PWHEX editing (Full Version)

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el cid again -> PWHEX editing (12/12/2007 8:52:38 PM)

There appears to be a formal decision not to permit pwhex editing for AE.

There can be no doubt an editor exists - or pwhex would not be made. It would not be labor efficient.

However, note that no official pwhex editor exists for WITP I either. Yet such editors exist - four I know of (two available to the public) - and whatever Matrix used in the first place. It is unlikely we will go very long without such an editor.

If somehow pwhex cannot be done, serious mods (like CHS, or WITM) could not be done in the AE system. I think it would promote the game being sold if there were more options. I think an official editor should be released - and in fact sooner than the game itself is released. PWhexing is time consuming - and map work could begin as soon as the map is finalized. If there is no ALCAN - no way to alter routing of roads, etc - the game is a whole lot less interesting - and omissions from stock will be impossible. Releasing editors is a way to get free labor enhancing Matrix products: not to do it is not in the best interests of the community or Matrix.



Kereguelen -> RE: PWHEX editing (12/12/2007 9:19:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

There appears to be a formal decision not to permit pwhex editing for AE.



quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
My goodness!

First, it is probably premature to really be making "buy" or "no buy" decisions. There will be plenty of time for that.

Second, I don't think we've ever said there wouldn't be an editor-X equivalent for pwhexE - though we haven't committed to it either. And note that we did hire the creator of editor-X to build the AE editor!
:)

Third, the new pwhexE format is actually simplier than the old format was (no packed data), so even if we did not include an pwhexE editor, I'll bet it would not be more than 1-2 weeks before the MOD community get one out there. As you say, this is a pretty darn Sierra Hotel MOD community, AB made his first map (as a member of the MOD community) in about 3 months after the game was released. And he did it all on his own. James wrote editor-X on his own, etc. Now yes we co-opted some of the MOD community to help us with AE - but that doesnt mean 10 other guys can't do it.

But I suspect James will get an equivalent into the AE editor at some point, he does have other priorities right now.


Quoting Joe from another thread...



BigJ62 -> RE: PWHEX editing (12/12/2007 9:40:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

There appears to be a formal decision not to permit pwhex editing for AE.

There can be no doubt an editor exists - or pwhex would not be made. It would not be labor efficient.

However, note that no official pwhex editor exists for WITP I either. Yet such editors exist - four I know of (two available to the public) - and whatever Matrix used in the first place. It is unlikely we will go very long without such an editor.

If somehow pwhex cannot be done, serious mods (like CHS, or WITM) could not be done in the AE system. I think it would promote the game being sold if there were more options. I think an official editor should be released - and in fact sooner than the game itself is released. PWhexing is time consuming - and map work could begin as soon as the map is finalized. If there is no ALCAN - no way to alter routing of roads, etc - the game is a whole lot less interesting - and omissions from stock will be impossible. Releasing editors is a way to get free labor enhancing Matrix products: not to do it is not in the best interests of the community or Matrix.



There will map data editing included eventually, when exactly I don’t know. Currently working on lcu AI, debugging and merging data. Excel was used to enter data for this project. Putting in a new view in AE Editor is not trivial and will involve a lot of controls so please try to be patient.

Thanks



hueglin -> RE: PWHEX editing (12/12/2007 11:32:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigJ62


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

There appears to be a formal decision not to permit pwhex editing for AE.

There can be no doubt an editor exists - or pwhex would not be made. It would not be labor efficient.

However, note that no official pwhex editor exists for WITP I either. Yet such editors exist - four I know of (two available to the public) - and whatever Matrix used in the first place. It is unlikely we will go very long without such an editor.

If somehow pwhex cannot be done, serious mods (like CHS, or WITM) could not be done in the AE system. I think it would promote the game being sold if there were more options. I think an official editor should be released - and in fact sooner than the game itself is released. PWhexing is time consuming - and map work could begin as soon as the map is finalized. If there is no ALCAN - no way to alter routing of roads, etc - the game is a whole lot less interesting - and omissions from stock will be impossible. Releasing editors is a way to get free labor enhancing Matrix products: not to do it is not in the best interests of the community or Matrix.



There will map data editing included eventually, when exactly I don’t know. Currently working on lcu AI, debugging and merging data. Excel was used to enter data for this project. Putting in a new view in AE Editor is not trivial and will involve a lot of controls so please try to be patient.

