RE: This is War King 'Nana! (Full Version)

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esteban -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 7:42:21 PM)

In my limited experience, unrestricted submarine warfare has very little effect on the U.S. entry to the war. No more than invading Belgium does.

My opponent in one of my PBEM games went with unrestricted submarine warfare from the start of the game, and by mid-1915 the U.S. looked like it was heading for entry at about the beginning of 1917, as it did historically.



FrankHunter -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 8:21:05 PM)

Well it also depends on luck.  But every time a uboat (on Unrestricted) sinks a transport there is a dice roll and a check made to see if any "outrage" is generated in the US.  



EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 8:29:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

How did Britain get to be wavering? I've never seen that.


Lack of food.



hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 8:47:05 PM)

Britain consumes 10 food per turn.

They produce 1 food (although not on map ?) and can trade up to 14 additional food by trading in North Atlantic (2 per shipping).

So in happy times they store 5 food per turn.

However unless you voluntarily return your transports every 3 turn when Endurance is down to 1 you run into two full turns where they canīt be used for shipping. That is no problem if you have spare transports in reserve for just that purpose but its kinda hard planning for because you want to use them to transport troops as well.

Bottomline you can easily miss a lot of food on such turns.

Add hordes of SUBS on unrestricted SUB warfare and yes its a problem.

So always go for ASW 1 just to be sure [;)]



James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 9:27:23 PM)

How much morale do you lose per point of food you are short?
Isn't wavering 40 morale or less?



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 9:54:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

How did Britain get to be wavering? I've never seen that.


Lack of food.


I always have difficulty with this as well when I play the TE, even without submarines around.

It has lead me to believe that "food" is one of the primary objectives one must target to win the game.

Ray (alias Lava)



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 9:59:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

However unless you voluntarily return your transports every 3 turn when Endurance is down to 1 you run into two full turns where they canīt be used for shipping.


This is the part that still has not quite entered my head.

So in other words, the player needs to return his fleets manually or he faces a 2 month down time.

Correct?

Is it also correct that returning your fleet also costs points right?

So war at sea is pretty darn expensive.

Ray (alias Lava)



FrankHunter -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 10:00:33 PM)

quote:

How much morale do you lose per point of food you are short?


1 per point of food you're lacking.


quote:

Isn't wavering 40 morale or less?


Between 20% and 40%




hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 10:44:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava

quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

However unless you voluntarily return your transports every 3 turn when Endurance is down to 1 you run into two full turns where they canīt be used for shipping.


This is the part that still has not quite entered my head.

So in other words, the player needs to return his fleets manually or he faces a 2 month down time.

Correct?

Is it also correct that returning your fleet also costs points right?

So war at sea is pretty darn expensive.

Ray (alias Lava)


It would seem you have got the hang of it Kaiser Lava. I will try to clarify the matter though.

I think Frank is going to change the current system in next patch but this is how it works now. Each turn consists of 3 naval phases (you don't notice that) and if endurance gets down to 0 during any of these that naval unit is automatically and instantaneously assigned a return order.

Now as all this happens after your strategy phase it means that the naval unit no longer has the expected mission type assigned during that game turn because naval phases are done before your land movement (if i understand it correctly). So if you have Amphibs down to less than 3 in a strategy phase you don't get to use them at all during that game turn because they will be on return order before you are going to ship your chaps around the map. Same goes with shipping and food of course during next strategy phase.

At next strategy phase these naval units will still have a return order - presumably because they didn't spend a whole turn on return order yet so you can't use them there either.

If you remember to look for these things in the strategy phase you may find it better to spend 1 naval unit per voluntarily returned naval unit. In that case you will save one whole turn because you voluntarily assign a return order. But you will pay top price of course.

I haven't so far calculated on the cost for this for the duration of the war but if the Entente is going to do this every 3 turns for transports and each turn for used amphibs i suspect it will pay of rather early with just simply expanding your transport fleet and leave them at sea for as long as possible. This also gives you a reserve against SUBS.



FrankHunter -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 10:47:30 PM)

quote:

I think Frank is going to change the current system in next patch


I did change it and the patch has been handed in.  I changed it so that what you see on your strategic naval orders is what you'll get for the turn.  Also, naval units will return immediately.



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 10:47:42 PM)

I have ordered... after much thought... and many months repairing our ships... to order the High Seas Fleet to patrol the North Atlantic.

A brief, inconclusive naval encounter occurs during transit through the North Sea.

[image]http://www.battle-of-jutland.com/gallery/jutland-battleships/battleship-images/german-battleship-broadside.jpg[/image]

Ray (alias "The Kaiser" Lava)




James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 10:53:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

quote:

How much morale do you lose per point of food you are short?


1 per point of food you're lacking.


quote:

Isn't wavering 40 morale or less?


Between 20% and 40%




Is that a permenant reduction?
If you lift the blockade will you gain morale for having excess food?



FrankHunter -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:09:02 PM)

quote:

Is that a permenant reduction?


Yes

quote:

If you lift the blockade will you gain morale for having excess food?


No, it will just stop dropping.





EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:12:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

quote:

Is that a permenant reduction?


Yes

quote:

If you lift the blockade will you gain morale for having excess food?


No, it will just stop dropping.






Ouch!



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:18:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

Ouch!


I feel your pain.

My imperial subjects have a long memory as well.

Ray (alias "The Kaiser" Lava)



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:35:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

quote:

Is that a permenant reduction?


