RE: Modding unit bitmaps (Full Version)

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Neilster -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/19/2006 9:18:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

As you may have guessed english is not my native language. When I wrote enforced it was with some doubt. I do like the implications of giving the corps power instead of just consisting of divisions. Suggestions on how you would like to see it changed?


How about..."was formed around 5 infantry divisions"? That implies that these divisions were the core of the corps ([:'(]) but not what it entirely contained.

Excellent write-ups capitan. Your english is first class.

Cheers, Neilster



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/19/2006 9:51:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan
As you may have guessed english is not my native language. When I wrote enforced it was with some doubt. I do like the implications of giving the corps power instead of just consisting of divisions. Suggestions on how you would like to see it changed?


How about..."was formed around 5 infantry divisions"? That implies that these divisions were the core of the corps ([:'(]) but not what it entirely contained.

Excellent write-ups capitan. Your english is first class.

Cheers, Neilster


I would need to know more about the relationship between the 5 divisions and the corps to choose the correct phrase.

However, if it is as Neilster surmises, then I would simply say "5 divisions formed the core of the corps with auxillary units attached occasionally."

There is no requirement on how many words you use to express a thought here. Afterall this is prose, not poetry.



mlees -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/19/2006 9:19:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: christo

how about "... consisted of 5 infantry divisions"


I guess that would be fine, for generic purposes.

However, in reality, the corps may not have stayed at 5 Infantry divisions. Indeed, throughout the war, most of the combatants Armies, Corps, and even Divisions manpower and TOE fluctuated based on operational concerns and troop availablility. That level of detail is not truly simulated by WiF, though.



jesperpehrson -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/19/2006 10:07:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees


quote:

ORIGINAL: christo

how about "... consisted of 5 infantry divisions"


I guess that would be fine, for generic purposes.

However, in reality, the corps may not have stayed at 5 Infantry divisions. Indeed, throughout the war, most of the combatants Armies, Corps, and even Divisions manpower and TOE fluctuated based on operational concerns and troop availablility. That level of detail is not truly simulated by WiF, though.



This was one of the main reason why I did not want to use consist of but I guess it is a detail not very important. The divisions in every corp varies so often that it would take a page of its own to just demonstrate it.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/19/2006 10:34:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan
quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees
quote:

ORIGINAL: christo
how about "... consisted of 5 infantry divisions"


I guess that would be fine, for generic purposes.

However, in reality, the corps may not have stayed at 5 Infantry divisions. Indeed, throughout the war, most of the combatants Armies, Corps, and even Divisions manpower and TOE fluctuated based on operational concerns and troop availablility. That level of detail is not truly simulated by WiF, though.


This was one of the main reason why I did not want to use consist of but I guess it is a detail not very important. The divisions in every corp varies so often that it would take a page of its own to just demonstrate it.


Ok. Then let's just say that: "The number of divisions in this corps, like other corps, varied greatly during the war. ... 5 divisions ...". The last is whatever you wanted to add about the 5 divisions.

I have a very simple view of writing for the most part. If something is difficult to get down in words, then I talk about it out loud, as if I were explaining it to someone. Often this means that I end up using more words, but I can communicate what I want to say more clearly.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/19/2006 10:39:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees
quote:

ORIGINAL: christo
how about "... consisted of 5 infantry divisions"


I guess that would be fine, for generic purposes.

However, in reality, the corps may not have stayed at 5 Infantry divisions. Indeed, throughout the war, most of the combatants Armies, Corps, and even Divisions manpower and TOE fluctuated based on operational concerns and troop availablility. That level of detail is not truly simulated by WiF, though.


I have been asking Capitan for some numbers to go with the land unit descriptions. The air and naval units descriptions have all those numbers about speed, armament, engines, weight, and defensive armor. The land unit descriptions look a little naked to my eye without some indication of size. It might be a fool's errand though.



jesperpehrson -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/19/2006 11:35:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees
quote:

ORIGINAL: christo
how about "... consisted of 5 infantry divisions"


I guess that would be fine, for generic purposes.

However, in reality, the corps may not have stayed at 5 Infantry divisions. Indeed, throughout the war, most of the combatants Armies, Corps, and even Divisions manpower and TOE fluctuated based on operational concerns and troop availablility. That level of detail is not truly simulated by WiF, though.


I have been asking Capitan for some numbers to go with the land unit descriptions. The air and naval units descriptions have all those numbers about speed, armament, engines, weight, and defensive armor. The land unit descriptions look a little naked to my eye without some indication of size. It might be a fool's errand though.


The thing is that I agree with that. I would love to have the layout of the naval units but the corps is a very organic construction. It has no constant, at all. I am not sure what numbers could be interesting judging by that.

If anyone have any good ideas of what I could put into matrix for each landunit I would be grateful. Any idea is welcome and I will see if I can find that number

Right now my thoughts are this:
1. Raised when?
2. What fronts?
3. When disbanded?

