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why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 8:09:27 AM

bostonrpgmania

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Guys

Why are u playing war games?

1. Do you like to know the situations that important historical figures (say Ike behind overlord) faced in the past and would like to know the details?
2. Or do you have an inner desire to outperform those generals (well with hindsight)?
3. Or do you just enjoy turn based strategy games?

Just curious
One good thing about war games, purely from Gamer's view point, is their replayability ; good war games followed by fans seldom dies
I recently picked up again KP and having a good time in PBEM (learning the game more by learning from my partners). most games just fade away as time goes by but it seemst that war games live on by devoted fans. Look operational art of war, combat mission etc and hopefully KP (or Bin?), HTTR, etc etc..

< Message edited by bostonrpgmania -- 10/3/2004 11:06:54 PM >

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 11:20:24 AM

Muzrub

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They make me think........

I suppose I could be a little more clear about what I mean.
Fantasy games dont interest me and shooter games hold my attention for a while, but a good 'ol war game like Spwaw or Close combat provide a little escape from everyday life. Every game can be different and one mistake could cost you dearly, especially since you cant just pick up a health pack!
Also when it comes to WW2 games I know the history and the intent. I dont try to change history I just try to get involved in it from a keyboard and mouse.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 3:31:36 PM

Hexed Gamer

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While admittedly I lump games into categories like most, for purposes of why do I buy what I buy, I ONLY buy games I can play more than once ie they are not so story driven that playing it through to "completion" effectively removes the reason for playing it twice.

Good example, I know the ending of a good handful of popular games for PS2 having talked with guys that have played them.
As good a game as they might be, I want to know I can play the game more than once.
I doubt I would even want the game for free if it can't be replayed.
I know movies have to eventually end, but I prefer my games to be endlessly replayable.

Which is why I can play a wargame, one that offers an open ended number of playings, while a game like Doom 3 would not interest me at all.

As to why I play them, easy answer, because I can.

Heck I know some people insist on attaching higher motives to a lot of the things we do, but in the end, most of us do what we do, simply because we can.

If not a wargame, I might be playing a rolegame. Or maybe making a model, or maybe doing some woodworking, or maybe writing, or maybe reading, or maybe riding my bike.
Everyone has that list of things they do. Most of it is because they can though.

I do housework because I HAVE to :)
Most people also don't work for "kicks".

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 4:37:27 PM

riverbravo

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The replay value is much higher in a good WG than any kinda shooter.

Right now I am digging the game Rome:Total War.I am sure I will replay this title a few times in the SP mode just because the campaign aspect of it is so good.

Another thing about a good WG is playing it from different aspects or sides and using different tactics.

Wargames also offer things a lot of games dont.....a scenario editor.I really like making my own battles and campaigns.

The MP mode is also neat.Its all cool to play a FPS and just 'go off' with some mindless killing but to win at a MP WG involves a bit of thinking and I feel you get more satisfaction out of a good MP wargaming victory than you do a high kill rate in CoD of BF42.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 5:08:06 PM

Kevinugly

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It's the intellectual challenge. Can I, by the application of superior battle tactics, overcome my opponent? If it's a recreation of a historical battle then there's the 'what if?' factor as well which makes it doubly interesting. I expect any wargame I play to be as historically accurate as possible within the limitations of the technology - otherwise it is 'just' a game ('Hearts of Iron' would be a good example -fun to play but not a wargame imho). If I want mindless, escapist, action then I'll play FPS games and there are some RTS games that I find enjoyable in a 'shallow' kind of way

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 7:08:16 PM

Mr.Frag

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It's the "If only I was in command ..." syndrome.

We all see lots of what we consider with 20/20 hindsight to be absolutely stupid choices. There is a drive to prove that in the same place, we would not make those choices and could do so much better. War Games make that possible.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 7:16:04 PM

bstarr

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There are several reasons, but deep down inside, the main reason is probably that wargames are as close as a 32 year old can get to playing with army men and not have people wonder about his sanity.

(oh, wait, I paint miniatures, too. That's even closer.)

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/4/2004 7:55:02 PM

Dirtdog20

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

There are several reasons, but deep down inside, the main reason is probably that wargames are as close as a 32 year old can get to playing with army men and not have people wonder about his sanity.

