RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (Full Version)

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Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/24/2009 6:35:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

ahh, but what if Mannerheim traces 2 hexes overland to the road to Helsinki, also a secondary supply source for German units? There another path can start, the way we play, and that would get it done with the one-hex overseas requirement for the German unit.


Answered in previous post:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio
... Mannstein wouldn't have any problem to use his 4 hexes reduced to 2 in rain, to reach the road, reaching Helsinki, and use 1 of the new 4 hexes of the line Helsinki- Königsberg. All the same, it could "feed" with supply to german units up to 2 hexes away from itself in the worst climatic case.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
No because it is he who traces (Mannerheim, not Mannstein :-)), not Helsinki.
A railway supply path can ONLY be between a secondary and a primary.
From a secondary to a secondary, this will be a basic supply path (4 hexes).






Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/24/2009 6:41:24 AM)

For the first time USSR now has a decent defence line. Reserves are a bit to low for comfort and there is still a risk of outflanking.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/F3EC55F81F1D454FAD0D81383E5A8D80.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at the end of Allied Impulse 3, September/October 41.



Snydly -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/24/2009 7:02:20 AM)

Man I feel for the Germans ... looks like an otherwise promising Offensive has now been bogged down by storms and mud ... which also means the impulse marker is moving quickly on the chart.

I predict Germans will have a sucessful taking of Moscow in Nov/Dec but the Russians will counter attack and retake Moscow ... for national pride.[8D]



paulderynck -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/24/2009 7:24:28 AM)

Deleted - duplicated Post #121



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/24/2009 8:34:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Snydly

Man I feel for the Germans ... looks like an otherwise promising Offensive has now been bogged down by storms and mud ... which also means the impulse marker is moving quickly on the chart.

I predict Germans will have a sucessful taking of Moscow in Nov/Dec but the Russians will counter attack and retake Moscow ... for national pride.[8D]

The scenario is 5 turns long. This is the 3rd impulse of the 3rd turn.

If some decent weather happens, the Germans have a shot at Moscow. But the Russians counterattacking in the winter is a serious threat - and then the game will be over.



brian brian -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/24/2009 4:53:23 PM)

I kept forgetting that the Mannerheim HQ was two hexes from the road as well, and the hypothetical German unit was then two hexes from Mannerheim. And, I never realized that adding an extra secondary link, such as using Helsinki, can't be a railway path in all these times of playing the game. Thankfully the computer will soon keep me straight on this stuff.

I like playing the Barbarossa scenario on occasion, but we usually just end up kibbitzing about the long-term implications for Germany and Russia. With Orm's wonderful AAR being just about to the exact mid-point, I was wondering how each side stands in terms of the victory conditions for the scenario?

I think the early aircraft dice and the all important weather roll at the beginning of Sep/Oct 41 just may have saved the Russian bacon in this one.

I also frequently forget that when attacking enemy armor, you can use an overall advantage in armor, i.e. the power to select the combat table used, to still pick assault in an attempt to actually kill the enemy armored units. This is especially true when these enemy tanks leave clear terrain, and when a power, such as the Russians in 43 or so, can afford some infantry casualties and have a three hex front to attack from. A +5 attack on two German ARM? Let's make that an assault.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/25/2009 10:14:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I like playing the Barbarossa scenario on occasion, but we usually just end up kibbitzing about the long-term implications for Germany and Russia. With Orm's wonderful AAR being just about to the exact mid-point, I was wondering how each side stands in terms of the victory conditions for the scenario?


Victory Points:
Germany: 20
USSR: 21

So USSR is ahead by one point. I find it a bit funny that at the moment the victory points is exactly as the historical outcome was.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (7/26/2009 10:45:08 PM)

The weather turns unexpected to clear (30% chance) so Germany decides that Rundstedt should launch an offensive to break the Soviet defensive line from the south. Massive bombing raids by Stukas against Zhukov fails in large part by the 2 antiair brigades stationed in the area surrounding Zhukov´s HQ. Germany seeks comfort that the Soviet union lost its best fighter in the intense air combat.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/48B0D3DC810846008B675A874DFD8B37.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at German Land Combat Declaration, Impulse 5, September/October 41.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/11/2009 10:06:09 AM)

German attacks goes better than expected. Germany is now close to encircle Moscow. Both Rundstedt and von Bock organized German units leaving most of the German forces ready to continue the attack but could lead to supply trouble with only von Leeb mobile.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/CB98B9036090429891B1F77E002D259F.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at end of German Impulse 5, September/October 41.



peskpesk -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/11/2009 5:17:03 PM)

Looks like a big game over for Russia.



brian brian -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/12/2009 10:01:32 PM)

In a full war, this would be dangerous for Russia, although at this point they could still preserve their armor for the future by keeping it out of Stuka range. I think they got lucky with that with poor dice for the Luftwaffe earlier in the summer.

For this scenario and it's particular victory conditions, things still seem to hang on a very fine edge for each side.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/16/2009 9:12:09 PM)

USSR sends 2 bombers to ground strike the last face up German HQ. The German fighter aborts both bombers. USSR rails in 3 militia and manages to create a thin defence line around Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/0917E15A2DCB410F89509AC1A05239F0.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at end of Aircraft Rebase in USSR Impulse 6, September/October 41.



brian brian -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/17/2009 10:21:25 PM)

thanks again Orm! this last picture creates a quick question for me: How does MWiF decide on a status indicator for a stack? The top unit? Majority rules? Multiple indicators?



