RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (Full Version)

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Raverdave -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/31/2008 6:26:43 PM)

Thanks for posting your pics...they are great.    But it is a pity that so many of those tanks are sitting in the open rusting away.  Real pity. [:(]




Terminus -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/31/2008 6:30:12 PM)

RAVER![&o][&o]




castor troy -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/31/2008 6:47:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Next, a Rhinosauerus (I really should take pictures of the plaque when I can't spell it)

[image]local://upfiles/12832/0D956866381C476A845E6200CA7AB0CE.jpg[/image]



just name it "Nashorn" [;)]




mikemike -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 12:25:09 AM)

Really great photos. I just wish you had been able to take more photos of the artillery. I went through my books and I've got some annotations to make (I like to show off, and this is a splendid occasion!)

Post 41/42: That's a Panzer IV D
Post 51-53: A Panzer IIIM or later: the smoke dischargers on the turret came with that model.
79: JagdPanzer Kanone, correct. Weight 23 tons, 500 hp, speed 44 mph, 90mm gun that fired the same ammo as the M47/48. Was used by the Bundeswehr until late '70s, then converted to fire TOW ATGMs. The design owed its concept to the Hetzer and the JagdPz IV.
80: a US M55 203mm SP howitzer
86: a Sturmgeschütz III, but a late model, you can see the reinforced front armor. The gun seems a larger caliber than 75 mm. From the look of the mantle, I'd say it's probably a 105 mm Sturmhaubitze (assault howitzer) with a short barrel
101: JagdPz IV. Had no official name, but was nicknamed "Guderianente" (Guderian Duck) - Guderian had initiated the design. The gun doesn't have the usual muzzle brake, and the road wheels look more like those on the version with the L/70 gun.
130-132 show a Panzer IV F2
151: in the background left you can see a Soviet 203mm howitzer on a tracked carriage
153: the twin AA gun is not an 88 mm, but a 128 mm twin as used on the flak towers in Hamburg, Berlin, and Vienna.
154: the grey-painted vehicle third from left is an Italian tank destroyer, a Semovente M.41M da 90/53 (Self-propelled 90mm/L53 type M.41M. The gun (which is as powerful as a German 88 mm) is mounted at the front of the vehicle, pointing aft. Set up obviously for shoot-and-scoot. The guns in the background visible between the tanks: the grey-painted gun second from left looks like a German 150 mm K18 gun, the one to the right is a French 155 mm GPF-T, also visible in the background of post 121.
155:the vehicle on the right is a "Heuschrecke" (Locust), not a tank destroyer, as Terminus thinks, but a 105 mm howitzer, a field artillery gun. This was a prototype. In principle this was what the British called a "portee", a vehicle to carry a gun into the firing position and retreat to the rear after offloading the gun. Not really SP artillery.
156:The vehicle in front is a Heavy 150 mm Field Howitzer 13 (a WWI gun) on the chassis of a French Lorraine artillery tractor, a SdKfz 135/1. The vehicle behind is a 150mm Heavy Infantry Gun on a Gun Vehicle 38M (a vehicle derived from the Czech-designed Pz 38t, the version with the engine in the middle - SdKfz 138/1.
171-173: the little tank is a French Hotchkiss H.35

Concerning "Anzio Annie": this was the most numerous German railway gun, with 25 built. An example modified to a 310mm smoothbore barrel fired a fin-stabilized shell and demonstrated a range of 100 miles on trials.

That's all the stuff I could positively identify.




Terminus -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 12:42:30 AM)

True, the Locust wasn't a Jagdpanzer, I had my missions mixed up for that one. It was still, however, a MONUMENTAL waste of resources, even though only 3 were built.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heuschrecke_10




DD696 -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 1:19:40 AM)

That definately wasn't my last trip there, and on my next one I will take photos of the artillery since interest has been expressed. It's only just a bit over an hour away. So much to see there. I really don't know if they have plaques identifying the arty. I didn't notice any but there may have been. So with an arty expert (probably more than one out there) I will take the pictures and let the experts tell me (and the rest of you) about them. I better get a bigger memory stick for the camera.

Thanks for the info you posted.

There is another tank museum in Danville, Virginia. Maybe I can make a little trip to it and then run on over to the Patton museum in Kentucky. Anyone interested in pictures from the Air & Space museum in Washington, D.C., or the annex out by Dulles?




