Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Mods and Scenarios >> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests Page: <<   < prev  28 29 [30] 31 32   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/2/2020 1:11:15 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
Please add Swedish ELINT Electric Canberra TP 52 IOC 1960-1973

https://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Transport/267tp52/267Tp52.htm
https://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Transport/267tp52/267Tp52-2.htm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Canberra

Thank Yous!


< Message edited by BDukes -- 8/2/2020 1:12:01 PM >

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 871
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/2/2020 1:16:38 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
Please add Swedish ELINT TP 79[DC-3] IOC 1949-1985

https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_DC-3
quote:


Type 79 was initially based on Skaraborg's air flotilla (F 7) and Svea air flotilla (F 8). When F 8 was closed down as a unit in 1974, the remaining aircraft, Tp 79, Tp 83 , Tp 52 and Tp 85, were moved to Östgöta air flotilla (F 3). At F 3's closure in 1974, Malmslätt became a detachment to Bråvalla air flotillaand was called F 13M. The aircraft was re-marked with flotilla number 13 with continued base on Malmslätt. Among the aircraft type's many tasks within the Swedish Air Force are signal reconnaissance, materiel transport, development and testing of new electronics and radar equipment, training of navigators, transport of Army paratroopers, VIP transports, and aid flights in the Red Cross' service.


Thank Yous!

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 872
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/2/2020 2:38:49 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline
Will do thanks for the link

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 873
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/13/2020 5:33:54 PM   
TheOriginalOverlord

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 6/20/2000
From: The Marines
Status: offline
SS-2 sibling in CWDB 478..


Think band 1 cruise speed is a typo...shows 200kts This makes it have less range which in game is 296nm or via Wiki its 325nm.

Also I think reload time should be really long as it's basically a V-2 copy. As it is now the 6 launcher battery can fire all 18 missiles in seconds.


Also the AIM-9C no director bug is back as mentioned here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4150817



_____________________________

Semper Fi!

Jeremy


(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 874
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/17/2020 9:07:26 AM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kch

load out error

#86 AD-6 Skyraider (united states 1953)

When loading "mk81 LDGP, mk77 incendiary bomb" layout, the aircraft loads Mk82s, not Mk81s

Fixed

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to kch)
Post #: 875
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/17/2020 9:25:44 AM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheOriginalOverlord

FYI the following US WW2 era DEs are supposed to have steam plants vs diesel plants.

DE 224 Rudderow
DE 339 J.C. Butler
DE 51 Buckley

The F-101 Voodoo has some engine discrepancies... some have a single J57-53 #1 others have 2x J57-P-55 #1.. this includes the RF-101 variants as well. The plane is supposed to have TWO engines.


Thanks!

Both Fixed

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to TheOriginalOverlord)
Post #: 876
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/17/2020 9:38:55 AM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SunlitZelkova

Hi,

I am planning to create scenarios involving Soviet heavy naval units. However there are a number of inaccuracies on the ships so I would like to request changes. All of my requests are for units I intend to use in scenarios.

All information is from the book Stalin's Ocean-Going Fleet: Soviet Naval Strategy and Shipbuilding Programmes 1935-1953 by Jurgen Rohwer and Mikhail S. Monakov

Changes to DBID #266 BB Oktoberskaya Revolutsiya -- Soviet Union [-1991] (Naval Fleet [V-MF]), 1951, Cancelled Project

Length should be changed to 282 meters.

Standard displacement should be changed to 72950 tons.

Although I don't actually have information for it, presumably an HE shell existed for the 406mm guns of the Project 24 class battleship. I would like to request the creation of an HE salvo for the 406mm/50 Mk1 Triple Soviet mounts on the unit, but as I don't have details for the HE shell the specifications and parameters of the HE salvo may be decided by the DB manager.

The max speed should be lowered to 30 knots. The full throttle setting should become 25 knots.

Rename to BB Project 24 -- Soviet Union [-1991] (Naval Fleet [V-MF]), 2x planned

Change the year of entry into service to 1959

Changes to DBID #315 AKR Project 72 CV -- Soviet Union [-1991] (Naval Fleet [V-MF]), 1960

Length should be changed to 273 meters

Beam should be changed to 33.5 meters

Draft should be changed to 8.7 meters

Standard displacement should be changed to 30700 tons

Crew should be changed to 2300

Aircraft capacity should be changed to 62 medium aircraft in total. There is no information available for the amount of parking space on the deck and in the hangar so the DB manager may make decisions on how to divide it.