(oh, wait, I paint miniatures, too. That's even closer.)

^^^^ What he said.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 12:22:14 AM

bostonrpgmania

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I think in my case, I would like to observe how my deployment turns the tide of warfare that I am currently in command
In that regard, as still a newbie player, I am doing miserably. But certainly I am enjoying it. That maybe why right now I am a bit more interested in strategic warfare at an operational level than tactical warfare.
Also when I was in miliatary in HQ, I always moved icons (it is mandatory to serve in the military in Korea so I was not an office able to command the war game) following the direction of superiors. I always wanted to deploy my own way
War game filles that gap I think

By playing war game, I also undertand the difficult situation that commanders face
and understand better why Panzer stopped in 1940 (or 41) just because of the concern of overstreching its panzer troops
I experience the same kind of feeling by playing KP AtD.
What more I expect from a war game? Well I am not hard core, so sometimes a little bit of increased immersiveness factor is always a good thing. Combat mission did a very decent job in that regard. Well it is difficult to implement in operational level war game anyway

I also enjoy battlefield 1942 when I try to understant hactic situation of the battlefield which can not be well captured in operational level game. You are dead with one fatal shot and that's the fate of porr infantry.....

< Message edited by bostonrpgmania -- 10/4/2004 3:24:00 PM >

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 1:42:26 AM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

There are several reasons, but deep down inside, the main reason is probably that wargames are as close as a 32 year old can get to playing with army men and not have people wonder about his sanity.

(oh, wait, I paint miniatures, too. That's even closer.)

My thoughts exactly:)

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 3:22:52 AM

Brigz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

There are several reasons, but deep down inside, the main reason is probably that wargames are as close as a 32 year old can get to playing with army men and not have people wonder about his sanity.

(oh, wait, I paint miniatures, too. That's even closer.)

bstarr,
I was going to write some historical, technical answer, but when I thought about it, you are right. I think if all of us were honest, we'd all admit it. There is nothing wrong with being a grown-up kid and the real allure of wargames is because they are freakin fun.

Good news, bstarr. I've got over twenty years on you and the feeling never dies.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 3:26:51 AM

Pippin

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Why do I like wargames. Well a lot of things. For once, those 3D point and click shooter for dummies games are just done the first time you complete them. Yet I can take a simple wargame like Axis&Allies (Do I dare call it a wargame even?) and I have literally played that game over and over for years. Despite the simplistics, every game is different.

I used to play RTS games regularly, e.g. StarCraft etc. While they are somewhat fun, it tends to come down to the same thing, who ever can move the mouse the fastest, has the race that can swarm the other guy in a way that is hard for him to move the mouse proper to counter things rapidly and right, has the advantage.

I don�t know, I tend to prefer more of a thinking game.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 6:51:13 AM

KG Erwin

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The level of interest and immersion with the game depends upon its command level. Being the "man at the top" means different things at different levels, and during different time periods. Above all of them is a test of your decision-making skills, which can be applied in a number of real-world applications.

To contrast the levels, my two favorite games right now are SPWaW and Silent Hunter II. In SH2, the decisions you make are immediate and life and death. This can also include you, as the commander of a U-Boat. This is in real time, and your skills and ability to perform under pressure are sometimes put to the test.

A level upwards is SPWaW. You are a battalion commander, and will usually be out of the line of fire. This tests upper-management skills, and you have many different decisions to make. I prefer this level, as I still have the responsibility of protecting the lives of my men while balancing this against the objectives that must be achieved. I tend to think like a modern-day US commander, relying upon maximum use of firepower and minimum loss of life to complete the mission.

This is an ideal, as I tend to play the toughest missions (with the US Marines of WWII) against the toughest opponents (their Japanese adversaries in the Pacific). My innate pacificism has to deal directly with warfare of the most brutal and costly nature. I do this intentionally, to remind myself of the determination it takes to win in a kill or be-killed battle, and to do everything in my power to minimize losses to my men. Many don't understand me, but I do care about my troops, and even though its on a virtual battlefield, I treat the simulation as if it were real. Modified versions of these games are used by the military for officer training, so I try to treat my gaming as if I were doing the real thing. I don't take it too lightly.

