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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/2/2019 10:06:32 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 6-7, 1945

As the Allies move down Malaya they're starting to make these bases viable. I noticed 80+ fighters at Malacca a few days after it changed to Allied hands. On the 6th I swept and found a nice haul of P-40N5 there. No match for the sweeping Franks. On the day about 50 are shot down for 9 Franks lost.

The most interesting thing about this event ifs the Allied altitude settings. He is trying out the low CAP.

It won't work with P-40N5 as I think he's just found out, but it may work with a different combo of better airframes. I'm sure I'll encounter more soon. Luckily I've done some thinking on this and have some things I'd like to try in return.

In the North I para-dropped on Soochow next to Shanghai, but will move out now. It's not worth losing troops to hold it with a garrison, and there were no supplies to steal. I'll try a few more though.

Not much else going on these turns. It makes me think this landing in China is prep for something else? Not necessarily a campaign to move deep, but a staging for a move to Korea, or Formosa, or the Home Islands? If that is true though the Allies have quite a few troops pushed forward now. Very interesting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 6, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on Malacca , at 49,81

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 46 NM, estimated altitude 39,270 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 33

Allied aircraft
P-40N5 Warhawk x 75

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 5 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40N5 Warhawk: 17 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-84r Frank sweeping at 38270 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Malacca , at 49,81

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 46 NM, estimated altitude 42,270 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-84r Frank x 36

Allied aircraft
P-40N5 Warhawk x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40N5 Warhawk: 13 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
28 x Ki-84r Frank sweeping at 38270 feet

CAP engaged:
51st FG/16th FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 20 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000 , scrambling fighters between 5000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 29 minutes
80th FG/89th FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 20 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000 , scrambling fighters between 8000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 16 minutes
51st FG/449th FS with P-40N5 Warhawk (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 15 scrambling)
3 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 31000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 19 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 7, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 7th RGC Temp. Division, at 86,50 , near Hankow

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 10
Liberator B.VI x 26
A-26B Invader x 16
B-24J Liberator x 14
P-38L Lightning x 17
P-51D Mustang x 57
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 12
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 29

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 3 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 5 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
432 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 32 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 8000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Soochow (92,54)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 68 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 5

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Soochow !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
1st Glider Inf. Rgt /3

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The points from Saigon are now showing in the Allies VP totals. It's neck and neck! They'll move ahead within a day or two.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/2/2019 10:08:02 AM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3061
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/2/2019 10:35:34 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


A question here. I can't remember if Soviet industry damage nets strategic points for the Japanese? If so, that would be very useful.



No luck. Strategic bombing of Soviet industry doesn't yield Japan any strategic bombing victory points. You only get the usual logistical benefits, primarily reducing supply production as almost all Soviet aircraft are not produced on map.

Alfred

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3062
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/2/2019 10:57:20 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


A question here. I can't remember if Soviet industry damage nets strategic points for the Japanese? If so, that would be very useful.



No luck. Strategic bombing of Soviet industry doesn't yield Japan any strategic bombing victory points. You only get the usual logistical benefits, primarily reducing supply production as almost all Soviet aircraft are not produced on map.

Alfred


Too bad. I'll try to find some early Yaks to jump then.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3063
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/2/2019 11:22:34 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

... Not much else going on these turns. It makes me think this landing in China is prep for something else? Not necessarily a campaign to move deep, but a staging for a move to Korea, or Formosa, or the Home Islands? If that is true though the Allies have quite a few troops pushed forward now. Very interesting...


Not necessarily.

Ask yourself these questions:

(a) how much AV has been landed in China?

(b) do the existing IJA Chinese forces together with the ex-Burma forces arriving from the west greatly outnumber the landed Allies?

(c) where is the bulk of the former Allied Burma forces heading, Singapore or Indochina/western China?

(d) from where did the bulk of the landed Allied forces come from? Are they veterans of the fighting on Sakhalin/Hokkaido or some quiet front?

(e) have the captured airfields been packed with Allied aircraft?


If the bulk of the forces are from Sakhalin/Hokkaido it wouldn't make much sense to send them on a huge dogleg (and very time consuming exercise as well) to Korea or the Home Islands via this landing in China. The only sense would be if you withdrew significant forces from Korea/HI to meet the landing and your opponent thought he could reembark and get to Korea/HI before you could reverse the travel movements.

The Allies don't need this shield in China to give them protection for a subsequent landing on Formosa (or the Philippines). It would only make some limited sense if only a small landing were made in order to leave sufficient force to reembark for Formosa.

The quality and quantity of the enemy air force now in China will give hints. Is it configured to support Soviet operations (unlikely as it is far too soon before Soviet activation not to mention the range) or to strike at HI industry which is not reachable from his current northern airfields.

If the freed Allied ex Burma forces are not heading for Singapore it might mean your opponent thinks western China has been denuded of Japanese forces and they can gobble up those bases while the Sitzkrieg around Shanghai continues. Do the Allies have any intel that you have moved ex Burma LCUs into the Sitzkrieg?

Can the existing Allied LBA cover an Allied land offensive. The fact that 3 recently captured China bases, significantly all in clear terrain, were left without Allied garrisons might indicate the Allied air force is not strong enough. The enemy could therefore be waiting for the arrival of further air reinforcements or the buildup of captured airfields/building of fortification levels before a further land offensive is made.


The bottom line is that something was not factored into the Allied planning. Perhaps he had not counted on the arrival of your Burma forces, or the quantity/mobility of the existing garrisons to quickly reinforce the Sitzkrieg lines, or he had thought his armor bns sent forward of the infantry would achieve more and disrupt the Japanese response, or he thought you would be short of supply and thus hamstrung in fighting. What I am certain is that this is no giant, carefully planned and orchestrated maskirovka.

Alfred

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3064
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/2/2019 11:35:16 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 8-9, 1945

A few more bases won in the South. A few more air strikes up North and naval bombardments of Shanghai.

Still confused about the Allied plans here. Again, no troops moving forward anywhere I can see in China.

