opportunities have to be considered at many levels before taking action. I didn't get the last one right, or my commander botched an opportunity, but it was a minor wound in the grand campaign. There is still time to delay further, and that is the only goal that is viable right now.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 4:59:15 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

To crack a 2000 plane CAP, you need 4000 fighters escorting ~200 bombers. 4000 fighters => ~110 groups … IJN doesn't have that many, maybe half.


As Eric observed, looks like a fighter heavy DS just to kill his airforce. Until he is in LBA range, there is no air attack that can succeed. Even with LBA, 4000 fighters (1st line, N1K1, A7M, Ki-84) not sure that many exist.

Think we need to look at other options. He has no, or very few bombers. MM suggests: lots of little fleets ... every PB, SC, E, PT, MTB, etc ... and mines ... Maybe?

He doesn't have bombers so naval bombardment is what he is counting on. What about having your SCTF's (whatever is left) ready to hit him AFTER the bombardment before he can replenish?

Don't know ... always tough choices at this point ...






The Allies don't need to change the airframe mix on their carriers to fighter heavy to put a 2k CAP over the DS at this stage of the war.

Carrier air squadron upgrades have already done that for him. At this point fleet CVs have two 36 plane fighter squadrons and two 15 plane bomber squadrons.

In August '45 I can put a 2.5k CAP over my DS.

The 40 or 50 CVEs each adding 21-22 fighters account for a big percentage of the total number.

An assumption he has few or no bombers may not be valid.

40 or 50 CVEs carrying only 9 bombers each still represents a large bomber force even if the CVs and CVLs have been stripped of bombers.

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 6:44:50 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

That is a really nice turn...what is he doing with all those small craft? I guess they are empty, or mostly empty, or do they have supply?

I dislike when the Allies throw troops or material away like that.

That base will be an absolute nightmare for you.

I can't believe you can get away with having all that shipping around. And why are all the subs to the south?

I can't figure out AFBs, that for sure.


My answer is:

The effort/return on subs is extremely minimal. They suck.

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2905
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 7:28:29 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

That is a really nice turn...what is he doing with all those small craft? I guess they are empty, or mostly empty, or do they have supply?

I dislike when the Allies throw troops or material away like that.

That base will be an absolute nightmare for you.

I can't believe you can get away with having all that shipping around. And why are all the subs to the south?

I can't figure out AFBs, that for sure.


My answer is:

The effort/return on subs is extremely minimal. They suck.





(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 2906
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 8:12:23 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
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From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		To crack a 2000 plane CAP, you need 4000 fighters escorting ~200 bombers. 4000 fighters => ~110 groups … IJN doesn't have that many, maybe half.

Not if the dice rolls go your way:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Saipan at 114,98

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B6N2 Jill x 35
B6N2a Jill x 3
J2M3 Jack x 27
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 38
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 33
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 35
Ki-84a Frank x 44
Ki-100-I Tony x 48

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 54
Hellcat I x 36
Hellcat F.II x 12
Seafire L.III x 60
Wildcat V x 12
FM-1 Wildcat x 221
FM-2 Wildcat x 744
F6F-3 Hellcat x 654
F6F-5 Hellcat x 84
OS2U-3 Kingfisher x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
B6N2 Jill: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged
B6N2 Jill: 3 destroyed by flak
B6N2a Jill: 1 damaged
J2M3 Jack: 12 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 14 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 9 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 12 destroyed
Ki-84a Frank: 17 destroyed
Ki-100-I Tony: 21 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Seafire L.III: 1 destroyed
FM-1 Wildcat: 3 destroyed
FM-2 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CVE Gambier Bay
CVE Manila Bay, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
CVE Liscome Bay, Torpedo hits 5, and is sunk
CVE Nehenta Bay, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Kalinin Bay, Torpedo hits 1, Kamikaze hits 2, on fire
CVE White Plains, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Natoma Bay, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
31 x B6N2 Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
3 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2907
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 8:45:04 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		CVE = Combustible Vulnerable Expendable

Well Done Miller!

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 2908
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/14/2019 9:15:59 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		Keep chipping away. He's got limited ability to rearm and refuel, and no ability to repair damage until he captures somewhere.

No replacement planes once the CVE replenishment squadrons are exhausted as well.

I see you're doing it already, but I've found that ultra-high attacks with good escorts can sometimes draw CAP out of position. If there's an extended dogfight above the 35k mark, it can leave an opening for follow-on strikes.

quote:

This turn I'm sending in the CAs to bombard Kume, just taken next to Okinawa, in order to retard any port growth and hit any unloading ships there as well. Secondarily, the CAs will base to Naha t lure any strikes turned on after the devastation last turn. He could try turing on what he has (probably 300 DB/TB on the DS) thinking I'll pull everything back. We'll see.


I wouldn't bombard tbh, better served by keeping the ammo for surface warships to try and sink amphibs. Allied engineers will have Kume reopened very quickly if it's a small base.

Given CR's turtling nature, I'd dismount the DD escorts from the KB and send them to Naha as well (provided you can rearm them at Naha). Keep angles of attack open on all sides.

The next few turns will either be extremely painful or a second Tsushima. Which reminds me, make sure Tsushima stays strongly garrisoned, and start getting troops on railroads to Shanghai in case it's a China landing!

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2909
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/15/2019 4:35:07 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


... He needs a replenishing port and home base at some point soon, and if I can force some combat things might go astray from the big packed mob.

It looks like he's going into the deep North China Sea up near Korea, possibly. That presents some opportunities, but again, this is most likely the entire USN in mid-45. That's like 20 DD TFs, 10 CA/CL TFs, 5 BB TFs, and zillions of DE as well as all of the transports and landing craft that will get in the way. Any move is to break something apart and send some back to a home base listed in the Kuriles...



He already has a port much closer than the Kuriles.

If he has brought the entire mid-1945 USN fleet why would he not have brought a large fleet train as well. That fleet train, which would include AKE, TK, AR, ARD, AD, AV, can be disbanded at the small base he captured in the Ryukus to provide temporary repairs. Add a zillion of naval support squads plus engineers to build up the port/airfield quickly and presto even extensive repairs won't be a daunting task. All close to the battle zone. In the meantime his replenishment task forces can remain on station and quickly pop into the captured port to rearm/refuel.

Leave the Death Star alone. Focus on the recently lost bases which will be soon visited by enemy task forces. Let the DS accompany the invasion fleet, hit the other targets not under the DS umbrella.

Alfred

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2910
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