RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage"

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/6/2020 7:38:16 PM

Lukew

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I hope to have some time to test this over the weekend. Having looked at this in the editor mode I think China should have at least a few more aircraft regiments for when this turns into a hot war plus several more SAGs and submarines harassing and eventually attacking Western forces. Adding a side for Vietnam with the potential for a Sino - Vietnamese clash over the Spratley Islands and Paracel Islands creating an escalation in the conflict might very well be worthy of consideration. More commercial shipping on the trade routes would be good (I suggest several large oil tankers and a variety of other commercial shipping using the trade routes.

I would eventually like to see this developing into a multi day scenario (say 2 - 3 days Simulating the opening phase of a major Pacific Rim conflict. At some point for example China might deliberately escalate through attacking the merchant shipping routes particularly using air and submarine assets.

For now continue to develop this from the UK perspective but, at a later stage, this one might be made playable to other sides eg US, China etc. You may want to bear this in mind over the longer term. Something like this might be a great DLC or equivalent

(in reply to magi)

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/7/2020 6:11:16 AM

.Sirius

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Hi thanks for the review, I have already added Vietnam in the build I have at the moment,increased PLAAF Regiments and PLAN Task Groups and Submarine, next build will be released this Monday and Tuesday.

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 32

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/7/2020 11:20:14 AM

Lukew

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Sounds great Paul. Incremental development allows for incremental testing. As touched on earlier it would be good to have multi side options with this allowing the player to game the scenario from differing perspectives. For example the initial mission for the Japanese 1st Escort Group might be twofold. Firstly they are officially on maritime exercises but (less officially) they are tracking the Chinese carrier group and other PLAN units that may be in the area passing on intel as required. As hostilities open Tokyo will make a decision regarding Japanese reactions. The Reagan CVBG group might have a very different initial mission. Perhaps they are officially simply passing through the SCS region, monitoring PLAN activities passing intel to certain parties but not to others. As the situation develops into hostilities they may move to limited involvement in support of the UK, Vietnam or the Asian states but not necessarily to everyone and not necessarily simultaneously. We could here be simulating political vacillation by a new Biden administration leery of involvement in an escalating Pacific Rim Crisis/war.

Additional non player sides might be added such as Brunei and Indonesia may be added. These might have an interest in the developing conflict and may (or may not) become involved depending on developments. Indonesia has a dispute with China over the Natuna Islands. Brunei has a claim to Louisa Reef China should perhaps have more capability around the Spratly Islands and perhaps a plan to seize all or part of them - I am taking some inspiration from 'Humphrey Hawksley's Dragon Strike which you may have read :-)

https://www.humphreyhawksley.com/book/dragon-strike/

One might also consider variance in available units and dispositions for uncertainty and replay value

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/7/2020 12:54:48 PM

Lukew

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A quick addendum to my previous message. You might consider adding a US Marine force tasked with their own humanitarian mission to assist with the Hong Kong evacuation but there is also a medical emergency in Vietnam (a virulent and lethal new Covid strain causing hospitals to overflow. This will require the US and perhaps the international force assisting with Hong Kong to divert resources to assist with this new humanitarian crisis. These could later be caught up in combat between China and Vietnam causing escalation in the international military crisis developing in the SCS. Note in the briefing about the medical crisis in Vietnam followed by a Reuters News Flash message triggering appropriate messages to those needing to know/ Points deducted for failure to supply timely medical aid as the Covid crisis in Vietnam escalates.....

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Post #: 34

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/7/2020 5:36:56 PM

Lukew

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Couple of points to note

1 The Song Class sub placed near the QE CVBG fired torpedoes at the battlegroup shortly after the warning message from Northwood/ Since that was definitely an Act of War I regarded that as very sound justification for marking it as hostile - the Chinese initiated hostilities by firing torpedoes at my carrier group Britain is now at war with China. For this situation there may need to be a response from London and from allies including the US. Similarly they should react in some way, militarily or politically, to the outbreak of hostilities. Such responses might vary considering the new Democrat Administration which may very well be leery of getting involved with hostilities and the resulting wariness of regional allies to become involved in hostilities. A variety of messages and actions might reflect this with some governments waiting for a US lead which will be slower in coming. Until something happens to drag the US into war....