John Lansford -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 2:54:36 AM)

That's a German Ferdinand heavy tank destroyer. When they were designing the Tiger, Porsche designed a model that was rejected. There were 90 lower chassis already made though, so they put a super heavy armored box on them and an 88mm long AT gun, and used them in the Kursk offensive. Later some were used in Italy.




Blackwatch_it -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 3:18:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If ya' wanna see a King Tiger, got to the Patton museum at Ft Knox, near Louisville.........


http://www.generalpatton.org/index.asp



Yes, that's right. I forgot that the Patton museum is who has the King Tiger.

TOMLABEL


The Kampfgruppe Peiper King Tiger in La Gleize, Ardennes



[image]local://upfiles/10827/385F606BD31544D286F84CEFEAFFC44D.jpg[/image]




John Lansford -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 3:27:29 AM)

There's a much smaller armored museum in Danville, Virginia, that has many rare vehicles in it and adding more all the time.  They've got a Pzkw IV-J that was in the German, Finnish, Syrian and Israeli armies, and some APC's from the Soviet, British, German and US armies.  They're all indoors and don't allow photography, but it's a real nice visit.

http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/




JeffroK -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 3:35:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Thanks for posting your pics...they are great.    But it is a pity that so many of those tanks are sitting in the open rusting away.  Real pity. [:(]


Ditto, there is a lot of history turning into rust.

I regularly drop in at the Royal Australian Armoured Corps Museum at Puckapunyal, 60 miles nth of Melbourne.

They have about 80 AFV, from pre WW2 Medium Mk III, Vickers Mk VI, a good collection of M3 Stuarts, M3 Lees & Grants, Matilda II in many versions, A Crusader I, Cromwell(6pdr), Shermans tested on Bouganville, Chaffee, various Japanese tanks. lots of Centurions, T54/72, Swedish S Tank, & Ifv90, and while I was walking around, one of our second hand Abrams was buzzing around in the background.

All are well restored, a fantastic effort by the RAAC and the Army.




JeffroK -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 3:38:01 AM)

DD696,

Your pic of the M4 & the French Renault, I think the M4 was a 76mm gunned version rather than the Firefly.

The M4 in canadian colours would be a Firefly.




Raverdave -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 4:33:13 AM)

Yeah "Pucka" has a nice collection, and they are well looked after.  There was a rather large private collection out in the back blocks of Narre Warren North but it was all broken up and sold off.  Did you get to see the prototype Bushmasters that they blew-up as part of the testing? Really interesting stuff. 

@ John Lansford  That really ****smeoff when they will not let you take pics.....seems to me they are trying to force you to buy postcards and books from the shop that is always attached to such places.




Raverdave -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 4:33:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

RAVER![&o][&o]



G'day T [;)]




JeffroK -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 4:52:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Yeah "Pucka" has a nice collection, and they are well looked after.  There was a rather large private collection out in the back blocks of Narre Warren North but it was all broken up and sold off.  Did you get to see the prototype Bushmasters that they blew-up as part of the testing? Really interesting stuff. 

@ John Lansford  That really ****smeoff when they will not let you take pics.....seems to me they are trying to force you to buy postcards and books from the shop that is always attached to such places.


Raver,

At least the Lee/Grant is now at Pucka, another worthwhile visit is the RAAOC museum at Bandiana (Nr Wodonga, 200m Nth of Melb), they have a lot of small arms and support vehicles. They only had complete ASLAAV's, but were tidying up for ANZAC Day when I last went.





Raverdave -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 5:50:15 AM)

Yup....been there too, but that was a long time ago ( 5 years or so?).   Sounds like I need to get back there.  




DD696 -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 12:08:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

There's a much smaller armored museum in Danville, Virginia, that has many rare vehicles in it and adding more all the time.  They've got a Pzkw IV-J that was in the German, Finnish, Syrian and Israeli armies, and some APC's from the Soviet, British, German and US armies.  They're all indoors and don't allow photography, but it's a real nice visit.

http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/


According to their website, photography is allowed but flash is not. Looks like it would be interesting but it appears most of it is post-WWII AFV's. They don't provide much information as to what AFV's they have.




patrickl -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/1/2008 12:31:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackwatch_it


quote:

ORIGINAL: TOMLABEL


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If ya' wanna see a King Tiger, got to the Patton museum at Ft Knox, near Louisville.........


http://www.generalpatton.org/index.asp



Yes, that's right. I forgot that the Patton museum is who has the King Tiger.