Currently I'm shipping a few naval HQs to Oosthaven to make a more secure port for oil/fuel removal from Palembang as the Allies approach the straits. Got a lot of tankers ready to haul. I'm using Soerabaja as the main resource loading port and I'd like to use it for fuel/oil too. Transport from Oosthaven to Batavia and have it move by rail to Soerabaja, then on to the safe route back through the Central Pacific.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 8, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 808 encounters mine field at Shanghai (92,55)

Allied Ships
DD Zellars, Mine hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 3rd Special Base Force, at 88,55 , near Chuhsien

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 10
A-26B Invader x 54
B-24J Liberator x 10
P-38L Lightning x 15
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 10
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 15
PV-2 Harpoon x 12

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 4 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 4 damaged
PV-2 Harpoon: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
170 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tourane (66,65)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 4158 troops, 18 guns, 282 vehicles, Assault Value = 331

Defending force 2074 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 64

Allied adjusted assault: 276

Japanese adjusted defense: 25

Allied assault odds: 11 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Tourane !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(-), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
998 casualties reported
Squads: 27 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 18 destroyed, 6 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 3

Allied ground losses:
49 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
Provisionl Tank Brigade
50th Tank Brigade

Defending units:
4th South Seas Gsn
56th Naval Guard Unit
2nd Raiding Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Victoria Point (51,66)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3481 troops, 36 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 140

Defending force 532 troops, 15 guns, 4 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Allied adjusted assault: 248

Japanese adjusted defense: 5

Allied assault odds: 49 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied forces CAPTURE Victoria Point !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 6 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 10 (9 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (4 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
111th Chindit Brigade

Defending units:
17th JAAF AF Bn
1st RF Gun Battalion
120th Div /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 9, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 831 encounters mine field at Shanghai (92,55) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

12 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DMS Forrest
DMS Palmer, Shell hits 1
DD Eaton
DD Cogswell
DD Chevalier
DD Chauncey

Shanghai Special Base Force firing at DMS Forrest
DMS Forrest firing at Shanghai Special Base Force

64 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Shanghai at 92,55

Allied Ships
BB Iowa
BB South Dakota
CA Salt Lake City
CL Wilkes-Barre
DD Eaton
DD DeHaven
DD Converse
DD Cogswell
DD Chevalier
DD Chauncey
DD Boyd
DMS Forrest
DMS Palmer

Japanese ground losses:
162 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 9 (5 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Heavy Industry hits 1
Resources hits 1
Merchant Shipyard hits 1
Manpower hits 3
Repair Shipyard hits 1
Fires 264
Airbase hits 21
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 62
Port hits 11

OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB Iowa
BB Iowa firing at Shanghai

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 22nd Special Base Force, at 95,47 (Tsingtao)

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 9
Liberator B.VI x 14
Liberator GR.VI x 12
A-26B Invader x 34
B-24J Liberator x 20
P-38L Lightning x 23
P-51D Mustang x 85
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 15
PV-1 Ventura x 3
PV-2 Harpoon x 13

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 2 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 3 damaged
Liberator GR.VI: 1 destroyed by flak
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 8 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 3 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 3 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 2 damaged
PV-2 Harpoon: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd South Seas Det. , at 64,72 (Cam Ranh Bay)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 5

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 3 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x A-26B Invader bombing and strafing from low level *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This one is odd. An Allied unit moves forward into the territory between Chusien and Hangkow. Now it's showing movement backwards again? Is this a ploy to make me think he's not coming this way, and then he'll add a few more units and surge forward, trying to flank my x3 blocking hex? I've got an ID and a very good base force with AA blocking ni the x2 rough here but would need more to stop anything decent the Allies might send.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3065
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/2/2019 11:55:52 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

... Not much else going on these turns. It makes me think this landing in China is prep for something else? Not necessarily a campaign to move deep, but a staging for a move to Korea, or Formosa, or the Home Islands? If that is true though the Allies have quite a few troops pushed forward now. Very interesting...


Not necessarily.

Ask yourself these questions:

(a) how much AV has been landed in China?

(b) do the existing IJA Chinese forces together with the ex-Burma forces arriving from the west greatly outnumber the landed Allies?

(c) where is the bulk of the former Allied Burma forces heading, Singapore or Indochina/western China?

(d) from where did the bulk of the landed Allied forces come from? Are they veterans of the fighting on Sakhalin/Hokkaido or some quiet front?

(e) have the captured airfields been packed with Allied aircraft?


If the bulk of the forces are from Sakhalin/Hokkaido it wouldn't make much sense to send them on a huge dogleg (and very time consuming exercise as well) to Korea or the Home Islands via this landing in China. The only sense would be if you withdrew significant forces from Korea/HI to meet the landing and your opponent thought he could reembark and get to Korea/HI before you could reverse the travel movements.



(a) I've only seen about 4kAV near Chosien in battle, but I can see another 100k troops forward in several locations and 120k in Tungchow, the main Allied landing hex. It's now a level 9 field with 500 fighters and 500 bombers listed. There have also been about 10-12 roaming armoured units.

(b) I'm not sure the IJA can outnumber the Allies yet, as most of the Burma forces will be deployed to block direct access to China via road links. The tanks were able to move quickly to counter the Allied approach. I've got about 5k AV in the area blocking toward Central China, another 3k AV blocking access to the NW, and maybe 1k AV to the North currently, with some more on the way for that end of things.

(c) Only a few units went to Singers to beef that up. Others have been stalling the Allied advance, but mostly smaller units in Indochina. About 90% moved into China but as stated, most will stay to the South.

(d) By recon numbers and the location of the DS move toward China, I'm guessing most have come from the Kuriles, Hokkaido and Shikuka. I'd have to confirm by looking at unit names for those ops and these.

(e) There are still a lot of planes in the North, including the B-29s. About 700 fighters total and maybe 600 bombers plus the DS are in China.

It may be he thought a large force would move from Korea, and it has, but they've moved through Korea. The troops already there stayed there.

quote:



The Allies don't need this shield in China to give them protection for a subsequent landing on Formosa (or the Philippines). It would only make some limited sense if only a small landing were made in order to leave sufficient force to reembark for Formosa.

The quality and quantity of the enemy air force now in China will give hints. Is it configured to support Soviet operations (unlikely as it is far too soon before Soviet activation not to mention the range) or to strike at HI industry which is not reachable from his current northern airfields.



This is what I'd assumed, but it hasn't happened yet.

quote:



If the freed Allied ex Burma forces are not heading for Singapore it might mean your opponent thinks western China has been denuded of Japanese forces and they can gobble up those bases while the Sitzkrieg around Shanghai continues. Do the Allies have any intel that you have moved ex Burma LCUs into the Sitzkrieg?



Yeah, I'm sure he could see some with SIGINT and bombing results.

quote:



Can the existing Allied LBA cover an Allied land offensive. The fact that 3 recently captured China bases, significantly all in clear terrain, were left without Allied garrisons might indicate the Allied air force is not strong enough. The enemy could therefore be waiting for the arrival of further air reinforcements or the buildup of captured airfields/building of fortification levels before a further land offensive is made.