2 I noticed that you have introduced satellites into the scenario but somehow you have managed to get a phalanx of no less than eight (Chinese Yaogan satellites operating together! Which I don't think was your intention!

[image]

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Post #: 35

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/7/2020 9:19:48 PM

.Sirius

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Hi all noted, the Song going Hot early was an error on my part the ASW Missions for UK had weapons free, all the other points are noted

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 36

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/8/2020 9:53:15 AM

Lukew

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Note that it was the Chinese Song that fired first. I had detected it near the carrier group earlier and had a couple of helicopters prosecuting the contact as a threat to the carrier group. In the real world one could rationalize this by arguing that the Son Captain felt extremely threatened, panicked, jumped he gun and opened fire.

Actually the possibility of an over zealous commander (in this case the captain of the Song) jumping the gun is not such a bad idea. Wars can start by mistake in a very tense political and military crisis with major forces maneuvering in close proximity. I call it "The Camlann Effect" after the final battle of Arthurian legend. However, it might be advisable to limit the effect by making this possible rogue sub a side of its' own or making this so with selected Chinese subs. This way we still get the idea of a major escalation without necessarily precipitating all out war. A subsequent series of messages and instructions might reflect a confused political response to this incident. The Chinese then use this as a justification for readying their DF-21 attack and other actions indicating military preparations for war. The Allied side now have greater political justification for the pre-emptive strike on Woody Island. However, the question for historians might be did WW3 start over a deliberate Chinese provocation (the plan to attack the QE CVBG was always intended) or did someone miscalculate precipitating a war by mistake? The scenario does not have to provide an answer to this question but it should encourage thought about such issues.

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Post #: 37

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/9/2020 4:36:27 AM

magi

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well.... ive been switching sides modifying their missions..... i started engaging any Chinese units assets that posed an immediate potential threat.... but now ive gone musashi and attacking anything of theirs....
i did lose an f35 being stupid.... very annoying..... the chinese response to my actions have been under whelming...... but im having fun.....

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Post #: 38

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/9/2020 10:04:57 AM

Lukew

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Launched an airstrike on the Chinese Carrier Group. 3 F-35s shot down. Considerable air losses have been inflicted on the Chinese Carrier Group air wing but damage on the escort ships is unknown at this time. The British may be able to claim some minor success on these criteria There seems to be a Chinese sub in the Banares Straits which fired two volleys of vampires at the carrier group, sinking HMS Northumberland and doing minor damage to Queen Elizabeth. The submarine and the missiles were not identified. The Queen Elizabeth group is pulling back while HMS Audacious moves into position. This first major action might therefore be regarded as more of a draw. The plan now is to try to draw the Chinese Carrier onto HMS Audacious

There have been no Chinese air attacks from the mainland as yet but this may change later. Chinese actions still seem quite limited for now though but I suspect escalation is probable at this stage.

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Post #: 39

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/9/2020 11:20:33 AM

.Sirius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lukew

Launched an airstrike on the Chinese Carrier Group. 3 F-35s shot down. Considerable air losses have been inflicted on the Chinese Carrier Group air wing but damage on the escort ships is unknown at this time. The British may be able to claim some minor success on these criteria There seems to be a Chinese sub in the Banares Straits which fired two volleys of vampires at the carrier group, sinking HMS Northumberland and doing minor damage to Queen Elizabeth. The submarine and the missiles were not identified. The Queen Elizabeth group is pulling back while HMS Audacious moves into position. This first major action might therefore be regarded as more of a draw. The plan now is to try to draw the Chinese Carrier onto HMS Audacious

There have been no Chinese air attacks from the mainland as yet but this may change later. Chinese actions still seem quite limited for now though but I suspect escalation is probable at this stage.