Thanks



Thanks for the response about this issue. This is more promising news than we had heard so far.



mikemike -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/13/2007 3:49:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

I have yet to spend much time reviewing the location of naval shipyards. It is on the list though, so any useful information is welcome.

Andrew


Some additional data from the same source (Weyer 1918):

Britain - Navy yards

Bombay: 6 drydocks, one of them for major units

Calcutta: 3 drydocks for smaller units

(both of the above actually owned by the Indian Goernment)

Hong Kong: 3 drydocks, one for major units, Navy repair yard

France - State yards

Saigon 2 drydocks, 1 floating dock for minor units, repair yard

Diego Suarez 1 drydock for major units, 1 floating dock; repair facility

Japan - Navy yards

Takeshiki, Tsushima: 1 floating dock, repair facility with 200 employees

USA - Navy yards

Olongapo, Philipines: Repair facility, 1 floating dock



Andrew Brown -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/13/2007 4:20:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mikemike


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

I have yet to spend much time reviewing the location of naval shipyards. It is on the list though, so any useful information is welcome.

Andrew


Some additional data from the same source (Weyer 1918):

Britain - Navy yards

Bombay: 6 drydocks, one of them for major units

Calcutta: 3 drydocks for smaller units

(both of the above actually owned by the Indian Goernment)

Hong Kong: 3 drydocks, one for major units, Navy repair yard

France - State yards

Saigon 2 drydocks, 1 floating dock for minor units, repair yard

Diego Suarez 1 drydock for major units, 1 floating dock; repair facility

Japan - Navy yards

Takeshiki, Tsushima: 1 floating dock, repair facility with 200 employees

USA - Navy yards

Olongapo, Philipines: Repair facility, 1 floating dock


Thanks mikemike. Greatly appreciated.

Andrew



Andrew Brown -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/13/2007 8:40:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

Andrew Brown-

1) You saw that list of ship yards in that link posted about Japan at the end of the war?


Not yet. I will take a look when I have time to do so, however.

quote:

2) So is The Columbia now a place whear ships arive at(Liberity ships,escorts,ect?)Portland/Vancover/Astoria?


Portland and Astoria are in the game, so yes ships can arrive there. But ship arrival locations are being handled by the Navy team.

quote:

3) Blimp's, so the Large fixed Blimp bases like Tillamook, are they in game?

Link for Tillamook NAS: http://www.nastillamook.org/


Tillamook is also included. But you will have to ask the Air team about blimps. My understanding is that blimps are included in some capacity. I don't know the details.

Andrew



duckenf -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/13/2007 4:38:49 PM)

any chance of posting screenshots of the off-map hexes, Panama, Aden, etc?



mikemike -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/13/2007 7:55:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown



Thanks mikemike. Greatly appreciated.

Andrew


You're welcome, Andrew. A word of caution here: the docks described as suitable for major combat ships (in the original: Grosskampfschiffe, meaning battleships and battlecruisers ) were in 1918 thought to be able to handle dreadnoughts. Early dreadnoughts were 600 feet long or less, so by WWII these docks might have been too short to handle CA's or anything bigger.

The facility on Tsushima may have been the preecursor of those mobile units el Cid again mentioned. Doesn't seem likely that it was intended to maintain anything bigger than destroyers, not with just 200 workers.



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/13/2007 9:33:03 PM)

Can you post a list of all the new on map bases please?

Will Tahiti be added?



Gunner98 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/13/2007 10:26:01 PM)

Could you explain the Off-map connections.  I read somwhere that they included East Coast US & Canada, where else?  Why are they important?  What are they used for - production, ship repair?



Mifune -> RE: PWHEX editing (12/14/2007 12:46:11 AM)

"please try to be patient." Thank you BigJ62, at least your words are encouraging. You have provided editorX, for that I am quite grateful. Also you have been very responsive when the occasion needed to be. I would not want to go on without such a similarly functioned utility available for the AE WitP community. With your words I will show patient for now.



Kereguelen -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 1:06:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

Can you post a list of all the new on map bases please?

Will Tahiti be added?


Lol, poor Andrew. You're talking about hundreds of bases.

Tahiti is on the map.



VSWG -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 1:12:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

Can you post a list of all the new on map bases please?