Then I add any extra information I can find. I sometimes go by information on some interesting commander, sometimes by some interesting battle and sometimes some freak fact I can get my hands on.

I am sure that when I will start on the more famous corps there will be plenty of information but these are the grunts, the backbone and I do use any scrap I can find.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 12:33:24 AM)

A couple of units from today's allotment for formatting.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/80C11EBBC6D1443885877A6EA3D363AE.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 12:35:16 AM)

2nd and last in the series. I finished formatting the Soviet air units today and started on the German air. I also did most of the German navy.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/AC5B53DC4A5B47F38FAD89ADC6F704BF.jpg[/image]



CBoehm -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 1:21:17 AM)

I can see from the reorg cost of the Pe-8 ...that variable reorg cost is not considered a standard ...hmm




Froonp -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 9:03:18 AM)

quote:

If anyone have any good ideas of what I could put into matrix for each landunit I would be grateful. Any idea is welcome and I will see if I can find that number

Right now my thoughts are this:
1. Raised when?
2. What fronts?
3. When disbanded?

Then I add any extra information I can find. I sometimes go by information on some interesting commander, sometimes by some interesting battle and sometimes some freak fact I can get my hands on.

Why not the amount of Decorations or Citations the corps got. Knights Crosses, Congressional Medal of Honors, Silver Stars....



jesperpehrson -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 10:08:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Why not the amount of Decorations or Citations the corps got. Knights Crosses, Congressional Medal of Honors, Silver Stars....


Good idea. It should not be too hard to find either I think.

so how about having this format:

Name: IV Infantry Korps
Fronts: France, Balkans and Russia
Decorations:

The IV Infantry Korps was raised in.... and so on and so forth...



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 10:42:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Why not the amount of Decorations or Citations the corps got. Knights Crosses, Congressional Medal of Honors, Silver Stars....


Good idea. It should not be too hard to find either I think.

so how about having this format:

Name: IV Infantry Korps
Fronts: France, Balkans and Russia
Decorations:

The IV Infantry Korps was raised in.... and so on and so forth...

Nice



jesperpehrson -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 10:56:44 AM)

Hmm this will be more difficult than I thought. I have a lot of information on different badges but then I only have the division the knights cross holders were part of. A divsion changes corps 342 times on the average (an exageration but still). What we could do is to decide one date and just check which Korps did it belong to? 1st January 1942? It is not exact science but otherwise it will be too complicated I think.

The Ironcross was awarded to 3 million+ people and the wound badge to 5 million+

There are some campaignawards that we can put in (Narvik, Kuban, Cholm etc.) but that will probably be it.



jesperpehrson -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 11:12:29 AM)

Come to think of it, maybe it is a bad idea if we cannot find out there same thing for all the armies. What do we put then? Decoration: Unknown?

I guess that would work. What you guys think? I will be able to find all the knights crosses awarded (with a lot of work, 700 divisions to check ;-) ) and some specific battledecorations. That is it.

It could look like this (in the best of cases)

Decorations: 18 knights crosses, complete set of Narvik shields, numerous Iron crosses and numerous Woundbadges.



Norden_slith -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 12:41:49 PM)

Looks really promising, but I'd recommend to drop the woundbadges, possibly even some of the other "lowgrade" decorations.




jesperpehrson -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 2:08:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norden

Looks really promising, but I'd recommend to drop the woundbadges, possibly even some of the other "lowgrade" decorations.




After giving it a hard look I agree. I will include the Iron Crosses though. In the cases where I cannot find information (e.g. Pannwitz Cossacks) I will just put unknown. I almost feel like I have found a good format and I will ask Steve to post my latest submission for you to judge.



Greyshaft -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 11:06:20 PM)

capitan,
great work on the research. I tend to agree that it would be setting an extremely difficult precedent to put "decorations" as a hard fact next to campaigns. Perhaps just add a comment about decorations within the text for one or two of the units?



Zorachus99 -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 11:28:37 PM)

I'd find the exploits of the commanders of the land units, term of service, significant battles etc., being a bit more interesting than the number of divisions.

Particularly considering the ghost divisions the germans fielded, the change in divisional size between allies/axis during the length of the war; the word division is hard to put a finger on because it's different for most nationalities.  German divisions went from 9 battalions to 7 battalions midway through Barbarossa for instance.

The optional rule 'limited troop strength' covers this nicely.  The idea of a unit destroyed out of the country taking a year to reform, one destroyed OOS an additional year, and units destroyed in country able to reform immediately is neat (though I've never played with it).  Too much paperwork...



Froonp -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/20/2006 11:59:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

capitan,
great work on the research. I tend to agree that it would be setting an extremely difficult precedent to put "decorations" as a hard fact next to campaigns. Perhaps just add a comment about decorations within the text for one or two of the units?