Rename to AKR Project 72 II-B CV -- Soviet Union [-1991] (Naval Fleet [V-MF]), 2x planned

If needed I can send a folder with pictures of the pages with the information.

A
quote:

AKR Project 72 II-B CV


All done

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 877
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/19/2020 11:27:09 PM   
SunlitZelkova

 

Posts: 209
Joined: 3/7/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: .Sirius



A
quote:

AKR Project 72 II-B CV


All done


Thanks!

_____________________________

Formerly known as Project2035, TyeeBanzai, and FlyForLenin

(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 878
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/22/2020 1:53:22 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
Hellos

I have update for Italian Navy AB.204B ASW helo #78 and need add AB.204AS version. B version bought from Bell and receive 1962 but get more AS version (License built by Agusta) called AB.204AS. Carry sonar and torpedo.

First version of AB.204AS in 1963 have AQS-5 sonar and Mk.44 Torpedo. This configuration in service in 1975.
In 1968 AB.204AS configured for multirole. Radar is ARI 5955 (same radar on UK Seaking) and did have AS.12 missile loadout. This service into Mid 1980's.

evidence:

http://www.anmicarrara.it/elicottero%20AB_204_facebook.html
https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2019_05/Immagine_315.jpg.a6899ee498542d826cf27f9de0a68171.jpg
https://www.baronerosso.it/forum/attachments/elimodellismo-riproduzioni/228824d1333219599-fusoliera-ab204-ab-20204-20mm-1-.jpg

(in reply to SunlitZelkova)
Post #: 879
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/22/2020 3:05:01 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
Please add AB-47G and J light helicopter to italian Navy.1953-1972

It navalized Bell 47J Helo. Look like J could have loadout of 1 Mk.44.

https://twitter.com/MikiAV8BHarrier/status/1249351119618351109/photo/1
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Italy-Navy/Agusta-AB-47J-3-Ranger/1140166
http://www.anmicarrara.it/elicottero%20AB_204_facebook.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_47J_Ranger

Thank!

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 880
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/26/2020 3:10:00 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

Hellos

I have update for Italian Navy AB.204B ASW helo #78 and need add AB.204AS version. B version bought from Bell and receive 1962 but get more AS version (License built by Agusta) called AB.204AS. Carry sonar and torpedo.

First version of AB.204AS in 1963 have AQS-5 sonar and Mk.44 Torpedo. This configuration in service in 1975.
In 1968 AB.204AS configured for multirole. Radar is ARI 5955 (same radar on UK Seaking) and did have AS.12 missile loadout. This service into Mid 1980's.

evidence:

http://www.anmicarrara.it/elicottero%20AB_204_facebook.html
https://forum.warthunder.com/uploads/monthly_2019_05/Immagine_315.jpg.a6899ee498542d826cf27f9de0a68171.jpg
https://www.baronerosso.it/forum/attachments/elimodellismo-riproduzioni/228824d1333219599-fusoliera-ab204-ab-20204-20mm-1-.jpg

Added :)


_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 881
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/26/2020 3:10:50 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

Please add AB-47G and J light helicopter to italian Navy.1953-1972

It navalized Bell 47J Helo. Look like J could have loadout of 1 Mk.44.

https://twitter.com/MikiAV8BHarrier/status/1249351119618351109/photo/1
https://www.airliners.net/photo/Italy-Navy/Agusta-AB-47J-3-Ranger/1140166
http://www.anmicarrara.it/elicottero%20AB_204_facebook.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_47J_Ranger

Thank!

All done


_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 882
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/29/2020 1:25:33 PM   
BDukes

 

Posts: 1695
Joined: 12/27/2017
Status: offline
Hellos

Thank for the adds.

Could you add French S class submarines? S 615 Sirene [S Class]. Did not last long. (1952-1958) x3

https://twitter.com/WarshipPorn/status/1299248125610164224

Thank yous

(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 883
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 8/29/2020 4:54:44 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BDukes

Hellos

Thank for the adds.

