RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (Full Version)

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Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/28/2009 12:12:00 AM)

Yes, Iīm considering to release an AI optimized Bombur mod with a simplified tech tree, where each tech you give you multiple units. Let us see how it works....



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (2/28/2009 12:20:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

I guess I don't understand fully what the gates are doing there in concept. Is it that once a gate is passed, (purchased) new techs are released ?

Are the old techs obsoleted or blocked ? So, if a gate is passed then techs not selected are no longer available ? For instance, If I pass the gate without buying the previous level techs, I can't purchase those techs at all, (not even the old ones) in my current era ?

I think the concept is workable and interesting, but I don't understand how they work ATM.



The "gates" are specific techs, necessary to purchase every unit avaiable in a given decade. So, if you want to research any post 1950 unit, you must research the 1950-1959 gate for the related area (land, naval or air). So, researching a gate opens a lot of news techs (but not all techs in a decade, some of them need the intermediate trchs). Let us see an example. Researching the 1900-1909 naval tech will open you the armoured cruiser II and the Cargoship medium. The armoured cruiser II is a pre requisite for the Battaleship II, which in turn is a pre requisite for the Battlecruiser I. So the 1900-1909 tech is absolutely necessary for you to develop the BB II, but itīs not enough. This was made to give a taste of historical realism, but it wasnīt very good for the AI....I will keep the mod as it stands for PBEM and create a simplified tech tree for the AI. Not sure if it works...



Bombur -> FINALLY IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING!!! (3/1/2009 1:32:18 AM)

-The simplified tech tree is working very well. First tests and the AI was able to research sucessive Vehicle tech (10 levels) which gave it all vehicles in the game. Now letīs go to ships. It will be time consuming. Eventually this simplified research tree will be the default mod, replacing the file we are using now. It depends on feedback from gamers.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: FINALLY IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING!!! (3/1/2009 3:54:49 AM)

Congrats ! You now have a light at the end of the tunnel.

I was wondering, when you made the surface to surface missle SFT, were you thinking of an ICMB, land to land missle or anti-ship missle ?

I began working on the STS missle symbol and I caught myself thinking I had misinterpreted the intent. Let me know.




Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/1/2009 4:00:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

I guess I don't understand fully what the gates are doing there in concept. Is it that once a gate is passed, (purchased) new techs are released ?

Are the old techs obsoleted or blocked ? So, if a gate is passed then techs not selected are no longer available ? For instance, If I pass the gate without buying the previous level techs, I can't purchase those techs at all, (not even the old ones) in my current era ?

I think the concept is workable and interesting, but I don't understand how they work ATM.



The "gates" are specific techs, necessary to purchase every unit avaiable in a given decade. So, if you want to research any post 1950 unit, you must research the 1950-1959 gate for the related area (land, naval or air). So, researching a gate opens a lot of news techs (but not all techs in a decade, some of them need the intermediate trchs). Let us see an example. Researching the 1900-1909 naval tech will open you the armoured cruiser II and the Cargoship medium. The armoured cruiser II is a pre requisite for the Battaleship II, which in turn is a pre requisite for the Battlecruiser I. So the 1900-1909 tech is absolutely necessary for you to develop the BB II, but itīs not enough. This was made to give a taste of historical realism, but it wasnīt very good for the AI....I will keep the mod as it stands for PBEM and create a simplified tech tree for the AI. Not sure if it works...



The AI can't look forward into the tech tree. But you can make the gates attractive to it and that way lead it to use what it wants to. But it's tough because the AI doesn't know that the things it may want are behind those gates, it can only evaluate the gates themselves against other choices.

Interesting problem.



Bombur -> RE: FINALLY IT SEEMS TO BE WORKING!!! (3/1/2009 11:43:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Congrats ! You now have a light at the end of the tunnel.

I was wondering, when you made the surface to surface missle SFT, were you thinking of an ICMB, land to land missle or anti-ship missle ?

I began working on the STS missle symbol and I caught myself thinking I had misinterpreted the intent. Let me know.




I have two cruise missiles: one is modelled in the V-1 and the other is the Soviet SS-N-3 (antiship)
I have only one ballistic missile: itīs based on V-2



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/1/2009 11:45:45 AM)


quote:



The AI can't look forward into the tech tree. But you can make the gates attractive to it and that way lead it to use what it wants to. But it's tough because the AI doesn't know that the things it may want are behind those gates, it can only evaluate the gates themselves against other choices.

Interesting problem.



-Yes, the gates are incompatible with the AI. I made the tech tree for ships and unfortunately, the AI doesnīt seem to research them...on the other side, it seems not to research ships in default scenarios too....



