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RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 4:07:24 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		At some point they MUST have had planes.






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RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 4:11:19 PM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

At some point they MUST have had planes.







Or they came from somewhere else. One of the early FAA fighter units uses Canadian pilots.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


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Post #: 4802
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 4:19:29 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
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quote:

RCAF has only 11 operable fighters in the Pacific (not counting the 4 in the restricted squadrons in British Colombia.





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RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 4:24:47 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Ace of Aces is a Kiwi.






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Post #: 4804
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 4:27:48 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Allied units still alive in Sumatra






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Post #: 4805
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:04:50 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		April and May are kind to the USN carrier fighters. First the F6F in April and then the FM1 production kicks off in May..a total of 160 a month or about 5 per day.

Plus, as you upconvert the the best USN squadrons you have surplus F4F's




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Post #: 4806
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:08:23 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Ditto USN dive bombers, 112 per month of SBD-5 and Helldivers.




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Post #: 4807
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:21:27 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Looks like Mr Chang's place sold. The new owner sent an obsequious letter to the HOA asking for permission to replace dead plants with the same variety. Technically, this is maintenance and so is not required but probably they already gave him a ration of crap about tearing out the old garage door without permission. Welcome to the neighborhood...PAL! As technically is required he sent an approval request to the immediate neighbors.

I wrote back to the HOA approving his plan but noting that as a proponent of the writings of John Locke, I shouldn't have the right to veto where he wants to put some GD plants anyway. What the Hell, they hate me already.

Mr. Chang wanted $6 Million. Lot of money but the place was 10 acres with TWO tennis courts (hard surface AND clay) and a guest house.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4808
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:37:48 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		How many homes have a professional grade clay tennis court? Not very many, I suspect.

Anyway, you should have seen the Mayan tree trimming guy they hired. The guy was maybe 5 3 but pretty thick considering the job. He had a harness but he did not use it until he arrived at his work spot. He was free climbing 40-50 feet up. Then he would harness in with a top rope to a higher branch and drop a line to the assistant and haul up his chain saw. The guy would inch out sideways 4-5 ft on a branch with one hand closer to the trunk...then start the chain saw with his feet and the free hand...then the guy would use the chain saw with ONE HAND extended like an iron cross. Absolutely nuts.

When he got down I pretended to good to the mailbox just to see if he had a tail.

He was also using rope anvil cutter pole about 25 feet long. He's up there in the tree standing with BOTH HANDS on the pole and cutter line with the pole 20+ feet over his head. Essentially, he was using the cutting portion to hook onto a branch and steady himself? Have you ever used one of those things? When you have it that far over your head it's feels like a telephone pole if you get even a little bit off vertical. He did that for at least 6 hrs. Insane.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 9/27/2020 6:45:18 PM >

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Post #: 4809
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:38:25 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

RCAF has had no replacement fighters in the Pacific for several months




I got to meet Len Birchall when I was in Staff School and he came to give his story on leadership. He was awarded the Victoria Cross for his leadership of Allied troops in a Japanese POW camp. Before he arrived, many prisoners gave up hope and let themselves die. Like the Col. in "Bridge on the River Kwai", Birchall took charge of the situation and demanded the Japanese provide things like the Red Cross packages they received for the prisoners. It cost him many beatings, but he kept discipline among the prisoners, insisting that the men get to eat ahead of the officers. When I met him it was 1980 and he still suffered from Beri-beri from the malnutrition in the camp.

He is also known as the "Savior of Ceylon" because it was his PBY that spotted KB approaching Ceylon and radioed the warning before being shot down. A Japanese DD picked him up and delivered him to Kaga where the beatings started. Altogether an impressive man, soft-spoken but with a will of steel that you could see in his eyes.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4810
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:46:27 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

RCAF has had no replacement fighters in the Pacific for several months




I got to meet Len Birchall when I was in Staff School and he came to give his story on leadership. He was awarded the Victoria Cross for his leadership of Allied troops in a Japanese POW camp. Before he arrived, many prisoners gave up hope and let themselves die. Like the Col. in "Bridge on the River Kwai", Birchall took charge of the situation and demanded the Japanese provide things like the Red Cross packages they received for the prisoners. It cost him many beatings, but he kept discipline among the prisoners, insisting that the men get to eat ahead of the officers. When I met him it was 1980 and he still suffered from Beri-beri from the malnutrition in the camp.

