RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (Full Version)

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Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 10:58:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner


I don't want to comment despite Roger is right...i should own you an explanation....but i think those of you who followed this war know already without anything that is needed to be said.






You don't owe us any explanation GH.

Roger



TenChiMato -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 12:06:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Well my vote is for continuing the AAR and publishing it after the game ends. I know it won’t be as fun without the community input and your writers morale may ultimately fail you, but I personally would like to read a play by play of this game after it is over. Perhaps just weekly updates would be sufficient.

So many people have invested so much to this AAR, I’m sure many would agree with me and would love to see a finished AAR some day.

As to why Troll did this, my guess is it's due to immaturity and a fragile ego pure and simple. He probably expected everyone to faun all over him and tell him how great of a player he was after all his gamey tactics allowed him to *rush* G.H.’s holdings in India.

But when that didn’t happen and everyone gravitated to his opponent it crushed his fragile ego and he probably can't deal with the amount of interest in G.H.'s side of the game anymore. From what I can tell, Troll is that kind of a gamer where winning is everything no matter what.

I don’t even think he understands the concept of enjoying the journey no matter who wins. To him he probably thinks those of us who play the game simply to enjoy the game are nuts.

Jim


I once met a guy who was very similar in behavior with Troll. He eventually wrecked his life and even at the dusk of it never seemed to have learned.

Imo its a waste of time to even think Troll will someday understand let even respect our point of view. The best thing we can do is move on.

Best of the very best General, as Roger said you owe us no explanation. On the contrary we all owe you for the quality of this AAR and the time you spent on it.

Many thanks and many future victories[;)]







Alfred -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 1:32:00 PM)

General Hoepner should call the bluff and continue the AAR.  The worst that could happen if the AAR is continued and published concurrently is for his opponent to quit the game.  If that occurs then what is the loss?  His opponent would not have the satisfaction of claiming or believing that GH surrendered, he could not disguise, even to himself, that he in fact surrendered by not continuing the game.

Continuing to publish an AAR does not constitute any grounds for terminating the game because:

(a) no HRs are broken,
(b) no gameyness is involved,
(c) GH is not the receipient of any forbidden intel,
(d) this AAR is closed so how can his opponent be affected by anything which is said here - he could only have knowledge of this AAR through unethical means by either himself or a third party.

By caving in (again), GH is not ensuring that the game will continue.  What will happen if Chungking holds?  Or the surprise that his opponent said was about to occur fizzles out?  Or if the Allied counterattack from Australia/PM that is being prepared is successful?  Or anything happens which suggests that his opponent is not the greatest conqueror since Genghis Khan and the best undisputed WITP player?  Methinks then another ultimatum from his opponent would be made.

Alfred  



skrewball -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 2:32:10 PM)

What if GH emailed his combat reports to someone else and THEY wrote the AAR [:D] I seem to remember someone did this way back when.

Despite all the gameiness and general unpleasantness...I have enjoyed GH's valiant defense and counter-punches...I really want to see what comes next!



Mike Scholl -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 4:53:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns
As to why Troll did this, my guess is it's due to immaturity and a fragile ego pure and simple. He probably expected everyone to faun all over him and tell him how great of a player he was after all his gamey tactics allowed him to *rush* G.H.’s holdings in India.

But when that didn’t happen and everyone gravitated to his opponent it crushed his fragile ego and he probably can't deal with the amount of interest in G.H.'s side of the game anymore. From what I can tell, Troll is that kind of a gamer where winning is everything no matter what.

I don’t even think he understands the concept of enjoying the journey no matter who wins. To him he probably thinks those of us who play the game simply to enjoy the game are nuts.

Jim


This is exactly the reason I've always been screaming "Get the BASIC game historically right!" The Troll and his ilk don't want anything to do with reality, they want a "game" they can fold, spindle, mutilate, and drive a truck through every loophole of. History's "handcuff's" they avoid like the plague (unless they can impose their own warped version of them on their opponant).

Was the basic scenario historically accurate, you wouldn't have to worry about stumbling into a TROLLELITE in a PBEM game..., because you would only find him in the more "wild and wooly" of the mods. Then you could chose to deal with him or not.

I admire AH's moderation and dogged determination to keep the struggle and the AAR going..., and if he want's to quit the AAR, I'll miss it..., but that's his choice. I wish him nothing but the best. I'm beginning to suspect he has a bit of masochism in him..., but we all have our foibles.



Nemo121 -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 6:54:04 PM)

Well Mike, not everyone who wants to play an ahistorical game is a Trollelite. Please don't lump us all in with him. My game with jagdfluger sure as hell isn't to everyone's taste ( we have Soviet fighters over India, Japan invading CONUSA and about to take all of Oz, German fighters and the Amerika-bomber running riot etc etc ) BUT while it may be a "far out" PBEM neither opponent is seeking unfair advantage through house rules. So, please don't lump myself or jagdfluger in with the sort of House Rules shennanigans which went on in this game.



Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 7:27:24 PM)

Its kind of ironical that a possible reason for the dropping of this AAR might have been to stop the discussion of the tactics of a certain gentlemen and in fact it seems to had had the opposite effect to date!

Roger



String -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 8:57:36 PM)

Methinks someone thought that his opponent was getting too much guidance from other forum members and didn't like that. AFAIK that someone has been complaining about it before.



cantona2 -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:11:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

Methinks someone thought that his opponent was getting too much guidance from other forum members and didn't like that. AFAIK that someone has been complaining about it before.

About this AAR or another?



Fishbed -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:11:18 PM)

Hey aren't we a team?!
Troll said many times he's one of the best players around here. Facing GH alone or GH together with his councellors shouldn't bother him that much. I mean, if he's really that good, he should know that having a dozen brains together doesn't mean you think a dozen times faster. Especially when you see what kind of advices we may provide here sometimes [:D] [;)]



2ndACR -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:18:47 PM)

Well, GH is alot better than me........I would have told him to shove 90% of his HR demands. Anyone can be a great player if you tie your opponents hands behind his back. And then I would have told him to shove it the moment he started his whining about something...............especially an AAR I spent alot of time with like GH did.

Of course, what better way to humiliate a guy than to thrash him when staying within his HR's.



Fishbed -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:21:40 PM)

quote:

Well, GH is alot better than me........I would have told him to shove 90% of his HR demands. Anyone can be a great player if you tie your opponents hands behind his back.


Well I wouldn't like to comment any further on GH's questionable preferences, but looks to me that this man definitely likes to be tied-up by his partners. If you're looking for real hardcore action you know who to ask guys! [:D] [;)]



pauk -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:24:56 PM)



Ah Fishbed, you are not in China anymore? Just hollidays or party in China is over?[:)]



Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:36:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

Methinks someone thought that his opponent was getting too much guidance from other forum members and didn't like that. AFAIK that someone has been complaining about it before.

That is, of course, an understandable reason for getting upset. I'm sure most players might get upset if they realised they were not simply taking on an opponent, but a whole A team! in such a situation surely a request to not do that would have been sufficient? I am sure GH would have guaranteed that if asked.

It is an interesting issue the whole one of 'advice'. One of the reasons I have enjoyed playing in team games is the learning and advice I get from others. However when playing a single game there has to be an openness about whether advice is being given - and taken. I have seen some advice given here - but mainly it wasn't taken. OTOH its a pretty good way of learning things! I guess its another one of those things that has to be 'ironed out' with your opponent.

Of course it could be argued that Troll's posture almost made us root for GH.....

Of course we are still only making assumptions as there has been no response from whoever told GH to shut this down!

Roger



Fishbed -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:39:50 PM)

quote:

Ah Fishbed, you are not in China anymore? Just hollidays or party in China is over?


Ho man! Party in China is over since August already, and as far as I know, it's not party time for everyone in China right now (and you can trust me, it's not gonna get any better).

By the way, you left us, GH leaves us now, are you guys looking for a forum mass-seppuku or something? Maybe Im blind, but I didn't see anywhere why you finally abandoned us - the fact that you're becoming a family guy doesn't say it all [:'(]



Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 9:44:14 PM)

I have become concerned that if it was Trollelite that insisted GH stop this AAR the traffic on here is likely to make him feel he has been ignored and he will 'duck out' of the game. Can we close the thread now and add comments on the one I began - the ploute request one. He is able to read them there should he wish to.

Given GH has done everything he can to keep this game going it would be really ironic if we actually gave cause for the game to be shut down.

Roger



dekwik -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/22/2008 11:46:40 PM)

This is a real shame. This AAR thread had a kind of Luke Skywalker versus Darth Vadar feel to it. And even Vadar had redeeming qualities. Troll was at the pinnacle of our community, and much as many complained, I certainly respected his ability. I thought he got a bad press sometimes based on his language skills. But now I wouldn't play him if he was the only player in the world. He's probably not missing that much, but I bet there's many good players out there who feel the same way......



1275psi -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/23/2008 9:59:11 AM)

OK

Im playing GH at the moment, as japan, and I love AARs, and it looks like Im about to have to finish one as a bug has killed Tabpub and my game - a gazillion posts too[8|][:(].
Im writing a AAR of a different nature on the game against GH -and its a game a million miles from trolls type of game.

So - a little help - can I ask everyone to put the hard sell on GH to start an AAR on his game against me? Every game I play and write i never at the end get to see my opponents view -Tabpub was pretty intermittant.