Bombur -> Help from Vic again... (3/1/2009 11:07:16 PM)

Up to now the AI is able to research vehicles and infantry (all 10 levels for vehicles and 6 levels for infantry). The AI ocasinally develops ships (only 2/8 levels). The question is: how to make the AI research ships. Iīm using battleships as SF picture for levels 1-6 and missile cruisers for levels 7 and 8.



Vic -> RE: Help from Vic again... (3/2/2009 8:09:45 AM)

For starters the AI will not research cargoships. Nor Aircraftcarriers. Only AIRole_Raider and AIRole_SeaSupriority

kind reg,
vic



Bombur -> RE: Help from Vic again... (3/2/2009 10:12:05 PM)

All my pics are from naval superiority (Battleships and the missile crisers). Still, the AI is researching very few naval units. Maybe a few sub pics would help????



timberwolf15 -> RE: Mod for random maps (3/3/2009 12:32:07 AM)

Ah Forget 1900 have it Start at Caveman days maybe a guy with rocks then a guy with a club invent spears and stuff come on don't think small ... then end the tech with a death star that blows the whole map apart or bring in Alien vs Predator ... get a grip man put in a real tech tree.. then let VR have it and they can sell it .. lmao ..



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (3/3/2009 12:56:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: timberwolf15

Ah Forget 1900 have it Start at Caveman days maybe a guy with rocks then a guy with a club invent spears and stuff come on don't think small ... then end the tech with a death star that blows the whole map apart or bring in Alien vs Predator ... get a grip man put in a real tech tree.. then let VR have it and they can sell it .. lmao ..



Not a bad idea....not sure if I will be alive when the mod is ready....



srndac -> RE: Mod for random maps (3/3/2009 3:38:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur


quote:

ORIGINAL: timberwolf15

Ah Forget 1900 have it Start at Caveman days maybe a guy with rocks then a guy with a club invent spears and stuff come on don't think small ... then end the tech with a death star that blows the whole map apart or bring in Alien vs Predator ... get a grip man put in a real tech tree.. then let VR have it and they can sell it .. lmao ..



Not a bad idea....not sure if I will be alive when the mod is ready....



LOL! [:D]
(didn't want to start this post like that - but after Bombur's answer - I just had to ... )

But really:
Bombur, you seem to punch out those versions of your mod like on an assembly line: I don't even manage to finish one game of current version, and you have already posted the next ... and with that kind of speed you might just make the timberwolf's wish come true ... [;)] [8|]

Okay, now seriosly:

1. I don't know if that's how you envisioned it or not, but infantry in your mod still moves faster off-road than on-road ... while some other units (like cavalry for example) move as fast on-road as off-road. Against all historical precedent I might say ... [X(]

2. Do you plan to add some replacement for horses? Meaning: yes, the German (and Soviet) army used them extensively in all circumstances during the WW2, but the Yanks did start to use Jeeps for light-weight tough-terrain mobilizers, while the Brits used their Bren Carrier in a similar role, I believe. They could be used for recon, as well.

cheers!
srndac



Jeffrey H. -> 2 New Symbols (3/4/2009 8:21:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Congrats ! You now have a light at the end of the tunnel.

I was wondering, when you made the surface to surface missle SFT, were you thinking of an ICMB, land to land missle or anti-ship missle ?

I began working on the STS missle symbol and I caught myself thinking I had misinterpreted the intent. Let me know.




I have two cruise missiles: one is modelled in the V-1 and the other is the Soviet SS-N-3 (antiship)
I have only one ballistic missile: itīs based on V-2




Ok, did one for each of these:





Jeffrey H. -> RE: 2 New Symbols (3/4/2009 8:22:32 PM)

PT Boat up next.



Bombur -> RE: Mod for random maps (3/5/2009 1:21:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: srndac


quote:


But really:
Bombur, you seem to punch out those versions of your mod like on an assembly line: I don't even manage to finish one game of current version, and you have already posted the next ... and with that kind of speed you might just make the timberwolf's wish come true ... [;)] [8|]


-Because Iīm always detecting new bugs, some of them gamebreaking...this mod gaves me much more work than expected....

Okay, now seriosly:

quote:


1. I don't know if that's how you envisioned it or not, but infantry in your mod still moves faster off-road than on-road ... while some other units (like cavalry for example) move as fast on-road as off-road. Against all historical precedent I might say ... [X(]


-Thatīs a mistake, will be fixed (now, with the new Bombur AI mod each of these fixes will give me double work...well....)

quote:


2. Do you plan to add some replacement for horses? Meaning: yes, the German (and Soviet) army used them extensively in all circumstances during the WW2, but the Yanks did start to use Jeeps for light-weight tough-terrain mobilizers, while the Brits used their Bren Carrier in a similar role, I believe. They could be used for recon, as well.