Will Tahiti be added?


Lol, poor Andrew. You're talking about hundreds of bases.

Tahiti is on the map.

A picture says more than a thousand words... [;)] Maybe an early release of the map art in order to fan the hype? [:D]



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 1:23:53 AM)

Are you kidding me? There are hundreds of new on map bases?
Hundreds???
I dreamed of a couple dozen added, but not in the hundreds!!!

A picture of the entire map would be great.



Captain Cruft -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 2:25:58 AM)

Well although the hexes have only gotten a third smaller the total number of them (or area covered) is at least 2.25 times more. So you would expect at least twice the number of bases without even accounting for the larger slot limit.

Concrete examples I have seen are a) Ceylon goes from 2 to 5 bases and b) the Okinawa "cluster" goes from 2 to 6 bases.

P.S. Yes a piccie would be good! [;)]



rockmedic109 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 2:53:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

Can you post a list of all the new on map bases please?

Will Tahiti be added?


Lol, poor Andrew. You're talking about hundreds of bases.

Tahiti is on the map.


Hundreds????

Excuse me while I clean the drool off my keyboard.



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 3:40:59 AM)

Im sorry, I'm not interested in previous bases taking up more hexes, I was wondering how many new bases there will be, like Tahiti for example.



Don Bowen -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 3:54:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

Im sorry, I'm not interested in previous bases taking up more hexes, I was wondering how many new bases there will be, like Tahiti for example.



It's actually mentioned up a bit in this thread but, yes, Tahiti is in. Several of the Society Islands are in.

Much too early for actual number of new bases - that count will have to wait.

I can tell you that Malaybalay is not in...





Blackhorse -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 5:21:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Could you explain the Off-map connections.  I read somwhere that they included East Coast US & Canada, where else?  Why are they important?  What are they used for - production, ship repair?


That, and more.

Many US reinforcements arrive on the East Coast ready to be shipped to the Pacific *if* the Allied player can spare the transport. If not, the LCUs can move more slowly overland to the West Coast.

If the Japanese break the line of communication between the US and Australia, reinforcements can be diverted from the East Coast (or from the Pacific, via the Panama Canal) to Capetown, then to India.

As the war in Europe winds down in 1945, a lot of US and UK reinforcements appear in England, available to be shipped to the Pacific.

There are other routes, too. Andrew has done a magnificent job.

You've got the whole world in your hands. [sm=innocent0009.gif]




spence -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 6:31:41 AM)

If there is to be a Rising Sun (Conquest of the DEI) scenario the map area needs to be large enough that the British can withdraw ships if necessary (i.e. have at least one of the withdrawal ports on the map). Increasing the area would also make it harder for the IJN to trap Allied ships against the edge of the map area and sink them as is now the case with the scenario in Stock.



Admiral Scott -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 6:57:56 AM)

I wish we had the full map to look at right now!



Gunner98 -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 8:29:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Could you explain the Off-map connections. 

You've got the whole world in your hands. [sm=innocent0009.gif]



Thanks Blackhorse, this is great. A few more questions

-Will the Off map routes be imune or suseptable to IJN (or German) Sub interdiction?
-Are they in possible air range, I suspect they are too far out for that?
-Will the Off map repair yards be factored down to accomodate repair of ETO shipping?
-Can you give an example of how long it will take to move a Land unit from New York to PH? NY to LA by rail?
-I understand that Atlantic Fleet, Home Fleet and ETO units will NOT be included - will there be scope however, at very high PP cost to extracate a small a-historical increase in forces from the ETO - a nudge toward a Pacific first campaign? Possibly in a specific scenario?
-Is the Off map option extended to the 'Air bridge' across the atlantic or simply the shipping lanes? this would mean including Iceland, Greenland, NewFoundland, Labrador, Halafax etc?
-Are there links from the Med as well?

This is great and adds a whole spectrum of options for later scenario design.

Thanks



Andrew Brown -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 12:43:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: medck

any chance of posting screenshots of the off-map hexes, Panama, Aden, etc?


Screenshots are currently being handled by Matrix.

Andrew



Andy Mac -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 12:47:46 PM)


-Will the Off map routes be imune or suseptable to IJN (or German) Sub interdiction?

No not possible to do up until the entry points they can be attacked after that no.

