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RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/11/2004 12:03:36 PM   
Jane Doe

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ratster

Multi level games do exist, so they can work. The Total War series is a good example. Star General or the Cosmic Balance II are good examples of what happens when it all goes wrong.


Never played any of these games. Are they old?

Anyway, to paint a big picture, what i want is a multi level operational-tactical game set in WWII where your skill as a tactician could influence your operational planning. The way i grasp it is a phase-based operational game (like v for victory) coupled with any kind of tactical element game, whether it's like Combat mission or Squad Battles or Steel Panthers, etc.
This is what Matrix should do next!

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Post #: 31
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/11/2004 7:04:21 PM   
ratster

 

Posts: 166
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: PA
Status: offline 		The Total War series is out now, but its not WWII era (medieval Japan, Europe). You manuever units on a strategic level, then when they meet you fight a tactical battle.

Star general was one of the original General series (Panzer General, Allied General, Fantasy General, Star General, Pacific General) It differed from the others in that there was a strategic element, (moving your guys around in space) then when you assaulted a planet you would fight a battle on the planets surface with 10 "tactical" turns for every 1 strategic turn . It suffered from bugs, really, really bad AI, etc.

Cosmic balance II is pretty old, 8-bit Atari. It was a follow on to Cosmic Balance which was a tactical ship to ship space combat game, like the board game Star Fleet Battles. Anyway CBII added a strategic layer, and nothing else, it was really poor, but you could exit it and fight the battles(when your ships met on the strategic map) using Cosmic Battles.

There's a lot of games that were great on the 8-bit that have never been remade....

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Post #: 32
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/11/2004 9:36:13 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		Not sure about Total War personally. Shogun was OK, but I must admit the "strategic" element of Medieval bored me to tears... although the game was well worth the money just for the MP battles.

No reason why multi-level couldn't work, though. Generally attempts have failed because they have just been too ambitious - to get it right you really are talking the development time and costs of two games. That's fine, if your sales are double too - but would they be ?

(in reply to ratster)
Post #: 33
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/11/2004 10:33:46 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		My two major itches - Civil War Strategic and WWII strategic - are both being well scratched by Matrix at the moment so I won't push my luck :)

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Post #: 34
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/12/2004 1:09:55 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		Time factor, how old are you, how old do you wish to be when you complete a single game :)

Ok I love Steel Panthers as played via a Mega Campaign.

I was part of the test team, so I played the entire thing near 4 times. Did that over a few months time. Thats a lot of Steel Panthers eh heheh.

Now lets see, that was one formation's fighting over about 1.5 years of combat history at most.

Now to take and fight an entire theater out both at the strategic level, as well as the tactical, hmmmm.

IF you can get someone to design it, and IF you can get someone to actually buy it, you still need the TIME to play it.
As it stands, most games at the higher decision level are either quick and easy as is the case with Strategic Command, or incredibly indepth as in The Operational Art of War series.
To take either of those games, and attempt to game out individual battles that result, at the tactical level, would result in exceedingly lengthy time frames of actual gamer expenditure.

Now granted, the player would not need to fight out each battle, but how would you choose?

This approach though, won't fly in human vs human. Player A wants to game out in detail battle number 1, but player B just wants it resolved.
Can you imagine being the allied player in an attack by Germany on Poland in 39? Oh joy oh bliss, he wants to do each battle. But the moment the allied player is able to do the defense of France, oh nah I would rather just quick resolve those ones.

Won't work.

Tactical games are fun just as strategic games are fun. But a person shouldn't have to ponder how many actual years it will take to finish the game.

< Message edited by Les_the_Sarge_9_1 -- 2/11/2004 6:10:46 PM >

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Post #: 35
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/17/2004 4:35:40 AM   
John David


Posts: 373
Joined: 3/21/2002
From: Montreal, Quebec
Status: offline 		I really like the Mega Campaign style of add on's to existing games. SPWAW is and always will be my favorite,(too much history dating back to the original SP ) so any addition in this vain to other Matrix games is always welcome.

Wanted to see something like MC's for Uncommon Valor, but that's what War in the Pacific is for. Man, I can't wait for that one!

Finaly, just to echo what Sarge said in an earlier post, it's best for all of us to speak with our wallets. i too want to see Matrix Games alive and well for many years to come, and only we can make that happen!

JD

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Post #: 36
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/17/2004 7:41:59 AM   
Fred98


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From: Wollondilly, Sydney
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jane Doe

The way i grasp it is a phase-based operational game (like v for victory) coupled with any kind of tactical element game, whether it's like Combat mission or Squad Battles or Steel Panthers, etc.
This is what Matrix should do next!


