RE: This is War King 'Nana! (Full Version)

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EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 12:49:00 PM)

Nancy falls to the BEF as the offensives grind on on the Western Front.

The French are managing to pull their offensive weight as well as the British it should be said - the Brits have the southern part of the line, and the French the northern, assaulting out of Verdun to the southeast.

[img]http://www.greatwar.nl/miracle/verdunfacts.jpg[/img]

On the Eastern Front the focus of the offensives has shifted back to Vienna again, with more heavy fighting near Brunn.  The town itself is in Entente hands, it's advancing elsewhere which is proving to be the problem.

2 hexes from the capitals of both of the Central Powers though!






*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 1:24:02 PM)

British artillery pound German positions... without response.

[image]http://www.firstworldwar.com/photos/graphics/gw_germanfieldguns_01.jpg[/image]

My valiant army fights on plagued by ammunition shortages...

Ray (aka "The Kaiser" Lava)




EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 4:20:56 PM)

The Boche are falling back in fear of the Entente barrages.

Sensing blood, the assaults continue on the Western Front!




Alan_Bernardo -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 4:40:54 PM)

I don't know, man.  But I'm learning a lot about GoA from reading all this.


Alan




EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 5:15:15 PM)

[img]http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/thumb/200/200/white_flag.jpg[/img]

A German delegation has contacted the Entente requesting an end to hostilities.

"Guerre c'est la guerre..."


[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Ferdinand_Foch_pre_1915.jpg/417px-Ferdinand_Foch_pre_1915.jpg[/img]






TheBlackhorse -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 5:32:43 PM)

So it goes




hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 9:08:42 PM)

Time to train for:

[image]local://upfiles/24483/3BD4E8C936E44F249D94277D59A238B4.jpg[/image]




*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 9:11:57 PM)

Indeed...

We have come to terms and I have officially surrendered to the Triple Entente. Time for the bloodshed to end...

[image]http://www.wfrmuseum.org.uk/Images/poppyfield.jpg[/image]

Ray (alias "the defeated Kaiser" Lava)




*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 9:24:47 PM)

As a postscript...

I would like to thank EUBanana for an excellent and well played game. Well done, mate! You deserve the victory.

In one week we exchanged 50 moves. Not a bad pace.

I began the game fulling understanding that my "attack from the south and move north to Paris" would probably fail, although I have done so against the AI and won.

My interest in this game was centered around what would happen in a long drawn out contest. What issues would arise? What research would be explored? How much would diplomacy effect the outcome? In short, to try to really put the game under a microscope and see how it worked.

I'll need a bit of time to digest it all, but hopefully soon, I will post my thoughts on how it went... the things I discovered, game balance, stuff like that.

Until then, once again, my hat's off to EUBanana as a very determined, implacable opponent.

Ray (alias "No longer the Kaiser" Lava)




mereman -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 9:47:31 PM)

Thanks for that. It was so much fun to watch the outcome. I really must get away from City of Hereos and try another game of GoA[;)]




EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 10:21:49 PM)

Well, for my part Britain almost went out after just a few turns of U-boats having some fun. 

I worked on ASW research from about January 1915 on.

Fear the U-boat.  I'm inclined to take a more naval view of things from the CP point of view in future games.




hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 11:02:43 PM)

Just remember it takes about two years time to research one level of ASW so the longer research is postponed the higher price you must expect to pay in the other end [;)]

Unrestricted SUB warfare will really piss off America but if you plan on taking Russia down hitting British Transports and food import will bring you a long way accomplishing that. It's not that Russia swims in food as it is.




*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 11:11:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

food


One of the things I became highly aware of in this game.

In fact, when I play now, the resources are always turned on so I can see where they are and integrate that into my strategy.

Ray (alias Lava)




James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 11:21:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

Just remember it takes about two years time to research one level of ASW so the longer research is postponed the higher price you must expect to pay in the other end [;)]

Unrestricted SUB warfare will really piss off America but if you plan on taking Russia down hitting British Transports and food import will bring you a long way accomplishing that. It's not that Russia swims in food as it is.


You might be better off just buying more transports and hoping your DD's can get a hit or two on the German subs.




SteveD64 -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 11:27:01 PM)

Nice AAR!  Looking forward to your comments on the game, Lava.




hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 11:35:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: James Ward


quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

Just remember it takes about two years time to research one level of ASW so the longer research is postponed the higher price you must expect to pay in the other end [;)]

Unrestricted SUB warfare will really piss off America but if you plan on taking Russia down hitting British Transports and food import will bring you a long way accomplishing that. It's not that Russia swims in food as it is.


You might be better off just buying more transports and hoping your DD's can get a hit or two on the German subs.