The bottom line is that something was not factored into the Allied planning. Perhaps he had not counted on the arrival of your Burma forces, or the quantity/mobility of the existing garrisons to quickly reinforce the Sitzkrieg lines, or he had thought his armor bns sent forward of the infantry would achieve more and disrupt the Japanese response, or he thought you would be short of supply and thus hamstrung in fighting. What I am certain is that this is no giant, carefully planned and orchestrated maskirovka.

Alfred


Could be. This is one reason I was pretty insistent bout the rail problem redo. Even a few days mattered in shifting forces to China, and it didn't have to be Shanghai directly, but it did need to be the area around it to build a more formidable road block.




< Message edited by obvert -- 4/2/2019 12:52:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3066
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/2/2019 1:37:47 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 10, 1945

On the 10th P-47N try a sweep at Wuchang. I have only one George group and a flying out Ki-83 group. The Jugs dove, the Georges dodged, the Ki-83 dove in, and then it was a rout. The crazy thing is that these were some of my worst front line pilots. All in the upper 50s and low 60s exp.

The Allies pummel a brigade fragment near Shanghai. It had level 7 forts before this turn, but suddenly is listed with level 6 forts. Can bombing reduce forts of dug in troops out of a base hex? I haven't noticed that before.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 10, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Wuchang , at 84,51

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 17 NM, estimated altitude 44,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 32
Ki-83 x 4

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 22

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 7 destroyed

CAP engaged:
312 Ku S-1 with N1K5-J George (0 airborne, 9 on standby, 19 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000 , scrambling fighters between 7000 and 39370.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 42 minutes
19th Sentai with Ki-83 (0 airborne, 3 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 9000 , scrambling fighters to 41530.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 17 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 35
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 24

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
239 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 2000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 10
Liberator B.VI x 13
B-24J Liberator x 10
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 30

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 1 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 7 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
228 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 36
B-24J Liberator x 21
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 10
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 14
PV-2 Harpoon x 14

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 7 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 3 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 damaged
PBJ-1J Mitchell: 3 damaged
PV-2 Harpoon: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
390 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 29 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x PV-2 Harpoon bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Cam Ranh Bay (64,72)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1290 troops, 0 guns, 92 vehicles, Assault Value = 69

Defending force 4277 troops, 64 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 65

Allied adjusted assault: 30

Japanese adjusted defense: 139

Allied assault odds: 1 to 4 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-)
Attacker: leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
39 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (1 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Carabiniers Regiment

Defending units:
7th Indpt SNLF Coy
2nd South Seas Det. /3
4th Raiding Rgt /1
Yokosuka 4th SNLF /1
Cam Ranh Fortress
87th JAAF AF Bn
91st JAAF AF Bn
8th Indpt SNLF Coy
201st JAAF AF Bn


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Medan (46,76)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2178 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 100

Defending force 2502 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 36

Allied adjusted assault: 42

Japanese adjusted defense: 33

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 6)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), fatigue(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: op mode(-), shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
83 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Allied ground losses:
149 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
98th Indian Brigade

Defending units:
44th Naval Guard Unit
28th JAAF AF Bn
41st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3067
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/4/2019 1:48:48 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 11, 1945

An interesting day. One of the now very aggressive USN subs chasing tankers around Borneo is sunk to start.

The Allies try a very effective low CAP in China. I swept Nanking with Ki-83 and the low Stangs, Corsairs and Lightnings got about 3:1 on the IJAAF. That's a bummer, but I do know how to counter. I'll see if some of my theories about it work.

The Allies sent in a lot more 1E without escort to bomb near Shanghai. This time there was CAP. Lots of destroyed Helldivers.

On the day the totals are ~135 lost for the Allies compared to 95 for the Japanese.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 11, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ASW attack near Jesselton at 66,85

Japanese Ships
TK Kenan Maru
E No.4

Allied Ships
SS Bullhead, hits 12, heavy damage

SS Bullhead is sighted by escort
Bullhead diving deep ....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Nanking , at 91,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 46 NM, estimated altitude 44,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 41

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 12
P-38L Lightning x 23
P-51D Mustang x 50

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 11 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed

CAP engaged:
No.14 Sqn RNZAF with F4U-1D Corsair (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 10 scrambling)
2 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 8000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 21 minutes
413th FG/1st FS with P-51D Mustang (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 20 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
23rd FG/76th FS with P-38L Lightning (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 18 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 30 minutes
311th FG/529th FS with P-51D Mustang (0 airborne, 2 on standby, 22 scrambling)
1 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 5000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 22 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 25,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 13
N1K5-J George x 26
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 26
Ki-84r Frank x 28
Ki-100-II Tony x 28

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 29

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 9 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 13
N1K5-J George x 21
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 25
Ki-84r Frank x 23
Ki-100-II Tony x 23

Allied aircraft
SB2C-3 Helldiver x 34
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 26

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-3 Helldiver: 8 destroyed, 2 damaged
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 7 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
110 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 4000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 9
N1K5-J George x 21
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 25
Ki-84r Frank x 22
Ki-100-II Tony x 21

Allied aircraft
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C-4 Helldiver: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SB2C-4 Helldiver releasing from 3000'
Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Cam Ranh Fortress, at 64,72 (Cam Ranh Bay)

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 5

Allied aircraft
A-26B Invader x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
A-26B Invader: 2 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x A-26B Invader bombing and strafing from low level *
Ground Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Nanking , at 91,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 44,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 41

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 11
P-38L Lightning x 21
P-51D Mustang x 44

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 3 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Medan (46,76)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 2075 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 85

Defending force 2171 troops, 10 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 30

Allied adjusted assault: 86

Japanese adjusted defense: 24

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
64 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Assaulting units:
98th Indian Brigade

Defending units:
44th Naval Guard Unit
28th JAAF AF Bn
41st JAAF AF Bn
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3068
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/4/2019 1:50:46 PM   
Anachro


Posts: 2506
Joined: 11/23/2015
From: The Coastal Elite
Status: offline 		Unescorted bombers...we all fall victim by doing it. Still, seems a bit reckless here.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 4/4/2019 1:51:00 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3069
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/4/2019 8:22:55 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Unescorted bombers...we all fall victim by doing it. Still, seems a bit reckless here.


Dan seems to use the 1Es as ablative strikes to overwhelm the defences at times. In this case I think he went for a few days with the 4Es and 2Es included, and either they didn't fly, or he thought this was already a lost cause fro me so i wouldn't defend it.