Wargaming, to my mind, is serious business. For those who just want to shoot the baddies, there's plenty of that available. War is an ugly thing, but it is sometimes necessary, and these games give us opportunities to wage it in the most cost-efficient way we can manage it.

With all that said, the blood-thirsty mindset sometimes does overtake me. It is an unfortunate part of human nature. It goes with the territory. I don't take prisoners. If the opportunity arises, the enemy will be destroyed completely. Then we either move on to the next mission, or else the war ends victoriously and we can all go home.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 7:49:57 AM

Stehlek

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For me, wargames represent a genre that not only allows me to play slowly. I don't need to worry about a "twitch" factor, and involve a lot more thinking than anything else. I'm a glutton for details and history. I used to play just about every RPG that came out (though I never tried any of those on-line things). I've played both boardgames (AH, VG, SPI, etc) and pen & paper RPGs for over 20 years now. I'm not that old - only 31, and I always find myself going back to those old games.

Over the past couple of years, I've found that I prefer computer games that go back to the board gaming roots. I recently ordered KP, and should have it here in a day or two. I've been playing HttR for about 10 months - I simply love it! Shooters - well, that's a weakness I have. I'm not quick with the mouse/keyboard, but I like military-themed shooters. I still have no idea why I play them. Stress release or something maybe.

I, like other grogs, am also extremely interested in history, particularly WW2 and the Napoleonic Wars. My book collection is nearly 50-50 between fantasy and (non-fiction) history. My brother is also a history buff, and still paints hordes of minis. I don't have the skills to paint well (especially mass numbers), so I stick to games with all the parts.

Overall, I play wargames for the history lesson they present. From equipment specs on up to OOBs of Patton's 3rd Army - it is all part of a fun learning experience.

Good Day!

Stehlek

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 9:09:59 AM

bostonrpgmania

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quote:

I do this intentionally, to remind myself of the determination it takes to win in a kill or be-killed battle, and to do everything in my power to minimize losses to my men. Many don't understand me, but I do care about my troops, and even though its on a virtual battlefield, I treat the simulation as if it were real. Modified versions of these games are used by the military for officer training, so I try to treat my gaming as if I were doing the real thing. I don't take it too lightly.

Wargaming, to my mind, is serious business. For those who just want to shoot the baddies, there's plenty of that available. War is an ugly thing, but it is sometimes necessary, and these games give us opportunities to wage it in the most cost-efficient way we can manage it.

Very good point. I think above message defines the concept of immersiveness in war gaming. Thank you

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/5/2004 9:19:50 AM

bostonrpgmania

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stehlek

For me, wargames represent a genre that not only allows me to play slowly. I don't need to worry about a "twitch" factor, and involve a lot more thinking than anything else. I'm a glutton for details and history. I used to play just about every RPG that came out (though I never tried any of those on-line things). I've played both boardgames (AH, VG, SPI, etc) and pen & paper RPGs for over 20 years now. I'm not that old - only 31, and I always find myself going back to those old games.

Over the past couple of years, I've found that I prefer computer games that go back to the board gaming roots. I recently ordered KP, and should have it here in a day or two. I've been playing HttR for about 10 months - I simply love it! Shooters - well, that's a weakness I have. I'm not quick with the mouse/keyboard, but I like military-themed shooters. I still have no idea why I play them. Stress release or something maybe.

I, like other grogs, am also extremely interested in history, particularly WW2 and the Napoleonic Wars. My book collection is nearly 50-50 between fantasy and (non-fiction) history. My brother is also a history buff, and still paints hordes of minis. I don't have the skills to paint well (especially mass numbers), so I stick to games with all the parts.

Overall, I play wargames for the history lesson they present. From equipment specs on up to OOBs of Patton's 3rd Army - it is all part of a fun learning experience.

Good Day!

Stehlek

Hi If you need green KP player and want PBEM I am always available. Just pm me

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/6/2004 10:45:29 PM

UndercoverNotChickenSalad

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If I was a man of fame and wealth, I'd be in Barbados marrying Swedish supermodels (unless I was too busy lounging at the pool opening my dividend laiden mail, browsing my massive finacial statements, dreaming up new ways to screw the poor, or get out of paying my fair share of taxes) or maybe I'd just waste the day riding jetski.

