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Grymme -> RE: OT - WWII quiz (1/24/2009 11:13:06 PM)
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Thanks Michael
Found this in the links section. An entire webpage dedicated to finnish armour use in WWII. Main page is mostly pictures. But there is gold in the forum part of the webpage. http://www.andreaslarka.net/
Cut from the webpage.
"The Vickers 6-ton tanks were late model VAE 6-ton Mk.E Type B tanks, fitted with the hull and turret arrangement (but not the engine) designed for the prototype Belgian VAE 6-ton Mk.F Type B tank. This arrangement is visible in every wartime and post-war photo I have seen of Finnish VAE 6-ton tanks...extended hull fighting compartment, turret offset to the right-rear. This hull form wasn't designed until 1935, though, so the test model purchased in 1933 had to be of the older hull type (short fighting compartment, turret offset to the left, commonly seen on the T-26 which was based on the older design as well).
Some sources state that only 26 of the "new" Vickers tanks were in service during the Winter War. The others, presumably seven in number, were in transit/still being completed.
Some suppositions I have, and would like comments on:
1) 13 tanks were armed for the Winter War, this being one company's worth of tanks. Coincidentally, 14 FT-17 tanks were "out of service" at the start of the Winter War, probably because these were the tanks which had their mantlets removed so the mantlets could be fitted to the 6-ton tanks for training purposes. Is this assumption reasonable? I assume that the same tanks that were outfitted for training would be the easiest to ready for combat as they had been fitted with at least some of the parts left off for cost-savings reasons.
Note that I have seen at least one photo attributed as a Finnish FT-17 captured by the Russians which had it's entire mantlet removed...the attribution seems to indicate this was one of the eight FT-17 captured still on board the train moving them to the front-lines. Therefore it is quite possible that the "out-of-service" FT-17 did see service...I cannot imagine why the Russians would remove the entire mantlet of an ancient FT-17 after capture.
2) Kimmo's post indicates the Vickers tanks were given registration numbers R-646 through R-677 (32 numbers inclusive). www.winterwar.com gives one of the Vickers tanks damaged at the battle of Honkaniemi as R-644; could this possibly be the testing tank purchased in 1933? If one assumes a theoretical (but never accomplished) issuing of the registration numbers R-600 through R-645 to the existing FT-17 tanks and the various prototype tanks purchased and/or considered during the 1930's, this numbering seems reasonable.
As for the T-26 tank, one of my sources (translated from Russian) indicates that the following numbers of T-26 tanks were repaired in 1940-1941 in time for the battle: 10 T-26 M1931, 20 T-26 M1933, 2 T-26 M1937/1939, 2 OT-26 and 4 OT-130. The same source indicates 70 non-flamethrower T-26 were captured during the Winter War - assuming a similar ratio of M1931 (two-turret) to other models, this gives almost exactly the correct number of too-damaged T-26 tanks so as to provide 45mm guns and mantlets for the Vickers tanks.
The same source quotes 102 T-26 tanks in service in 1942. Some appear to have been converted from existing tanks; the source states that six M1931 were converted using turrets from broken T-26 M1933 and BT-5 tanks, while two more were converted with turrets from broken M1937/1939 tanks. Similarly the OT-26, OT-130 and OT-133 tanks were converted. The source states that the OT-26 tanks which had their new turrets mounted to the right were the ones which received bow machine guns, while some OT-130 and OT-133 conversions received the same.
The source also notes that several of these Finnish OT-tank conversions used turrets from BT-5 and BT-7 tanks (which apparently have different pistol port closure types?). Since these conversions were done in 1942-1943, it seems possible that some of these turrets may have come from the hulls used to make the BT-42 SP guns. Any thoughts on this?
Aside from this, if anyone has any suggestions on books to purchase regarding the use of tanks in Finland, I would appreciate a posting of this information. I already have "Wehrmachtin Panssarit Suomessa" and plan to purchase the book Kimmo listed. I have also found information in David Glantz's book on the battles of 1944 in Lapland and the US Army Special Series on the Northern Theatre of Operations. Russian language books I have found info in include the Frontline Illustrations books on the T-26, BT and KV series, Armes Militaria magaine (in French) and the Osprey book on the T-34. I have also dug up some Russian language references on Russian tank forces arrayed against Finland. "
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