Scrap Lists - Default

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Shannon V. OKeets -> Scrap Lists - Default (7/23/2008 11:45:04 PM)
I want to have default scrap lists for every major power for aeach scenario - about 70 total. Here is Michael's suggestion for Guadalcanal for the Commonwealth: [image]local://upfiles/16701/019BF023018647099A48541319F3E7CA.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/23/2008 11:47:40 PM)
2nd in a series of 4. Now to understand his decisions, you need to see what remains inthe force pool. Here are the land based air units and most of the carrier air units. [image]local://upfiles/16701/2DF237909DE342E5BDCA3116D200EE29.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/23/2008 11:49:17 PM)
3rd in a series of 4. Here are the land units left in the force pool, aside from a slew of territorials that can not be scrapped. [image]local://upfiles/16701/2ACAA78C65964898A9E0454F57A55074.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/23/2008 11:52:16 PM)
4th and last in series. Finally, here are the units that were randomly selected and placed on the map. There are also a half dozen that are in production. There is no production phase in Guadalcanal, so Michael simply scrapped almost all the units he could only keeping the ones required for setup. [image]local://upfiles/16701/BB7886AE2D6C4DF88BF01E1D4F1CF0AC.jpg[/image]

brian brian -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 4:05:26 PM)
I would never scrap a division. Although I don't see how that could cut either way with the new system for divisions. ??? I would scrap all the Ethiopians aside from the (in)famous 'Highly Unlikely' HQ-I unit. I would scrap a lot more of the older FTR-2. I would keep the Harrow and the Whitleys. The latter are good for plinking away at odd corners of the German production system. The Harrow can do the same when no supply missions come up. All of that would be more applicable to the 1941 scenarios in Europe. I really have no idea what the CW even sets up in Guadalcanal. Maybe try a little more applicable situation, like the US or Japan in Guadalcanal, or Russia or Germany or Barbarossa, or any power which would surely be the most debatable choices in Global War, and I'm sure you could quickly come up with a basic system to do all 70 scrap lists. It would be based on what each power's force pool is like. Some have odd shortages in desirable units, others have odd surpluses of heavily used units.

Froonp -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 6:03:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian brian I would never scrap a division. Although I don't see how that could cut either way with the new system for divisions. ??? Wholeheartly agreed. Never scrap a division. Even with the so called unlimited breakdown, which is not unlimited and not without a cost. quote: I would scrap all the Ethiopians aside from the (in)famous 'Highly Unlikely' HQ-I unit. Agreed quote: I would scrap a lot more of the older FTR-2. Agreed, if more are scrappable.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 6:39:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian brian I would never scrap a division. Although I don't see how that could cut either way with the new system for divisions. ??? I would scrap all the Ethiopians aside from the (in)famous 'Highly Unlikely' HQ-I unit. I would scrap a lot more of the older FTR-2. I would keep the Harrow and the Whitleys. The latter are good for plinking away at odd corners of the German production system. The Harrow can do the same when no supply missions come up. All of that would be more applicable to the 1941 scenarios in Europe. I really have no idea what the CW even sets up in Guadalcanal. Maybe try a little more applicable situation, like the US or Japan in Guadalcanal, or Russia or Germany or Barbarossa, or any power which would surely be the most debatable choices in Global War, and I'm sure you could quickly come up with a basic system to do all 70 scrap lists. It would be based on what each power's force pool is like. Some have odd shortages in desirable units, others have odd surpluses of heavily used units. Thanks for the feedback. I asked Michael to start with the easiest 2 scenarios so we could first establish a systematic way of defining default scrap lists. I'll post them all here as I receive them. By the way, I am not really looking at the content of these decisions and instead I am relying on forum members, such as yourself, to help buff and polish these lists.

paulderynck -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 8:11:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp quote: ORIGINAL: brian brian I would never scrap a division. Although I don't see how that could cut either way with the new system for divisions. ??? Wholeheartly agreed. Never scrap a division. Even with the so called unlimited breakdown, which is not unlimited and not without a cost. quote: I would scrap all the Ethiopians aside from the (in)famous 'Highly Unlikely' HQ-I unit. Agreed quote: I would scrap a lot more of the older FTR-2. Agreed, if more are scrappable. Although generally I'd agree, as Steve said there is no production in this scenario, so these choices make sense for setting-up. Nonetheless I would keep the divisions unless playing with unlimited breakdown (BTW is that a RAW optional? - I don't think so.) Two motorized divs could make two guaranteed invasions off one TRS in the right circumstances and more importantly can be used to regenerate infantry divs on breakdown.

Edfactor -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 8:55:28 PM)
generally i think scrapping aircraft as soon as possible makes sense, most of the times when they are old enough to be srapped its because they arent going to be much use. A notable exception is often NAV which can be usefull for a long time. I hate scrapping ground units but i can see sometimes it makes sense especially with Territorials and some amor.

michaelbaldur -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 9:21:25 PM)
the divisions are a mistake ...

