RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (Full Version)

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Phatguy -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/9/2008 3:55:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

Joe I take it you dont have or don't play WITP... Nothing is unplayable.[:D] I hope for this game to be a WITP on the east front.[&o][&o][&o]


Good lord, no! That WOULD be unplayable.


Campaign for North Africa is playable... ergo, anything is playable




Monkeys Brain -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/9/2008 4:14:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Now yer talkin TOAW III baby it's the wargamers game of wargaming. ;)


Beatles or Rolling Stones of wargaming [:D]




ravinhood -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/9/2008 4:37:00 PM)

Hrmmm Grassroots would be my choice. ;)




olorin42 -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/9/2008 5:09:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

Joe I take it you dont have or don't play WITP... Nothing is unplayable.[:D] I hope for this game to be a WITP on the east front.[&o][&o][&o]


Good lord, no! That WOULD be unplayable.


Campaign for North Africa is playable... ergo, anything is playable


Campaign for North Africa. THat brings back memories. Had TWO games of it in progress at the same time. I set up some programs to track all the supplies and such so that it was not such a paperwork nightmare. Friend and I would get together for a long evening and do about one week of game time in each game in a night. Took better than 3 years to finish both games. Individual planes, company / battalion level, 1 truck point = 10 trucks, repair of damaged vehicles individually. The detail was amazing.




moïse -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/9/2008 6:37:32 PM)

here is moïse from campaigns-france.org, old vétéran in front of the Eternal [8D]If matrix make a best map design for War in russia , i Buy the game. bad design , no pleasure, no dollars ...




Charles2222 -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 6:14:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Of course you know it will be 2012 before this game is ready and welp you all know what happens in 2012? don't you? ;)

Would that be Jack Van Impe's prediction?




ravinhood -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 7:23:54 AM)

Something about a comet moving our way that will be here in 2012 and the tail of it or a big part of it will vacumn some layers of our atmosphere up with it as it swoops by thus taking away all our oxygen and we'll all die of suffication. ;)




Joshuatree -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 5:25:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Something about a comet moving our way that will be here in 2012 and the tail of it or a big part of it will vacumn some layers of our atmosphere up with it as it swoops by thus taking away all our oxygen and we'll all die of suffication. ;)


Oh, well, I hope the game is finished by then.
And just maybe Duke Nukem "is done" by then too!




ravinhood -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 5:43:38 PM)

From the band Pink Floyd "The Wall"

We don't need no east front game
We don't need no thought control
We don't need no east front game....no more!!!
PEOPLE! Leave those east front games alone!! ;)




PunkReaper -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 5:57:09 PM)

quote:

Something about a comet moving our way that will be here in 2012 and the tail of it or a big part of it will vacumn some layers of our atmosphere up with it as it swoops by thus taking away all our oxygen and we'll all die of suffication.


There isn't much atmosphere where I live anyway.

P.s I've been singing the wrong words to Pink Floyyd's "The Wall" all these years.




Joel Billings -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 6:36:22 PM)

All in all it's just another (anti-)tank gun in the wall.




anarchyintheuk -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 6:59:27 PM)

I think 2012 is when the Mayan calendar runs out/we're doomed/etc. Guess it depends on whether you think the calendar pertains the Mayans or the Earth. Either way, it may be a good time to buy real estate in Guatamala, Belize or the Yucatan around then.

Glad to hear about the game.




Phatguy -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 7:01:22 PM)

We did it the old fashioned way... paper, pen, pencil,eraser and over 20 binders of calculations plus info for 1 campaign.....Way too much.....

Plus I also had five miles to walk to school one way.....everyday.....in Buffalo...uphill...both ways!!!!!




Gen.Hoepner -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 7:02:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

I think 2012 is when the Mayan calendar runs out/we're doomed/etc. Guess it depends on whether you think the calendar pertains the Mayans or the Earth. Either way, it may be a good time to buy real estate in Guatamala, Belize or the Yucatan around then.

Glad to hear about the game.


Yes, 2012 is the year when, following the Mayan calendar, the 4th Era of this world would end (it's, above all, the end of a precessional cycle)




anarchyintheuk -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 7:08:07 PM)

Wonder what Era of the World 5.0 is supposed to bring.




reg113 -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 7:35:39 PM)

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]




ravinhood -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/11/2008 8:06:13 PM)

I just wonder how "buggy and flawed" the predictions are out of the box. ;)




Charles2222 -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/12/2008 5:27:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Something about a comet moving our way that will be here in 2012 and the tail of it or a big part of it will vacumn some layers of our atmosphere up with it as it swoops by thus taking away all our oxygen and we'll all die of suffication. ;)


Naw, Jack's idea had something to do with 666 and all of that. I heard something about some recent asteroid or some other body in the heavens, but it was just passing somewhat closeby, that is if you consider hundreds of thousands of miles close. It seems it gets much more effective allegedly in like another 10 thousand years or so. Oh woah is us [sm=00000280.gif].




Grell -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/12/2008 2:44:31 PM)

Hi Charles,

Are you serious?

