RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post it here?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post it here?

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RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 7:55:52 AM

Hirohito

Posts: 116
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Ok, let me clarify.

1.) My main battle fleet will stay in Phillippine and Pacific Waters. Only may massive submarine force will blockade Japan.
2.) My landing in Indo China will be in range of air units, and not until I am sufficiently prepared to do this. You are underestimating the Soviet Air Force. If you keep to your time table (which you must), you will have to commit everything.
3.) The IJN. To keep the supply lines to your troops in Russia, you will have to detail most of your destroyers. This, unless you want my submarines to send your flattops to the bottom, hampers how much you can deploy. In addition, you are on the defensive. The bulk of my plan is to get a foothold in the central Pacific, and get troops, going all the way around Aussie land, to the PI. If you don't take my airfields, then I can sink, or at least hamper your navy. You forget, You are not going to want to risk your carriers, as you won't get as many as I will. This goes in my favor. With your escorts attempting to keep the flow of goods to Siberia, your IJN can't be in the South China Sea, Central Pacific, Southern Pacific, and Northern Pacifc. In addition, I gave you a rough outline of my plan. I can attack from either avenue, or two at once.
4.) IJN Airforce. That is going to be the real tricky part. That will only hamper my French Indo China operations. Worst Case, I can't make a landing. So, I simply beef up Malay and the DEI. Doesn't matter to me, the result is the same.

The mistake you are making is that you don't see yourself committing your airforce to Russia. This is a naive thought inviting disaster. While you might knock out the Soviet AF, you still have to dig out the ground troops. The quickest way will be to bomb them. And your planes can't be dropping bombs on Soviet troops and my carriers at the same time.

My plan is all about Stalling. You are already on a 14 month time table on December 7. If you go Russia first, with luck on my part you may reduce that to an 8 month time table, by the time you're troops can go into India. Another 5 months slogging through Malay, India, and China, that leaves you just three months to grab the DEI and PI. That is 11 months, from Dec. 41, so this is November '42. By now, I can stick so many troops in the PI, I can hold you there for 4, and defacto, you're industry is broke. Not to mention, your fleet train is so badly damaged that if it is getting resources to Japn to restart the industry, then it can't be taking positions I hold in the SoPac and CentPac theaters. This means from a standard game, you have advanced my invasion time table by a year.

To say my plan is not feasible, is to furth criticize you're own plan. I actually messed with WitP checking things, and seeing how feasible it would be. I didn't just say "Hey, what if I did this."

The soviet air force consists of obsolete planes that are easily shot down. The japanese air forces in china, manhcuko and the home islands are easily up to the task of knocking them out of the sky. You overestimate the Russian troops, they aren't that difficult to beat. I don't want to have ships in the southern pacific or central pacific, I already said I was abandoning the central pacific. If by the southern pacific you mean new caledonia, fiji, and american samoa, I won't be there either. How is it that the submarine forces of the allies suddenly perform so much better than they did historically just because I invaded Russia? If you can interdict supply ships heading from the home islands to russia, then you can interdict japanese supply ships headed anywhere and you could just starve out all japanese forces. If you put submarines that close to the home islands they won't be there long.

Hirohito

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 61

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:01:32 AM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

I too am begining to suspect you either 1) don't own or 2) don't play Witp.

On submarines, It is this simple. As Japan, every transport is vital. And, if I put enough boats there, I can surely nail some.

Also, if you played WitP, you would know that submarines can operate off the home islands early in the war with relative impunity. Only in 1943, when Japan develops better ASW, does it become difficult. In my current game, I have 25 US, 5 Dutch, and 3 British submarines from Shanghai to Etorufu. My only sub loss was a Dutch boat off Khota Baru, in Malay. They have been on station for roughly a week now. They have netted 3 ships, for no loss. In addition, I am laying mines at various choke points, sure to nail some more.

My advice, play a game of witp, and then make suggestions on tactics.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 62

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:02:34 AM

Hirohito

Posts: 116
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Hirohito,
I'll state the obvious - You must not own the game. If you do, it's dusty.

I'm sorry, but attacking Russia and not the DEI is wrong. Please play me in a PBEM game. Name any terms you want, but attack Russia first. I'll have subs and B-17s causing you problems within the second week of the war. It just won't work for you otherwise.

Someone else used this excuse before. yes, I own the game. No, it is not dusty. I fail to see what owning the game has to do with discussing a war strategy, unless the game does not reflect reality at all. PI didn't fall in the second week of the war in the original japanese strategy and B-17s and subs didn't cause the empire major problems. Why will this change so drastically because japanese forces are on the move in Russia? Even if I invade PI on turn one I won't have conquered it by the second week of the war, so won't your subs and B-17s cause me problems then? I just don't get your reasoning. How many B-17s are you talking about? And what do you think the japanese air force is doing while you are sending them into empire air space?