Well there are no law against hope [8|]

The research cost of level 1 ASW equals production cost of 6 to 7 transports. You can expect to get something like 3 years benefit of ASW level 1 so if you loose one transport less each three turns after getting that tech you will come out with even money. Off course you should add + 25 % bonus chance for each DD on ASW duty finding a SUB and hurting it [;)]




James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 11:40:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

Well there are no law against hope [8|]

The research cost of level 1 ASW equals production cost of 6 to 7 transports. You can expect to get something like 3 years benefit of ASW level 1 so if you loose one transport less each three turns after getting that tech you will come out with even money. Off course you should add + 25 % bonus chance for each DD on ASW duty finding a SUB and hurting it [;)]


I suppose it depends on how many subs the Germans have. There are a lot of TE transports available at the start and the first few turns you really do expect to lose any transports given there are only 2 Germans subs. So it might be better to invest in Naval points, you're going to need them anyway so a few more won't hurt.
In your HTH games how many transports do you usually have sunk by the time you get to ASW 1?




James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/14/2007 11:45:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

You can expect to get something like 3 years benefit of ASW level 1 so if you loose one transport less each three turns after getting that tech you will come out with even money. Off course you should add + 25 % bonus chance for each DD on ASW duty finding a SUB and hurting it [;)]


Isn't the benefit of ASW only that you have a better chance with your DD's or does it also make your transports harder to hit?




hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 12:04:51 AM)

Losses on transports depends very much on number of built SUBS and whether unrestricted SUB warfare is being pursued.

The point is you will never know if CP is going heavy for SUBS and if you discover in say early 1916 that you are being haunted with 8 to 10 SUBS on unrestricted SUB warfare you can kiss goodbye to Britain without ASW because your people will have starved to death before you can research ASW.

In a test game each SUB (8 in all) gave on average 2,5 hits each turn (for a duration of 4 turns) and with each transport being able to sustain 2 hits you do the math [:D]

Sure some SUBS were damaged in the process but no big deal.

But you will notice when the Entente gets ASW - ouch [X(]




James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 1:15:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

Losses on transports depends very much on number of built SUBS and whether unrestricted SUB warfare is being pursued.

The point is you will never know if CP is going heavy for SUBS and if you discover in say early 1916 that you are being haunted with 8 to 10 SUBS on unrestricted SUB warfare you can kiss goodbye to Britain without ASW because your people will have starved to death before you can research ASW.

In a test game each SUB (8 in all) gave on average 2,5 hits each turn (for a duration of 4 turns) and with each transport being able to sustain 2 hits you do the math [:D]

Sure some SUBS were damaged in the process but no big deal.

But you will notice when the Entente gets ASW - ouch [X(]


That would certainly be tough to stomach.
When I play the AI I generally have a large stash of extra food in Britian early on but then again I've never seen the AI be very aggressive with U-Boats even in the scenarios.
As for feeding Britian the U-boat don't generally venture into the Eastern Med so you can usually count on some food each turn even if there are a lot of u-boats in the North Atlantic.
I suppose the counter to that is to keep inflicting losses on Germany and not let them spend 20 or so point to build new U-boats and to vary how you get your food!




hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 1:53:59 AM)

You don't get food from trading in the western med [;)]




SMK-at-work -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 3:30:58 AM)

He said eastern med.....[:'(]




hjaco -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 3:40:45 AM)

You should not read what i write but what i mean [:D]




*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 2:25:41 PM)

Okay...

Time for a post-mortum.

As the CP player, the first thing that happened was that my initial plan was flawed.

Look at this screen and you see "the plan" shown by the black arrows.

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/lavaslair/Game1.jpg[/image]

My intent was to capture the city of Lyon, but the way I did it took way too many of my forces too far south.

In retrospect, I should have followed a main thrust more like the one marked in red.

The red route would have kept my main forces in contact with the French, allowing me to engage them, force the French to extend their defensive line and splinter off a force to clean up south of my attack, taking the two food hexes and Lyon.

Ray (alias Lava)




*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 2:32:35 PM)

Okay..

Here is a shot from the game which illustrates what I mean:

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/lavaslair/Game2.jpg[/image]

Notice how much force has gone southward. Way too much! Also note the push I made North (the 13th Corps). A bad move as it does nothing to help stretch out the French and instead pins down my own forces which could have been used in the offensive.

You can see a gaping hole there by Kluck and I should have exploited that immediately, instead I pressed southward towards Lyon.

Operationally, I made a lot of bad moves here because I was too focused on Lyon and not outmaneuvering the French.

Ray (alias Lava)




*Lava* -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 2:49:33 PM)

And...

Here you see the result of that movement:

[image]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v732/lavaslair/Game3.jpg[/image]

By the time I am able to move the majority of my forces up North, the BEF has arrived to stablize the flank. At this point my forces should have been in Orleans with cavalry covering my flank... not the other way around.