Regards,

Grell




Charles2222 -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/15/2008 7:29:50 PM)

Uh, yes, I guess so. I wasn't being serious when I said that about "woah is us".




Josans -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/18/2008 10:19:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

From the band Pink Floyd "The Wall"

We don't need no east front game
We don't need no thought control
We don't need no east front game....no more!!!
PEOPLE! Leave those east front games alone!! ;)


From the Hottest band in the World : KISS

" Tonight I wanna give it all yo you
In my darkness...
There´s so much I wanna do...
And Tonight I wanna lay it your feet
Cause WiR I was made for you
And WiR you were made for me!

I was made for play with you WiR
You were made to play with me!
And I cant enough all from you babe
You can enough all from me! "

[:)]





Zap -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/19/2008 2:47:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

I think 2012 is when the Mayan calendar runs out/we're doomed/etc. Guess it depends on whether you think the calendar pertains the Mayans or the Earth. Either way, it may be a good time to buy real estate in Guatamala, Belize or the Yucatan around then.

Glad to hear about the game.



I hope its completed before I die of old age[:D]




DeadInThrench -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/19/2008 3:01:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The game is turn based with an integrated movement and combat phase. That means you move units, conduct attacks (hasty and normal), and then continue to move additional units and conduct additional attacks (including airstrikes).



Hmmm.... Joel.... If you open a forum here on Matrix on this project.... I am SURE you will get lots of comments. Yeah... maybe an unbelievable amount <g>.

Anyways... on the movement/combat sequence... I have been playing some TOAW recently and, it does movement/combat along these lines. What it does, when you make attacks, is take away movement points from all remaining units to stop unrealistic things from happenning. The problem with this, is you will have an attack on one part of the front affect what is going on in other parts of the front, or even other fronts if you have them. So, you end up having to micro-manage things across the entire front, and other fronts, on a round by round basis and this gets to be tedius and unrealistic as I see it.

So, what I suggested there (and they do not have the programming resource right now to deal with something like this), is you have an initial movement phase, where you do things like normal movement, moving in reinforcements, etc, as well as schedule all initial attacks... and then once you start resolving attacks, any additional movement points (assuming the unit would otherwise have them) would be based on PROXIMITY to an attack. In other words, if you had a 10 round turn, and an attack started on round 2 and ended on round 5, then all units, say, within 2 hexes of an attack, would have half their movement allowance left (assuming they would have it otherwise), to move and attack, attack again, etc.

With this, the computer would have to keep track of hexes that changed control as to what round they changed control, so that this system would not be abused (and units that moved into such hexes would have to pay the MP cost based on if they had waited for the hex to change control).

Also, in cases where a unit moved into a hex behind a defending unit, to keep it from retreating, the attack itself would in fact start AFTER that unit (and any other such units) moved into position.

And of course I am sure there would have to be many other considerations taken into account so that everything goes as desired. One thing that someone brought up when I proposed this in the TOAW forums, is computer allocation of defensive air support.. and the idea that all initial attacks must be scheduled.... would allow the computer to allocate the defensive air support intelligently.

A key thing here.... IMO... is first the player handles what the Army Group (or higher level HQ) would be handling, and THEN handles what the Army and Corps HQs would be handling, but being allowed to handle these one at a time rather than having to handle all of these simultaneously as in TOAW.

Whatever.... just thought I get this perspective on the table here. The proposal I have above might be a challange to implement I dunno. But, in any case, obviously, the movement/turn sequence of a game is a critical aspect... maybe the most critical aspect... of any game along these lines.

Thank you,

DiT




DeadInThrench -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/19/2008 3:18:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The game is 10 miles per hex (about 190 by 140 hexes). He said in his opening tests it takes the AI nearly 15 minutes to complete the first German turn. It's not that things are particularly slow, it's just that at 10 miles per hex and division scale, the first turn of Barbarossa is a massive undertaking. We were kidding yesterday that the first 2 weeks of the war could be its own scenario that could take a few hours to play (how far can you get in 2 weeks). This will probably compare to the first turn of War in the Pacific for turn length, but we think the game system will give it a higher "fun factor" (and addictive quality) as you make your move.



Hmmm... yeah... there are SOME of us out here.... that are not necessarily interested in a game with the largest number of possible units <lol>. There was one poster in the WiR forums that was concerned that 2x3 was probably going to go further into the realm of games that take forever to play but..... this is a refreshing change.

I should say here that... as far as shorter scenarios are concerned... I recently uploaded one to the WiR forums.... that ended after turn 15. IMO, this is a good time to end a shorter Barbarosa scenario as that is when the bad weather first hits. Another good time to end one.... is when the blizzard weather first hits (e.g. end of German offensive).... and then a third possible end time... would be after the Russian winter offensive.

Just some ideas here... yeah.... please keep in mind those of use that don't really have the time to play the full campaign game.

DiT

P.S. Yeah, I uploaded that scenario and figured out how to hex edit the VP cities, but don't really have the time to even play it myself right now due to RL concerns. Whatever.