-Are they in possible air range, I suspect they are too far out for that?

No no air missions possible over these bases.

-Will the Off map repair yards be factored down to accomodate repair of ETO shipping?

They are UK Box is I think a 200 repair yard and east coast is [cannot remember] and its the biggest in allied hands - remember though the speed of the ship dictates how long it takes to get to the off map box so getting to the big east coast repair yards is hard to do.

I know we reduced the UK and Canandian East Coast yards to accomodate the impact of the battle of the Atlantic.

-Can you give an example of how long it will take to move a Land unit from New York to PH? NY to LA by rail?

Not sure yet but it takes a while.

-I understand that Atlantic Fleet, Home Fleet and ETO units will NOT be included - will there be scope however, at very high PP cost to extracate a small a-historical increase in forces from the ETO - a nudge toward a Pacific first campaign? Possibly in a specific scenario?

Modders can we have not this is more properly a what if campaign merely allowing US troops to transfer to India and vice versa is probably enough of a nod in this direction.

-Is the Off map option extended to the 'Air bridge' across the atlantic or simply the shipping lanes? this would mean including Iceland, Greenland, NewFoundland, Labrador, Halafax etc?

Air units need to be on ships if it is a sea route

-Are there links from the Med as well?

Not sure how this works - Andrew will answer better than I can



Andrew Brown -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 12:53:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral Scott

Can you post a list of all the new on map bases please?

Will Tahiti be added?


I don't know when I will be able to post a list of bases. The list is not yet complete. But Tahiti is included, as mentioned.

Andrew



Andrew Brown -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 1:08:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

A few more questions

-Will the Off map routes be imune or suseptable to IJN (or German) Sub interdiction?


There is no Axis sub interdiction. Movement between off map areas, and between off map areas and the main map, are only possible for Allied TFs.

quote:

-Are they in possible air range, I suspect they are too far out for that?


Japanese air units cannot operate in off-map areas. Allied air units can base in off-map bases, but there would be nothing for them to do there (except train, I guess).

quote:

-Will the Off map repair yards be factored down to accomodate repair of ETO shipping?


I am adding some repair capacity to the off-map bases, but only an amount that seems reasonable given that only a portion of their time was spent on ships from the Pacific theatre. I am just starting to look at shipyards, so the numbers are not fixed yet.

quote:

-Can you give an example of how long it will take to move a Land unit from New York to PH? NY to LA by rail?


OK. "US East Coast" (a generic base - not NY specifically) to Panama is a distance of 45 hexes. I am not certain but I think Panama to PH is about 110 hexes.

quote:

-I understand that Atlantic Fleet, Home Fleet and ETO units will NOT be included - will there be scope however, at very high PP cost to extracate a small a-historical increase in forces from the ETO - a nudge toward a Pacific first campaign? Possibly in a specific scenario?


You will have to ask the naval folks about that. I guess that this would be at least possible but I am not sure.

quote:

-Is the Off map option extended to the 'Air bridge' across the atlantic or simply the shipping lanes? this would mean including Iceland, Greenland, NewFoundland, Labrador, Halafax etc?


Air and land units can be directly transferred between off map bases using an abstract system that simulates movement by convoy. There is no flying of air units between off map bases (or between off map bases and the main map).

quote:

-Are there links from the Med as well?


Yes there is a link through the Med, but it only becomes available at the end of May 1943.

Andrew

Edit - I just saw that Andy gave some answers as well while I was typing this! Thanks Andy.



bradfordkay -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 6:27:16 PM)

" -Can you give an example of how long it will take to move a Land unit from New York to PH? NY to LA by rail?

Not sure yet but it takes a while. "



Has anyone compared this to the historic rate of a transcontinental redeployment? I'm sure that we can find somewhere the amount of time it took to redeploy a major US unit(or three) fom one US coast to another...



Brady -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 6:39:04 PM)

I already heard that thier is no madascar, So I asumed that their is no coast of Africa, How far East does the Map go into the Indian Ocean?



Mike Scholl -> RE: Admiral's Edition Map Thread (12/14/2007 6:45:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

I already heard that thier is no madascar, So I asumed that their is no coast of Africa, How far East does the Map go into the Indian Ocean?



It goes "East" all the way to the Pacific, Brady. Africa is West of the Indian Ocean. And it's all off-map.



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