Aviation Support (Full Version)

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ATCSMike -> Aviation Support (11/3/2006 7:14:15 AM)

How do I increase the amount of aviation support at a base. I can't find it in the manual.

Port Moresby has a requirement of 134 and I have 55 split between the 2 base forces. Will those increase (how) or do I have to move an Aviation Rgt in?

What's the procedure to load units for air transport? I can't load them for some reason. I know I'm doing something wrong, but don't know what. Where in the manual is it?

Mike



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 7:28:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ATCSMike

How do I increase the amount of aviation support at a base. I can't find it in the manual.

Port Moresby has a requirement of 134 and I have 55 split between the 2 base forces. Will those increase (how) or do I have to move an Aviation Rgt in?

What's the procedure to load units for air transport? I can't load them for some reason. I know I'm doing something wrong, but don't know what. Where in the manual is it?

Mike



p144 describes ready + diabled current strength, on lcu info screen press show toe strength to see max strength of unit, see also logistics and replacements in manual.



YankeeAirRat -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 7:31:39 AM)

You will need to move in an additional base forces they are usually listed as engineering units on the ground unit screens at a base.  If you look at a base force in the ground unit selection screen and then click on the unit, you should see a line item that lists aviation support x N. The "N" should be a number and that will tell you how much additional aviation support they will add to your air base.

So for example at Port Morseby you should see a unit that is labeled "101st Base Force" in the ground unit screen they are the one that are providing avaition support to your airbase.



Feinder -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 7:45:55 AM)

quote:

Will those increase


There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.

-F-



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 7:52:48 AM)

Oh, if you want to transport lcu use a/c like C-47 or flying boats you can tell by looking in the a/c group info scrn, first select destination then unit then whether to transport or to pickup and that's it. the unit has to belong to a non-restricted command.



bradfordkay -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:00:55 AM)

Be careful about using air transport for base force units. I know that the radars that are endemic to allied base force units cannot be carried by aircraft. You will find that if you only use air transport to deliver your base forces to their destination, you will leave behind some very important fragments.

This is, of course, on top of the problems that air transported units have with disappearing!



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:05:03 AM)

True I normally transport pure aviation rgts. However I've never suffered from disappearances.



ATCSMike -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:06:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

You will need to move in an additional base forces they are usually listed as engineering units on the ground unit screens at a base. If you look at a base force in the ground unit selection screen and then click on the unit, you should see a line item that lists aviation support x N. The "N" should be a number and that will tell you how much additional aviation support they will add to your air base.

So for example at Port Morseby you should see a unit that is labeled "101st Base Force" in the ground unit screen they are the one that are providing avaition support to your airbase.


I knew ENG units had a aviation support component just didn't know if it increased in game.



ATCSMike -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:07:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

quote:

Will those increase


There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.

-F-


I kind of thought that was the deal but not sure.

Mike



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:12:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ATCSMike

quote:

ORIGINAL: YankeeAirRat

You will need to move in an additional base forces they are usually listed as engineering units on the ground unit screens at a base. If you look at a base force in the ground unit selection screen and then click on the unit, you should see a line item that lists aviation support x N. The "N" should be a number and that will tell you how much additional aviation support they will add to your air base.

So for example at Port Morseby you should see a unit that is labeled "101st Base Force" in the ground unit screen they are the one that are providing avaition support to your airbase.


I knew ENG units had a aviation support component just didn't know if it increased in game.



I think they will if they are below their TOE and the base has sufficient supplies. Somebody?



worr -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:12:49 AM)

I recommend building up AV support before moving an ENG unit to a forward base.

I've found you'll build up the unit much quicker sitting in San Fransico another month rather than taking the first ship to Port Morsbey and hoping the rest of the units and equipment catch up with you later.




ATCSMike -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:40:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Oh, if you want to transport lcu use a/c like C-47 or flying boats you can tell by looking in the a/c group info scrn, first select destination then unit then whether to transport or to pickup and that's it. the unit has to belong to a non-restricted command.


Thanks. I played around with it and got the C47's to transport the units. I am a little confused about the pickup troops option though. Is that used to pick up from another base, ie: C47's at Townsville, the unit for transport is at Cooktown and you want to transport them to PM? Is that what it's used for?

Mike



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 8:56:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ATCSMike

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62

Oh, if you want to transport lcu use a/c like C-47 or flying boats you can tell by looking in the a/c group info scrn, first select destination then unit then whether to transport or to pickup and that's it. the unit has to belong to a non-restricted command.


Thanks. I played around with it and got the C47's to transport the units. I am a little confused about the pickup troops option though. Is that used to pick up from another base, ie: C47's at Townsville, the unit for transport is at Cooktown and you want to transport them to PM? Is that what it's used for?

Mike



Not quite say you want to pick up a unit at Cooktown from Townsville - it's the reverse from transport, but you have start the sequence as if you were going to transport then hit the pickup button,then select the unit hope that made sense. I finally deduced what your problem really was you've got two bf's w/30 av apiece so yea you're going to need more or get one of those big av units + a unit w/engineers and use those other two somewhere else.



wdolson -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 9:52:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.


I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 10:06:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

There is talk in the manual of Base Forces expanding to the size of the base. This is only for the AI. A human players BFs never gain more air support. If you need more air support at a base, you need to move another (or mulitple) base forces in.


I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill



Do you mean larger than their TOE? I've seen units start the game with more but eventually decrease over time.



wdolson -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 10:33:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
Do you mean larger than their TOE? I've seen units start the game with more but eventually decrease over time.


