RE: OT: Corona virus

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: OT: Corona virus

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: OT: Corona virus

Page: << < prev 153 154 [155] 156 157 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:16:40 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

In fairness, if you knew half of what GCC got up to I think you'd be hard pressed to keep quiet on the issue.

That made me laugh.

quote:

Didn't realise that you were engaged in discussions with the Fed and the DoT. Let me know how those go!

I have to wait for the next Fed announcement. It's in the employment agreement.

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 4621

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:23:07 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Those are good points, BBfanboy, but perceptions will be hard to quantify. "We could have done better" is always the case, and finger pointing will be at a premium given our current environment. Analysis and self analysis will be done but it'll be a messy, imprecise exercise.

Deaths/M offers one way to measure impact. And, reading back through this thread, you'll see that there have many predictions that various US cities and states and regions were destined to suffer severe outbreaks. Those predictions were made despite distances and densities in population. But that didn't happen.

I understand your point and agree that dispersity may have been our biggest advantage. In that case, though, its hard to compare NYC against Arkansas or Tucumcari, New Mexico. Or Germany to the US.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, I don't follow. The only way to measure country to country is by deaths/M. That measure puts things into perspective.

I disagree with the country to country comparison as the best standard - the US and Canada have huge territorial dispersion of the population that is not the norm for the world. We will be judged on whether we could have done better by recognizing the danger sooner, acting sooner and coordinating effectively both within our country and in cooperation with the rest of the world.

We share knowledge with other countries, I don't understand why we cannot coordinate/cooperate at the policy and equipment levels, and maybe staffing levels to some extent too. We share forest fire/wildfire equipment and personnel with countries as far away as Australia, why not work to suppress this beast worldwide?

Yeah, I understand that politics drives a lot of the local decisions, often for the worse because politicians want to assure people that the problem can be handled locally and they (the politicians) are the ones who can fix it for them. But I think it will not go away long-term until it is handled worldwide. With all the communication tools we have these days it should be easy to coordinate a response if there was a will to do so.

+1 Dan.

BB keep in mind where much of the populations are in the US & Canada; it's not just about population across the whole land mass, there are pockets of very great concentration.

Most important, "could we have done better?" is a rigged question, that's clear when you look at it from a couple of steps back. The answer will always be "yes". Seeking lessons learned is good. The inevitability of imperfection does not mean you failed, but that is how political opportunists are using every observation, including many which are taken so far out of context they are not factual as used.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4622

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:24:32 PM

Zorch

Posts: 7087
Joined: 3/7/2010
Status: offline

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the jungle...'Scientists discover six new coronaviruses in bats' https://phys.org/news/2020-04-scientists-coronaviruses.html

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 4623

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:24:41 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Those are good points, BBfanboy, \

Yes, but we've gone OT. Where do you stand on Cpap machines and younger women?

To snip or not to snip, that is the question.

Standing on either one sounds like "don't try this at home" territory.

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 4624

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:27:06 PM

Sammy5IsAlive

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Louisiana's outbreak began about the same time (or earlier?) than NYC. It's not a second outbreak. It's an first outbreak that has already peaked and is declining ahead of NYC.

Second, US flights from Europe go to most of the large US airports, certainly including Atlanta and Chicago. If Europe is the source of NYC's outbreak, a similar level should've been experienced in Atlanta, Chicago and other major airports. That didn't happen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sammy5IsAlive

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The virus arrived at many US cities at the same time or earlier than it arrived in NY. Those other cities didn't experience massive outbreaks, either due to luck or some combination of other factors. Given your concerns, other cities already should have had raging outbreaks.

And Michigan isn't close to NYC. From NYC to Detroit is 614 miles - about the same as from London to Berlin.

I think that if you look right to the beginning the picture might be a little misleading. Remember that the virus started in China and so initially would have been coming into the US from the West Coast. I'd suggest that is why you have early start dates for places like Washington State and California. Your president took a lot of criticism for shutting down the flights in from China but it seems to me that from that perspective at least he was ahead of the curve and gave you another month or so before it started breaking out again in earnest on the East Coast fueled by infections coming from Europe (at what point were flights stopped from Italy and Spain?).