I try to make these moves in with CAP less predictable and I'll move out for tomorrow to avoid reprisals. I'll watch to see if he keeps going though, and what response if any he'll employ.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 3070
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/4/2019 8:27:36 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline 		What's the IJ top pilot billboard looking like now?

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3071
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/4/2019 9:30:52 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

What's the IJ top pilot billboard looking like now?


Here are the double aces and up. Still can't break 20 kills!

Lost some good ones last turn, but have a lot in the lower tiers to step up too.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 3072
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 9:25:38 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 12, 1945

The Allies are being very slow and cautious right now. No strat bombing of the Home Islands (or anywhere else). Very few sweeps (and none to major IJA bases). No troop movements or landings.

The Allies seem content to sit and bomb various troop concentrations. They were picking locations for a day or two, then changing it up before actually doing any real damage. Now they're fixating a bit longer, which gives opportunities to hit the bombers. I'm picking my spots, allowing some destruction where it's not a real problem, and getting groups ready to hit the bombers again.

Pilot training has been extensive lately with all of the training groups. Literally thousands of pilots being added to the pools in the last few turns. I'm also going to withdraw and disband the majority of the LB (bi-plane) training groups to save supply and inevitable VP loss when they're wiped out on the ground or in a fruitless kami strike. I don't need another 2,000 trained kami pilots, and I'm using all of those now being added to pools as potential fighter pilot rookies to be trained up in air skill since they already have a decent defensive skill from low bombing training.

I'll also be retraining about 500 pilots I've found with inadequate defensive skill but high exp and air skill (70-85 in each, but defensive skills between 25-55). I don't know how so many slipped through the cracks over time, but in training groups these should all pick u decent defensive skills soon.

The Allies are cleaning the last of the IJA from the Indochinese rail at Cam Ran and Quinhon. I predict they should get to Nanning (or that area) by July 1. Fine with me. It's been a long retreat from Burma, and in spite of the Allied pressure, the IJA have lost only a few units and had only one ID reduced.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 12, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 11
Liberator B.VI x 12
Liberator GR.VI x 3
A-26B Invader x 12
B-24J Liberator x 33
P-51D Mustang x 18
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 15
PBJ-1J Mitchell x 15

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 1 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 3 damaged
PBJ-1J Mitchell: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
519 casualties reported
Squads: 18 destroyed, 8 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Iwo-jima at 104,81

Japanese Ships
xAK Ada Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Zyunyo Maru
PB Nanrei Maru

Allied Ships
SS Atule

SS Atule launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Ada Maru
Atule diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Daito Shoto at 101,75

Japanese Ships
E Shisaka, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
E Amami
AK Toei Maru
AK Yamahagi Maru
AK Shinryu Maru
xAK Zuiko Maru
xAK Ikoma Maru
xAK Kosei Maru
xAK Sinsyu Maru
xAK Kozan Maru
xAK Imizu Maru
xAK Iburi Maru
xAK Takao Maru
xAK Heito Maru
E Habuto

Allied Ships
SS Pipefish

SS Pipefish launches 6 torpedoes at E Shisaka
Pipefish diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the huge influx of new units arriving supply has been evaporating far too quickly. I've lost 400k in the last month!

I've just turned off all units troop replacements, all fort building and I've begun to reduce training units flying in order to deal with the problem. Supply loss immediately stabilised and built up by a 4k last turn. Whew.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3073
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 9:37:38 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 13-14, 1945

The Indochinese rail is open completely to Allied troop movements now. The Allies also drop on Bengkalis on Sumatra. I see a carrier group and transports in the straits just South of Georgetown. I've activated a lot of MTBs and a few subs, but I don't have much to stop this from doing what it wants for now. Will the Allies move through and past Singers?

If the Allies are bold and go deep the entire SRA is wide open. There are few troops left to defend the oil and resource centres. More and more transports and tankers are entering the area trying to pull as much as possible before it's all shut down. I've got 30 xAK loading 150k+ resources at Soerabaja, several tanker TFs pulling from both Oosthaven and Palembang to reduce the surplus 120k fuel and 100k oil there, and all other fuel/oil centres are being constantly brought close to zero. Medan is the only one lost so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 91,55 , near Shanghai

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 9
Liberator B.VI x 3
Liberator GR.VI x 3
A-26B Invader x 16
B-24J Liberator x 31
P-38L Lightning x 18
P-51D Mustang x 53
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 15
PV-1 Ventura x 11

Allied aircraft losses
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 4 damaged
PV-1 Ventura: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
628 casualties reported
Squads: 35 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 39 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 14, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Naval bombardment of Shanghai at 92,55

Allied Ships
BB Iowa
BB South Dakota
CA Salt Lake City
CL Wilkes-Barre
DD Eaton
DD DeHaven
DD Converse
DD Cogswell
DD Chevalier
DD Chauncey
DD Boyd
DMS Forrest
DMS Palmer

Japanese ground losses:
201 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 15 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 7 (1 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Heavy Industry hits 1
Fires 1
Airbase hits 10
Runway hits 40
Port hits 3
Port fuel hits 1

OS2U-3 Kingfisher acting as spotter for BB Iowa
BB Iowa firing at 38th Division

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Quinhon (65,69)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 1680 troops, 0 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 69

Defending force 494 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 3

Allied adjusted assault: 15

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 15 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Quinhon !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
125 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 21 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
2nd USMC Tank Battalion

Defending units:
36th JNAF AF Unit
I/19th Naval Guard Unit
79th Garrison Bn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Cam Ranh Bay (64,72)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 16909 troops, 255 guns, 228 vehicles, Assault Value = 487

Defending force 1164 troops, 17 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Allied adjusted assault: 195

Japanese adjusted defense: 7

Allied assault odds: 27 to 1 (fort level 3)

Allied forces CAPTURE Cam Ranh Bay !!!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K2-L Emily: 7 destroyed

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
318 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 6 (4 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
26th Indian Division

Defending units:
91st JAAF AF Bn
Cam Ranh Fortress
87th JAAF AF Bn
201st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 66,67 (near Tourane)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 4164 troops, 18 guns, 282 vehicles, Assault Value = 206

Defending force 1246 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 36

Allied adjusted assault: 278

Japanese adjusted defense: 49

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
413 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 1

Allied ground losses:
115 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
50th Tank Brigade

Defending units:
56th Naval Guard Unit
4th South Seas Gsn /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bengkalis (48,82)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 204 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 14

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 14 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Bengkalis !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
111th Chindit Bde /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Allied army now showing itself on the way to China. This is a portion. How much is walking and railing along this route?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3074
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 10:56:01 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 15, 1945

Some interesting things on the 15th.