In the middle of updating and yes it does begin to warm up , PLAAF response is via Event timings with H-6 and carrier strike AC

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 40

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/9/2020 2:30:11 PM

Lukew

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In my case I expect any incoming Chinese carrier strike to be somewhat weakened. Re earlier message details re HMS Northumberland incorrect due to a saving error. New missile attack results hits to USS Sullivans resulted in 98% damage, flooding and fire. No damage to QE. Weapons non operational. Otherwise QE group acting as previously stated.

It would be great to play this scenario from other perspectives in due course, perhaps starting with the Reagan Carrier Group tasked with possible missions such as supporting |Vietnam (initially the humanitarian aid I mentioned, then later possible missions including actions in the Spratly Islands, strikes on Hainan and Woody Island and action against the other Chinese carrier group.

I am not finding that the possible premature torpedo attack by the Song has spoiled things too much though it might have resulted in wrecking the Chinese plans. However such things happen in war resulting in situations differing from the original plans so perhaps leave the option in but consider reducing the likely impact by making some Chinese submarines their own side (or just the Song to represent a rogue commander) resuylting in an escalation but not yet open war

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Post #: 41

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/9/2020 2:57:36 PM

.Sirius

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Hi

Should have a new update out latestWedmesday,as constantly updating and testing,had the odd DF-21 launch due to forgeting to making inactive etc, I have added a Taiwan TG based around a Kidd Class DDG, extra Malaysian platforms including PMGs and F-16. On the Chinese side added extra Task Groups, Submarines with additional air support also added afew more DF-21 sites.
.Vietnam Forces strengthened with afew regs of Su-22 and Migs,with Submarines and surface platforms,added Guam with U-2 Recon Birds and a detachment B-52's, given the lone LCS patrol area adjacent to Woody Island, added COMAIR and additional Merchant Shipping.

Added News reports to take into account attacks against Merchant Shipping and COMAIR.

X

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 42

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/10/2020 9:42:28 AM

Lukew

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Another idea crossed my mind last night. Early in the scenario I tend to fly recon missions in the direction of the Chinese carrier group. Given the circumstances of the scenario the Chinese would likely have some objections to this. If you were to set up an exclusion zone around the Chinese Carrier groups with suitable messages which will be sent should British units violate this zone. After three such messages China will regard Britain as "unfriendly" and this will trigger a points deduction to represent diplomatic fallout (China will claim response is a defensive measure against "British Imperialist Aggression") Further violations will cause China to turn hostile with a significant points deduction to the Allied side as China blames "Western Imperialist Aggression") Provide an appropriate briefing warning about this representing London's diplomatic caution. This should make the British careful about getting too close to the Chinese, thereby limiting effectiveness of reconnaissance prior to hostilities.

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/10/2020 6:11:05 PM

Parel803

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Sounds great, gonna try it out. Seeing one of the ships I served on :-) Much bigger than operation Grapple :-)
with regards GJ

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/10/2020 6:56:07 PM

.Sirius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Parel803

Sounds great, gonna try it out. Seeing one of the ships I served on :-) Much bigger than operation Grapple :-)
with regards GJ

Hi I take it that's the Everston

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/10/2020 7:12:56 PM

Parel803

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Evertsen indeed :-)

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/11/2020 11:40:39 AM

.Sirius

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Hi Guys
Scenario updated and uploaded

Done alot of changes

1. Reagan CVBG and Japanese Task Group and US Forces now on UK and Coalition side as well as Guam Air Base.

2. Added additional Chinese Forces.

3. Added Additional Malaysian and Singarpore units.

4. COMAIR and Merchant Ship traffic added.

5. Added News reports and other bits to many to mention but you will find out !

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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Post #: 47

RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/11/2020 8:54:24 PM

.Sirius

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Reloaded scenario as had gods eye view on

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/12/2020 10:23:18 AM

Lukew

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Looks much improved. One other possibility to contemplate at this point - use realistic sub comms

Also, if there is no possibility for this scenario to go nuclear then it might be best to disable the option :-)

That said perhaps the Doctor Strangeloves among us would appreciate an unlikely nuclear variant. I have never tried nuking a carrier battlegroup....