In terms of deaths/million - New York is worse than any of the European countries on 513. You then have Spain Italy and Belgium on c.350, New Jersey/France on c.250, and then Louisiana, Connecticut, Michigan and the UK on c.160-180. Massachusetts is on c120. For me that (Louisiana aside) gives support to my suggestion that the US might actually be dealing with its second outbreak.

I'm finishing my lunch break now and will have to come back to any responses this evening.

I went and checked the numbers for the main international airports for London, Madrid, Paris and Milan. Also Schipol as that is a big connector. Picked the top 3 connections with the USA for each. I got the following and added the numbers of flights. Slight skews that I only have top 10 worldwide destinations for CDC and top 20 for Schipol. Milan airport has their top 40 destinations listed and these only include NY, Miami and Newark. I assume that for other destinations they transfer either out of Rome or Schipol.

NY JFK 7.6M
LA 3.3M
Miami 2M
Atlanta 1.7M
Chicago 1.5M
Newark 1.3M
Dallas 0.9M
Detroit 0.6M

So NY has more than twice the passenger numbers compared to LA. Almost 5 times as many as Chicago or Atlanta. That is even before you start speculating about what proportions of US/Europeans comprise those numbers. I can see some Europeans flying out to Atlanta for business but I'd speculate that maybe 2/3 of those flights were Americans flying to Europe. Similarly I would not be surprised if there was a corresponding bias the other way round in terms of Europeans flying to and from NY. So potentially that could give you 5M vs 0.6M in terms of European passengers - almost 10 times as many.

From those numbers the bigger surprise would not Chicago/Atlanta/Miami but that there has not been a bigger issue in LA.

< Message edited by Sammy5IsAlive -- 4/14/2020 2:30:59 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4625

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:27:17 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, I don't follow. The only way to measure country to country is by deaths/M. That measure puts things into perspective.

And we are still going to be well below Germany.

Hans Bolter leapt off the deep end and implied it was anti-american to question what both our countries have done. (edit, its obviously not anti-american to question UK stuff!)

I don't think that helps when we both clearly have questions to answer.

(I leave it here btw as I don't want to get into a row over this now we've both made our points)

Anti-American is Anti-American no matter how you try to cloak it.
Please show me where I accused some one of being anti-American for asking a simple question.
You will likely find that the so called question was composed in a manner that lectured and or postured an anti-American position in the process of asking what became a not so simple question because of the manner in which it was couched.

The claims of innocence when we are all quite capable of reading the innuendo is something I find to be reprehensible.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/14/2020 4:51:53 PM >

_____________________________

Hans

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 4626

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:27:33 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Those are good points, BBfanboy, \

Yes, but we've gone OT. Where do you stand on Cpap machines and younger women?

To snip or not to snip, that is the question.

Standing on either one sounds like "don't try this at home" territory.

Well, you don't want to stand on a mate's Cpap tube, but that would be a bit weird.

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 4627

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:32:55 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Right, Sammy. LA and California have been major puzzles, at least to me.

As for airport travel, Atlanta is the busiest passenger terminal in the world. Folks come and go nonstop and also come and go from all the other airports. If traffic into NYC was an issue, that should've been reflected in places like LA and Atlanta (and the others too, given the level of mobility between major airports).

It seems to me, purely from an armchair, that population density probably played the biggest role in what happened in NYC. There are probably sub-categories, like the fact that NYC has alot of foot traffic and ethnic communities and family unit density that might not be similar in other cities. Those are just guesses, trying from an armchair to unravel what to me remains an unknown, at this point.

JohnD in NYC spoke about this at some length about 10 days ago, but I've mostly forgotten what he said.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 4628

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:33:15 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Oh dear.

Law suit?

Probably, or the offer of a quick and generous settlement. Plus corrective surgery and/or clinical help for her to get some buns in the oven.

There is a reason why the staff now asks you what you are in for before surgery and mark the appropriate part of the body. In a US Veterans hospital in the state of Florida, the wrong leg was removed.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 4629

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:37:52 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

In the UK, we are only counting hospital deaths in the daily totals btw.

not sure how that helps to be perfectly honest, and we have a looming problem in the care homes.

I think that means the curve won't be flattening out this week, but the social distancing is certainly having an effect.

Shopping at Asda today was a far less stressful experience as they had organised it a hell of a lot better so that the queuing and the spacing in the store was more than adequate.

_____________________________

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 4630

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:39:23 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

Oh dear.

Law suit?