DeadInThrench -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/19/2008 6:59:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

The game is 10 miles per hex (about 190 by 140 hexes). He said in his opening tests it takes the AI nearly 15 minutes to complete the first German turn. It's not that things are particularly slow, it's just that at 10 miles per hex and division scale, the first turn of Barbarossa is a massive undertaking. We were kidding yesterday that the first 2 weeks of the war could be its own scenario that could take a few hours to play (how far can you get in 2 weeks). This will probably compare to the first turn of War in the Pacific for turn length, but we think the game system will give it a higher "fun factor" (and addictive quality) as you make your move.



At the risk of looking the gift horse in the mouth <g>..... is there any possibility... as time goes along here.... of having Poland '39 and possibly Russo/Finish Winter War scenarios included with the game?

The thing is.... I got Second Front and liked it but then I got Western Front (yeah, many moons ago now) and liked it a lot more.... and the reason.... it was a lot easier to ease into WF with the Italian campaign than it was with SF and the '41 Campaign game. Yes, you had Typhoon and Case Blue but.... they didn't lead anywhere other than the scenario. With Western Front, I played the Italian campaign and then the Overlord Campaign and then the whole thing... while with Second Front.... never got to the overall campaign game.

With weekly turns... this would be a 4 turn Poland '39 scenario dunno about Russo/Finish war.

Also.... going to 10 KM per hex..... there are all sorts of smaller scenarios that you can include.... like Panzergruppe Guderian/Smolensk '41, etc, etc. There are all sorts of good scenario designers out there and you might consider allowing them to develop scenarios even before the game is released.... so you can have a lot already at that point.

Hmmmm.... one other thing.... I just did a survey of TOAW scenarios at 10 KM per hex... and a lot of em are regimental level but with those the counter density gets kinda high for my taste so I like the 10 KM divisional level (I imagine there will be some regiments that fought independantly historically). But, in almost all the cases of the 10 KM TOAW scenarios, the time frame is half week turns (one is daily turns <g>)... and given WiR was 35-40 KM/Hex and weekly turns.... and Western Front about half that scale and half week turns.... IMO you would probably be better off with half week turns.

If you did go this way... would make a Poland '39 scenario an 8 turn scenario (and the Barbarosa scenario I proposed in a separate post... a 30 turn scenario)... which is not that long but... at 10 KM/Hex.... Poland... gets quite big so this would be a short scenario but not a tiny scenario by any means.

Whatever.... just some suggestions.

DiT

P.S. And NOW I realize you were saying 10 miles per hex rather than 10 KM per hex (yeah, I am an American so got no problem with that <g>). That means about... hmmm.... 16.1 KM/Hex which in fact is probably a bit better than 10 KM/Hex for a divisional level game. Still..... hmmm.... probably better with half week turns.... IMO.




DeadInThrench -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/19/2008 7:29:18 AM)

ravinhood.......

Hmmmm... hate to burst your bubble on this but.....

The 2012 date is of significance because.... the Mayan calandar ends on that date at like 3 PM in the afternoon of something like December 22 of that year... and it was always a mystery as to why they end their calandar on that day in the middle of the day.

But... over time and analysis over that time.... there is the matter of the earth rotating on it's axis, and the matter of the earth revolving around the sun, and the positions of the stars and all that but then.... there is also another item.... the earth 'wobbles' on it's axis.

This produces something called 'the precession of the equinoxes'.... which is what the Mayan calandar is based on and why they ended their calander as they did.

However.... the thing here is that..... although the Mayans were incredible astronomers and mathematicians.... what they didn't know.... is the Earth's wobbling on it's axis... is SLOWING DOWN.... like a top comming to a point where it is no longer wobbling.

And without knowing this... the Mayan's... miscalculated... and the point that they were looking at in 2012... has in fact.... ALREADY PASSED <g>. Was some point in the year 2000 I believe.

Now, nobody has made such a big deal about this... yeah... wanna keep those XFile plots seem plausable (not to mention the cults out there on this) but... the truth is.... again... the point they were looking at in 2012... has in fact... already passed.

If you wanna do more research on this you can do so searching the web.... I was interested and did that research and.... the truth is out there and... on this item... I found it.

I am sure you would find it as interesting as I did.

DiT




PunkReaper -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/19/2008 8:34:55 PM)

So if I get this right, the world ended in 2000 and nobody thought to tell me.




Fred98 -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/20/2008 12:08:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper
So if I get this right, the world ended in 2000 and nobody thought to tell me.


We are all in wargaming heaven!

-





Zap -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/20/2008 12:31:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joe 98


quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper
So if I get this right, the world ended in 2000 and nobody thought to tell me.


We are all in wargaming heaven!

-





So your saying, this will be for all eternity?




Terminus -> RE: 2by3 Russian Front Game? (3/20/2008 12:39:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

Joe I take it you dont have or don't play WITP... Nothing is unplayable.[:D] I hope for this game to be a WITP on the east front.[&o][&o][&o]


Good lord, no! That WOULD be unplayable.


Campaign for North Africa is playable... ergo, anything is playable


Not the same. Not even close.




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