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/17/2009 10:51:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

thanks again Orm! this last picture creates a quick question for me: How does MWiF decide on a status indicator for a stack? The top unit? Majority rules? Multiple indicators?


It is the indicators of the top unit that is shown.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/18/2009 1:08:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

thanks again Orm! this last picture creates a quick question for me: How does MWiF decide on a status indicator for a stack? The top unit? Majority rules? Multiple indicators?

Both the Flyouts and Units in Hex forms let you see the status indicators for all the units in the stack. [This example is not from the game that Orm is reporting on.]

[image]local://upfiles/16701/BCEE01A4CC434B55B3783083E3129F14.jpg[/image]



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/19/2009 10:21:08 PM)

The weather turns to rain (60% for bad weather) and the German offensive stops. Most attacks give to low odds for Germany to dare even when it is late in the turn. The possibility to take 2, or even up to 4, units as losses is to scary. The best odds Germany could get on one of the hexes that are not attacked was only +2 on the 2d10 attack table.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/F86581681066494BACE5547D5C20FBC1.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at German Land Combat Declaration, Impulse 7, September/October 41.



AbeSimpson -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/20/2009 6:28:40 PM)

Fine aar! IMO one of the best "you have to buy this game" argument seen here. [8D][:D]



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/20/2009 10:38:05 PM)

Turn ends early (only 10% for it to end) to Germanys dismay. USSR wins the initiative after Germany asked for a reroll.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/A08964F8623C4A7DBAAAF8864930EE6B.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at the beginning of USSR Impulse 1, November/December 41.

The scenario ends after the January/February turn 1942.



Grapeshot Bob -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/21/2009 12:50:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Turn ends early (only 10% for it to end) to Germanys dismay. USSR wins the initiative after Germany asked for a reroll.


Ooooh. It's enough to take the starch out of your shirt.

Bummer for the boys at OKH.

I look forward to the rest of this.



Mark



composer99 -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/21/2009 2:56:46 PM)

So the big question is: now that it is snow, is there anywhere the USSR could look at launching its big winter counter-offensive?

It would have to be careful. If Germany still has its o-chit in its pocket Moscow could yet fall.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/21/2009 3:19:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: composer99

So the big question is: now that it is snow, is there anywhere the USSR could look at launching its big winter counter-offensive?

It would have to be careful. If Germany still has its o-chit in its pocket Moscow could yet fall.

Germany used its offensive during Impulse 5, September/October 41.



composer99 -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/21/2009 5:19:25 PM)

Sounds like time to go to town.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/23/2009 6:31:47 PM)

The Soviet Union now feels that Moscow is secure but that reserves are to low.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/3C58793F06D94D34A4848F584A62A07F.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at the end of USSR Impulse 1, November/December 41.



micheljq -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/24/2009 1:24:52 PM)

Secured? The german broke the front in the south with a large gap and they are exploiting it.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/24/2009 2:05:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Secured? The german broke the front in the south with a large gap and they are exploiting it.


Indeed.

But remember that this is the Barbarossa scenario. Next turn is the last turn. With the weather this bad and the turn advancing fast towards the end, I, as USSR, belive that Moscow will hold untill the end.

With such bad weather as it is now it is now there a modifier for more bad weather next impulse as well. If the weather turns fine this turn it could still be trouble for Moscow but it is only 10% chance of that happening.

What I ment with secure was that with the current weather, snow, Germany would not be able to make any decent attacks on the defence line surronding Moscow. Also note the word "feels".

Maybe a picture of the southern front is appropriate now?


[image]local://upfiles/29130/F613A1676836413590FD22258003A9BE.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at the end of USSR Impulse 1, November/December 41.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (8/24/2009 7:17:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: micheljq

Secured? The german broke the front in the south with a large gap and they are exploiting it.

Orm's point is that this is a game, and as such, the rules at the start of the scenario stated there would be 5 turns (only). All games are like this, with things happening outside of the given simulation definition that can be argued up, down, and sideways.

As it is, the USSR is looking for a draw, not a win (or at least I think that is the status).



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (9/13/2009 2:15:57 PM)

Germany has at the moment a small victory and would like to capture additional cities but do not feel like taking low odds attacks in bad weather. Germany therefore just did one automatic attack on a 2-3 Militia.

The bad weather turned even worse...

[image]local://upfiles/29130/0EADB916A7204629A709D285DE5B3A9D.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at the beginning of USSR Impulse 5, November/December 41.



Orm -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (9/14/2009 5:10:51 PM)

Not much happens during the storm. Both sides have trouble with the supply as well.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/E38817317834493892067A919F0ED06D.jpg[/image]
Picture taken at the beginning of German Impulse 7, November/December 41.



SLAAKMAN -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (9/14/2009 11:50:46 PM)

I just want to enjoy watching a bloody exchange resulting in the annihilation of all forces involved on the very last impulse of the very last turn. [:D]



SLAAKMAN -> RE: Barbarossa and Army Group Center in pictures (9/14/2009 11:52:40 PM)

Ya'll wanna blow up dontcha?

He blowed up good!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dfoVqhQVyQ



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