Probably, or the offer of a quick and generous settlement. Plus corrective surgery and/or clinical help for her to get some buns in the oven.

There is a reason why the staff now asks you what you are in for before surgery and mark the appropriate part of the body. In a US Veterans hospital in the state of Florida, the wrong leg was removed.

There was a case like that in Oz.

We no longer have jury trials for cases like that - judge alone. The debate was - what is the $valuation of an individual of having a family, compared to the actual cost of doing it? Yes it was agreed there was a in-nominate value to affection and companionship that is hard to value. But the actuarial evidence was that raising a child costs you A$700,00 Pacific pesos.

I think he got $50,000 for the cock-up, so to speak. We no longer have exemplary damages for this sort of thing.

Edit - $700,000 per child - without private school education.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 4/14/2020 2:42:00 PM >

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 4631

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:42:34 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Encircled, I don't follow. The only way to measure country to country is by deaths/M. That measure puts things into perspective.

And we are still going to be well below Germany.

Hans Bolter leapt off the deep end and implied it was anti-american to question what both our countries have done. (edit, its obviously not anti-american to question UK stuff!)

I don't think that helps when we both clearly have questions to answer.

(I leave it here btw as I don't want to get into a row over this now we've both made our points)

Anti-American is Anti-American no matter how you try to cloak it.
Please show me wear I accused some one of being anti-American for asking a simple question.
You will likely find that the so called question was composed in a manner that lectured and or postured an anti-American position in the process of asking what became a not so simple question because of the manner in which it was couched.

The claims of innocence when we are all quite capable of reading the innuendo is something I find to be reprehensible.

Being anti-Trump is not anti-american. Pretty obvious that those of us from Europe are anti-Trump, but that doesn't mean we are anti-american. I'm certainly of the opinion that one country tends to be top dog, and its better being the US than the alternatives.

We are all students of history ffs, we all know the dangers of unquestionable belief in what the state is doing is right.

Questioning that is an essential part of our democracy, especially at times like this.

(Appreciate this is political, so happy to stop now I've made my point of view in regards to being called "anti-american")

< Message edited by Encircled -- 4/14/2020 2:51:20 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 4632

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:43:59 PM

Sammy5IsAlive

Posts: 514
Joined: 8/4/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Right, Sammy. LA and California have been major puzzles, at least to me.

As for airport travel, Atlanta is the busiest passenger terminal in the world. Folks come and go nonstop and also come and go from all the other airports. If traffic into NYC was an issue, that should've been reflected in places like LA and Atlanta (and the others too, given the level of mobility between major airports).

It seems to me, purely from an armchair, that population density probably played the biggest role in what happened in NYC. There are probably sub-categories, like the fact that NYC has alot of foot traffic and ethnic communities and family unit density that might not be similar in other cities. Those are just guesses, trying from an armchair to unravel what to me remains an unknown, at this point.

JohnD in NYC spoke about this at some length about 10 days ago, but I've mostly forgotten what he said.

Yeah I started off by googling busiest airports and was a bit confused initially by Atlanta. The impression I got was that it is a big domestic hub. I appreciate that journeys into NY don't necessarily just 'stop there'.

I agree with you that population density is a really big driver.

To be honest I think that this is one of those situations where we won't know who is right or wrong till further on down the line. I'm hoping that it is you! But at this point I am very much in a mode of wait and see.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4633

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:54:39 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ian R

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Those are good points, BBfanboy, \

Yes, but we've gone OT. Where do you stand on Cpap machines and younger women?

To snip or not to snip, that is the question.

Standing on either one sounds like "don't try this at home" territory.

Well, you don't want to stand on a mate's Cpap tube, but that would be a bit weird.

And standing on your woman...

_____________________________

Intel Monkey: https://sites.google.com/view/staffmonkeys/home

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 4634

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 2:57:01 PM

Ian R

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline

I think I have some castillo blue in the fridge.

I might just go and look for it.

< Message edited by Ian R -- 4/14/2020 2:58:50 PM >

_____________________________

"I am Alfred"

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 4635

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 3:00:00 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the jungle...'Scientists discover six new coronaviruses in bats' https://phys.org/news/2020-04-scientists-coronaviruses.html

quote:

he team focused their research on sites in Myanmar where humans are more likely to come into close contact with local wildlife due to changes in land use and development. From May 2016 to August 2018, they collected more than 750 saliva and fecal samples from bats in these areas. Experts estimate that thousands of coronaviruses��many of which have yet to be discovered�are present in bats.