Hirohito

(in reply to madflava13)

Post #: 63

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:11:09 AM

Hirohito

Posts: 116
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I too am begining to suspect you either 1) don't own or 2) don't play Witp.

On submarines, It is this simple. As Japan, every transport is vital. And, if I put enough boats there, I can surely nail some.

Also, if you played WitP, you would know that submarines can operate off the home islands early in the war with relative impunity. Only in 1943, when Japan develops better ASW, does it become difficult. In my current game, I have 25 US, 5 Dutch, and 3 British submarines from Shanghai to Etorufu. My only sub loss was a Dutch boat off Khota Baru, in Malay. They have been on station for roughly a week now. They have netted 3 ships, for no loss. In addition, I am laying mines at various choke points, sure to nail some more.

My advice, play a game of witp, and then make suggestions on tactics.

I am not making suggestions on tactics, the stated purpose of this forum is to discuss strategy. I am discussing strategy. The argument you pose, that my strategy wont work because your submarines will sink all my transports can be used no matter what strategy is suggested. I just don't get your argument. No matter what strategy I came up with you could use this argument, unless the strategy was to put the entire fleet into dry dock and just sit in japan waiting for the inevitable.

If you think that submarines can operate with impunity in the shallow waters off the home islands then youhaven't played an opponent who knew how to conduct ASW operations.

What choke points are you going to send mine layers to that will hamper the Russia first strategy? Sea of Japan? South China Sea? What do you think IJN and the japanese air force will be doing while your mine layers sail into these waters?

again, you can make this argument nomatter what strategy is adopted. Even if I invade PI, DEI, and Malaya on turn 1 you can still mine choke points and deploy your submarines and send your B-17s. I fail to see how they will perform so differently than they did historically as to totally ruin the Russia first strategy.

I'm beginning to wonder if you have ever played WITP.

Hirohito

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 64

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:17:41 AM

Hirohito

Posts: 116
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

You ever tried land combat in Witp Hirohito? It would take a month or two just to march your troops where they need to go, let alone the battle, quelling resistance, defending, and then marching them back. That is about a 4 month operation at least, looking closer to 6 or 7 months.

You are flat wrong. Obviously you have never tried a land battle in WITP. You can move your troops into position to attack russia in less than two months.

I have used this strategy against other players. The key is that they don't know it is coming. For turn after turn nothing happens on the japanese side. Then one day there is a three pronged attack aimed at the Russian forces which slices them into three isolated groups which are then cut off from supplies. Each is annhilated in turn. Doesn't take four months or six.

It wouldn't take you that long to try it out for yourself and see.

Hirohito

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 65

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:32:55 AM

WiTP_Dude

Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

IF you preposition your troops properly you can slice up the Russians and dispose of them slice by slice. It should be over in a month or two.

Hirohito

It will take a month or two to destory each pocket. Of course, I fail to understand why the Allied player won't attempt to breakout of these pockets.

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 66

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:34:38 AM

WiTP_Dude

Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Also, if you played WitP, you would know that submarines can operate off the home islands early in the war with relative impunity. Only in 1943, when Japan develops better ASW, does it become difficult. In my current game, I have 25 US, 5 Dutch, and 3 British submarines from Shanghai to Etorufu. My only sub loss was a Dutch boat off Khota Baru, in Malay. They have been on station for roughly a week now. They have netted 3 ships, for no loss. In addition, I am laying mines at various choke points, sure to nail some more.

This is not exactly true. The four depth charge DDs are fine for sinking submarines. Station about ten of them in Japan and put them out on patrols.

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 67

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:42:22 AM

madflava13

Posts: 1530
Joined: 2/7/2001
From: Alexandria, VA
Status: offline

Hirohito,
I'm not a Witp expert - let's play a game. You and me, PBEM. We'll post results on the forum. You choose the settings. I'll be the allies, you IJN. If I am wrong, so be it.

I've got the time....

_____________________________

"The Paraguayan Air Force's request for spraying subsidies was not as Paraguayan as it were..."

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 68

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:43:34 AM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

You are still 2 months behind schedule before you even get you forces to Manchuria.

Please play someone here and post the AAR. WITP_Dude already played your first startegy, when you would not. So lets see it.

Heck I have never even played as the Allies and I will take you on.

