RE: RHS update plans and ETAs

RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (Full Version)

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el cid again -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/17/2007 9:52:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos quote: ORIGINAL: el cid again I obtained records from something called "The Splinter Fleet Association" - sailors of wooden MS and PC and such like - who feel their vessels records are somewhat slighted in the major publications available. People who tries to remind things which happened 40 years ago are not a source at all. DANFS is a source. You seem to often use very doubtful information, which effects in weird things such as Uragan's in coast guard, Vnushitelny completed two years before it did histroically, etc. REPLY: Possibly a poor example. I used Conways - which is not "someone trying to remember things which happened 50 years ago" - and in any case - the splinter fleet association does not do that either. They simply make available more records than you can find in a normal source with a focus on larger ships. But IF that were the case - anyone interested in history should PREFER the eyewitness to the academic version. I can tell you things about naval warfare in the Cold War and Viet Nam in no referene - admitted in no official source - which are quite true. SLAM taught "if we want to know the truth, we need to ask those who know the truth, and not work via secondary sources." Compared to what an eyewitness knows, even a formal record can be wrong. Not a few things get into logs and reports which are incorrect. These are important indicators - not garantors of gospel. And note that a reference book is not a log or a report - nor generally derived by reference to them. And here you have confused my using a reference book with using an eyewitness. I did it your way - but still got the heat for not! Nice job. quote: Since the class was designed as dual function MS and tugs - classification may not mean much. They may all have been able to be sweepers. Even if the sweeps were removed (which I bet they were) - it would not be hard to put them back. Essentially, it is a question of "do you carry the sweeping cable? or not?" I showed you they were practicing minesweeping during that time. So we need a common logic: was this possible with sweeps removed? No it wasn't. They still had their sweeps. REPLY: You did not show that - and you do not know that. A cryptic line in a brief history like DNFS does not tell you that on a certain date a sweep was embarked. Nor are you understanding that it is not germane: if it was embarked - it could not be used by a single sweeper in the effective way (that is - a wide sweep towed by two ships). You could tow both ends from the same sweeper - but our code would not know you were doing this - it would not divide by 10 (or whatever) the effectiveness - and it would mislead to classify it as a MSW. It is for TECHNICAL reasons I am not classifying as a MS - even if it was so fitted. Because I am introducing a reform - MSW work in pairs IRL and - now - in RHS.

el cid again -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/17/2007 9:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: m10bob [Of course we have the ability to create convoys anywhere we wish,(manually), but this defeats the idea I am addressing. Why was Edison not content with candles?[:)] I cannot offer the cure, just ideas.. I really believe your added "areas of origination" might be part of that solution. I do not believe I am over-evaluating the concepts you have implemented to date. Andrew Brown showed us how a stock "area of origination" could be stretched, or moved,and you may be showing how it might be multiplied. What I cannot do is change the number of British Exit Points slot wise. I have taken one of them and given you more ways to reach it - from both map edges in fact. But it is still only two slots. Similarly, there is only one PH slot. IF that is the auto convoy refuel point - I can put it anywhere - but only one anywhere. It might have other impacts too. Assuming it does not - or we can live with them - where should that somewhere be? My first guess is Melbourne. Cobra's was Columbo. [I did create more entry points - not only for units but for supplies - but this is pretty technical and minor in most cases. The only significant change is that such points on the ship track can enter on either East or West map edge. Very soon you will get this in stock - not with shipping tracks but by off map holding boxes. Matrix is not done developing WITP I - has not decided to fund WITP II yet - and might itself reform auto convoys]

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/17/2007 10:28:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: el cid again quote: ORIGINAL: m10bob [Of course we have the ability to create convoys anywhere we wish,(manually), but this defeats the idea I am addressing. Why was Edison not content with candles?[:)] I cannot offer the cure, just ideas.. I really believe your added "areas of origination" might be part of that solution. I do not believe I am over-evaluating the concepts you have implemented to date. Andrew Brown showed us how a stock "area of origination" could be stretched, or moved,and you may be showing how it might be multiplied. What I cannot do is change the number of British Exit Points slot wise. I have taken one of them and given you more ways to reach it - from both map edges in fact. But it is still only two slots. Similarly, there is only one PH slot. IF that is the auto convoy refuel point - I can put it anywhere - but only one anywhere. It might have other impacts too. Assuming it does not - or we can live with them - where should that somewhere be? My first guess is Melbourne. Cobra's was Columbo. [I did create more entry points - not only for units but for supplies - but this is pretty technical and minor in most cases. The only significant change is that such points on the ship track can enter on either East or West map edge. Very soon you will get this in stock - not with shipping tracks but by off map holding boxes. Matrix is not done developing WITP I - has not decided to fund WITP II yet - and might itself reform auto convoys] If you are able to move the single fueling point from Pearl,(which I strongly see as the crux of the auto-convoy problem), my vote is for Melbourne also, (as was a prior thread suggestion.) Nearly ANYPLACE in the southern hemisphere, while not historical, would be a darned sight more practical.. It would also force us to keep Melbourne fuel supplied by those manual tanker convoys from Aden and San Diego. An alternative to Melbourne might be Auckland?