Froonp -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 9:21:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: paulderynck Nonetheless I would keep the divisions unless playing with unlimited breakdown (BTW is that a RAW optional? - I don't think so.) It is not RAW (you would know that [:D]), but it is in MWiF. It is not unlimited either. You can break as many corps you want into 2 DIV, but as long as those 2 DIV are in game, you can't build the corps again.

sajbalk -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 10:02:47 PM)
I would be happy to help with this task. How do I get the graphic part of the program needed to send these to the bboard? I would volunteer for the Global War (1939) campaign for all powers as I know it best. Could also do the Barbarossa scenario for both sides.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 10:17:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sajbalk I would be happy to help with this task. How do I get the graphic part of the program needed to send these to the bboard? I would volunteer for the Global War (1939) campaign for all powers as I know it best. Could also do the Barbarossa scenario for both sides. Great! Michael Baldur is working on the default scrap lists for the Barbarossa scenario already. You should send him a PM and establish communications via email. Michael is a beta tester and should be able to provide some screen shots of the scrap form. If the two of you have trouble with that, Michael can probably get another beta tester to help with screen shots. I need to work on other stuff and would be happiest if the default scrap lists could be defined/created without my involvement.[:)] [image]local://upfiles/16701/0BAE332CCF924C32A59FAE38F6B23006.jpg[/image]

Froonp -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/24/2008 10:56:24 PM)
I think that the best to show scrap lists is simply to show lists of units. List of scrapped, list of available & not scrapped. You can use the Excel spreadsheet at my website for help. Posting screenshots to show scrap lists is quite awkard & cumbersome IMO.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/25/2008 1:56:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp I think that the best to show scrap lists is simply to show lists of units. List of scrapped, list of available & not scrapped. You can use the Excel spreadsheet at my website for help. Posting screenshots to show scrap lists is quite awkard & cumbersome IMO. A spreadsheet might be hard to work with. Beside the fact that most players are more comfortable looking at the counters, ... One of the things that must be kept in mind is how many units of each type are needed for setup. The program does those calculations and shows the numbers at the top of the scrap form as you pass the cursor over each unit (the numbers for that unit's type: e.g., F2). Additionally, the numbers vary for each nation within a major power. So in later scenarios Germany has required units for Bulgaria, Rumania, Finland, and so on. Similarly, the Commonwealth has required units by each of its member nations. Required units for setup include not only those that are placed on the map but also those in production, repair, and construction. Carrier air units can be required for carriers, including ASW carriers. There are a lot of details that go into the calculations of the numbers at the top of the Scrap form. Trying to do the same thing using a spreadsheet is non-trivial. One of the reasons I suggested this to be done for the easiest scenarios first is because of all these ramifications.

michaelbaldur -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/25/2008 1:03:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sajbalk I would be happy to help with this task. How do I get the graphic part of the program needed to send these to the bboard? I would volunteer for the Global War (1939) campaign for all powers as I know it best. Could also do the Barbarossa scenario for both sides. i�m happy for your offer of help .. but it is faster for me to do it my self .

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/25/2008 9:30:05 PM)
First of 5 in series. Here is the proposed scrap list for the USSR in Barbarossa [image]local://upfiles/16701/2AF2F42EAC23413FB83BC0137799A3D4.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/25/2008 9:31:16 PM)
2nd in series. Scrap list for Germany in Barbarossa scenario. [image]local://upfiles/16701/E948FE688F5A4A03AB38D47309FC8213.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/25/2008 9:32:44 PM)
3rd in series. Scrap list for CW in Guadalcanal scenario. Yes, there are exactly 52 units. [image]local://upfiles/16701/3BBFEB27C53747419C41B5AC78FF4D04.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/25/2008 9:33:49 PM)
4th in series. Scrap list for Japan in Guadalcanal scenario. [image]local://upfiles/16701/3084B5F0442A4FB2A4CA1AFF500746EE.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/25/2008 9:35:41 PM)
5th and last in series. Scrap list for USA in Guadalcanal scenario. All of these lists were generated by Michael 'Baldur' - Thanks![&o] [image]local://upfiles/16701/E4F551B8547C4E0F8B58D85CFC329D3D.jpg[/image]

Orm -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 1:05:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets 2nd in series. Scrap list for Germany in Barbarossa scenario. [image]local://upfiles/16701/E948FE688F5A4A03AB38D47309FC8213.jpg[/image] I would scap alot more units to get better units on the map since production will have limited impact on the game. I would scrap: FTR2 - all 6. LND2 - 2x Hs123 LND3 - all 8. ATR3 - both (all) Inf - 4-4 inf (If playing with unlimited div I would also scrap 2x 5-3 since I would break down at least one corp into divs before start) Mot - all (4) (I wouldn't build any Mot anyway) Mech - all (2) (No builds of these either.) Arm - 7-6 (I sure aint building Arm for a 5 turn game.) Art - both (2) (There are other art I rather have) Mtn - 5-4 Para - 4-3 Trs - all (5) Sub - all (9) Since I can scrap more units later I scrap none of the types that hasn't at least one unit in the setup. -Orm