TOMLABEL


The Kampfgruppe Peiper King Tiger in La Gleize, Ardennes



[image]local://upfiles/10827/385F606BD31544D286F84CEFEAFFC44D.jpg[/image]


Yeah, the King Tiger - meanest tankeater![X(]




John Lansford -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/2/2008 2:36:19 AM)

Yeah, they allow photos, but all the AFV's are in a big warehouse with dim lighting, so if you don't have a flash you end up with super dark pictures.  They've got a T-34-85, the Mk IV H I mentioned earlier (I recall the side skirts so it wasn't a J), some really old British and US WWI tanks, a lot of guns and artillery, and yes, mostly post-WWII stuff too.




mikemike -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (6/2/2008 3:14:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696



According to their website, photography is allowed but flash is not.


The RAF Museum in Hendon had the same restriction when I was there in '87. They had fire detectors that were triggered by photoflashes (probably some kind of UV sensors).




marky -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 2:27:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

2

[image]local://upfiles/12832/F694B4BDF3A04D778ABA67CD7FF68244.jpg[/image]



[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]




Feinder -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 4:33:20 AM)

I think the "little unknown" is a French R-35.

-F-




Historiker -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 9:58:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Late US SPA

[image]local://upfiles/12832/23DF94FD0AC2491BA49F9D9BAA5F0EE8.jpg[/image]


That's a German Ferdinand.


Wasn't this also called the Elefant? That just looked too new and in too good of shape to be one of the German AFV's. That's as good a find as the JagdTiger is.

THis is indeed an Elefant.
Mostly its the same tank but the Ferdinand was the first version without any MG. As we see a frontal Driver MG, its an Elefant.

Terminus, you're wrong. The Ferdinand was first, then the Elefant...

I wanted to help identify the rest just to see that it was already done :(




Odin -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 10:38:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

A more modern German tank destroyer. What is it?

[image]local://upfiles/12832/1E86B6A93ED84856AAE53DE632128C3C.jpg[/image]



Kanonenjagdpanzer 90mm

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanonenjagdpanzer




morganbj -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 3:49:02 PM)

I got to shoot one of those in Graf in 1974, I think it was.  I was on a range recon mission at one of the smaller ranges close to the main part of the kaserne when the range OIC, a German lieutenant, asked if I'd like to watch them shoot.  After spending a few minutes in the tower with him, he asked if I'd like to fire a few rounds.  "Hell, yes!" was my reply.

Well, we went over, climbed in, and after a couple of instructions, I got to fire three or four rounds at a silhouette target downrange.  Somebody who knows help me here.  As I remember, the trigger was foot activated (i.e., like an old floor-mounted dimmer switch?).  Am I geeting senile, or is that how it was done?  I remember it was VERY different than our M60A1s.

"Fun, fun fun, 'till daddy tool the T-Bird away."




witpqs -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 5:10:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marky

[image]local://upfiles/12832/F694B4BDF3A04D778ABA67CD7FF68244.jpg[/image]



Geez, Marky, I knew you were kinda young but take some vitamins or something! [:D]




bobogoboom -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 6:20:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

Late US SPA

[image]local://upfiles/12832/23DF94FD0AC2491BA49F9D9BAA5F0EE8.jpg[/image]


That's a German Ferdinand.


Wasn't this also called the Elefant? That just looked too new and in too good of shape to be one of the German AFV's. That's as good a find as the JagdTiger is.

history channel[8|] just did an episode of tank overhauling on this vehicle. they just restored it.




stuman -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 7:02:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: marky


quote:

ORIGINAL: DD696

2

[image]local://upfiles/12832/F694B4BDF3A04D778ABA67CD7FF68244.jpg[/image]



[X(][X(][X(][X(][X(]


Now I KNOW this will sink a Japanese Battleship. I don't care how good their armor was.




flaggelant -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 9:53:22 PM)

that bomb's gonna way over 3 tons!?!

was that a single bomb load for a 4EB???
can't imagine anything getting up in the air with that thing inside/ attached [X(]




Terminus -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 9:54:33 PM)

Erm, you have heard of Grand Slam and Tallboy, right?




Terminus -> RE: Aberdeen Proving Grounds (5/14/2009 9:56:22 PM)

The bomb, BTW, weighs 44,000 pounds and was an American weapon called the T-12. With the advent of nuclear weapons, it became obsolete.




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