CobraAus -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/18/2007 12:11:26 AM)
quote: An alternative to Melbourne might be Auckland? to keep distance balanced and as Melbourne is tucked away south Aus so to speak I would go for either Sydney or Brisbane as the refuel point - But I have a feeling (cant prove it)that the Pearl Harbour slot may be a loaded gun and moving may have unforseen consequences but wont hurt to try and test. m10bob if you are running an auto convoy out of San Fran in one of your save's check for me and see if refuel is Pearl or San Fran - if Pearl then there is only one refuel point - if San Fran we would be in luck and have two points then moving the Pearl Harbour RFP could be further west and not Aus to cater for the Aden Auto convoys Cobra Aus

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/18/2007 5:47:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CobraAus quote: An alternative to Melbourne might be Auckland? to keep distance balanced and as Melbourne is tucked away south Aus so to speak I would go for either Sydney or Brisbane as the refuel point - But I have a feeling (cant prove it)that the Pearl Harbour slot may be a loaded gun and moving may have unforseen consequences but wont hurt to try and test. m10bob if you are running an auto convoy out of San Fran in one of your save's check for me and see if refuel is Pearl or San Fran - if Pearl then there is only one refuel point - if San Fran we would be in luck and have two points then moving the Pearl Harbour RFP could be further west and not Aus to cater for the Aden Auto convoys Cobra Aus Refuel is Pearl, always has been, from vanilla on..No rhyme nor reason to that, my friend.....

el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.658 and pwhex uploaded (3/18/2007 6:49:39 AM)
A wholly revised pwhex.dat for Level 6 is now uploaded. It implements changes near Celebes and the Eastern DEI / Solomans area. It has all the revisions from before and the few new additions. A whole set will follow.

Andrew Brown -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/18/2007 7:22:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CobraAus to keep distance balanced and as Melbourne is tucked away south Aus so to speak I would go for either Sydney or Brisbane as the refuel point - But I have a feeling (cant prove it)that the Pearl Harbour slot may be a loaded gun and moving may have unforseen consequences but wont hurt to try and test. Given the propensity for the WitP code to use hard coded slot numbers for various purposes, I was thinking the same thing - using the PH base slot for another location may end up confusing the AI in other ways. I also agree with Cobra that there is only one way to find out - give it a go and see what happens. Andrew

el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.659 and pwhex uploaded (minor reforms) (3/20/2007 4:27:38 AM)
Cobra found a bad art pointer - a PC was pretending it was a CA! I set out to find more among the minor vessels - and found half a dozen (not quite as glaring) eratta. There is a debate about airfield size, and I have re-rated a couple of fields. There is a problem with respawning Soviet naval units - they appear in Central Asia. I tried to change the submarines into PT boats - and have them (and any other respawned naval units) appear at Vladivostok - by slot manipulation. I thought that we had to redo pwhex. I decided to get Celebes completely right - and set out seeking more issues to include. Panama was a mess - possibly inherited from CHS - except for the rail line nothing was right. I added minor ferries to Samoa and some Japanese and Dutch islands - for which Cobra has released (or soon will release) map art. I have a new theory of pwhex coding - which Andrew thinks is wrong - so I have not coded it everywhere - but only a few places - to see. Good chance it changes nothing at all - but if it does change things - it means units will retreat under control of the modder better (that is, the modder can decide "they would retreat along the coast, not go inland" sort of thing).