He is also known as the "Savior of Ceylon" because it was his PBY that spotted KB approaching Ceylon and radioed the warning before being shot down. A Japanese DD picked him up and delivered him to Kaga where the beatings started. Altogether an impressive man, soft-spoken but with a will of steel that you could see in his eyes.


Wow. That is one Hell of a story!

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 4811
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:47:01 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

RCAF has only 11 operable fighters in the Pacific (not counting the 4 in the restricted squadrons in British Colombia.





In 1943, priority would have been supporting the Canadian Army in the Sicily Campaign and later the Italian Campaign. When Malta was under siege, the top fighter Ace was a Canadian, so there must have been more there gaining experience. Canada's practice was to cycle experienced pilots back to the Commonwealth Air Training Plan squadrons in Canada for a while before redeploying them - that is why their mission and experience stats are often high.

There were also Canadian fighter squadrons in the UK, but I believe the UK provided the fighters - Spits and Hurris mostly.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 4812
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:50:28 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		It's almost as if HE is the model for the Alec Guinness character.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4813
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 6:55:29 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Looks like Mr Chang's place sold. The new owner sent an obsequious letter to the HOA asking for permission to replace dead plants with the same variety. Technically, this is maintenance and so is not required but probably they already gave him a ration of crap about tearing out the old garage door without permission. Welcome to the neighborhood...PAL! As technically is required he sent an approval request to the immediate neighbors.

I wrote back to the HOA approving his plan but noting that as a proponent of the writings of John Locke, I shouldn't have the right to veto where he wants to put some GD plants anyway. What the Hell, they hate me already.

Mr. Chang wanted $6 Million. Lot of money but the place was 10 acres with TWO tennis courts (hard surface AND clay) and a guest house.

So a clay tennis court replaces the giant brick BBQ as the early indicator of divorce? Gives a new meaning to "Tennis, anyone?"

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4814
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 7:00:14 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		There is a Czeck count in the RAF officer database. Count von Czernin as I recall.

He has the highest inspiration level of any officer in the game. Might have been before WITP/AE I had a lot of un with Czerny.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4815
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 7:13:55 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Looks like Mr Chang's place sold. The new owner sent an obsequious letter to the HOA asking for permission to replace dead plants with the same variety. Technically, this is maintenance and so is not required but probably they already gave him a ration of crap about tearing out the old garage door without permission. Welcome to the neighborhood...PAL! As technically is required he sent an approval request to the immediate neighbors.

I wrote back to the HOA approving his plan but noting that as a proponent of the writings of John Locke, I shouldn't have the right to veto where he wants to put some GD plants anyway. What the Hell, they hate me already.

Mr. Chang wanted $6 Million. Lot of money but the place was 10 acres with TWO tennis courts (hard surface AND clay) and a guest house.

So a clay tennis court replaces the giant brick BBQ as the early indicator of divorce? Gives a new meaning to "Tennis, anyone?"


Last time I heard they were still married. Perhaps tennis courts were not a jinx. His wife was very religious but they must have had sex at least twice because they had two kids. Michael and Karl. Michael won the French Open (on a clay court) at like 16 and Karl was his coach.

One time Michael was playing on CBS (I think) and the color announcers were McEnroe and some woman professional who sounded like a man (forget her name). You could tell they hated each other and McEnroe was always giving her ****.

So she tells this story that both kids were great tennis prospects but the family only had enough money for lessons for one son and they picked Michael.

McEnroe laughs out loud on air and asks "Phht...who told you that, Karl?"
What made it so funny was McEnroe's ego was the size of New York. He wasn't going to put up with some woman player who he could beat with his off hand imply that tennis greatness wasn't about talent.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 4816
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/27/2020 11:38:03 PM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Looks like Mr Chang's place sold. The new owner sent an obsequious letter to the HOA asking for permission to replace dead plants with the same variety. Technically, this is maintenance and so is not required but probably they already gave him a ration of crap about tearing out the old garage door without permission. Welcome to the neighborhood...PAL! As technically is required he sent an approval request to the immediate neighbors.

I wrote back to the HOA approving his plan but noting that as a proponent of the writings of John Locke, I shouldn't have the right to veto where he wants to put some GD plants anyway. What the Hell, they hate me already.