Firstly, the Allies strike with the hammer at Ominato. Very unexpected. This is one of the most well defended spots on the map, with the mutually supporting Hakodate and Ominato fields supplying over 400 CAP of the best fighters and most experienced pilots. The Allies had a good plan, but it went awry somewhere along the line, as only one sweep arrived before the main body of 4E bombers.

Predictably, the IJA CAP did very well. On the day nearly a month's production of B-24J and PBY-2 were destroyed, plus a good 12-15 PBY-1 and some very good fighters of all types. The Allied escorts performed well though, with the best airframes plentifully arriving with the biggest groups of bombers.

The Allies did do some damage, sinking a huge number of small craft and several big xAK, one xAP and a lot of small mining boats. The VPs on the day should be about even, but I'll take this trade every day of the week, as only ~30 Japanese pilots were KIA and the Allies lost a confirmed 85 (and possibly almost 100) 4Es on the day. I had just changed out pilots in a lot of these groups to add high defensive skill, but lower experience level pilots to this area that was seeing less action. A lot of those have just become multiple kill 70+ experience vets now.

In the South the Allies surge the RN forward and then this turn slightly back again to just North of Malacca. It feels like he's testing my responses (of which there are none) and trying to create misdirection. I'll just sit and wait.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 15, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 57
A7M2 Sam x 36
J2M5 Jack x 45
N1K5-J George x 106
Ki-84b Frank x 20
Ki-84r Frank x 117
Ki-100-II Tony x 18

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt II x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 5 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt II: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 60th Division, at 88,55 , near Chuhsien

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 13
Liberator GR.VI x 3
A-26B Invader x 49
B-24J Liberator x 15
P-51D Mustang x 32
PBJ-1D Mitchell x 15
PV-2 Harpoon x 15

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 1 damaged
A-26B Invader: 1 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 3 damaged
PBJ-1D Mitchell: 2 damaged
PV-2 Harpoon: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
590 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 59 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 22 (1 destroyed, 21 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x PBJ-1D Mitchell bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 49
A7M2 Sam x 35
J2M5 Jack x 36
N1K5-J George x 92
Ki-84b Frank x 15
Ki-84r Frank x 103
Ki-100-II Tony x 16

Allied aircraft
F-6D Mustang x 34
P-38L Lightning x 61
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 2
P-47N Thunderbolt x 3
P-51D Mustang x 66
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 72

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 3 destroyed
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed on ground
A7M2 Sam: 2 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed on ground
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-45 KAId Nick: 4 destroyed on ground
Ki-102c Randy: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-46-III Dinah: 2 destroyed on ground
B6N2a Jill: 2 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
F-6D Mustang: 5 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 6 destroyed, 37 damaged
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
3 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 22
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 61

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 33
A7M2 Sam x 26
J2M5 Jack x 27
N1K5-J George x 48
Ki-84b Frank x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 58
Ki-100-II Tony x 5

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 71
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 46
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 2 destroyed
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-102c Randy: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-45 KAId Nick: 1 destroyed on ground
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 6 destroyed, 27 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CMc Ma 1, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAKL Tientsin Maru, Bomb hits 5, and is sunk
CMc Ma 2, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CMc Ma 4, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
CMc Ma 3, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Nichi Maru #1, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Hirotama Maru, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
ACM Oi Maru, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Takashima Maru, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Yae Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
ACM Misago Maru #11, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Senyu Maru #2, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAP Teiko Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
AG Madras Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
SC CHa-45, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-425, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Nitian Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Ryoka Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Tamahoko Maru, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
ML G-432, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Choun Maru #18, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
PB Shinko Maru #2, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
ACM Wa 6, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ML G-306, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Kanko Maru, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
ACM Yoshino Maru, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Tamozono Maru #2, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
ACM Shawa Maru #10, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
SC CHa-74, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 9
Runway hits 8
Port hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 26
A7M2 Sam x 18
J2M5 Jack x 21
N1K5-J George x 37
Ki-84b Frank x 3
Ki-84r Frank x 47
Ki-100-II Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 25
PB4Y-1 Liberator x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 2 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 6 destroyed, 12 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged
PB4Y-1 Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x PB4Y-1 Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 31 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 19
A7M2 Sam x 8
J2M5 Jack x 12
N1K5-J George x 29
Ki-84b Frank x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 33

Allied aircraft
PB4Y-2 Privateer x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y-2 Privateer: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x PB4Y-2 Privateer bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 28 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 16
A7M2 Sam x 6
J2M5 Jack x 9
N1K5-J George x 22
Ki-84b Frank x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 27

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 12
PV-2 Harpoon x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 59 NM, estimated altitude 23,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 12
A7M2 Sam x 4
J2M5 Jack x 8
N1K5-J George x 18
Ki-84b Frank x 1
Ki-84r Frank x 18

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 28

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 4 destroyed
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 2 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 4 destroyed
Ki-84b Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 20000 feet *
3 x F4U-1D Corsair sweeping at 20000 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 24,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 3
A7M2 Sam x 3
J2M5 Jack x 2
N1K5-J George x 7
Ki-84r Frank x 8

Allied aircraft
F4U-1D Corsair x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 2 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
xAK Nitian Maru, and is sunk
xAK Yae Maru, and is sunk
xAP Teiko Maru, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Ominato , at 119,54

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 1

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 12
P-47N Thunderbolt x 12

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Port hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Malacca at 48,81

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 30 NM, estimated altitude 2,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1b Jake x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1b Jake: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Whirlwind, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x E13A1b Jake bombing from 1000 feet *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Daito Shoto at 101,75

Japanese Ships
DD Kiri, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
AK Tacoma Maru
AK Seattle Maru
AK Awazisan Maru
AK Sakito Maru
DD Tsubaki

Allied Ships
SS Pipefish

SS Pipefish launches 6 torpedoes at DD Kiri

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3075
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 11:59:16 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

June 13-14, 1945

The Indochinese rail is open completely to Allied troop movements now. The Allies also drop on Bengkalis on Sumatra. I see a carrier group and transports in the straits just South of Georgetown. I've activated a lot of MTBs and a few subs, but I don't have much to stop this from doing what it wants for now. Will the Allies move through and past Singers?