Could you add French S class submarines? S 615 Sirene [S Class]. Did not last long. (1952-1958) x3

https://twitter.com/WarshipPorn/status/1299248125610164224

Thank yous

No Problems

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to BDukes)
Post #: 884
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/2/2020 9:05:41 PM   
tylerblakebrandon

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 5/11/2020
Status: offline
Could the Mighty Mouse FFAR's be added to the F-102 and TF-102? Launchers were in the missile bay doors.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/36009/f-102-delta-daggers-weapons-bays-combined-rockets-and-missiles-in-a-feat-of-cold-war-ingenuity

https://www.456fis.org/F-102_IN_VIETNAM.htm

https://www.456fis.org/F-102_HISTORY.htm

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/197477/f-102-armament/

(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 885
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/2/2020 9:20:01 PM   
tylerblakebrandon

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 5/11/2020
Status: offline
Regarding the Safeguard SAM system the LIM-49 Spartan and LIM-99A Sprint missiles have a maximum target speed of 1150 kts. Too low for their ABM mission.

Also the LIM-99A Sprint has a top speed of 2300 kts. The missile's literature indicate speeds of Mach 10+.

Data from CWDB 478.

http://www.astronautix.com/s/sprintabm.html

http://www.astronautix.com/s/spartanabm.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LIM-49_Spartan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_(missile)

(in reply to tylerblakebrandon)
Post #: 886
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/3/2020 9:19:00 AM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tylerblakebrandon

Could the Mighty Mouse FFAR's be added to the F-102 and TF-102? Launchers were in the missile bay doors.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/36009/f-102-delta-daggers-weapons-bays-combined-rockets-and-missiles-in-a-feat-of-cold-war-ingenuity

https://www.456fis.org/F-102_IN_VIETNAM.htm

https://www.456fis.org/F-102_HISTORY.htm

https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/197477/f-102-armament/

All done

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to tylerblakebrandon)
Post #: 887
RE: F-86F Sabre - 9/3/2020 12:59:36 PM   
tylerblakebrandon

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 5/11/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Suintila

Could you please update F-86F Sabres in CW database?

-Mount was 1x12.7mm/50 M3 x 6 instead of 2x20mm Mk12 x 2.

-AN/APG-30 range was 3000 yards (not 20nm!). It is a ranging radar.


Thanks


The APG-30 range had been corrected previously but as of CWDB v478 it now has a range of 30nm.

< Message edited by tylerblakebrandon -- 9/3/2020 1:00:03 PM >

(in reply to Suintila)
Post #: 888
RE: F-86F Sabre - 9/3/2020 1:24:10 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: tylerblakebrandon

quote:

ORIGINAL: Suintila

Could you please update F-86F Sabres in CW database?

-Mount was 1x12.7mm/50 M3 x 6 instead of 2x20mm Mk12 x 2.

-AN/APG-30 range was 3000 yards (not 20nm!). It is a ranging radar.


Thanks


The APG-30 range had been corrected previously but as of CWDB v478 it now has a range of 30nm.

Re Fixed

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to tylerblakebrandon)
Post #: 889
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/3/2020 1:37:54 PM   
TheOriginalOverlord

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 6/20/2000
From: The Marines
Status: offline
quote:

SS-2 sibling in CWDB 478..


Think band 1 cruise speed is a typo...shows 200kts This makes it have less range which in game is 296nm or via Wiki its 325nm.

Also I think reload time should be really long as it's basically a V-2 copy. As it is now the 6 launcher battery can fire all 18 missiles in seconds.


Also the AIM-9C no director bug is back as mentioned here:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4150817



Did this get fixed? :)

< Message edited by TheOriginalOverlord -- 9/3/2020 1:38:45 PM >


_____________________________

Semper Fi!

Jeremy


(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 890
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/9/2020 12:24:26 PM   
tylerblakebrandon

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 5/11/2020
Status: offline
I would like to request the Train Based Minuteman ICBM as a hypothetical platform with two variants. December 1960 plan called for 3 planned missile train squadrons, each with 10 trains carrying 3 missiles per train. Later plans called for 600 missiles to be placed in service, 450 in silos and 150 on special trains, each train carrying 5 missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGM-30_Minuteman#:~:text=Mobile%20Minuteman%20was%20a%20program,details%20on%2012%20October%201959.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minuteman_Mobility_Test_Train#:~:text=A%20Minuteman%20Mobility%20Test%20Train,by%20the%20Soviet%20missile%20force.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/minuteman-deployment-concepts.8619/

https://fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/icbm/lgm-30_1.htm

(in reply to TheOriginalOverlord)
Post #: 891
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/13/2020 3:47:05 PM   
VIF2NE