Mr. Chang wanted $6 Million. Lot of money but the place was 10 acres with TWO tennis courts (hard surface AND clay) and a guest house.


HOA's are evil. At least yours isn't as bad as this one.They blew $300,000 and still lost in court.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkRHWQocDLA

_____________________________

There is no point in believing in things that exist. -Didactylos

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4817
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 12:04:31 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Looks like Mr Chang's place sold. The new owner sent an obsequious letter to the HOA asking for permission to replace dead plants with the same variety. Technically, this is maintenance and so is not required but probably they already gave him a ration of crap about tearing out the old garage door without permission. Welcome to the neighborhood...PAL! As technically is required he sent an approval request to the immediate neighbors.

I wrote back to the HOA approving his plan but noting that as a proponent of the writings of John Locke, I shouldn't have the right to veto where he wants to put some GD plants anyway. What the Hell, they hate me already.

Mr. Chang wanted $6 Million. Lot of money but the place was 10 acres with TWO tennis courts (hard surface AND clay) and a guest house.


HOA's are evil. At least yours isn't as bad as this one.They blew $300,000 and still lost in court.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkRHWQocDLA


That case shows why the losing side should pay the winning sides reasonable attorney's fees and court costs.

I wonder what would happen if someone rewrote the bill of sale and deed to eliminate any membership in the HOA. That would be interesting.

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Disco Duck)
Post #: 4818
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 12:34:10 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

San Francisco, Cape Town, Sydney, the East Coast, the UK.


Thx..Sydney OK for USN too?



Everything you wanted to know about ship withdrawal but were afraid to ask is covered in post #14 of this Dec 2017 thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4404294&mpage=1&key=withdrawal�

Enemy presence is commonly overlooked as the reason why a ship can't be withdrawn.

Alfred

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4819
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 1:32:06 AM   
RangerJoe


Posts: 13450
Joined: 11/16/2015
From: My Mother, although my Father had some small part.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

San Francisco, Cape Town, Sydney, the East Coast, the UK.


Thx..Sydney OK for USN too?



Everything you wanted to know about ship withdrawal but were afraid to ask is covered in post #14 of this Dec 2017 thread:

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4404294&mpage=1&key=withdrawal�

Enemy presence is commonly overlooked as the reason why a ship can't be withdrawn.

Alfred


Alfred

Thank you.

Joe

_____________________________

Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing!

“Illegitemus non carborundum est (“Don’t let the bastards grind you down”).”
― Julia Child


(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 4820
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 3:04:10 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Thanks Alfred. I wonder if Japanese possession of Lord Howe Island will kaibash withdrawal from Sydney

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Post #: 4821
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 4:11:35 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Thanks Alfred. I wonder if Japanese possession of Lord Howe Island will kaibash withdrawal from Sydney


Lord Howe is 11 hexes from Sydney so the LYB can stuff the island with as many units they want and it won't affect Sydney as a valid withdrawal port. However, if Milo decides to make an offshore trade transaction to sell sushi to a waiting LYB tuna boat in international waters to the west of Lord Howe Island, then the tuna boat will be 10 or fewer hexes from Sydney, and that would temporarily invalidate Sydney as a withdrawal port. Other than an enemy submarine, all other LYB units (LCU, air, surface ships) located within 10 hexes invalidate that Allied port as a withdrawal port.

Alfred

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4822
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 1:21:37 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Thanks Alfred. I wonder if Japanese possession of Lord Howe Island will kaibash withdrawal from Sydney


Lord Howe is 11 hexes from Sydney so the LYB can stuff the island with as many units they want and it won't affect Sydney as a valid withdrawal port. However, if Milo decides to make an offshore trade transaction to sell sushi to a waiting LYB tuna boat in international waters to the west of Lord Howe Island, then the tuna boat will be 10 or fewer hexes from Sydney, and that would temporarily invalidate Sydney as a withdrawal port. Other than an enemy submarine, all other LYB units (LCU, air, surface ships) located within 10 hexes invalidate that Allied port as a withdrawal port.

