RE: PBEM 1A (Full Version)

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Mus -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 1:15:38 AM)

I will put in some details later.  Lenin should help out too.  Im off for dinner with my parents will be back later tonight.



IronWarrior -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 1:16:52 AM)

Ok, no problem.

Cheers and bon apetit!



Kingmaker -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 9:00:09 AM)

HiHi

Bill just spotted this on another thread, answer from Ericbabe;

Break the treaty! You will continue to lose glory for every turn you continue to default. Sometimes it is not possible to fulfill your treaty obligations due to the other rules of the game, but that is actually according to the game design.

We are reducing the glory penalties for the first game update, since they are perhaps too punitive at present. We are also trying to make the treaty default messages more informative.

Heres the link so you can see the Question;

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2063025

All the Best
Peter




Mus -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 9:03:37 AM)

At the bottom of that thread Eric says they already fixed a bug where the wrong player was losing glory for "a particular treaty clause."

Is that declare on enemies of X clause that we are now all familiar with?

I didnt see it mentioned in the patch synopsis.

I guess we will see when the patch comes out.



barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 10:00:49 AM)

If the wrong player is losing the glory, what are we gonna do here?

If we could specifically trace why the glory is being lost, we could credit the player who has lost the glory and charge it against the correct player (I suppose Matto could keep official specific tabs), but because the glory loss points aren't labelled very well, it is hard to tell.

Thoughts?



Mus -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 10:10:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

If the wrong player is losing the glory, what are we gonna do here?

If we could specifically trace why the glory is being lost, we could credit the player who has lost the glory and charge it against the correct player (I suppose Matto could keep official specific tabs), but because the glory loss points aren't labelled very well, it is hard to tell.

Thoughts?


I dont really want to get into manually tracking Glory, what a PITA that would be.

If others want I guess we could, but I would prefer that WCS just patch it. If I recall correctly this is the short game (1000 glory) anyways, so lost glory will just make this game last longer so we get more practice before starting up some new marathon games after the patch.



Matto -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 2:02:33 PM)

It is easy, everybody must be careful when creating treaty ...
Now you have two possibilities, like wrote Eric, cancel treaty or cancel alliance not corresponding to treaty ...



Franck -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 2:39:20 PM)


IMHO when we will play a longer game that won't be as much of an issue... Because in fact, when you play longer games, Glory is not as much an issue as the high and lows of your country...



IronWarrior -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 4:49:17 PM)

I wonder if I cancel the treaty, does that mean I would then lose the Bavarian provinces that Austria had to liberate as part of that treaty?

I understand what you guys are saying, but it leaves a bitter taste for me. This was no ordinary treaty, it was Terms of Surrender after all. Clauses that I was under the impression that Austria HAD to accept... as it should be imo.

Perhaps I'm bull-headed but it doesn't seem right that I should be the one that has to cancel my treaty... Terms of Surrender. Why? Since this is a practice game I will let France's Glory rot into the bottom depths of Hell before I cancel the Terms of Surrender that I feel should be enforced. [:'(]

Being careful when making a treaty is one thing, but why should a nation be so limited in drafting terms of Surrender? Doesn't make sense to me.



barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 5:06:38 PM)

"I will let France's Glory rot into the bottom depths of Hell before I cancel the Terms of Surrender that I feel should be enforced."

LOL

I think that you shouldn't be suffereing for imposing a treaty on them.  Seems like it should be Austria who needs to cancel the treaties.  And actually, I am still for keeping track of it manually until the patch is released.  Or we will be playing forever. But I am willing to do whatever the group decides on.



IronWarrior -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 5:11:49 PM)

Was there historical precedence for this? For example, did Napoleon ever suddenly "pardon" the Treaty of Vienna or other Terms of Surrender?

Edit: just re-read the link you posted, Peter... looks like it is indeed a bug that will be fixed for next patch (if I understand correctly).



barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 6:58:35 PM)

Eric did say this is a bug.  And that things are being charged to the wrong people. 

We already have a house rule in place for the "bug" of how minor nations are controlled and traded.  I don't think it would be difficult to keep track of proper numbers manually either. 

But again, I will go with that the group decides.



Mus -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 8:40:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Eric did say this is a bug.  And that things are being charged to the wrong people. 