If the Allies are bold and go deep the entire SRA is wide open. There are few troops left to defend the oil and resource centres. More and more transports and tankers are entering the area trying to pull as much as possible before it's all shut down. I've got 30 xAK loading 150k+ resources at Soerabaja, several tanker TFs pulling from both Oosthaven and Palembang to reduce the surplus 120k fuel and 100k oil there, and all other fuel/oil centres are being constantly brought close to zero. Medan is the only one lost so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow, still collecting almost all the DEI in June 45 … your economy must be in great shape which bodes very badly for the allies. All of my plans are for losing DEI June 44, anything beyond that is gravy … you have a full year of gravy. That's like 20,000 additional AC for the IJ … huge potential difference …

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3076
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 1:18:34 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

June 13-14, 1945

The Indochinese rail is open completely to Allied troop movements now. The Allies also drop on Bengkalis on Sumatra. I see a carrier group and transports in the straits just South of Georgetown. I've activated a lot of MTBs and a few subs, but I don't have much to stop this from doing what it wants for now. Will the Allies move through and past Singers?

If the Allies are bold and go deep the entire SRA is wide open. There are few troops left to defend the oil and resource centres. More and more transports and tankers are entering the area trying to pull as much as possible before it's all shut down. I've got 30 xAK loading 150k+ resources at Soerabaja, several tanker TFs pulling from both Oosthaven and Palembang to reduce the surplus 120k fuel and 100k oil there, and all other fuel/oil centres are being constantly brought close to zero. Medan is the only one lost so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow, still collecting almost all the DEI in June 45 … your economy must be in great shape which bodes very badly for the allies. All of my plans are for losing DEI June 44, anything beyond that is gravy … you have a full year of gravy. That's like 20,000 additional AC for the IJ … huge potential difference …


I feel very fortunate in this, but I'm still feeling the pinch of not having the Northern resource centres. I probably should have pulled more earlier from the SRA, but trying to make up for it by sending literally every remaining xAK to Soerabaja to load up and head back to Tokyo. I could move this 1.5 million resources on Java within a few weeks if all goes to plan.

I'd not considered resources a chokepoint for the IJ late previously, but with an Allied Northern strategy they become much more dear.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 3077
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 1:25:36 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		Ok. One pilot now at 19 kills.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3078
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 2:26:41 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

June 13-14, 1945

The Indochinese rail is open completely to Allied troop movements now. The Allies also drop on Bengkalis on Sumatra. I see a carrier group and transports in the straits just South of Georgetown. I've activated a lot of MTBs and a few subs, but I don't have much to stop this from doing what it wants for now. Will the Allies move through and past Singers?

If the Allies are bold and go deep the entire SRA is wide open. There are few troops left to defend the oil and resource centres. More and more transports and tankers are entering the area trying to pull as much as possible before it's all shut down. I've got 30 xAK loading 150k+ resources at Soerabaja, several tanker TFs pulling from both Oosthaven and Palembang to reduce the surplus 120k fuel and 100k oil there, and all other fuel/oil centres are being constantly brought close to zero. Medan is the only one lost so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow, still collecting almost all the DEI in June 45 … your economy must be in great shape which bodes very badly for the allies. All of my plans are for losing DEI June 44, anything beyond that is gravy … you have a full year of gravy. That's like 20,000 additional AC for the IJ … huge potential difference …


I feel very fortunate in this, but I'm still feeling the pinch of not having the Northern resource centres. I probably should have pulled more earlier from the SRA, but trying to make up for it by sending literally every remaining xAK to Soerabaja to load up and head back to Tokyo. I could move this 1.5 million resources on Java within a few weeks if all goes to plan.

I'd not considered resources a chokepoint for the IJ late previously, but with an Allied Northern strategy they become much more dear.




The economic constraints on Japan can vary from game to game, but there always is one or more. That the Allied player almost never, ever coordinates their military goals with economic is perhaps one of their greatest failures.

Chalk it up to most Allied players never really understanding Japan's economic system & situation, or perhaps it is simply so easy to rely upon the bigger wrench theory and the path of least resistance.

Whatever, the case, it makes for much longer end games.







(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3079
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 3:58:33 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

June 13-14, 1945

The Indochinese rail is open completely to Allied troop movements now. The Allies also drop on Bengkalis on Sumatra. I see a carrier group and transports in the straits just South of Georgetown. I've activated a lot of MTBs and a few subs, but I don't have much to stop this from doing what it wants for now. Will the Allies move through and past Singers?

If the Allies are bold and go deep the entire SRA is wide open. There are few troops left to defend the oil and resource centres. More and more transports and tankers are entering the area trying to pull as much as possible before it's all shut down. I've got 30 xAK loading 150k+ resources at Soerabaja, several tanker TFs pulling from both Oosthaven and Palembang to reduce the surplus 120k fuel and 100k oil there, and all other fuel/oil centres are being constantly brought close to zero. Medan is the only one lost so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow, still collecting almost all the DEI in June 45 … your economy must be in great shape which bodes very badly for the allies. All of my plans are for losing DEI June 44, anything beyond that is gravy … you have a full year of gravy. That's like 20,000 additional AC for the IJ … huge potential difference …


I feel very fortunate in this, but I'm still feeling the pinch of not having the Northern resource centres. I probably should have pulled more earlier from the SRA, but trying to make up for it by sending literally every remaining xAK to Soerabaja to load up and head back to Tokyo. I could move this 1.5 million resources on Java within a few weeks if all goes to plan.

I'd not considered resources a chokepoint for the IJ late previously, but with an Allied Northern strategy they become much more dear.




The economic constraints on Japan can vary from game to game, but there always is one or more. That the Allied player almost never, ever coordinates their military goals with economic is perhaps one of their greatest failures.

Chalk it up to most Allied players never really understanding Japan's economic system & situation, or perhaps it is simply so easy to rely upon the bigger wrench theory and the path of least resistance.

Whatever, the case, it makes for much longer end games.





A very valuable observation, Lowpe!

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3080
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/10/2019 7:19:57 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
-----------------------------------------------------------------------[/color][/font]

The Allied army now showing itself on the way to China. This is a portion. How much is walking and railing along this route?






Ugh. Enough with the cliffhanger! Did the Allies have sufficient force to take the base?





_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3081
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 7:38:11 AM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

June 13-14, 1945

The Indochinese rail is open completely to Allied troop movements now. The Allies also drop on Bengkalis on Sumatra. I see a carrier group and transports in the straits just South of Georgetown. I've activated a lot of MTBs and a few subs, but I don't have much to stop this from doing what it wants for now. Will the Allies move through and past Singers?

