Why the AI doesnīt research? (Full Version)

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Bombur -> Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/23/2009 4:54:38 PM)

Downloaded them from the site. Thank you. The big trouble we are looking at now is that the AI, after a very fast start (in a few turns they research 1910-1919 units), seems to stop all research and accumulates fantatisct amounts of pp points (up to 7000, and increasing). The question is: why the AI stops research? Maybe Vic could help with this question?



Vic -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/24/2009 12:37:00 AM)

Probably because the AI neeeds research field 1920-1929 before it can research any further units, but it doesnt see any need to research that field... probably because the SFType picture linked to that 1920-1929 research field is something the AI does not want to construct. Maybe its an SFType without any AIRole scores the AI needs?

You can check the log files in the log directory to see how the AI is ranking all possible research fields.

kind regards,
Vic



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/24/2009 3:52:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

Probably because the AI neeeds research field 1920-1929 before it can research any further units, but it doesnt see any need to research that field... probably because the SFType picture linked to that 1920-1929 research field is something the AI does not want to construct. Maybe its an SFType without any AIRole scores the AI needs?

You can check the log files in the log directory to see how the AI is ranking all possible research fields.

kind regards,
Vic



-How do I check these ones? If the AI researching Airships, why they rate other units lower? 1920-29 fields are:

-Air: Early torpedo bombers
-Land: AT Rifles
-Naval: Battlecruiser III

-They are actually more useful than 1900-1909 fields
-Air: Zeppelins
-Land: Early truck
-Naval: Submarines




Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/24/2009 4:09:45 PM)

I looked to the AI log and, while it seems the AI is building artillery and fighters (which is good), I didnīt find any research ranking...



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/24/2009 4:24:57 PM)

Also chcked the AI roles and itīs all ok. Actually, it seems the AI is stalling somewhere in 1910īs units, and not in the 1920īs gates



Vic -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/24/2009 4:38:27 PM)

In the log of the AI search for "research" and you should find a report like this.

quote:


RESEARCH
Saved pp:  9, Normal pp:  46
bestseamod=  0.0114315
Bazooka .. weight = 400, previous weight=  4,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Tankdestroyer .. weight = 100, previous weight=  1,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Flak .. weight = 400, previous weight=  4,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Fighter .. weight = 500, previous weight=  5,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Levelbomber .. weight = 600, previous weight=  6,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Divebomber .. weight = 600, previous weight=  6,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Rifle II .. weight = 184, previous weight=  4,  powerpointpercentmod= 16
Light Tank II .. weight = 100, previous weight=  1,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Artillery II .. weight = 700, previous weight=  7,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Infantry Gun III .. weight = 257, previous weight=  3,  powerpointpercentmod= 5
AT-Gun II .. weight = 600, previous weight=  6,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Medium Tank II .. weight = 0, previous weight=  0,  powerpointpercentmod= 4
Heavy Tank II .. weight = 89, previous weight=  1,  powerpointpercentmod= 4
Machinegun III .. weight = 75, previous weight=  1,  powerpointpercentmod= 8
Scout II .. weight = 400, previous weight=  4,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Mortar III .. weight = 200, previous weight=  2,  powerpointpercentmod= 1
Cruiser II .. weight = 0, previous weight=  0,  powerpointpercentmod= 4




Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/24/2009 11:46:10 PM)

My report has only the two first lines....well, I give up. Iīm going to prepare a new version of the mod withouth the gates...



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 3:33:32 AM)

Why not add an AIRole score to the gate ?



Zaratoughda -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 6:53:16 AM)

Really! Actually, why not add multiple AIRoles to the gate? That should get the AI to build it I would think for sure.

Z



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 11:59:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Why not add an AIRole score to the gate ?



I did....but, for some strange reason, doesnīt work. My version withouth gates seems to be working somewhat better. The AI developed up to mortars III, but still seems to stall after that unit.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 1:39:41 PM)

Here is an AI log with the new mod...

RESEARCH
Added 21 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 21
Saved pp: 21, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 0.1133908
Infantry gun I .. weight = 1600, previous weight= 16, powerpointpercentmod= 1



Vic -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 5:15:42 PM)

This means that at that moment the AI thinks the only thing it can research is Infantry Gun I.

Is that right?

If not you have to compare what Infantry Gun I research field has that the others that should be availble have not?

You might want to test this with giving the AI like 5000 PP to start with so you can see it buy research.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 6:45:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vic

This means that at that moment the AI thinks the only thing it can research is Infantry Gun I.

Is that right?

If not you have to compare what Infantry Gun I research field has that the others that should be availble have not?

You might want to test this with giving the AI like 5000 PP to start with so you can see it buy research.