We already have a house rule in place for the "bug" of how minor nations are controlled and traded.  I don't think it would be difficult to keep track of proper numbers manually either. 

But again, I will go with that the group decides.


So do you manually track the penalties to their rightful owner or do you manually track what peoples Glory would be had they canceled the conflicting treaties?



barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/2/2009 10:36:27 PM)

I am suggesting manually tracking the penalties for the proper person...and crediting those wrongly penalized.  Assuming we can agree on which credits and penalties go where.



Franck -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 12:53:06 AM)



I'M against tracking. What I will do tough is in my next turn I will cancel some treaty (if I find out how). Not this time because the turn is done... But I believe some of my treaties are coming to an end (ie Peace treaty with Russia). It is not my intention to abuse the situation.



Mus -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 1:30:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

I am suggesting manually tracking the penalties for the proper person...and crediting those wrongly penalized.  Assuming we can agree on which credits and penalties go where.


Yeah, but I guess my point is that peoples actions change depending on whether or not they are taking Glory hits, so applying it retroactively isnt fair.

In other words Franck would have immediately canceled his treaties that were in conflict if he knew he was going to be penalized -40 per clause violation.

Does it make more sense explained that way?



IronWarrior -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 2:07:21 AM)

Guys,

It's probably more trouble than necessary to keep track of lost Glory. Let's continue on... I don't really care if I win or lose, the point was to bring up a possible issue, especially considering a new patch is on the way, in order to get a possible fix/rule change for a future game.

I consider this a learning/practice game for us all, and hope that we can get another one going after the patch. I only hope that I will get another chance to play as the French sometime in the future after the next patch update. [;)]

Franck... please don't cancel anything for this next turn at least... I want to be sure (or at least somewhat) that it actually is because of the DoW problems and not the liberation issue. Thanks for the show of sportsmanship though. Being a practice game we might as well try to find out what the cause is.



lenin -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 7:49:13 AM)

It could well be a combination of both IW. Certainly for Britain this turn, we lost 120 Glory for (I imagine) Austrian DOW problems, whilst in our other game I was losing 40 each turn as Britain couldn't DOW, then I lost a fortune cos you couldn't liberate all of Bavaria. Agree we should all plunge ahead though, can't be bothered to manually keep track of glory.



lenin -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 1:11:21 PM)

British turn in.



Kingmaker -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 1:48:59 PM)

HiHi

Russias T18 orders sent in.

All the Best
Peter



barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 2:46:34 PM)

Sweden's Turn 18 is in.



Matto -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 9:57:45 PM)

Waiting for Ottomans ...



Mus -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/3/2009 10:41:56 PM)

Turks in.  Sorry for the wait.  I got too busy and forgot to submit my turn.  Im going to try email them as soon as I play them from now on.



Franck -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/4/2009 3:26:15 AM)



I started to do just the same! I was keeping it until the deadline, but then I was always a bit late. By sending it right away I have taken care of most of the problem.



Matto -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/5/2009 9:47:49 PM)

So waiting just for Sweden ... 



barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/5/2009 11:15:47 PM)

Wow.  That went fast.  I was expecting a rolling succession of "Turn In" announcements.  Turn was due Wednesday morning, Czech time...right?

Anyway, Sweden T19 in too.



Matto -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/6/2009 9:24:32 AM)

Yes, you had a time ... I just informed, that all others played ...




barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/6/2009 11:19:24 AM)

[X(] 25,000 losses storming Copenhagen! :) Well, at least I have trained recruits ready to stand in.  But that hurts!  Those weren't militia in there! 

But I still have to say, this is the most fun I have had gaming since 1988.



Mus -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/6/2009 12:26:53 PM)

French lose 63,000 men storming Hamburg...  Thats just stunning.



barbarossa2 -> RE: PBEM 1A (5/6/2009 1:05:19 PM)

Yeah.  63,000. I think there were 30,000 guys in there!  Well, at least he has a ton of replacements trained and ready to go.  I hadn't realized the staying power of a well garrisoned fort with non-militia units in it.  He should have had Vauban with him.

France is so flexible, that's a loss they can easily overcome.  It would take a quick concentration of forces to knock any single enemy out of the game for Napoleon. He's a lucky, "well endowed" man. :)



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