Maybe only the highest decorations, such as the CMOH. what is the highest in the German array of Medals ?



jesperpehrson -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/21/2006 12:06:04 AM)

This one I suppose: http://www.feldgrau.com/rkgosd.html

Only one guy ever got it [X(]

The problem however is that I only found a reliable source for the Knights Crosses.



CBoehm -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/21/2006 12:37:55 AM)

ahh Rudel ...2000 vehicle/gun/etc. kills ...of which aprox. 500 were tanks or selfpropelled guns ... and as far as I remember more 3000+ combat missions ...AND he only started flying non-reconnasaince in mid 41 ...

actually a bit unfair that Erich Hartmann didnt get it too I think ...I mean 352 kills in air2air combat is not entirely bad ...and he NEVER got shot down or had to bail out ...remember reading a quote of him somewhere saying something like that "what he was more proud of than his kills was that he had never lost a wingman"

...ofcause if one has to be fair, the allies would probably have had a few bigger aces too if the Germans hadnt given up trying to contest their airsuperiority over France...



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/21/2006 1:04:26 AM)

One of today's allotment of reformatted air unit descriptions.

"Hans, since this is an asphalt runway, why don't I go first? You can follow."[sm=00000622.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/16701/9222B55FA74B4101B9D66F4B4D934E22.jpg[/image]



Mziln -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/21/2006 1:24:15 AM)

quote:

capitan

This one I suppose: http://www.feldgrau.com/rkgosd.html

Only one guy ever got it

The problem however is that I only found a reliable source for the Knights Crosses.


And that one guy was Hans Ulrich Rudel (who was consulted in the designing of the A-10 Warthog).

He destroyed 150 anti-aircraft and anti-tank positions, 800 motor vehicles, the Soviet Battleship Marat, a Soviet Cruiser, a Soviet Destroyer, 70 Soviet landing craft, and numerous bridges and bunkers. He also heavily damaged another Soviet Battleship, the October Revolution. Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions, claimed 11 air victories in his Stuka, and was shot down 30 times.



Zorachus99 -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (10/21/2006 2:27:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln

quote:

capitan

This one I suppose: http://www.feldgrau.com/rkgosd.html

Only one guy ever got it

The problem however is that I only found a reliable source for the Knights Crosses.


And that one guy was Hans Ulrich Rudel (who was consulted in the designing of the A-10 Warthog).

He destroyed 150 anti-aircraft and anti-tank positions, 800 motor vehicles, the Soviet Battleship Marat, a Soviet Cruiser, a Soviet Destroyer, 70 Soviet landing craft, and numerous bridges and bunkers. He also heavily damaged another Soviet Battleship, the October Revolution. Rudel flew 2,530 combat missions, claimed 11 air victories in his Stuka, and was shot down 30 times.



I read Stuka Pilot. Great read.

Anyone who delivered 1,000,000 lbs of ordinance and fired 1,000,000 rounds of ammunition is quite a footnote in the history of world war II.

Some of his exploits:
Most bombs dropped than any pilot of the war
Most tanks destroyed 200+ than by any pilot
Most missions flown during the war (only 41-45) than any pilot

Late in the war his formations only consisted of a few planes, so he would be one of the few pilots in the air. He defeated a famous russian ace, and very improbably survived the war.

Hitler took him aside at one point, mentioned in his memoirs, to talk about a super-bomb that would end the war before Germany's collapse. There is historical evidence of a sub-critical nuclear explosion near the Rocket base in Peenemunde in early '45.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (12/20/2006 11:12:04 AM)

We are getting close to tapping out the resources Windows has available for bitmaps. In anticipation of that problem arriving in the next 2 weeks, I have converted the individual unit bitmaps to pages of 100 each. This reduces the number of bitmap files for units from 2100+ down to 22. Here are some samples. Australians are first.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/1168A56886814CE2A647B06762861F52.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (12/20/2006 11:15:01 AM)

Some Japanese and Russians. The numbers are separate from the bitmaps and are added "on the fly". Since they are read in from comma separated values files (CSVs), the players can change the factors for units and have the new ones appear on the counters.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/5F66FCFFB1254751A5E8D3C6070D5B79.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (12/20/2006 11:18:12 AM)

I'll include the utility program that transfers individual bitmaps to these pages as part of the game package. That way players will be able to create their own bitmaps for air and naval units, should they find that an important thing to do.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/684A7E1A10B9438AA1EBF509D7DE1192.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (12/20/2006 11:19:10 AM)

4th and last in the series. Some of the naval unit bitmaps.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/BF5F7DC9C7B7441791C52D0B1321FCD5.jpg[/image]



trees -> RE: Modding unit bitmaps (12/20/2006 12:46:34 PM)

I never noticed the little white skull is smiling before.



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