Alfred


Ah, splendid! So Cpt Ito can't cause trouble. Sydney was pretty much surrounded earlier in WWII(e) but the intel guys say no more LYB's around Sydney (other than Lord Howe and Tasmania)

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 4823
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 1:24:00 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		So we have just learned (because it ISN'T in the manual) that Sydney should work so we don't have to send a worthless S-boat all the way back to SF so that it can be cut in half and turned into a diner

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4824
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/28/2020 2:04:51 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

So we have just learned (because it ISN'T in the manual) that Sydney should work so we don't have to send a worthless S-boat all the way back to SF so that it can be cut in half and turned into a diner


You can thank Don Bowen for those additional details not provided in the manual. Seems that coders jealously safeguard the fine print from manual writers.

Alfred

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4825
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/29/2020 1:58:39 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

So we have just learned (because it ISN'T in the manual) that Sydney should work so we don't have to send a worthless S-boat all the way back to SF so that it can be cut in half and turned into a diner


You can thank Don Bowen for those additional details not provided in the manual. Seems that coders jealously safeguard the fine print from manual writers.

Alfred



Fog of Wargame

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 4826
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/29/2020 3:29:19 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

So we have just learned (because it ISN'T in the manual) that Sydney should work so we don't have to send a worthless S-boat all the way back to SF so that it can be cut in half and turned into a diner


You can thank Don Bowen for those additional details not provided in the manual. Seems that coders jealously safeguard the fine print from manual writers.

Alfred



Fog of Wargame

Great turn of phrase, Cap. That frames it perfectly.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4827
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/29/2020 3:47:23 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

So we have just learned (because it ISN'T in the manual)


Obviously this a troll an imposter...the real Cap Mandrake couldn't make this claim.


(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4828
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/29/2020 11:49:15 PM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

How many homes have a professional grade clay tennis court? Not very many, I suspect.

Anyway, you should have seen the Mayan tree trimming guy they hired. The guy was maybe 5 3 but pretty thick considering the job. He had a harness but he did not use it until he arrived at his work spot. He was free climbing 40-50 feet up. Then he would harness in with a top rope to a higher branch and drop a line to the assistant and haul up his chain saw. The guy would inch out sideways 4-5 ft on a branch with one hand closer to the trunk...then start the chain saw with his feet and the free hand...then the guy would use the chain saw with ONE HAND extended like an iron cross. Absolutely nuts.

When he got down I pretended to good to the mailbox just to see if he had a tail.

He was also using rope anvil cutter pole about 25 feet long. He's up there in the tree standing with BOTH HANDS on the pole and cutter line with the pole 20+ feet over his head. Essentially, he was using the cutting portion to hook onto a branch and steady himself? Have you ever used one of those things? When you have it that far over your head it's feels like a telephone pole if you get even a little bit off vertical. He did that for at least 6 hrs. Insane.


He sounds a little smarter than this guy https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9aJhA_1601161411

_____________________________

There is no point in believing in things that exist. -Didactylos

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 4829
RE: At dawn we slept.....in the cab on the way back fro... - 9/30/2020 12:10:24 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

How many homes have a professional grade clay tennis court? Not very many, I suspect.

Anyway, you should have seen the Mayan tree trimming guy they hired. The guy was maybe 5 3 but pretty thick considering the job. He had a harness but he did not use it until he arrived at his work spot. He was free climbing 40-50 feet up. Then he would harness in with a top rope to a higher branch and drop a line to the assistant and haul up his chain saw. The guy would inch out sideways 4-5 ft on a branch with one hand closer to the trunk...then start the chain saw with his feet and the free hand...then the guy would use the chain saw with ONE HAND extended like an iron cross. Absolutely nuts.

When he got down I pretended to good to the mailbox just to see if he had a tail.

He was also using rope anvil cutter pole about 25 feet long. He's up there in the tree standing with BOTH HANDS on the pole and cutter line with the pole 20+ feet over his head. Essentially, he was using the cutting portion to hook onto a branch and steady himself? Have you ever used one of those things? When you have it that far over your head it's feels like a telephone pole if you get even a little bit off vertical. He did that for at least 6 hrs. Insane.


He sounds a little smarter than this guy https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9aJhA_1601161411


WHAT??? He built himself a siege catapult and he was the warhead.

The chainsaw is idling while he is oscillating back and forth. The videographer says a Spanish word you can't type in Engarish on this forum


< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 9/30/2020 12:22:02 AM >

(in reply to Disco Duck)
Post #: 4830
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