michaelbaldur -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 2:20:53 PM)
thank for you imput ... I try to take the middle ground ... some people want to scrap alot and some people not at all ... I going to take a look at it again ... pps ..I don�t know what game version you are looking at .... but .. there are only 5 ftr2 ...all scrapped there are only 6 lnd3 ...all scrapped there are only 1 art .... there are no para that can be scrapped but I will scrap the subs and one more arm ... 2 more inf .. the art ... the 2 atr3 but not the .. mot and mec and mtn ... they are as good as the ones you can build and there is not many land units left in the force pool ... ppps i�m change Russia according to the same priorities pppps about the para ... something is wrong ... it is a 1938 unit in 1941 ... if I understand the rule.. it have to be scrapable ... I will put steve on that ...

Orm -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 3:38:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur thank for you imput ... I try to take the middle ground ... some people want to scrap alot and some people not at all ... I going to take a look at it again ... pps ..I don�t know what game version you are looking at .... but .. there are only 5 ftr2 ...all scrapped there are only 6 lnd3 ...all scrapped there are only 1 art .... there are no para that can be scrapped but I will scrap the subs and one more arm ... 2 more inf .. the art ... the 2 atr3 but not the .. mot and mec and mtn ... they are as good as the ones you can build and there is not many land units left in the force pool ... ppps i�m change Russia according to the same priorities FTR2: Is there not following fighters? 1934: He-51 1935: He-51 1937: Me-109b + Me-109c 1938: Me-109e1 + He-112 And is there not a 1938 4-3 para? And so on... As I see it Germany can scrap units 3 years back since they are not neutral at the start of the scenario. -Orm

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 7:45:54 PM)
You have found a bug in the Barbarossa scenario. I fixed it this morning. See below. [image]local://upfiles/16701/76F59079819348F398EE57DE78A19931.jpg[/image]

sajbalk -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 8:34:33 PM)
It is my interpretation of the rules that the CW lend lease planes (green stripe) do not even enter the force pool unless the corresponding US planes are placed into the LL pool. As such, the CW and the US can never scrap identical planes. If the US scraps, it is never a buildable CW unit, and the CW cannot scrap unless the US has placed it into the LL pool. For the Guadalcanal scenario, this would include the Buffalo, etc.

michaelbaldur -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 8:41:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm quote: ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur thank for you imput ... I try to take the middle ground ... some people want to scrap alot and some people not at all ... I going to take a look at it again ... pps ..I don�t know what game version you are looking at .... but .. there are only 5 ftr2 ...all scrapped there are only 6 lnd3 ...all scrapped there are only 1 art .... there are no para that can be scrapped but I will scrap the subs and one more arm ... 2 more inf .. the art ... the 2 atr3 but not the .. mot and mec and mtn ... they are as good as the ones you can build and there is not many land units left in the force pool ... ppps i�m change Russia according to the same priorities FTR2: Is there not following fighters? 1934: He-51 1935: He-51 1937: Me-109b + Me-109c 1938: Me-109e1 + He-112 And is there not a 1938 4-3 para? And so on... As I see it Germany can scrap units 3 years back since they are not neutral at the start of the scenario. -Orm it is bug...the German scrap list is set to neutral major power ... so there is allot of units missing ... the right ftr2 list is 1934 he51 1935 ar68 he51 1937 bf109b bf109c 1938 he112 bf109e1

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 9:05:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sajbalk It is my interpretation of the rules that the CW lend lease planes (green stripe) do not even enter the force pool unless the corresponding US planes are placed into the LL pool. As such, the CW and the US can never scrap identical planes. If the US scraps, it is never a buildable CW unit, and the CW cannot scrap unless the US has placed it into the LL pool. For the Guadalcanal scenario, this would include the Buffalo, etc. Yes. That is how it works in MWIF. However, there is no need to scrap lend lease planes (those with a stripe). Just don't request them from the source country.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 9:07:42 PM)
Here are Michael's lists for Fascist Tide. This is basically half of the Global War scenario. [image]local://upfiles/16701/244AAE7BC50D4118B95DDDF8A463BB19.jpg[/image]

Froonp -> RE: Scrap Lists - Default (7/26/2008 9:07:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sajbalk It is my interpretation of the rules that the CW lend lease planes (green stripe) do not even enter the force pool unless the corresponding US planes are placed into the LL pool. As such, the CW and the US can never scrap identical planes. If the US scraps, it is never a buildable CW unit, and the CW cannot scrap unless the US has placed it into the LL pool. For the Guadalcanal scenario, this would include the Buffalo, etc. Right. If the US scrap the F2A Buffalo, the CW don't have it (and can't scrap it), it is in the lend lease pool. As Lend Lease is the first step in the game (MWiF), so if the US did not lend lease it to the CW, it is still in the lend lease pool and can't be scrapped by the CW.

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