< Message edited by Lukew -- 11/12/2020 10:36:56 AM >

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/12/2020 10:51:02 AM

.Sirius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lukew

Looks much improved. One other possibility to contemplate at this point - use realistic sub comms Also, if there is no possibility for this scenario to go nuclear then it might be best to disable the option :-)

That said perhaps the Doctor Strangeloves among us would appreciate an unlikely nuclear variant. I have never tried nuking a carrier battlegroup....

I have

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/12/2020 3:49:20 PM

Lukew

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I can claim responsibility for nuking Damascus in one of the Northern Fury (Mediterranean) scenarios once just because I had not used nukes before in this game. I suddenly noticed that the nuclear option had become available and I just wanted to see what happened.

Seriously though I find it hard to see this scenario going nuclear so quickly so it might be an idea to disable the option in order to avoid disappointing Major Kong

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/12/2020 4:51:38 PM

.Sirius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lukew

I can claim responsibility for nuking Damascus in one of the Northern Fury (Mediterranean) scenarios once just because I had not used nukes before in this game. I suddenly noticed that the nuclear option had become available and I just wanted to see what happened.

Seriously though I find it hard to see this scenario going nuclear so quickly so it might be an idea to disable the option in order to avoid disappointing Major Kong

I think I flipped the wrong switch on that one

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/12/2020 6:03:56 PM

Lukew

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When you have control of nuclear weapons flipping the wrong switch is a very sub optimal idea. Unless you actually wanted to make this a nuclear scenario (which I think would kind of ruin it)

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/13/2020 4:11:51 PM

Lukew

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A nasty, evil idea for the Chinese. They secretly convert a number of oil tankers or large container ships into floating missile batteries which they plan to use in co-ordination to or with the DF-21 missile attacks (suggest the Chinese plan a coordinated attack on the carrier groups_ If you add some additional large oil tankers to the merchant shipping the merchant raiders can use them as cover.

Also we need severe points penalties for the Allied side if they should hit neutral shipping or aircraft (bigger point penalties for something high value like a big oil tanker or passenger jet. Also a big penalty if an Allied commander should initiate hostilities before authorization. Finally, a big points penalty for US warship or carrier damage or sinking. Also for ships in the Queen Elizabeth Group.

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/14/2020 10:45:47 PM

schweggy

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I started this scenario about 3 days ago. I've only been able to spend a couple of hours on it as real life issues surfaced. I note a couple of things, not complaints by any means.

- The multi-national force off Hong Kong was able to retrieve the consultant helicopter but was engaged by what I believe were DF-21's from Hainan Island shortly thereafter. I lost several ships and others damaged and now ineffective for the duration of the scenario. This seems a little aggressive, but if planned, fine. I should be able to go after the launchers as they're considered "hostile" at the start of the scenario.
- Shortly after this incident non-player units that I've yet to ID instigated an attack on the Chinese somewhere in or around the Spratlys. China is now hostile to everyone the UK/Allies side is associated with. A pop-up message might be appropriate if this is WAD.
- There probably should be a couple more US/UK player controlled subs. Having only 2 seems weak.
- There are two events you might want to look at; "UK & Coalition Support Aircraft Destroyed" and "UK & Coalition Aircraft Destroyed" Both fired when a Wedgetail went down.
- I have no idea how to resolve this particular grip... it occurs in many scenarios with multiple sides and alliances. What to do with the constant stream of "new contact" messages from every unit that is allied with me. It gets to be so annoying I turn those triggers off. Probably shouldn't, but it's insane at times.