Yeah, no kidding. Send a team of researches to stick swabs down the throats of bats and crawl around in the guano. They will find a potential pandemic virus all right.

Just like Bat Woman in Wuhan did.

(in reply to Zorch)

Post #: 4636

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 3:02:56 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

Thanks, Encircled for this: "Pretty obvious that those of us from Europe are anti-Trump, but that doesn't mean we are anti-american."

I wondered about that but didn't wish to articulate it. It helps put our forum community into better context. It might help both "sides" going forward.

In the US, the electorate is divided roughly in half. That's probably true for US members of the Forum too. When you add in UK and other folks who may be anti-Trump, the forum as a whole may lean decidedly that way.

(in reply to Ian R)

Post #: 4637

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 3:04:11 PM

Cap Mandrake

Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline

Chinese immigrant population in the US (non-citizens)

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/us-immigrant-population-metropolitan-area

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 4638

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 3:10:30 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Chinese immigrant population in the US (non-citizens)

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/programs/data-hub/charts/us-immigrant-population-metropolitan-area

Just looking at that map, you can probably guess where the Chinese type restaurants are.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 4639

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:23:23 PM

Encircled

Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline

Regarding the deaths in care homes in the UK, more bad news today.

This could get really bad, really fast.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/13/fears-half-coronavirus-deaths-may-care-homes-officials-accused/

_____________________________

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 4640

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:25:56 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I don't have confidence in Lokasenna's conjectures about my conjectures.

Well, I no longer see his conjectures. Your conjectures seem fine to me.

OK, I give in - you'll get a rise out of me.

This passive-aggressive pointing out that you've ignored me because of a misunderstanding is not becoming of someone of your presumed age and stature. Since I seem to have been nominated as the resident scold, I may as well step in to the role, yeah?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The folks who have gotten it consistently wrong are the ones who wish to impose their views on those who got it right.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Of course not. The proof was, and is, in the pudding.

Isn't clarity something good writers are supposed to strive for? Clear and concise. You're only getting the last part lately.

As for the proof - (1) you're not even saying what is supposedly proven by the pudding, and (2) you're not providing the pudding.

I demand pudding. Or pudding pie.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4641

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:25:59 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

From the preceding link provided by MakeeLearn (Swiss Propaganda Research): "Countries without lockdowns and contact bans, such as Japan, South Korea and Sweden, have not experienced a more negative course of events than other countries. This might call into question the effectiveness of such far-reaching measures."

I don't know anything about that outfit or its methods, but this finding would be groundbreaking if true.

Sweden's deaths per MM: 91.9 (but they literally take the weekend off from reporting accurate numbers and you can see this in a chart of their data; mid-week each week it resumes its upward march).

Germany's deaths per MM: 38.5

Meanwhile, South Korea didn't have to impose lockdown measures because they acted swiftly to implement testing and tracing (and quarantining contacts).

You can see the same thing happening within the US as well: California acted earlier than New York to impose lockdown measures, and they're doing much better at keeping deaths down because of it.

It's not the only factor, but it's huge.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4642

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:29:16 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

From Swiss Media Group: "In a serological pilot study, German virologist Hendrick Streeck comes to the interim result that the lethality of Covid19 is at 0.37% and the mortality (based on the total population) at 0.06%. These values are about ten times lower than those of the WHO and about five times lower than those of Johns Hopkins University."

If that's true, Chickenboy's thoughts way back on February 26 were on target.

Could you quote for us, since you bothered to note it already?

Did his thoughts include that (via serological testing verification) we could find out that the infection rate was higher than we knew at the time? I do remember that being widely conjectured, at least as early as mid-March if not sooner.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4643

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:32:03 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Careful Brazilian case/control study of Hydroxychloroquine halted because of dangerous arrhythmias in the high dose group (600 mg twice a day).

There was a convincing incidence of ventricular tachycardia

The patients still alive were converted to 450 twice a day. This is why you need the science instead of listening to prophets.

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-chloroquine-study-stopped-early.html?utm_source=notification

That would be absurd, and we'd actually have to make elected officials listen to expert medical opinion.