Andrew Brown -> RE: RHS 6.659 and pwhex uploaded (minor reforms) (3/20/2007 5:45:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: el cid again Panama was a mess - possibly inherited from CHS Can you please verify that, and let me know what the "mess" possibly in CHS is? quote: I have a new theory of pwhex coding - which Andrew thinks is wrong Hmmmm. Another correction required - firstly the "new theory" you talk about is not new, or a theory. It is a reversion to the way the map data file was coded before it was changed in WitP patch 1.6. Secondly, I did not state that it was wrong. I stated that it was a reversion to the old way the map data was coded. Andrew

CobraAus -> RE: RHS 6.659 and pwhex uploaded (minor reforms) (3/20/2007 8:19:22 AM)
Flash Traffic please put PWHEX v6.659 on hold till I hear back from Sid I think I have found a major problem while looking at anothe problem for some one !!! should not be too long I hope Cobra Aus

el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.659 and pwhex uploaded (minor reforms) (3/20/2007 10:21:43 AM)
OK - Looks like I got a Level 5 file from Herrbear - so what I updated was Level 5 - so I am repackaging it as Level 5.66 - with one additional eratta corrected. Level 5.66 data package to follow immediately. I must create a Level 6 pwhex set from this.

el cid again -> RE: RHS 6.659 and pwhex uploaded (minor reforms) (3/20/2007 10:29:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown quote: ORIGINAL: el cid again Panama was a mess - possibly inherited from CHS Can you please verify that, and let me know what the "mess" possibly in CHS is? REPLY: I have not looked at pwhex coding at Panama (as far as I remember) - and had I done I would surely not have left it as I found it. Essentially every communications code was wrong - except that the RR between Panama City and Colon functions properly (in spite of some spurrious codes running off in other directions). I cannot be sure, however, that all these errors are CHS errors - in spite of the fact they are CHS codes. I am using different art - and it is possible things "creeped" in some cases - so some of the codes may mesh with CHS art. But some of them - being disconnected and or at sea - are likely to be wrong. I need to load CHS art and the CHS pwhex to tell for sure - and I have not done. I don't usually notify you of an issue until I have verified it with CHS files directly. quote: I have a new theory of pwhex coding - which Andrew thinks is wrong Hmmmm. Another correction required - firstly the "new theory" you talk about is not new, or a theory. It is a reversion to the way the map data file was coded before it was changed in WitP patch 1.6. Secondly, I did not state that it was wrong. I stated that it was a reversion to the old way the map data was coded. Andrew REPLY: Well - this is pretty much terminology. If it is the original system - and if Matrix has abandoned it at level 1.6 - it may not exactly be "wrong" - but it is hardly "current." My theory is that we may want to use the codes when it suits our purposes - if we can comprehend what that means? We apparently have to try it - so a few hexes are so coded. This is a relatively safe test insofar as it appears that a major possibility is this is moot. I hope to "discourage" movement cross country in directions less likely to be used - and either I will - or I won't.

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/20/2007 11:10:32 AM)
Clarification needed please.....Earlier, in Cobra's "release thread", I wrongfully reported a problem I had observed with my most southern convoy route,(the route on the map going from just off Perth, straight down the edge of the map and then cutting across the bottom at a 90 degree angle to South Atlantic entry) was no longer being followed by my ships. Instead, (as reported), the path the ships were following were making a short cut at a 45 degree angle in the middle of that path. (Actually, I like this newer path). Is there new art for that corner of the map, to reflect the angled route? If so, where is it? I am not using any of the seasonal maps whatsoever, had not intended to do so. I am using version 6 RHS .. In that thread, somehow, Peter got confused about my comments. I know scenario files involve OOB's.. I know Pwhex files involve the map and its' locations/terrain alignment..[:)]

el cid again -> RE: RHS Level 5 pwhex and data file sets uploaded (3/20/2007 11:20:23 AM)
OK - turns out the pwhex I worked on was Level 5 - so I uploaded a set and Level 5 data files to match. Must now create a level 6 pwhex set to match. Aside from eratta (minor vessel pointers) and rerating some airfields (Kuching and Balikpapan), this converts the Ki-67 to a bomb type bomber - except for the JAAF "Torpedo Squadron" and the JNAF 762nd Kokotui. The 7th Sentai also operated with these units - also with torpedoes - but it cannot convert to the Ki-67 and get the torpedo version now. This is an attempt to appease those who think torpedo use is too widespread - and in this case it was not the normal loadout. We will see what the reaction is. The 672nd has (ki67) in brackets so you will know it is the unusual unit. Any unit UPGRADING to Ki-67 will get bombs instead of a torpedo.