No, Vic, it isnīt right. There are many other fields to research for the AI. A trouble I thhink that could be happening is that Iīve created too much SF groups (four ships SF groups for instance) and maybe the AI becomes confused on how does each researchfield compares with others. I think it will be a looong time until I can have a working AI for this mod, so it would be better to make the definitive release of Bombur mod as an PBEM only mod, while, I can try to have a simplified tech tree for AI games.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 6:52:52 PM)

Here is the data on an AI with 5000 points (using the version with gates)
Turn 1
RESEARCH
Added 4987 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 4987
Saved pp: 4987, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 1000
Zeppelin .. weight = 12700, previous weight= 127, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Air units 1900-1909

The AI actually has three options to research (Submarine I and early trucks are the other)



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 6:55:30 PM)

Here is the log for turn 2

RESEARCH
Added 48 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 4908
Saved pp: 4908, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 1000

-The AI simply ignores the other fields. But we will know that they will research them latter. Let us see what happens.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 6:57:36 PM)

Turn three, and the AI researchs Naval Unit I (Submarine I)

RESEARCH
Added 23 pp to savedpp of regime. which is now: 4931
Saved pp: 4931, Normal pp: 10
bestseamod= 1000
Submarine I .. weight = 800, previous weight= 8, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Naval units 1900-1909




Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 7:04:11 PM)

Turn 4. The AI bypasses the Light truck (which is the third 1900īs gate) and goes right for machinegun 1. I thought the trouble could be here. In other words, by bypassing this unit, the AI makes all the post 1910 research collapse. In such event I could create the fake Truck you mentioned before.

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4804, Normal pp: 13
bestseamod= 0.06666667
Machinegun II .. weight = 3700, previous weight= 37, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Land units 1910-1919



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 7:07:18 PM)

Turn 5. With access with 1910-1919 units, the AI starts to research 1910īs infantry.

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4677, Normal pp: 16
bestseamod= 0.06666667
SMG I .. weight = 1700, previous weight= 17, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Mortar I .. weight = 3200, previous weight= 32, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: SMG I
Bought researchfield: Mortar I



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 7:10:31 PM)

The AI goes researching infantry. If they donīt start to research the Early truck, their research will stall soon.


RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4595, Normal pp: 21
bestseamod= 0.06666667
Special Forces I .. weight = 1900, previous weight= 19, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Special Forces I



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 7:13:58 PM)

Turn 7 and the AI seems to have stopped r&d

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4557, Normal pp: 22
bestseamod= 0.06666667



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 7:17:29 PM)

Turn 8 and research is stalled. So the trouble is in the truck, not in the ballons. Now we will try with a fake early truck with improved anti infantry ratings.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 7:36:50 PM)

Pointing the research field to a fake truck with good anti infantry and anti armour rates didnīt work. Changing the AIROLE of this fake truck to armour also didnīt work. Iīm running out of ideas.....



Vic -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 7:39:17 PM)

I think the AI might not at all be interested in AIRole=Mobilizer. And you might want to avoid making such a an AIRole SFType a bottleneck



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 10:01:33 PM)

I considered this too, but changing the AI Role for the fake truck didnīt work. Maybe the fake truck should have a different picture? Currently it has same picture but a different SF slot.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/25/2009 10:12:05 PM)

Tried to give the tech to the AI, but the research stalls anyway. Well, I give up. Iīm going to release v1.00 as PBEM only file. I will study ways to make the mod AI compatible latter.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/26/2009 8:09:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Turn 4. The AI bypasses the Light truck (which is the third 1900īs gate) and goes right for machinegun 1. I thought the trouble could be here. In other words, by bypassing this unit, the AI makes all the post 1910 research collapse. In such event I could create the fake Truck you mentioned before.

RESEARCH
Saved pp: 4804, Normal pp: 13
bestseamod= 0.06666667
Machinegun II .. weight = 3700, previous weight= 37, powerpointpercentmod= 1
Bought researchfield: Land units 1910-1919


Not sure what it means but I noticed your turn 4 "bestseamod" parameter dropped like a rock this turn.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/26/2009 11:47:43 PM)

Thatīs a good question....



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/27/2009 8:11:22 PM)

I guess I don't understand fully what the gates are doing there in concept. Is it that once a gate is passed, (purchased) new techs are released ?

Are the old techs obsoleted or blocked ? So, if a gate is passed then techs not selected are no longer available ? For instance, If I pass the gate without buying the previous level techs, I can't purchase those techs at all, (not even the old ones) in my current era ?

I think the concept is workable and interesting, but I don't understand how they work ATM.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/27/2009 8:13:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Thatīs a good question....


I also noticed that once the T3 naval tech gate was purchased, that parameter dropped. I guess it had something to do with naval vs. land development paths.



Zaratoughda -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/27/2009 8:56:09 PM)

Just one comment on reading this thread...... from what Vic said as well as what I have seen myself.... it appears that the AI does not research mobilizers (e.g. improved trucks and whatever). So, if you took out the requirement of going to the next level of having the truck researched, there is a good chance that the research would not get stopped.

Also, being that the AI does not research mobilizers, you might want to consider giving that research free when you reach a new level. In other words, the improved truck would come with Land Units 1910-1920... or something along those lines. Just not sure how you might do that.

Hope this helps,

Z



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