It has the makings for a really good scenario.

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/15/2020 6:46:54 AM

.Sirius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: schweggy

I started this scenario about 3 days ago. I've only been able to spend a couple of hours on it as real life issues surfaced. I note a couple of things, not complaints by any means.

- The multi-national force off Hong Kong was able to retrieve the consultant helicopter but was engaged by what I believe were DF-21's from Hainan Island shortly thereafter. I lost several ships and others damaged and now ineffective for the duration of the scenario. This seems a little aggressive, but if planned, fine. I should be able to go after the launchers as they're considered "hostile" at the start of the scenario.
- Shortly after this incident non-player units that I've yet to ID instigated an attack on the Chinese somewhere in or around the Spratlys. China is now hostile to everyone the UK/Allies side is associated with. A pop-up message might be appropriate if this is WAD.
- There probably should be a couple more US/UK player controlled subs. Having only 2 seems weak.
- There are two events you might want to look at; "UK & Coalition Support Aircraft Destroyed" and "UK & Coalition Aircraft Destroyed" Both fired when a Wedgetail went down.
- I have no idea how to resolve this particular grip... it occurs in many scenarios with multiple sides and alliances. What to do with the constant stream of "new contact" messages from every unit that is allied with me. It gets to be so annoying I turn those triggers off. Probably shouldn't, but it's insane at times.

It has the makings for a really good scenario.

All your points and other previous comments noted, I will be pushing out an update before Wednesday

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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/15/2020 2:29:36 PM

Parel803

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Nice now to try finding more time to play it longer. Specially love the ROE's (although there always a pain, just like intent/act and PPI's :-) ).
No big thing but a few typo's in the Side Briefing:
- Situation: Spratley might be Spratly Island
- Orders & conduct of ops: p2 nght & spratley
p4 Singarpore & afew & spratley
p6 USS Gabrielle Gifords
- Order of battle: not sure but does an element needs an extra .xx? 544.01.01.01 for HMS Audacious
- HMS QE CAG: 815 sqn Widcat HMA.2
- TU 544.01.04 HMNZS Canerbury
- SG7: USS New Oleans

No realistic Sub comms?

with regards GJ
Apologize if I double something

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/15/2020 3:17:38 PM

.Sirius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Parel803

Nice now to try finding more time to play it longer. Specially love the ROE's (although there always a pain, just like intent/act and PPI's :-) ).
No big thing but a few typo's in the Side Briefing:
- Situation: Spratley might be Spratly Island
- Orders & conduct of ops: p2 nght & spratley
p4 Singarpore & afew & spratley
p6 USS Gabrielle Gifords
- Order of battle: not sure but does an element needs an extra .xx? 544.01.01.01 for HMS Audacious
- HMS QE CAG: 815 sqn Widcat HMA.2
- TU 544.01.04 HMNZS Canerbury
- SG7: USS New Oleans

No realistic Sub comms?

with regards GJ
Apologize if I double something

All points noted

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
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Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/15/2020 4:16:45 PM

Lukew

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Looking at unit quality I am thinking that veteran is overblowing the PLAN. I suggest downgrading them to regular or trained for the coast guard units. Perhaps also consider varying quality of individual crews and aircraft to account for a few rookie pilots, an occasional ace pilot or very good ship captain.

Also consider the possibility of occasional systems malfunction particularly for nations like the Philippines but possible for first line navies as well.

Possibly some variance in deployment for scenario variety.

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RE: New Scenario for Testing "Right of Passage" - 11/15/2020 5:38:55 PM

goldfinger35

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This scenario sounds promising, Sirius.
I didn't have time to test it yes but I hope you will add resupply tasks and CSAR script for downed pilots; it really adds a lot to the mission.
Also, if you can please add a timer/alarm script in special actions (to add a custom reminder note at xy hours) - very useful for large scenarios

(in reply to magi)

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