el cid again -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/20/2007 11:22:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: m10bob Clarification needed please.....Earlier, in Cobra's "release thread", I wrongfully reported a problem I had observed with my most southern convoy route,(the route on the map going from just off Perth, straight down the edge of the map and then cutting across the bottom at a 90 degree angle to South Atlantic entry) was no longer being followed by my ships. Instead, (as reported), the path the ships were following were making a short cut at a 45 degree angle in the middle of that path. (Actually, I like this newer path). Is there new art for that corner of the map, to reflect the angled route? If so, where is it? I am not using any of the seasonal maps whatsoever, had not intended to do so. I am using version 6 RHS .. In that thread, somehow, Peter got confused about my comments. I know scenario files involve OOB's.. I know Pwhex files involve the map and its' locations/terrain alignment..[:)] It appears I have released Level 5 pwhex files and called them Level 6. You must go back to the previous 6.42 release until I make a new Level 6 file.

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/20/2007 11:32:23 AM)
Thank you..[:)]

CobraAus -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/20/2007 11:43:41 AM)
quote: Clarification needed please sorry mate I was totally done the wrong path when you said 45 degree path ok back to what you really said and scrub every thing I said previously It look like there may be a break in the channel as no work has been done on the left hand side of map - every thing should go down then turn 90 degrees across bottom of map any chance you could indicate at what hex the TF's are leaving the channel TF's are lazy and will take quickest route if any openning is left Question has any one else had this happen Cobra Aus

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/20/2007 11:59:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CobraAus quote: Clarification needed please sorry mate I was totally done the wrong path when you said 45 degree path ok back to what you really said and scrub every thing I said previously It look like there may be a break in the channel as no work has been done on the left hand side of map - every thing should go down then turn 90 degrees across bottom of map any chance you could indicate at what hex the TF's are leaving the channel TF's are lazy and will take quickest route if any openning is left Question has any one else had this happen Cobra Aus Next time I have it booted, I can identify every hex in that angled route just by tracking their exposed "paths of intent" by hovering the cursor over those hexes,(I hope).. Cannot do it till tonight...I am a common wage-earner....

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 11:41:11 AM)
3/20/2007 1:09:00 AM CobraAus Matrix Legion of Merit Posts: 2024 Joined: 8/23/2004 From: Geelong Australia Status: online quote: I added the newest PWhex 6.xxx to an ongoing RHS CVO game, and the "path" to South Atlantic entry point no longer lines up with the map I have. On the southwest corner of the map, the path the ships are taking no longer follow the edges of the map, and the path they are following is at a roughly 45 degree angle to the map now. Was loading the "summer map panel" a necessity for this apparent change? following further investigation -I find the following when we start doing the map side channels the bottom channel went right to the bottom right hand corner then turn 90 degrees and went straight up right hand edge of map - some time ago the PWHEX was changed so that at hex 136-148 the channel now turns at 45 degrees and go's to 143-133 where it links into the existing AB's channels I hope that helps Cobra aus Okay...ya did it..I am totally lost.. Does Sid's "summer map release dated 032007 for (apparently) v5 AND version 6 match up with the v6 Pwhex file, in the far southwest corner of the map?? (This is the lower left corner of the map) I know left and right I know Pwhex is for terrrain definition I know north from south For what I do not know, please see the question immediately above. I am NOT using "seasonal-changes" mapping This game is complex enough. Thank you.[X(]

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 11:59:39 AM)
O.K....I love the map Cobra has created. Which map panel do I need to line up with the 45 degree angled convoy route going to the south atlantic entry point? Extreme southwest corner of the map.

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 12:04:29 PM)
RE: Cobra Aus RapidShare link page - 3/19/2007 7:51:38 PM Herrbear Matrix Elite Guard Posts: 589 Joined: 7/25/2004 From: Walnut, CA Status: offline quote: ORIGINAL: m10bob I added the newest PWhex 6.xxx to an ongoing RHS CVO game, and the "path" to South Atlantic entry point no longer lines up with the map I have. On the southwest corner of the map, the path the ships are taking no longer follow the edges of the map, and the path they are following is at a roughly 45 degree angle to the map now. Was loading the "summer map panel" a necessity for this apparent change? To my knowledge, it has been that way for some time. The map art does not match the actual route. I only discovered it using F6 in the game. [sm=Christo_pull_hair.gif]