Hmmmmm...Iīm not intending to create extra units, now that I have two different files, but maybe I could change my mind....
Are you enjoying the mod? Playing vs. human?




srndac -> RE: Mod for random maps (3/5/2009 3:42:16 PM)


quote:



quote:


2. Do you plan to add some replacement for horses? Meaning: yes, the German (and Soviet) army used them extensively in all circumstances during the WW2, but the Yanks did start to use Jeeps for light-weight tough-terrain mobilizers, while the Brits used their Bren Carrier in a similar role, I believe. They could be used for recon, as well.


Hmmmmm...Iīm not intending to create extra units, now that I have two different files, but maybe I could change my mind....
Are you enjoying the mod? Playing vs. human?



Oh yeah - I'm enjoying it. I'm playing vs. myself currently (mostly to see what kinds of units are in it) (oh and did I mention that I'm beggining to suffer from schizophrenia?[X(]) ... but there's a small possibility that I might get my friends to try it out - so I'm holding on ... (no matter what that little voice inside my head says. [;)] [:D])

cheers!
srndac



Jeffrey H. -> PT Boat Symbol (3/5/2009 9:02:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

PT Boat up next.



Here's the PT Boat symbol. I really like the way this one turned out.




Bombur -> RE: PT Boat Symbol (3/6/2009 1:23:43 AM)

Thank you again, Jeffrey. Will make the changes as soon as possible...



Jeffrey H. -> RE: PT Boat Symbol (3/6/2009 7:44:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

Thank you again, Jeffrey. Will make the changes as soon as possible...


So sweat, I'm not volunteering for more work but these are taking ~20 minutes per unit which I can bang out 1 during my lunch hour at work. It does give me a little feeling of accomplishment.

Anyway, on to the self propelled artillery.




Jeffrey H. -> Self Propelled Atrillery Symbol (3/11/2009 8:13:13 PM)

Here are the two self propelled artillery symbols. I don't like these so much, but I think they are reasonalbly good looking:

1 if for self propelled atrillery and the other is for self propelled anti-aircraft artillery.



Bombur -> RE: Self Propelled Atrillery Symbol (3/14/2009 2:59:01 AM)

AI compatible Bombur mod is almost ready. Will be released soon.



Grymme -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/14/2009 3:05:25 PM)

Liked the look of the SP artillery and SPA artillery counters. However they should be placed lower in the picture. When played they show hovering above the ground. Above other counters.

Was actually thinking about stealing them for some own mod. Thats why i bother to point it out. Cant change them myself since they are in black background colour.




Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/14/2009 5:30:48 PM)

Hmm....not sure why that is. I have a few hunches though. I had a similar problem with the first attempts at Zeppelins and coastal artillery that Bombur posted pics of. It was due to sizing IIRC. I'll take another look at them.

If you could post a screenie it might help.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/14/2009 9:19:47 PM)

With my new AI version ready, Iīm starting to playtest the files. Jeffrey. Here is the PT boat image, it seems somewhat bigger than expected....

[image]local://upfiles/12603/78F5B940D81D42128781FA54DFEE82E8.jpg[/image]



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/15/2009 4:29:34 AM)

Hrrrm....I didn't see the AI version in the sandbox.

I think I can shrink the image down a bit. I'll play with it a little.



Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/15/2009 2:37:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Hrrrm....I didn't see the AI version in the sandbox.

I think I can shrink the image down a bit. I'll play with it a little.



I didnīt upload it....yet....but I can send you the file. Drop me an e-mail to afenelon@terra.com.br and I give you the scenario. Iīm playtesting it and would like to know your opinion.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/15/2009 7:59:24 PM)

Email sent.

One of the tricky things about these counter graphics is knowing what the pixel boundary is for the symbols. I've played around with some of the ones that came with the game and found them to roughly be 29w x 22h with the "zero" on the top right corner of the counter.

The process I use to create these typically involves actual photos and these are often not easily scaled to the area of the counter allocated to the unit symbol without distortion of the image. 

If anyone has found some more info to add on this, I'd appreciate hearing about it.



Jeffrey H. -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/16/2009 7:26:48 PM)

Wow, that mod is a handful !



On a more sedate note, I tweaked the symbols a bit for the PT boat, SPA and SPAA SFT's. They might look a little better.





Bombur -> RE: Why the AI doesnīt research? (3/19/2009 1:29:58 AM)

New graphics installed. Thank you.



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