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)

Post #: 69

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:18:51 AM

Hirohito

Posts: 116
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

IF you preposition your troops properly you can slice up the Russians and dispose of them slice by slice. It should be over in a month or two.

Hirohito

This has not been my experience. Break out to where? There is no where to go,and no way to get supplies, the Russian troops are too far apart to support each other. The Japanese player can just retreat until the pocket currently under attack is destroyed and then turn to face the "break out" units. These troops won't have supplies, if they leave their bases how long will they last?

What do you base your statement that it will take a month to eliminate each pocket on? Have you fought battles of encirclement against isolated units before?

Hirohito

It will take a month or two to destory each pocket. Of course, I fail to understand why the Allied player won't attempt to breakout of these pockets.

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)

Post #: 70

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:29:00 AM

WiTP_Dude

Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

This has not been my experience. Break out to where? There is no where to go,and no way to get supplies, the Russian troops are too far apart to support each other. The Japanese player can just retreat until the pocket currently under attack is destroyed and then turn to face the "break out" units. These troops won't have supplies, if they leave their bases how long will they last?

What do you base your statement that it will take a month to eliminate each pocket on? Have you fought battles of encirclement against isolated units before?

Hirohito

What "experience" do you have? What are your opponents names and email addresses? Seriously.

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 71

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:37:53 AM

Hirohito

Posts: 116
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

quote:

This has not been my experience. Break out to where? There is no where to go,and no way to get supplies, the Russian troops are too far apart to support each other. The Japanese player can just retreat until the pocket currently under attack is destroyed and then turn to face the "break out" units. These troops won't have supplies, if they leave their bases how long will they last?

What do you base your statement that it will take a month to eliminate each pocket on? Have you fought battles of encirclement against isolated units before?

Hirohito

What "experience" do you have? What are your opponents names and email addresses? Seriously.

we dont' play via email. they live near me. we have a war gaming club and get together.

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)

Post #: 72

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:41:15 AM

Hirohito

Posts: 116
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

quote:

This has not been my experience. Break out to where? There is no where to go,and no way to get supplies, the Russian troops are too far apart to support each other. The Japanese player can just retreat until the pocket currently under attack is destroyed and then turn to face the "break out" units. These troops won't have supplies, if they leave their bases how long will they last?

What do you base your statement that it will take a month to eliminate each pocket on? Have you fought battles of encirclement against isolated units before?

Hirohito

What "experience" do you have? What are your opponents names and email addresses? Seriously.

What "experience" do you have? This constant belittlement because I want to discuss strategies in a forum that is for the purpose of discussing strategies is very tiresome.

I am sick of being belittled, I won't be back.

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)

Post #: 73

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:50:56 AM

WiTP_Dude

Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

we dont' play via email. they live near me. we have a war gaming club and get together.

So you play hotseat? How many hours per week?

< Message edited by WiTP_Dude -- 11/9/2004 2:51:35 AM >

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 74

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:51:49 AM

WiTP_Dude

Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

What "experience" do you have? This constant belittlement because I want to discuss strategies in a forum that is for the purpose of discussing strategies is very tiresome.

I am sick of being belittled, I won't be back.

Look in the AAR section.

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 75

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 11:01:13 AM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

One of the Betas attacked the Russians in a test. He did not go for victory, just to see what would happen. He got spanked bad.

Yeah and in a Beta game between Luskan and myself as Allies, the Rooshans auto-activated which caused Luskan all sorts of heartache. The Rooshans are not the push-overs that people here seem to think that they are.

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to 2ndACR)

Post #: 76

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 2:12:25 PM

moses

Posts: 2252
Joined: 7/7/2002
Status: offline

It looks to me that the plan might work. Russia seems beatable in the game and taking them out would then free troops to topple china, indonesia, and India like dominoes. The carriers and minimal forces can keep the US in check. WITP Dude vs Zeta showed that certain conquests can be delayed for a while without devestating effect.

But Hirohito be serious. The operation was obviously impossible in reality. In Jan in that area of the world your lucky just to survive much less attack anyone. This isn't france 1940. These are primarily infantry armies fighting as in WW1 from fortified positions. Its going to be a bloody slugging match. Perhaps Japan could have won but it would have taken more than a couple months and they would suffered very heavy casualties.

Then the shift to China which is easy in the game is far more difficult in practice. You can't just tell everyone to march south. It requires huge amounts of planning and support. Then defeating China quickly. Not going to happen. You might do it eventually but not nearly as fast as is possible in game.

The further shift to India is so bizare that I won't even continue.

