Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: demyansk

Looks good warspite

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Saint Ruth

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ORIGINAL: wodin
Napoleon the Great A Roberts

That's a great book. I'm only half way through, but a great read.

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ORIGINAL: Edorf

Next on my list is probably Lloyd Clark’s “Blitzkrieg”, covering the 1940 campaign against France and the Low Countries.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

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ORIGINAL: Zorch

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

No - that's why they call it the Dark Ages, because it was un-illuminated by history.

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ORIGINAL: springel

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

Unfortunately, the best books with the modern insights at an introductory level with a grand story are in Dutch.

Also the majority of scientific publications are in Dutch, but here is a link to an English language example of the kind of stuff I read:

EDIT: wait a moment, that link is to a different paper from the same book.

Social Dynamics in the Northwest Frontiers of the Late Roman Empire

You probably have to register to download, you can use a Google or Facebook account, the site is trustworthy as far as I know. From there countless related academic papers are referenced.

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: Zorch

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

No - that's why they call it the Dark Ages, because it was un-illuminated by history.

That is why they wrongly call it the Dark Ages. The period has never been un-illuminated by history, and lately it is becoming more and more illuminated with each year that passes by. At least in my uneducated and humble opinion.

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: Zorch

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Sounds fascinating. Might there be a book that summarize the period and area in a manner that an amateur could understand?

No - that's why they call it the Dark Ages, because it was un-illuminated by history.

That is why they wrongly call it the Dark Ages. The period has never been un-illuminated by history, and lately it is becoming more and more illuminated with each year that passes by. At least in my uneducated and humble opinion.

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?

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ORIGINAL: Orm

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?

I am a bit confused. What has the Black Death to do with the "Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands"?

Please educate me,

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ORIGINAL: springel

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

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ORIGINAL: springel

Dozens of recent papers, historical and archaeological, on the Late Roman and Early Mediaeval history of the area of the Netherlands. The depopulation of the 4th century, the rise of the Frankish Kings in the South, the Frisian trade in the river area, the enforcement of Christianity, the contacts with the Danes, Lotharingia in between the proto-French and proto-German Empires.

A lot of stuff happened, but I don't know any wargames that depict that theatre. Crusader Kings fails, because its Carolingian start is just a back-projection of a much later feudal situation that has nothing in common with older power structures.

Interesting stuff, springel. As my avatar suggests, I'm a big fan of the implementation of the effects of malaria on the outcome of the Pacific War. How would you propose a game reflects the battlefield effects of the black death?

I don't know if a plague was to blame for the population hiatus in large parts of the Netherlands. There is no evidence for that, and Justinianus' plague seems to have been less catastrophic than sometimes suggested.

From the 14th century plague it seems that it has intensified conflict, certainly relative to its diminished population. But its influence would be on the strategic and economic layer, rather than on the battlefield layer, I think.

On the operational level the battlefield may have influenced the (spread of new waves of the) plague more than the other way around.

In the field ordinary diseases like dysentery and typhoid had probably greater impact than the Black Death.

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ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
So, springel-why *were* the Netherlands depopulated in the 4th century?

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

.....So happy with this I've bought Malta Convoys 1940-1943 too to dive straight into once I'm done

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

I may have to put Case White and Case Red on hold.... Ordered this today. Arctic Convoys almost done, then Malta Convoys and this puppy

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805