If the Allies are bold and go deep the entire SRA is wide open. There are few troops left to defend the oil and resource centres. More and more transports and tankers are entering the area trying to pull as much as possible before it's all shut down. I've got 30 xAK loading 150k+ resources at Soerabaja, several tanker TFs pulling from both Oosthaven and Palembang to reduce the surplus 120k fuel and 100k oil there, and all other fuel/oil centres are being constantly brought close to zero. Medan is the only one lost so far.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow, still collecting almost all the DEI in June 45 … your economy must be in great shape which bodes very badly for the allies. All of my plans are for losing DEI June 44, anything beyond that is gravy … you have a full year of gravy. That's like 20,000 additional AC for the IJ … huge potential difference …


I feel very fortunate in this, but I'm still feeling the pinch of not having the Northern resource centres. I probably should have pulled more earlier from the SRA, but trying to make up for it by sending literally every remaining xAK to Soerabaja to load up and head back to Tokyo. I could move this 1.5 million resources on Java within a few weeks if all goes to plan.

I'd not considered resources a chokepoint for the IJ late previously, but with an Allied Northern strategy they become much more dear.




The economic constraints on Japan can vary from game to game, but there always is one or more. That the Allied player almost never, ever coordinates their military goals with economic is perhaps one of their greatest failures.

Chalk it up to most Allied players never really understanding Japan's economic system & situation, or perhaps it is simply so easy to rely upon the bigger wrench theory and the path of least resistance.

Whatever, the case, it makes for much longer end games.



Although CR hasn't stopped the flow from the South, he has been consistent in hitting resources, which was at first surprising. I assume he's chosen to go for the biggest concentrations of VP garnering strategic assets, balancing also their more vulnerable geographic locations on Sakhalin and Hokkaido.

The recent move to China could have easily stopped along the way to take a few bases that would help close down the flow of resources from the DEI. He didn't. This strategic omission, which would have also helped him tactically, is baffling. Now he's got a foothold in China but the VP situation has changed only incrementally in the past couple of months, the Allies are no longer moving forward from their strongholds on the mouth of the Yangtze, and the IJN is being allowed to move back and forth through the Pacific at will.

I'm sure he has a plan, but I bet you're right that it's not coordinated to prioritise handcuffing the Japanese economy.



_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3082
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 2:32:45 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		June 16, 1945

Well, lots of new activity. The Allies must be listening!

Big B-29 night strikes plague the Hankow airfield, our most important in China. Too bad this works so well. About 50 planes destroyed not eh ground by only 25 or so 4Es. Did get to a few B-29s which is positive.

At Singers more big strikes come in, this time during the day. The Allies could do some damage if they keep this going. They did take some good losses to sweepers, escorts and bombers. On the day though the ground losses give the Allies a slight advantage. Big losses for both sides on the day, all over Japanese bases, which is good.

The RO-112 got an unexpected stroke of luck when a possibly damaged CL Gambia rolled up near Okinawa. Three fish later and she was under.

Singapore is open, but reeling. Lots of action on the day, so we'll see what happens next.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 16, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Air attack on Wuchang , at 84,51

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 32 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 38 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 2 destroyed on ground
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 3 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
4 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 8
Runway hits 32

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed on ground
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 13

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed on ground
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed on ground
A7M2 Sam: 3 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-46-II Dinah: 2 destroyed on ground
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 4 damaged

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 18

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Hankow , at 85,50

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 22 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-49-IIb Helen: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 8
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Kume-jima at 94,64

Japanese Ships
SS RO-112, hits 22, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Gambia, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kempenfelt
DD Tuscan

SS RO-112 launches 4 torpedoes at CL Gambia
DD Kempenfelt fails to find sub, continues to search...
DD Kempenfelt attacking submerged sub ....
SS RO-112 forced to surface!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Malacca , at 49,81

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 48 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 27

Allied aircraft
P-38L Lightning x 7
P-40N5 Warhawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40N5 Warhawk: 6 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
19 x Ki-83 sweeping at 27000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 51
J2M5 Jack x 28
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 12
Ki-83 x 18
Ki-84r Frank x 51
Ki-100-II Tony x 7
Ki-102b Randy x 32

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair II: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 44,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 37
J2M5 Jack x 25
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 9
Ki-83 x 16
Ki-84r Frank x 40
Ki-100-II Tony x 6
Ki-102b Randy x 28

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt II x 30

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-102b Randy: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Thunderbolt II: 4 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x Thunderbolt II sweeping at 42000 feet
2 x Thunderbolt II sweeping at 42000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 75 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 31
J2M5 Jack x 23
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 6
Ki-83 x 11
Ki-84r Frank x 30
Ki-100-II Tony x 6
Ki-102b Randy x 22

Allied aircraft
B-25D Mitchell x 10
B-25J11 Mitchell x 28
P-38L Lightning x 29
P-47D25 Thunderbolt x 25
P-51D Mustang x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 2 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-102b Randy: 7 damaged
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-56 Thalia: 4 destroyed on ground
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-25D Mitchell: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-25D Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25J11 Mitchell: 4 destroyed, 11 damaged
B-25J11 Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-47D25 Thunderbolt: 3 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 12
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-25D Mitchell bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 6 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 49 NM, estimated altitude 21,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 11
J2M5 Jack x 14
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar x 2
Ki-83 x 6
Ki-84r Frank x 17
Ki-100-II Tony x 4
Ki-102b Randy x 19

Allied aircraft
Corsair IV x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIIa Oscar: 1 destroyed
Ki-83: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Corsair IV: 4 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 35 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 10
J2M5 Jack x 12
Ki-83 x 3
Ki-84r Frank x 15
Ki-100-II Tony x 2
Ki-102b Randy x 17

Allied aircraft
Liberator B.VI x 3
Thunderbolt I x 1
Thunderbolt II x 12
Wellington Ic x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
J2M5 Jack: 1 damaged
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 damaged
Ki-102b Randy: 1 damaged
Ki-102b Randy: 1 destroyed on ground
E13A1 Jake: 2 destroyed on ground
H8K2-L Emily: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
Liberator B.VI: 1 destroyed
Thunderbolt II: 4 destroyed
Wellington Ic: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
Wellington Ic: 1 destroyed by flak

Airbase hits 5
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Wellington Ic bombing from 7000 feet
Airfield Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/11/2019 2:33:40 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3083
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 3:32:11 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		It bears repeating that the threshold for an automatic victory "win" is actually 12/31/1945, not 8/31/1945, since it came up again a few pages (and 10 days...) back.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 3084
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 4:44:34 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It bears repeating that the threshold for an automatic victory "win" is actually 12/31/1945, not 8/31/1945, since it came up again a few pages (and 10 days...) back.


No.

The threshold of relevance is 31 August 1945.