You don't need to be a General to see that this is obviously impossible. Anyone with any real knowledge of ground combat operations will sufice.

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 77

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 2:33:26 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

I once again call on Hirohito to play one of his strategies against me in a PBEM and allow me to post the AAR. Yes I enjoy reading what you post but your refusal to actually "game" your ideas erodes your creditability.

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 78

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 3:05:03 PM

ctid98

Posts: 146
Joined: 6/19/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

Your plan makes no sense, unless you like using your navy assets for target practice.

Hirohito

And we're the un-enlightened ones, unwilling to embrace new ideas, quick to put them down.......

_____________________________

---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 79

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 3:07:25 PM

ctid98

Posts: 146
Joined: 6/19/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

I have tried this strategy against other players, I didn't come here to find opponents, I came here to discuss this strategy.

Hirohito

Indeed you have come here to discuss strategy, so perhaps some of your 'opponents' could join in the discussion and let us all know how well you or they got on with these strategies that you've employed so well.........

_____________________________

---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 80

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 3:19:12 PM

ctid98

Posts: 146
Joined: 6/19/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

The Empire didn't do too well with the "normal"strategy last time around. I'm looking for alternatives to what is known to be a losing strategy.

Hirohito

I thought the "normal strategy" worked very well it was only when Japan changed phase three (sit back, defend and wear them down), to include the Coral Sea and Midway engagements that it started going bad for them. Who know's what may have happenned if they'd of done what was originally planned. Maybe that could be your next strategy. I'm sure we could all pick holes in that too!!!!

I feel that a Russia first strategy could work, but only if America is kept out of the war. I don't see why they would be brought in given that they didn't bother too much when Germany invaded. If the British and Dutch then attack Japan to help their ally would FDR really have been able to convince Americans it was in their best interests to support them, after all, it was their chose to attack another opponent Probably better to sit back and make more from lend lease. Capitalist pigs.....

_____________________________

---------------------
Tora! Tora! Tora!

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 81

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 8:58:50 PM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

Hirohito is absolutely right in one thing, if in nothing else. This is a forum for discussing strategy and the "I question whether you even own the game" attacks aren't appropriate. Attack the strategy, not the person.

Ultimately, the best course would be for Hiro to PBEM someone. Failing that, I might do it if Mogami stays out of contact much longer.

(in reply to ctid98)

Post #: 82

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:10:33 PM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

Out of curiosity, how many VPs would Russia be worth to Japan?

Given it's location it's going to be quite hard for the Allies to prise those bases out of Nip hands once they've been taken, so it's a fairly solid backing of VPs.

Maybe enough of a backing to tip the balance into a win. How much of the rest of the world would you actually need to capture after all to get an auto victory, assuming you have Russia?

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 83

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:22:49 PM

Honda

Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline

Damn! Hirohito for president! In my short time as a forum visitor I don't remember anyone pissing off so many people. I for one think it's a good plan. Get the surprise and it's possible. It's a gamble but frees up the Kwantung army.
Bottom line: leave him alone people! If you don't like his ideas just say so. I haven't seen more taunting since the Holy Grail.
To Hirohito: if you're ever near Croatia at some point in your life, call me up for

.

< Message edited by Honda -- 11/9/2004 8:23:52 PM >

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 84

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 9:37:29 PM

WiTP_Dude

Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

Hirohito is absolutely right in one thing, if in nothing else. This is a forum for discussing strategy and the "I question whether you even own the game" attacks aren't appropriate. Attack the strategy, not the person.

Sorry to disagree but Hirohito uses his "experience" with the game as proof his plans work. When questioned to show any evidence of this experience, he always fails to deliver. Clearly, he does not play the game or only plays a little bit. Therefore his plans can be ignored as far as WiTP goes.

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 85

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 10:27:24 PM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

You ever tried land combat in Witp Hirohito? It would take a month or two just to march your troops where they need to go, let alone the battle, quelling resistance, defending, and then marching them back. That is about a 4 month operation at least, looking closer to 6 or 7 months.

You are flat wrong. Obviously you have never tried a land battle in WITP. You can move your troops into position to attack russia in less than two months.

I have used this strategy against other players. The key is that they don't know it is coming. For turn after turn nothing happens on the japanese side. Then one day there is a three pronged attack aimed at the Russian forces which slices them into three isolated groups which are then cut off from supplies. Each is annhilated in turn. Doesn't take four months or six.

It wouldn't take you that long to try it out for yourself and see.

Hirohito

Read my quote again Hirohito. I said move your troops into position, attack, and move them out again. You yourself said it takes 2 months to move into poition. If it takes 2 to get them there, it takes 2 to get em back. You just proved my point.