Yes. For example a 30 Av support unit might grow to around 40. If I click on the TOE button, it shows the TOE still says 30. Only a few units have done this. Most have some disabled squads after being at the front for a while. For some reason, one base support unit at Rabaul has been loosing av support right and left. It started out at 270 and is down to close to 200.

Bill



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 2:26:30 PM)

Interesting, I wonder if these units not just bf's but any units that do not match their TOE at game start result in strange behavior of this sort, even the editor manual cautions against this by saying unexpexted results may occur. I've been meaning to look for clear examples like this but have never done any serious testing, I do know a lot of units start out with slight mismatches in their TOE's and few that are even worst. But, in the case where they do match and you still get this behavior then who can say what's causing this.



Sardaukar -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 2:45:01 PM)

Have many types of units to grow oversized. I for example have Soviet Tank Division in CHS now at (519/519)...[X(]. Probably a bug. 



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 2:47:10 PM)

I've seen some units expand to 125% TOE but the % is shown in the top line of the unit screen something like 110/125 so units do grow bigger , esp happens in the west coast. one arty unit went to 150% TOE after i pulled it back from being in palmyra for almost 18 months.

One major annoyance is the rebuilding of Fragments after combat, always never arrive at the theatre HQ, usually townsville and Canton for some wierd reason [&:]. pain finding and shipping tham to the main unit.[:@]



Sardaukar -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 3:03:45 PM)

I think it's said somewhere that units can grow over their TOE when there is lots of excess supply/HQ available.



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 3:41:50 PM)

All I could find in the manual was that normally a unit will get one of each replacement item (per day I assume)if needed as long as it's TOE is greater than ready + diabled of that item plus they're in range of a base with twice its supply, but sometimes the unit can get 2 items if it passes a series of checks.



Sardaukar -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 3:44:22 PM)

I think it was statement by one of the Betas/programmers/someone on forum...buit as usual, could be wrong...[8D]



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/3/2006 3:52:52 PM)

Might be some code they left in by mistake and what you said kind of sounds familiar, just not sure.



ATCSMike -> RE: Aviation Support (11/4/2006 5:07:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson
I have seen base units increase to larger than when they arrived, but the expansion happens very slowly. After many months the units that have grown have only added 10 to 15 aviation support. I haven't figured out how or why they grow.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62
Do you mean larger than their TOE? I've seen units start the game with more but eventually decrease over time.


Yes. For example a 30 Av support unit might grow to around 40. If I click on the TOE button, it shows the TOE still says 30. Only a few units have done this. Most have some disabled squads after being at the front for a while. For some reason, one base support unit at Rabaul has been loosing av support right and left. It started out at 270 and is down to close to 200.

Bill


Sounds like deserters to me. [:D]

Mike



michaelm75au -> RE: Aviation Support (11/4/2006 5:47:23 AM)

In general player's LCUs wont take replacements over the value shown in the TOE. But a number of units start off over their TOE.

But sometimes with fragmented units, the number of devices in the parent is less than TOE because the fragments can't be located (total devices should be the sum of the parent and the fragments). And thus gain replacement devices.
And then the fragment shows up and merges/increases the device total.
Plus, there are/were some cases (which confuses things) where the LCU is given a particular TOE but the device list of the unit defined in the editor does not agree with the TOE list.



bradfordkay -> RE: Aviation Support (11/4/2006 6:37:34 AM)

You really should replace that unit with a fresh one and send it back to a non-malarial base. You've got soldiers dying in that rathole...



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/4/2006 9:34:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

In general player's LCUs wont take replacements over the value shown in the TOE. But a number of units start off over their TOE.

But sometimes with fragmented units, the number of devices in the parent is less than TOE because the fragments can't be located (total devices should be the sum of the parent and the fragments). And thus gain replacement devices.
And then the fragment shows up and merges/increases the device total.
Plus, there are/were some cases (which confuses things) where the LCU is given a particular TOE but the device list of the unit defined in the editor does not agree with the TOE list.



That's what I've got with some of my units so, I just turn off replaements until one of them is destroyed which in my case shouldn't be much longer. Is there not a rule somewhere that states that when the percent of disabled outnumber the ready some of the items will start to die off or something like that? If so where?

Thanks



tsimmonds -> RE: Aviation Support (11/4/2006 4:11:07 PM)

I'm not sure whether it is in TFM, but I believe when an LCU has greater than 50% disablements, some portion of additional disablements are destroyed instead.

Edit: OK, here's what I was thinking of:

14.4 Supply/Fatigue Effects on LCUs

When a unit's fatigue level gets high, elements of the unit will slowly become disabled. When a unit has more disabled elements than non-disabled, it will begin to have elements destroyed instead of just disabled due to high fatigue.



Buck Beach -> RE: Aviation Support (11/4/2006 4:36:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

You really should replace that unit with a fresh one and send it back to a non-malarial base. You've got soldiers dying in that rathole...



My dad spent about 2 1/2 years at Port Moresby during the war and I never recall him mentioning a malaria problem.

Another question that's to late to ask him.



BigJ62 -> RE: Aviation Support (11/4/2006 5:33:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

I'm not sure whether it is in TFM, but I believe when an LCU has greater than 50% disablements, some portion of additional disablements are destroyed instead.

Edit: OK, here's what I was thinking of:

14.4 Supply/Fatigue Effects on LCUs

When a unit's fatigue level gets high, elements of the unit will slowly become disabled. When a unit has more disabled elements than non-disabled, it will begin to have elements destroyed instead of just disabled due to high fatigue.



That's exactly what I was looking, must have gone right passed it, thanks.



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