This has already been done. Close Combat 4 was released in November 1999 and Close Combat 5 was released in December 2000

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Post #: 37
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/29/2004 5:36:08 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		I like the idea of a strategic campaign and a tactical battle for control like the Total War Engine. But, for a wargame based on the Civil War, Napolean, or WWI or WWII, a hex by hex battle system would take a long time. Perhaps if it were provincial like MTW, it wouldn't take as long. But, then again it wouldn't be as realistic either I don't think. Then again neither was MTW! lol As much fun as I have with MTW, I see it more as a tactical game of RISK medieval style. Which was quite fun, but, far from realistic when my Dane conquered the world. ;)

I'm going to be anxious to see how they do this in Rome:TW, since it is going to have over 10,000 squares, each representing an actual battlefield, if/when two forces collied. Somewhere in that game, if what I foresee is correct, once a player has masses of armies on the map, a game turn is going to take a day at least to play out all the tactical battles. On the bright side that will be fun. On the dark side, it will only be fun for awhile before it turns into tedium I think. Once you've seen a few flaming pigs running around and getting stomped by elephants for the umteenth time and crushed the same looking walls of a city for the 1000senth time, I think that game is going to get a lil old. ;) But, it's still on my game buying list for this year. It and Realms III are all I have down at the moment. Man I wish some companies would get off the RTS and FPS wagon and get back down to good old fashioned strategy gaming. Hint Hint Hint Maxtrix....and by that I mean get away from the RUSSIAN FRONT and OPERATION MARKET GARDEN....how in the world you could hit on the two most unimportant parts of WWII to me, I'll never know! LOL, ok so I'm picky and selfish, I want American/British/French/Canadian/Australian/Japanese/German/Polish Troups and I want AFRICA KORP and WESTERN EUROPE and the PACIFIC! ;) The Eastern front is sooooooo boring...to me. ;)

< Message edited by ravinhood -- 2/29/2004 10:43:27 AM >

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 38
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/29/2004 6:35:00 PM   
Firefly

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston

Not sure about Total War personally. Shogun was OK, but I must admit the "strategic" element of Medieval bored me to tears... although the game was well worth the money just for the MP battles.



I didn't try Medieval:TW, because of the poor campaign in Shogun, which wasn't helped by the AI 'cheating' and too many battles where you lost because your 10,000 man army couldn't find the opposing 300 men in the fog before time ran out. The 'historical' battles were OK, but someone who knows more about Japanese history than I pointed out that they wren't that historical. I might give the gold edition of Medieval a go when the price drops.

As for Matrix I'd settle for a UK release of HTTR .

< Message edited by Firefly -- 2/29/2004 4:40:14 PM >

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Post #: 39
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 2/29/2004 10:03:48 PM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		After completion of the Combat Leader series (I must have modern stuff) I think it would be good to do a Civil War series, World War One series, and a Naval Battle series where you control the ships in a manner similar to Steel Panthers

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Post #: 40
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/1/2004 11:09:46 PM   
Draken35


Posts: 9
Joined: 2/28/2004
Status: offline 		What I want is modern modules for Combat Leader. So, first I want Combat Leader, and then All those Abrahms, Merkava, T80, Scorpions, Scimitars, AMX, Leclerc, etc...

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Post #: 41
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/2/2004 1:51:23 AM   
Von Rom


Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline 		Some great suggestions by everyone.

What I would like to see:

1) Mediterranean/North African operational/tactical game.

2) Strategic Civil War game with all the "trimmings" (economics/research/recruitment/morale, etc)

3) A new version of "Carrier Strike".

Cheers!

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Post #: 42
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/2/2004 4:06:12 AM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		see my game idea post.

I think it has potential.

The Sims in WW1!

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Post #: 43
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/4/2004 1:12:18 PM   
Huguderian

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Portugal
Status: offline 		Hi,

I sugest extend the UV style game to say: WWI West; WWI East; WWI Balcans or even a UV-Franco-Prussian WAR

Keep up the good work!

(in reply to madflava13)
Post #: 44
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/4/2004 4:08:22 PM   
SwampYankee68


Posts: 1186
Joined: 5/8/2002
From: Connecticut, U.S.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Draken35

What I want is modern modules for Combat Leader. So, first I want Combat Leader, and then All those Abrahms, Merkava, T80, Scorpions, Scimitars, AMX, Leclerc, etc...



Hear, hear!!!

I would also like to see a remake of "Carriers at War", and of "The 5th Fleet" and "Gulf Strike"

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Post #: 45
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/4/2004 5:02:17 PM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline 		In keeping with my current policy, I could care less what else Matrix Games is capable of. I want Combat Leader.

And I will tell ya why. Because I already have a lot of cool wargames that model warfare in sooooo many ways.