As the dual creator with Wobbly of the dual AAR, Im hardly going to give problems am I[:)]

Just a thought.
I too am very dis apointed to hear about this -as an oponent he rates very, very highly.
PS - Tabpub does too!! -extreme disapointment there i must say!



witpqs -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/23/2008 8:55:11 PM)

GH - My advice is too continue the AAR. Let Troll man-up or not.

The way I see it, he will quit the game whenever he pleases anyway. So far you have a game that has been frustrating due to gamey tactics and an AAR you like. If you stop the AAR the game just might stop on a whim anyway. If you continue the AAR, the game might still continue. But here's the clincher - within hours of the Troll game ending you can have another game going with one of many players who will offer and an AAR.

If you stop the AAR, you definitely lose out on what you enjoy. If you continue the game, you definitely win with what you enjoy. Think about it.



FeurerKrieg -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/24/2008 5:55:54 AM)

I'm not surprised by this. Sometime ago I ended my subscription to this thread - mainly because I expected troll to just up and quit when some battle didn't go his way. This is about the same thing.

It really is a shame to see such a good, honest opponent (GH) go to waste playing a pointless one sided game. But I suppose if GH is enjoying, then so be it. Fishbed might be onto something with the masochism though...



Feinder -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/24/2008 7:27:19 AM)

quote:

Methinks someone thought that his opponent was getting too much guidance from other forum members and didn't like that. AFAIK that someone has been complaining about it before.


I gotta respectfully disagree with you String.

While TE might indicate that he is the victim of having to play vs the suggestions of half the forum (maybe his has, maybe he hasnt), he set himself up for that with all his chest thumping and his dubvious "strategies". Frankly GE has played his own game, and taken the high-road at evey turn (good for you, thus making his staying it so much the better). I think the simpler and more likely explanation is that TE hit his high-water mark, he's not going to get an auto-vicotry, and he doesn't want to face the music. Something tells me if TE was still rolling, the AAR would be on as well.

-F-



mlees -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/24/2008 10:06:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: String

Methinks someone thought that his opponent was getting too much guidance from other forum members and didn't like that. AFAIK that someone has been complaining about it before.


That's what I was thinking.

I mean, if GH was getting advice and tips from a half dozen or so players in the forums, Trollelite might feel that he was not getting GH's, and only GH's game, but Trollelite vs. several players at once.

I can sorta see why Trollelite might want a "gag order".

How about this compromise:

GH can post his moves to the AAR, but on a delay (a "week" of game time? a month?), so that any advice offered by the forum is a tad too late, as events have already moved far past that point.



Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/25/2008 2:02:08 AM)

Based on the assumption that it was Trollelite who said to shut down the AAR - which may well be a good assumption to make its interesting that every time I have dropped by over this long weekend there has been no sign of him anywhere - so its all a bit irrelevant - he's not listening, if its him who ought to be.

Roger



Fishbed -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/25/2008 2:37:49 AM)

Well maybe he does. One doesn't need to login to read all this, you know that Roger. Especially knowing that logging in may easily betray you now and then ^^



aztez -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/25/2008 9:17:22 PM)

No word what actually happened here? Why?

What is the actual reason why this AAR was "banned"?

This whole episode does not make much sense at all.



Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/26/2008 1:21:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

Well maybe he does. One doesn't need to login to read all this, you know that Roger. Especially knowing that logging in may easily betray you now and then ^^


Surely that is the action of an unspeakable cad only and no gentleman would stoop so low?

Of course anyone not in uniform found behind enemy lines can be treated as a saboteur and shot out of hand.......

Roger



Fishbed -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/26/2008 1:22:21 AM)

quote:

Of course anyone not in uniform found behind enemy lines can be treated as a saboteur and shot out of hand.......

Do pink underpants qualify as a uniform?
Just want to check if there'll be friendly fire out there...



Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/26/2008 1:25:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

No word what actually happened here? Why?

What is the actual reason why this AAR was "banned"?

This whole episode does not make much sense at all.


No-one is absolutely sure as the person who insisted upon the ban has not seen fit to explain this at all. At the same time GH has been bound by a gagging order.

The consensus seems to point the finger at Trollelite and the assumption is that he didn't like the way people were offering advice to GH. However that would indicate that Trollelite has been reading an AAR that he should not have done, or that someone has been passing info to Trollelite. However its all supposition and the only way the mystery will be solved is for the person who insisted on the ban to state why this happened. Until then it joins the great mysteries of the world - to be speculated upon until the end of time......

Roger



Roger Neilson II -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/26/2008 1:26:31 AM)

Well the Theban Sacred band may have worn them.......

Roger



okami -> RE: The AAR is closed. Thanks to everybody! (3/27/2008 10:41:03 PM)

Bump. GH may not be able to respond on this thread, but I for one do not adhere to underhanded action. If just the mere presence of this thread on the first page brings discomfort to the Troll.... my work is done.



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