The only significance of an Automatic Victory is that the game ends at that point (although the players have the option of continuing to play on). An Automatic Victory can be achieved in 1946. In terms of determining the level of victory, an Automatic Victory does not of itself represent anything for all it does by itself is end the game.

The game design only determines the level of victory at the end of the game, it is not determined during the course of the game. Why then do players accord an Automatic Victory more significance than the game design accords it? The answer is that the point at which it kicks in is one where if the scenario had ended by reaching the scenario end date with those Victory Points, the Victory Points won would be translated into a Decisive Victory. Except under two very specific circumstances, these being if the Allied player used more than 2 atomic bombs or it occurs after 31 August 1945. In both of these instances the actual game victory level is downgraded to less than a Decisive Victory because it is a performance inferior to the historical outcome.

For an Allied player anything less than a Decisive Victory equates to an inferior performance than the historical record and in turn represents Japan achieving its historical peace objective. Japan was never under any illusion that a satisfactory peace deal was possible unless the Allies suffered substantial losses. Those Allied losses did not have to exceed Japan's, they merely had to exceed the Allied public's willingness to support them. It is irrelevant what spin an Allied player places on achieving less than a Decisive Victory, the game is designed around relative, not absolute performance as measured by the Victory Points. As such it rewards the Japanese player who prevents his opponent from achieving a Decisive Victory.

All that obvert has to do is prevent his opponent from achieving a Decisive Victory by 31 August 1945. By doing so he guarantees that whenever the game ends (either via Automatic Victory or scenario end date) the game design rewards him with a relative win.

Alfred

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 3085
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 4:51:23 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline 		If the game doesn't track victory through the course of game play and only determines it at set incremental dates then why does the information screen indicate the "current" victory level before those incremental dates have been reached?

At work where I can't grab a screen shot to demonstrate, but will grab one and post it tonight.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3086
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 5:01:17 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

It bears repeating that the threshold for an automatic victory "win" is actually 12/31/1945, not 8/31/1945, since it came up again a few pages (and 10 days...) back.


No.

The threshold of relevance is 31 August 1945.

The only significance of an Automatic Victory is that the game ends at that point (although the players have the option of continuing to play on). An Automatic Victory can be achieved in 1946. In terms of determining the level of victory, an Automatic Victory does not of itself represent anything for all it does by itself is end the game.

The game design only determines the level of victory at the end of the game, it is not determined during the course of the game. Why then do players accord an Automatic Victory more significance than the game design accords it? The answer is that the point at which it kicks in is one where if the scenario had ended by reaching the scenario end date with those Victory Points, the Victory Points won would be translated into a Decisive Victory. Except under two very specific circumstances, these being if the Allied player used more than 2 atomic bombs or it occurs after 31 August 1945. In both of these instances the actual game victory level is downgraded to less than a Decisive Victory because it is a performance inferior to the historical outcome.

For an Allied player anything less than a Decisive Victory equates to an inferior performance than the historical record and in turn represents Japan achieving its historical peace objective. Japan was never under any illusion that a satisfactory peace deal was possible unless the Allies suffered substantial losses. Those Allied losses did not have to exceed Japan's, they merely had to exceed the Allied public's willingness to support them. It is irrelevant what spin an Allied player places on achieving less than a Decisive Victory, the game is designed around relative, not absolute performance as measured by the Victory Points. As such it rewards the Japanese player who prevents his opponent from achieving a Decisive Victory.

All that obvert has to do is prevent his opponent from achieving a Decisive Victory by 31 August 1945. By doing so he guarantees that whenever the game ends (either via Automatic Victory or scenario end date) the game design rewards him with a relative win.

Alfred


Unless you have information that directly contradicts the manual, there is no change in victory threshold for the Allies achieving a victory (not a draw) on August 31, 1945.

To achieve what you have termed a "relative win", the game date must be 1/1/1946 or later.

Again, unless you have information that the rest of us don't.

Editing to include the direct manual quote, bolding mine:
quote:


17.1 VICTORY LEVELS

War in the Pacific, Admiral’s Edition™ can end in either a Decisive or Marginal Victory for
one side, or in a draw. Victory Levels are displayed at the end of the game and determined as
follows:

»» Allied Decisive Victory: Allied VP Score is 1.75 times (or
greater) higher than the Japanese VP Score

»» Allied Marginal Victory: Allied VP Score is 1.25 to 1.74
times higher than the Japanese VP Score

»» Draw: The Allied VP Score or Japanese VP Score is 1 to
1.24 times higher than their opponent’s score

»» Japanese Marginal Victory: Japanese VP Score is 1.25
to 1.74 times higher than the Allied VP Score

»» Japanese Decisive Victory: Japanese VP Score is 1.75
times (or greater) higher than the Allied VP Score


17.1.1 VICTORY AFTER 1945

If the game ends in 1946 when the scenario time expires (as opposed to ending due to an
Automatic Victory), the Victory Level moves two levels in the Japanese player’s favor.
Example: scenario 15 ends when time expires in March 1946 with the Allies having 1.8 times
the Japanese points. Normally this would be a Decisive Allied Victory, but since it is ending due
to time expiring in 1946, it shifts to a Draw.


So a game that ends anytime in 1945 in an Automatic Victory is a Decisive Victory for the Allies, full stop. (According to the manual; personally I think 9/1/1945 should be the cutoff for a Decisive, as you have posted it is but it isn't.)

It is not actually possible for the Allies to achieve a Marginal Victory unless they use more than 2 atomic bombs.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 4/11/2019 5:07:06 PM >

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3087
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 5:22:34 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline 		Wrong.

The manual is very specific.  An Automatic Victory after 31 August 1945 is only an Allied Marginal Victory.

Alfred

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 3088
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/11/2019 5:43:39 PM   
John B.


Posts: 3909
Joined: 9/25/2011
From: Virginia
Status: offline 		Alfred, as always, is correct. From p. 266 "In addition, if the Allies score an automatic victory after August 31, 1945 the victory scored will only be an Allied Marginal Victory (unless the Allies have used 3 or more A bombs in which case the game would end in a draw)."

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 3089
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 4/12/2019 1:15:18 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2301
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline 		So, if you're Allies and have a 1.99 ratio on September 1, 1945, you'd want to be sure to keep under that until the end of the game to get a Decisive Victory (i.e. you'd want to end up between 1.75 and 1.99 in March 1946). You pop the 2.0 threshold you get a Marginal. It's an interesting possibility. CR could pull off a Decisive yet, at least according to the manual's terms.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to John B.)
Post #: 3090
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