Based on past experience I'm going to guess you mean Trump. The thing is he DID listen to the advisers. There is an NIH study in the US. There is some value in elected officials offering some hope and keeping spirits up.

Given that he's in Britain, he could be talking about a British politician as well. *shrug*

I posted a link yesterday where this malaria treatment was shown not to be effective against COVID-19.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 4644

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:35:27 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2020/apr/14/donald-trump-when-somebody-is-president-of-the-united-states-the-authority-is-total-video?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1586845225

Trump has said "When someone is President of the USA, his authority is total"

Surely that isn't the case, I thought the individual states has powers to stop that sort of thing? (genuine question btw)

That may be a genuine question but that devolves into politics.

Nah, we can answer factually.

The president doesn't have total authority in the US. The idea that the position has total authority is a complete fantasy.

However, there are some things the federal government can stop states from doing or force them to do. Likewise, there are some things that only states can do and the federal government can't.

One of those things that the federal government doesn't have authority over is state-wide lockdown orders for public health emergencies. Intra-state matters are governed by governors/the states; inter-state matters are governed by the feds (in general).

(in reply to RangerJoe)

Post #: 4645

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:36:59 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Context people.

Taken alone, it is a ridiculous assertion but it wasn't meant to be taken alone. It was a response to a SPECIFIC question about lock-down rollbacks and governors making that call.

Is the criticism political? Hell yes it is. Mario the Pious (Cuomo) is the same guy who was bashing Trump and FEMA for not sending him 30,000 ventilators (which was WAAAY more than he needed and FEMA didn't even have that many) and now he wants to secede from the Union with New Jersey and Connecticut and Rhode Island decide when to reverse the Federal lock down order? Is he going to send the NYPD to bombard the Statue of Liberty? Do they have a flag yet? They will have to make one because the Stars and Bars are taken. I suggest the Yankee logo on a blue background.

What?

Although +1 for kicking the NYY out.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 4646

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:37:00 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline

California didn't act earlier.

California and New York issues their shelter-in-place/emergency orders almost simultaneously: California on March 19 and New York on March 20.

There probably are differences in restrictions, etc., but overall it seems they were close together.

Given the data on hand, it seems like California had cases before NY (IIRC), so its surprising the outbreak has been so contained there.

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 4647

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:38:02 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Sorry, but even with the context it still doesn't cut it.

You would think on a country that takes great pride in its democratic traditions would produce a leader that's a little more in tune with those principles...

Yes, yes, yes! We get that you don't like Trumpolini and take a supercilious air about those who voted for him.

By ra way, I propose a compromise. How about YOU vote for Glasgow City Council and let us vote for President? We promise to not say anything about parking enforcement and trash collection or the abridgement of internet speech and you let us try to find a vaccine and try to avoid sending the world into a 10 year depression by crushing a $22T economy?

This sort of thing is unnecessary.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 4648

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:41:43 PM

RangerJoe

Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

California didn't act earlier.

California and New York issues their shelter-in-place/emergency orders almost simultaneously: California on March 19 and New York on March 20.

There probably are differences in restrictions, etc., but overall it seems they were close together.

Given the data on hand, it seems like California had cases before NY (IIRC), so its surprising the outbreak has been so contained there.

California is not as densely packed as New York City.

Whatever he posted:

quote:

Lokasenna

This user is on your "block" list and the message has been blocked.
Click here to unblock this user and view this post.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

�Illegitemus non carborundum est (�Don�t let the bastards grind you down�).�
― Julia Child

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4649

RE: OT: Corona virus - 4/14/2020 4:41:44 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

California didn't act earlier.

California and New York issues their shelter-in-place/emergency orders almost simultaneously: California on March 19 and New York on March 20.

There probably are differences in restrictions, etc., but overall it seems they were close together.

Given the data on hand, it seems like California had cases before NY (IIRC), so its surprising the outbreak has been so contained there.

Your NY date is wrong. It's March 22.

Also note the difference in tone between the local public officials:

Mayor de Blasio in NYC telling "New Yorkers to go on with your lives" and "get out on the town despite Coronavirus" (quotes from his tweets).

Mayor Breed in SF saying "prepare for possible disruption from an outbreak" and had declared a local state of emergency on February 25.

More here: https://www.vox.com/2020/4/7/21205890/coronavirus-covid-19-pandemic-new-york-california

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 4650