 

Posts: 457
Joined: 7/12/2013
Status: offline
Heli Mi-6

Mi-22
https://naukatehnika.com/shtab-fronta-uxodit-v-nebo-vozdushnyie-komandnyie-punktyi-mil-mi-6a-vkp-mi-6aya-i-mi-27.html

< Message edited by VIF2NE -- 9/13/2020 5:04:15 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to tylerblakebrandon)
Post #: 892
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/17/2020 2:38:01 PM   
jimmyblond

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/13/2015
Status: offline
All versions of the F-105 Thunderchief had just one engine.

(in reply to VIF2NE)
Post #: 893
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/17/2020 3:50:30 PM   
jimmyblond

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/13/2015
Status: offline
There is no comprehensible logic for the ranges of the P-2 Neptune aircraft family. With the exception of the mission type "Maritime Surveillance" all loudouts have a range of 900nm - no matter if the 350 USG Ferry Tank is installed or not.

(in reply to jimmyblond)
Post #: 894
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/17/2020 4:04:14 PM   
jimmyblond

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/13/2015
Status: offline
The altitude Band 3 does not apply to the SP-5 Marlin aircraft family as their service ceiling is only 24000 ft. According to Wikipedia all other performance data is wrong

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_P5M_Marlin

(in reply to jimmyblond)
Post #: 895
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/17/2020 4:19:56 PM   
jimmyblond

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/13/2015
Status: offline
There should be a new runway type in the facilities DB. At least up until the sixties seaplanes and flying boats were common in many navies and air forces around the globe. Even civil airlines used them. So there should be a special seaplane runway. By nature very long, placeable only on water and usable only by seaplanes. Btw please add a seaplane ramp to let us build an appropriate seaplane station. I'm fully aware that this needs some programing in the game. But I thinks it's worth it.

< Message edited by jimmyblond -- 9/17/2020 6:37:47 PM >

(in reply to jimmyblond)
Post #: 896
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/17/2020 5:19:22 PM   
jimmyblond

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 3/13/2015
Status: offline
Facility item #3189 - LRRP/Rangers (Long-Range Recon) Patrol (United States - 1965) is a pure infantry unit. They don't have any vehicles at hand. So a maximum speed of 30 ktn is not appropriate.

To be more precise on this: When I order an Inf unit like e. g. #18 - Inf Sec (Oberservaion Post)(Generic - 0) to move to another location via F3 it accelerates to an acceptable 5 ktn. If I do so with said #3189 it accelerates to a whopping 30 ktn. Both units max speed is given as 30 ktn which maybe is a standard value for all land units speed. But why do they behaive different?

< Message edited by jimmyblond -- 9/17/2020 7:42:45 PM >

(in reply to jimmyblond)
Post #: 897
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/18/2020 12:13:40 PM   
tylerblakebrandon

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 5/11/2020
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Can we get the Fairchild AU-23 Peacemaker COIN version of the PC-7 Pilatus please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_AU-23_Peacemaker

Thailand had 34 of them and they are still flying, the US had some as well for a while.

http://www.roden.eu/HTML/439.html
https://www.shutterstock.com/search/fairchild+au+23+peacemaker

Thanks






To piggyback this request could we also gets it's companion the AU-24 Stallion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helio_AU-24_Stallion

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/au-24.htm

https://www.utdallas.edu/library/specialcollections/hac/cataam/Leeker/aircraft/kau24.pdf

18 production of the production model were built. 14 or 15 of which were transfered to Cambodia in 1972 and
served through 1992.

(in reply to jimmyblond)
Post #: 898
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/18/2020 4:27:19 PM   
Broncepulido

 

Posts: 385
Joined: 9/26/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jimmyblond

All versions of the F-105 Thunderchief had just one engine.

I think you mean just the reverse! (Is surprisingly twin-engined in the DB).

(in reply to jimmyblond)
Post #: 899
RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests - 9/18/2020 5:28:36 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline
Fixed

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to Broncepulido)
Post #: 900
Page:   <<   < prev  28 29 [30] 31 32   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Mods and Scenarios >> RE: Cold War Database 1946-1979 Platform Requests Page: <<   < prev  28 29 [30] 31 32   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

2.438