Combat Leader will be like mega Steel Panthers, and as Steel Panthers is about the only thing I really give a damn about most days, it stands to reason I will want something that is better than Steel Panthers, before I want anything else.

And besides, I personally think Matrix Games could use the cash I think it would generate.

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 46
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/7/2004 8:58:38 PM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		A definitive modern naval warfare game - Cold War included. Dammit!

< Message edited by NefariousKoel -- 3/7/2004 12:55:38 PM >

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Post #: 47
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/8/2004 12:53:35 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		JUTLAND!

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Post #: 48
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/8/2004 10:51:56 AM   
panzcaster


Posts: 7
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: INDIANAPOLIS
Status: offline 		I'm looking forward to Gary Grisbies " World at War ". I think this might just be the one I have been waiting for.

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Post #: 49
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/9/2004 11:20:19 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		War In Europe - Struggle Against Germany 1939 - 1945

That would be truely awesome; or better yet (yes I'm insane):

World War 2 - Struggle Against the Axis 1939 - 1945

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Post #: 50
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/10/2004 1:45:48 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Always wanted to explore a multilevel geopolitical/strategic/tactical game centred on what ifs of the Cold War from 1946 to the 80's. Nifty Fifties warships, aircraft, nukearsenals etc.

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Post #: 51
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/11/2004 3:34:36 AM   
ladner

 

Posts: 338
Joined: 8/24/2001
From: Virginia USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ASHBERY76

A new 'Emperor of the fading suns'.


I will second that motion, the Fading Suns is rich setting for a space empire game. Hopefully Noble Armada will be finished so that Matrix and Holistic Design will continue to work together.

The other items I would like to see are UV Med, and an update War in Russia. The Ultimate would be War in the Atlantic, thats right a War in the Pacific like game but this time everyone's favorite setting for WW2, Europe. Of course Gary, Joel, Keith, and company are probably burned out after WiTP.

edit - really need to read the whole thread before posting - sveint is spot on so much for Gary, Joel, Keith, and company getting a break...now back to work gentlemen.

< Message edited by ladner -- 3/11/2004 1:41:17 AM >

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Post #: 52
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/11/2004 4:31:17 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
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Status: offline 		UV Med, d@mmit. Then a port of Victory's "Vietnam."

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And the people let me down.
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Post #: 53
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/12/2004 7:41:19 AM   
Sarge


Posts: 2841
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From: ask doggie
Status: offline 		Civil War -RTS-3D now that would be cool. Do it before CDV does

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Post #: 54
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/12/2004 8:58:26 AM   
benpark

 

Posts: 3884
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Status: offline 		Boer War!

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Post #: 55
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/13/2004 11:27:00 AM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline 		I'm starting to believe this thread has become a joke.


War of Spanish Succession!!

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Post #: 56
RE: What do you want to see next from Matrix? - 3/13/2004 4:36:53 PM   
ladner

 

Posts: 338
Joined: 8/24/2001
From: Virginia USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

I'm starting to believe this thread has become a joke.


War of Spanish Succession!!


In all seriousness I would like to see an Emperor of the Fading Suns (EFS) remake. I have just about given up hope that this will happen, primarily because little to no progress seems to be made on Matrix's one project, Noble Armada, that is a collobaration with Holistic Design. Holistic Design by the way is the owner of the intellectual properties for Fading Suns and maker of the original EFS.

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Post #: 57
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/16/2004 4:19:38 AM   
showboat1


Posts: 1885
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From: Atoka, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Always wanted to explore a multilevel geopolitical/strategic/tactical game centred on what ifs of the Cold War from 1946 to the 80's. Nifty Fifties warships, aircraft, nukearsenals etc.


I agree on this one. It's an area with very little development that I would love to see.

UV-Med or something dealing with the North African campaign would be great. Might not even be all that hard to knock out with the current existing game engines.

< Message edited by showboat1 -- 3/15/2004 8:17:43 PM >

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Post #: 58
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/17/2004 8:32:16 AM   
Gooseman2558

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline 		I would Like to see a new modern tactical or stratigic level game. Some thing set in the 70's to future timeline. I know you guys scraped the modern update for SP but, with events in the world now how can you not have some thing to appeal to people to fight terrorism or even what if's. (EU vs Colalition of the Willing, a new NATO without France or Germany) Especially with TacOPs out there. It is fancy but limited in my mind.

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Post #: 59
RE: I have faith in Matrix Games - 3/17/2004 11:18:07 PM   
Kanonenfutter


Posts: 58
Joined: 3/2/2003
From: Germany
Status: offline 		What about a re-make of War in Russia? With more features and information.

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Post #: 60
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