CobraAus -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 12:29:21 PM)
quote: Okay...ya did it..I am totally lost.. yep did it purpose - sence of humor here right at the moment put everything on hold as there is no working v6.66 PWHEX to refer to and previous couple were broken Sid just email me and I now confused myself with what he said - so I am going to naval gaze until the new PWHEX comes out and I can then put the channel right in the art which wont take long cobra aus

el cid again -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 12:32:28 PM)
The "45 degree ship path" is a feature ONLY of Level 6 at this time (Level 5 has no ship channels other than those from CHS). It is ONLY found in the SOUTHEAST map corner. The SOUTHWEST map corner always turned at 90 degrees - and will even in Level 7 - so the Madagascar mini map can go into that corner. Functional Level 6 pwhex files always had things this way. A NEW pwhex file is hours away - and it WILL work with any level 6 map art - BUT the NE corner features a new ship track - with fewer bends - an no barrier - so the faded map art ship channel will be wrong unless you load a new map art panel - which Cobra has not yet made (because he didn't know I would do this - I didn't know until just now either). The game will work- ships will follow the ship path - and the barrier and ship tracks are something I control in pwhex. But the faded blue lines showing where the ship track and barrier are will be wrong in the NE corner for a while (my bet is one day since Cobra is the fastest artist on the planet). Note that this pwhex set (6.66) - along with its sister (5.66) already out - are frozen. Similarly, data files corresponding to these are also frozen - and I am going to have a go at a first pass Level 7 pwhex file. Blitzk has had to work (real world) and didn't get to do anything to the location files enhancement wise - but I have modified some things as indicated above - art pointers - Ki-67 - etc.

CobraAus -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 12:41:20 PM)
quote: Next time I have it booted, I can identify every hex in that angled route just by tracking their exposed "paths of intent" by hovering the cursor over those hexes,(I hope).. ok after that clarification from Sid I still think the problem you have is a break in the PWHEX channel barrier which is letting your TF's to break out and move in the 45 degree angle - the TF would have chosen this route its self as the quickest from point A to B so I still ask can you ID the hex where the TF leaves the channel so we can check if there is a break. Cobra Aus

m10bob -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 2:08:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CobraAus quote: Next time I have it booted, I can identify every hex in that angled route just by tracking their exposed "paths of intent" by hovering the cursor over those hexes,(I hope).. ok after that clarification from Sid I still think the problem you have is a break in the PWHEX channel barrier which is letting your TF's to break out and move in the 45 degree angle - the TF would have chosen this route its self as the quickest from point A to B so I still ask can you ID the hex where the TF leaves the channel so we can check if there is a break. Cobra Aus Cobra, of course I can, but since reading some threads from Herrbear and El Cid, I am lead to believe Sid made some actual channel changes (to the 45 degree angle) and may not have informed you when he did it.(See above approx 2 threads up).. You have worked like a Tasmanian devil on these maps and now you have us "hooked"..

Ol_Dog -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 4:36:26 PM)
I am sure Sid is referring to the 45s near Gal. Is. on the SE portion of the map

el cid again -> RE: RHS Level 6.66 pwhex and data file sets uploaded (frozen) (3/21/2007 7:54:25 PM)
pwhex.dat file set 6.66 completed and uploaded - as described - with increased sea space on the Western/NW map edge area data files to follow Cobra has succeeded in moving Melbourne and Pearl Harbor - with some technical complications insofar as units stationed at both need also to be moved. I think this is a dangerous experiment so we will test it first - PH likely having hard coded impacts.

el cid again -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/21/2007 7:56:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Ol_Dog I am sure Sid is referring to the 45s near Gal. Is. on the SE portion of the map Correct. And we have entirely new pwhex files for all to use now available - there are no breaks. There were not before either - but a bad copy is possible. I used to work in WITPExcel - but I find Editor X safer - and slightly easier to work with. It does not lend itself to copying a bunch of records like Excel does though - hard to convert a big set.

CobraAus -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/22/2007 5:08:03 AM)
quote: You have worked like a Tasmanian devil on these maps and now you have us "hooked".. the new 6.66 map panel changes have been posted see postings thread Cobra Aus

Herrbear -> RE: RHS update plans and ETAs (3/29/2007 6:43:27 AM)
Sid -- I notice in Scenario 60 a number of units (USMC Air Wings and USAAF Av Rgt) locations 2761 - 2793 have 0,0 in their Loc X and Loc Y fields. They have a delay so they don't start on the map. Is the location code correct for these units? Where will they appear. There are a number of units like that for both sides besides the sample I am showing you.

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