_____________________________

(in reply to Hirohito)

Post #: 86

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 10:32:02 PM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

I too am begining to suspect you either 1) don't own or 2) don't play Witp.

On submarines, It is this simple. As Japan, every transport is vital. And, if I put enough boats there, I can surely nail some.

Also, if you played WitP, you would know that submarines can operate off the home islands early in the war with relative impunity. Only in 1943, when Japan develops better ASW, does it become difficult. In my current game, I have 25 US, 5 Dutch, and 3 British submarines from Shanghai to Etorufu. My only sub loss was a Dutch boat off Khota Baru, in Malay. They have been on station for roughly a week now. They have netted 3 ships, for no loss. In addition, I am laying mines at various choke points, sure to nail some more.

My advice, play a game of witp, and then make suggestions on tactics.

I am not making suggestions on tactics, the stated purpose of this forum is to discuss strategy. I am discussing strategy. The argument you pose, that my strategy wont work because your submarines will sink all my transports can be used no matter what strategy is suggested. I just don't get your argument. No matter what strategy I came up with you could use this argument, unless the strategy was to put the entire fleet into dry dock and just sit in japan waiting for the inevitable.

If you think that submarines can operate with impunity in the shallow waters off the home islands then youhaven't played an opponent who knew how to conduct ASW operations.

What choke points are you going to send mine layers to that will hamper the Russia first strategy? Sea of Japan? South China Sea? What do you think IJN and the japanese air force will be doing while your mine layers sail into these waters?

again, you can make this argument nomatter what strategy is adopted. Even if I invade PI, DEI, and Malaya on turn 1 you can still mine choke points and deploy your submarines and send your B-17s. I fail to see how they will perform so differently than they did historically as to totally ruin the Russia first strategy.

I'm beginning to wonder if you have ever played WITP.

Hirohito

Remember this Hirohito, it is a general house rule among many players not to use ASW TFs, or to use small ones. Erego, to follow the spirit of this rule, you won't have several ASW TFs floating around. Remember, my point is to hamper the Russia first strategy, but the MAIN point is to use the 6 or so months you will give me to mine points, and set up good defenses to halt you from grabbing the PI and Malay. Again, you are not reading my posts. My mine laying submarines will mine the waters around Japan. My actual Mine laying surface ships will mine areas that you will have to transit to get to Malay, India, DEI, and PI. You're airforce won't be as effective there, especially if I can reinforce with P-40 groups from the States.

Again, my plan is not to "ruin" the Russia First Strategy. My plan is to take advantage of you doing that to speed up my advance across the Pacific, to force Japan to her knees. I cannot stop Russia from falling, that is a given. But it does give me 4 to 6 months to better prepare my Asiatic assets, to stop or delay the eventual invasion.

Before replaying, read my posts clearly.

< Message edited by Tankerace -- 11/9/2004 2:33:35 PM >

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Post #: 87

RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 10:35:26 PM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Also, if you played WitP, you would know that submarines can operate off the home islands early in the war with relative impunity. Only in 1943, when Japan develops better ASW, does it become difficult. In my current game, I have 25 US, 5 Dutch, and 3 British submarines from Shanghai to Etorufu. My only sub loss was a Dutch boat off Khota Baru, in Malay. They have been on station for roughly a week now. They have netted 3 ships, for no loss. In addition, I am laying mines at various choke points, sure to nail some more.

This is not exactly true. The four depth charge DDs are fine for sinking submarines. Station about ten of them in Japan and put them out on patrols.

In WitP, I deploy about 60& of my Submarine assets around Japan. I usually lose no more than 1 or 2 a month. My sinkings (in 1941) aren't great, but they do get better. The point is Japan cannot afford losses. And since his transports will be committed to a singular course of action, The average of sinkings is almost assured to go up. I can replace submarine losses. He can't effectively replace transport losses.

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RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 10:38:52 PM

Tankerace

Posts: 6400
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However, whether the plan will or won't work, I do commend Hirohito on one thing. He is thinking out of the box.

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RE: would someone total the Russian resources and post ... - 11/9/2004 11:14:16 PM

tsimmonds

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

However, whether the plan will or won't work, I do commend Hirohito on one thing. He is thinking out of the box.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hirohito

I am sick of being belittled, I won't be back.

Not anymore he isn't. Not here anyway. Can't really blame him either.

It's too bad really; I haven't thought there were many threads in The War Room that were more interesting than the three that he started.

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 11/9/2004 4:15:50 PM >

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Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Tankerace)

Post #: 90