SOP: Hold fire if fired upon

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SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 8/16/2005 5:28:43 PM

Embiss

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In what circumstances might I want to make use of this SOP?

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 8/17/2005 10:11:19 AM

CoffeeMug

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If you are low on ammo, for example.

Another situation can be like this: your unit is defending or is performing a delaying mission. Then, not to comprise your position, you use this SOP to open fire only when the enemy is engaging your position.

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 8/17/2005 1:05:02 PM

Embiss

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Thanks Coffeemug,
reserving ammo was the only situation i could see it being useful in.

In the second situation...if they have fired on me they know where I am so I am not giving away my position. You cant use indirect fire with anything except arty in FPG so, unless the firing unit is arty, they must have seen me and therefore I would want to whallop them pronto before they kill me wouldnt I?

I could see a use for it if there was an option to "hold fire if fired upon AND open fire if enemy is within X metres" so as to bring the enemy into effective range before wanging shells at them.

But Hold fire if fired upon doesnt seem to make any sense unless you are reserving ammo. Just wondered if there were any other circumstances where this SOP is advantageous

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 8/17/2005 1:22:19 PM

CoffeeMug

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quote:

ORIGINAL: embis
In the second situation...if they have fired on me they know where I am so I am not giving away my position. You cant use indirect fire with anything except arty in FPG so, unless the firing unit is arty, they must have seen me and therefore I would want to whallop them pronto before they kill me wouldnt I?

Hmm, perhaps I did not make myself clear.

If you use the "open fire when enemy is x meters away", you certainly give your position away without reducing the enemy enough. Perhaps he can evade your fire. What will happen then is, that your position will be hammered be enemy arty. Remember that the red side has an advantage of 10 to 1 on arty. Your platoon has to evade the arty fire and cannot continue the fire fight. Under arty protection, the enemy will continue to attack and close-in on your position, while you cannot do anything against it.

Now you use the "hold fire when fired upon". You are standing in your position. The enemy will detect you at some point, but this distance will be much closer than when you have declared a firing line. Lets say 1500 meters, because detection during movement is quite difficult for the reds. They open fire and odds are good, that the first rounds will miss. Now it's your chance to answer and with a much closer distance your chances to destroy the enemy formation can (!) be better than above.

Perhaps you make a little test to try it out.

Cheers,

CM

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 8/17/2005 3:24:39 PM

Embiss

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CoffeeMug
Now it's your chance to answer and with a much closer distance your chances to destroy the enemy formation can (!) be better than above.

Hmm... I am missing something here. That doesnt sound like "holding fire", which is what i understand hold fire if fired upon means.

I am due another lie down....I will go and have one then come back to this

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"Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."
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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 8/17/2005 3:30:51 PM

CoffeeMug

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quote:

ORIGINAL: embis

quote:

ORIGINAL: CoffeeMug
Now it's your chance to answer and with a much closer distance your chances to destroy the enemy formation can (!) be better than above.

Hmm... I am missing something here. That doesnt sound like "holding fire", which is what i understand hold fire if fired upon means.

I am due another lie down....I will go and have one then come back to this

Whoa! Stupid me! I misread your topic. Where you wrote "if", I read "until". Forget everything I wrote. Sorry.

Cheers,

CM

P.S. What I wrote about "hold fire until fired upon" is right, of course. ;)

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 8/17/2005 4:28:55 PM

Embiss

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Phew what a relief, I thought I was going bonkers.

Still, it leaves the question unanswered.

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 10/17/2005 3:54:18 PM

themattcurtis

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It's a great tool for defensive assets acting in an OP role.

You have a section of two IFVs (say Bradleys or some German/Brit/WP equivalent). You have them in concealment, so they can watch the bad guys a'comin and call in artillery.

Now, the engagement range determines how far out they'll shoot. But lets say an enemy unit pops into view closer than you were expecting (surprises do happen). Do you want your OP folks to reveal themselves simply because an enemy is in range? If the opposition hasn't seen you yet, then it would be wiser, I'm thinking, to simply stay quiet and stay put or pull back and disengage.

That's why I use that as an SOP setting, on occasion. Later, if I want those units to start shooting, I simply have to uncheck that option.

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 10/23/2005 12:43:45 PM

MikeBrough

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themattcurtis

I think you're making the same mistake that CoffeeMug made earlier. The OP asked why you would hold fire if fired upon'. If the enemy are already firing at you, what benefit is there in holding your own fire?

I agree that low ammo might be a reason but I have a slight problem with that. You don't have enough fine control over your units to tell them to hold fire against one enemy (recce?) but fire against another (armour?).

Mr Crandall, any insights?

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RE: SOP: Hold fire if fired upon - 10/26/2005 1:55:33 AM

Viper6

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Matt was on the right track, this could be used along with the "do not allow enemy to close within X meters" option, that way if you have scouts you do not want killed that are attacked they will be able to pull back from the contact as quickly as possible without staying to fight, otherwise they tend to stay around for a while attacking before they "scoot" away, and that is a good way to take casualties.

Viper

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