Notice Fabeck with a large force is directly south of Paris heading north... [:-]

He should have been with the 27th, moving towards Orleans. Because I failed to stretch out the TE in France and instead allow them to concentrate their defense, I ran into a stone wall... or trenches in this case.

I do have to say in mitigation that I was also testing out the effects of gas in this game. So I wanted to hit big concentrations of TE forces with gas and try to exploit its effect. The gas did seem to be quite good at provoking large drops in proficiency, but because I was attacking directly into a concentrated area, I believe the TE was able to replace mauled corps and hold their line intact.

In effect I was trying a brute force offensive backed by gas. My use of gas at level one was poor, level two was much better as I realized that only one barrage of gas into the defending hex was sufficient to get the effect I wanted and to not expend all the gas on the same impulse.

Nevertheless... it didn't work. I know you need to spreed out the TE as much as possible to make them vulnerable to crushing attacks, but I did not do that in this game, and so, the offensive came to a halt.

Chalk one up to experience.

Ray (alias Lava)




James Ward -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 7:55:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hjaco

You don't get food from trading in the western med [;)]


Unless you get 18 food for 7 transports in the North Atlanitc you get food from the Med.




EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 8:07:53 PM)

On the Western Front I kept a pretty solid line between your forces and Paris at all times. 

Casualties were acceptable in the French Army in my northern force (the guys who got cut off around Dijon had a rough time) - there were a lot of shattered units behind the front but I didn't feel like the front was seriously threatened at any point.

Needless to say all those shattered units were digging trenches, so my defensive line was 2 or 3 hexes deep at all times.

When we reached stalemate after the BEF had stabilised the line, I had three choices on the Western Front really.

a) Drive down from Verdun towards the Swiss border and cut you off

b) Sit tight, conduct attritional warfare with artillery barrages but few attacks

c) recapture the lost ground and drive the Germans back to the border by main force.


a) would have required a major redeployment of my forces, as the BEF alone had the offensive power to accomplish such a move.  That would've taken a few turns and likely told you what was going on.  Given I figured it would be a high risk, high casualty option, I discarded that.

b) was tempting, but Entente food and raw material supplies at this point were bad indeed.  This was about the same time the Uboats were ripping me apart, and French industry was down to 7 or 8 points a turn.  So not an option.

In the end I went for c), on the grounds that no redeployment was necessary and only limited gains were required to recapture the resource hexes that I'd lost.  Turned out it was a harder slog than I expected, so it was likely the best choice.



On the Eastern Front my initial plan was to secure Poland by taking Danzig and Konigsberg, and soon as that was done, drive SW from Poland towards Vienna.  Vienna is only 4 hexes from the border, after all.  The securing Poland bit was fine, the drive to Vienna was stopped 2 hexes away.  But it proved to be such a serious threat to the CPs that I saw German troops defending around Vienna very early in the game, like Jan 1915 ish.  I considered that pretty good going.

Russia had serious HQ issues pretty much throughout the game, but I had no spare industry to deal with them.  Their arms reserves were actually pretty adequate, I had some smashed up A corps behind the lines but not very many, and almost all the Russian attacks were conducted with full strength or nearly full strength A corps.  I guess that just showed where my industrial priorities were.

The naval war I managed to screw up horrifically.  You should have continued the sub offensive as at the time I had no counter to it.  I noticed one sub got 2 hits from a French DD, was it that that put you off?  In any case two more rounds of that and Britain woulda been toast.

The opportunity soon passed you by though as when I realised the error of my ways I bought ~100 naval assets as Britain and kept them well topped up despite a major transport building program.  I went from a low point of 5 British transports to at the end having about 15 as a result (thats kinda why the BEF paused when they reached Metz).  Progress would have continued on the western front anyway though IMO as the BEF was mostly entirely fresh, so the lack of an arms stockpile wouldnt have mattered.




EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 8:14:17 PM)

One issue I had with the BEF, I dunno if you noticed, but the BEF had almost no artillery units until quite late on - and when they did have guns they didnt have much ammo.  It was always French guns that were plentiful and well supplied with ammo.  Partly due to my industrial priorities (Frogs were staying put so focus was on trenches and barrages, British were advancing so it was mostly arms/HQs and naval assets), but also partly because getting stuff over from Britain was hard work.

One factor for the success of the U boat campaign was that I'd already lost a lot of food by having a lot of transports on troop transport missions to no avail because the sea space always ended up contested.  Which might seem a dumb move but as events transpired the BEF was crucial and badly needed so it was probably worth it.




EUBanana -> RE: This is War King 'Nana! (9/15/2007 8:15:48 PM)

I do find it curious that Lava set so much focus on Lyons, as far as I was concerned the city was always expendable, right from the start.  [:D]




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