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NeverMan -> RE: CleverDevils2 AAR (8/8/2008 3:02:48 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gwheelock
quote:
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jimmer
quote:
ORIGINAL: NeverMan
We can agree to disagree. With that attitude there is no reason to ever try to really win, just ride France's coattials (or some other MP) to 2nd place, then you are a winner. [8|]
That's correct. It's a little different than other wargames (that have only one winner). It teaches cooperation, plus it is highly historical (it was COALITIONs 6 and 7 that finally defeated Napoleon).
But, the biggest reason I like it is because then I don't have to play a game against six players for a year having only a 1 in 7 chance of victory.
I disagree that this is a good thing. The more and more I look and think about this "2nd place gets a trophy too victory nonsense" the more I think I will never play with this again.
Why? It totally throws the balance of the game off, extremely so. It makes Spain content with 2nd place and watching France win. It makes Turkey content with 2nd place and watching France win.
In a "balanced" game, Spain and Turkey would both want to see France fall down a few pegs, but with this "second place gets a trophy too victory" this just doesn't happen, AND I DON'T BLAME THEM. Why should they if they can win too? That's human nature.
No, this is not an option I will ever get in another game with, it's utterly off balancing to the natural flow of EiA. It's 1 more deviation from EiA and I think I've had enough from Matrix as it is.
This is NOT a house rule of any sort; it is not "1 more deviation from EiA". It is one of the STANDARD ORIGINAL EIA rules. It is not even an OPTIONAL EIA RULE. Failure to count mp as additional VPs to determine additional winnerS (plural) would be the deviation. (The only item that we included is a ranking for who would be considered 2nd vs 3rd vs etc amoung the multiple winners)
Here is the section from the original EIA rulebook.
8.1.3 HOW TO WIN A GAME: During the Victory Points Step of a game's final Turn, or possibly sooner, a victor is determined.
8.1.3.1 SCENARIO VICTORY: Each scenario has its own victory conditions (see the individual scenarios in 13.0) and the victory determination systems are different from those used for campaign games.
8.1.3.2 CAMPAIGN VICTORY: Victory points are collected during each Victory Points Step (see 8.1). In the campaign games, the first player(s) to obtain enough total victory points to reach or exceed his major power's victory level and announce this fact (it does not have to be announced at the first opportunity) is a winner. If two or more major powers have reached or exceeded their victory levels simultaneously, those major powers are cowinners. Players may not transfer victory points to each other. If no player reaches the required victory level by the end of a campaign game, Great Britain wins.
8.1.3.2.1 The Major Power Victory Levels: The required victory levels for each major power are given in the VICTORY LEVELS CHART on the Game Card.
8.1.3.2.2 Shorter Campaigns: If players wish to finish a campaign game earlier, they can determine the victor by calculating the major power which has attained the largest percentage of its victory level. Average these percentages for players controlling two major powers (see 14.2.2).
8.1.3.2.3 The Final Victory Points Step: During a Victory Points Step when the announced total victory points of a major power has matched or exceeded that major power's victory level or, if the final month that will be played has been concluded, during the final Victory Points Step of the game, manpower levels are counted for additional victory points.
8.1.3.2.3.1: Each major power counts its total currently controlled manpower values in controlled home nation provinces, controlled ceded provinces of other home nations and conquered minor countries (none of the component territories of the new political combinations used in options 11.1-11.6 count as conquered). Controlled minor free states and/or controlled provinces or minor countries with capitals currently occupied by an enemy are not counted.
8.1.3.2.3.2: These manpower values are added as extra victory points to the major power's victory point totals for determining a winner or winners.
8.1.3.2.3.3: For players controlling two major powers (see 14.2.2) to win, both of their major powers must match or exceed their victory level or the excess victory points of one of these major powers must be enough that, by adding these excess (not needed to match its own victory level) victory points to the other major power's victory points, that addition will be enough to bring that second major power to its victory level.
I am aware of that rule; however, I guess I must have misunderstood what you and Jimmer have been saying. I was under a different impression, I was understanding your implementation to be a variance of this rule, when in fact, your saying it's not. Ok, my apologies.
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