Yes


Hate to question the designer...

But I have seen Austria regain morale from wavering to good by reconquering a major city (Trieste) that it had lost.

So, I would think that "yes" it is permanent from a food standpoint in that excess supply won't change it, but battlefield fortune can.

At least, that is what I have seen in this PBEM game.

Ray (alias "The Kaiser" Lava)



James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:42:03 PM)

It does seem odd that you can't recover any of the lost morale from food shortages. A breif interuption wouldn't necessarily scar people for life!
On the other hand there aren't many ways to get Britain to lose morale. If you're tkaing British cities then a little food shortage would be the least of their problems [:)]



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:43:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

A breif interuption wouldn't necessarily scar people for life.


Ohhh...

You don't know the Brits!

[;)]

Ray (alias "The Kaiser" Lava)



EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:54:36 PM)

Entente offensive efforts step up a notch.  The Russians attack all across the front in Prussia.  Minimal gains are made but there are heavy casualties on both sides.  Russian artillery, what little they have, joins in the chorus of death.

That'll Do.

On the Western Front massive artillery barrages rain down on the Boche as the French and British artillery corps give it their all with several impulses of maximum effort bombardments.

[img]http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/weapons-ww1-allied/18-pounder2.jpg[/img]

Casualties are now 4.2 million CP to about 4.9 million Entente.



FrankHunter -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:54:50 PM)


S
quote:

o, I would think that "yes" it is permanent from a food standpoint in that excess supply won't change it, but battlefield fortune can.


haha, question me all you want :-)  My feeling was that getting food to eat would not make you support the war.  But lack of food could turn you against it.  Once food is available again there were 3 possibilities I could have taken, a) Keep dropping morale because people are "scarred".  b) Increase morale because people don't expect to be able to eat  and the Kaiser (or whoever) therefore must be a god or c) no effect.  I went with "c"







*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/13/2007 11:58:22 PM)

But Frank...

Can't the UK pull up it's morale by winning on the battlefield?

As I say, that is what happened in my game with Austria.

Ray (alias "The questioning Kaiser" Lava)



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 12:18:45 AM)

Well...

The Russians appear to have made a slight breakthrough in the vicinity of Berlin...

Apparently... I have miscalculated...

[image]http://www.kunsthal.nl/gif/zeppelin.jpg[/image]

Ray (alias "The Kaiser" Lava)



FrankHunter -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 12:22:00 AM)

quote:

Can't the UK pull up it's morale by winning on the battlefield?


Yes, capturing territory and making other powers surrender does tend to make people cheerier.




EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 12:50:27 AM)

Italian Front - very heavily dug in but almost no opposition, the Ities aren't moving though.

Western Front - fairly heavily dug in on my side, not so heavily on the German side.  The Germans are being bled here, assaults are fairly limited.

Eastern Front - Not much artillery in play here.  The Russians periodically batter themselves against the German lines. Every so often, not all the time, they advance a hex.
Only 2 hexes to Berlin though...

Caucasus Front - Quiet after taking a couple of Ottoman towns.

Mesopotamian Front - Some ANZACS have advanced up to Jerusalem and are now staying put.

Sea War - The High Seas Fleet has been sortied it seems, so the Entente navies sally forth. Fortunately a fair few naval assets have been built up.



SMK-at-work -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 1:46:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

It does seem odd that you can't recover any of the lost morale from food shortages. A breif interuption wouldn't necessarily scar people for life!


I can ratinalise it without too much bother.....food is a necessity...control of Trieste is not......if food ever runs out people are going to remember it for a long time - witness the Depression generation and how long they had their behaviour "modified".

Lack of food would cause dissent....which would at least fester if hte situation was rectified....hoarding, increase in black market activities...

All in all I can see good arguments why lack of food would give a permanent drop in morale.



*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 2:01:23 AM)

Well...

I can smell a knockout coming...

... the question is who?

[image]http://www.lifeisajoke.com/Sport/knockout.jpg[/image]

Ray (alias "sucking up the smelling salts - Kaiser" Lava)



TheBlackhorse -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 2:18:38 AM)

Who????? Er, I don't think anyone of us believes it's going to be the TE....unless you've managed to research THE BOMB...



James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 5:30:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SMK-at-work


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward

It does seem odd that you can't recover any of the lost morale from food shortages. A breif interuption wouldn't necessarily scar people for life!


I can ratinalise it without too much bother.....food is a necessity...control of Trieste is not......if food ever runs out people are going to remember it for a long time - witness the Depression generation and how long they had their behaviour "modified".

Lack of food would cause dissent....which would at least fester if hte situation was rectified....hoarding, increase in black market activities...

All in all I can see good arguments why lack of food would give a permanent drop in morale.



From a game point of view I understand why it was done. There really aren't many ways to reduce British morale. Very few capital ships are lost and if the Brits are losing their cities then they are screwed anyway.
It appears that the TE is doing very well in this game, lots of CP town taken, France alive and advancing, the CP on the ropes yet Britain appears to have permanently lost about 60% of their starting morale. If they are still short of food they may surrender the same turn the TE wins the game! [:)]



Joel Rauber -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 5:54:03 AM)

Britain surrendered to me once, apparently from just being starved out.

Looking at the morale I see that Bulgaria is poised to lead the CP coalition[:)]



arabiamark -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 7:44:29 AM)

Perhaps it's time for the good Kaiser to start looking into Dutch real estate?



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