Since I'm non of that, I sometimes play wargames. In short b/c I simply have nothing better to do

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/7/2004 1:23:12 AM

KG Erwin

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UNC, aren't you enjoying part of the economic boom that allegedly exists in the USA? Don't you feel safer and more secure than four years ago?

Not to worry--you can still bide your time by blowing up things via the wargames, and feel safe in that real warriors are fighting and dying to defend your right to do it.

Don't you feel better now?

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/7/2004 3:40:03 AM

Pippin

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quote:

I'm a glutton for details and history. I used to play just about every RPG that came out (though I never tried any of those on-line things). I've played both boardgames (AH, VG, SPI, etc) and pen & paper RPGs for over 20 years now.

Not to stray too far off topic, but I also used to be a big RPG fan, Final Fantasy & Dragon Warrior springs to mind. However, I am wondering if you used to partake in those, shall I say cult circles who sit there reading a book, then just talk all night making up a most rediculous story and then somehow pretend they are heros fighting in that story?

For a decade I remember seeing a lot of students (nerds?) sitting around pretending they are some theif, cyborg, knight, elk, warrior, archer, wizzard, dwarf, etc...
I finally joined a group to see if I could actually get the understanding of it. Many hours later I ended up leaving still not understanding what on earth was the point of this make it up as it goes type game. Just a bunch of teenagers and adults sitting around making up a story and rolling a dice once in a while to see if something happens. I don't know, not my cup of tea, why not just write a novel while your at it?

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/7/2004 3:52:46 AM

Hexed Gamer

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Pippin those games are most fun when you have a good director in the same way that a movie is only going to be good with a good director.

A lousy director makes a lousy game.

I have played in them for years. I have dry spells now and then. In one right now.

You will find great gamers just as easily as total social rejects.

It's just the same as some guys on a football team will be the heart of the team, others not.

You won't interact with every person at work equally well.

Just life when there are people involved.

Big difference with online gaming, is you can't actually see a wide batch of human behaviour that might not always be pleasant to deal with.
I know one couple for instance, great friends. But I prefer having them visit me rather than me visit them. Reason, I can't stand the way they brow beat, berate and generally speak in a hostile tone to their kids. It bothers me. When I have them hear away from the kids, that doesn't occur.

I have had guys visit for a game session. And I have made it clear to the friend that brought them over, not to bring them back again. In one case, I made it very clear not to EVER bring the person back again.

I prefer paper and pencil rolegames over computer versions. Because I ONLY play them for the social interaction.
I also would rather bust a hump getting a face to face wargame opponent, than get a dozen easy online contacts.
Even when you can trust the honesty of the game files, there is no real social contact involved.

< Message edited by Hexed Gamer -- 10/7/2004 1:54:04 AM >

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/7/2004 5:54:49 AM

UndercoverNotChickenSalad

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/7/2004 6:15:48 AM

Hexed Gamer

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You know Chicken, KGs comment shocked me as well believe it or not.

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RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/7/2004 6:49:45 AM

bostonrpgmania

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quote:

I'm a glutton for details and history. I used to play just about every RPG that came out (though I never tried any of those on-line things). I've played both boardgames (AH, VG, SPI, etc) and pen & paper RPGs for over 20 years now.

From my nickname, you might guess
I am glad that I am not alone

My favorite is Baldur's gate and fall out.
Today I bought Desert Fox (I like him, respectful general without any warcrime, saving waters for POW in Africa), Guadal Canal diary (I really would like get into Uncommon Valor. I will try once again after watching this movie) and Devils brigade (willam holden, not very high expectation. I hope it exceed my expectation).
One other movie that I am planning to buy is Pork Chop Hill (Well I am trying to play Squad Battle Korea and this movie is about Korean War at Squad level I guess)
Arrghhhhh...Now I have to save my money for games and.......for war movies as well
I wish I had a deep pocket

< Message edited by bostonrpgmania -- 10/6/2004 9:54:41 PM >

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Post #: 23

RE: why are u playing war games? - 10/7/2004 7:21:11 AM

UndercoverNotChickenSalad

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You know Chicken, KGs comment shocked me as well believe it or not.

yeha its like, where the heck did that come from

Somebody probly drinkin tonight