RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (Full Version)

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and2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (7/29/2009 6:30:39 PM)

I see the test rumour. On my first turn after taking over from Franck, I planted one aswell not sure if anyone saw it.

I tried to make a joke about Don Manydeals, the Spanish trademinister, seen heading west out of Cadiz. ie. fired off to America :)



montesaurus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (7/29/2009 7:45:10 PM)

I agree with Mus. I would prefer to receive the files unzipped. Keep it simple!



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (7/29/2009 9:10:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barbarossa2

Do all rumor plantings work?


I think its a random chance. No idea what the exact odds are.



and2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (7/30/2009 6:32:02 PM)

No zipping then :) just thought it could bypass the filters.

Missing turkish turn and I good to go for a combine

UPDATE: Combined and mailed to hotmail group



montesaurus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (7/31/2009 5:01:07 AM)

Just wanted to let everyone know that I have a new laptop, and am up and running![:)], and open to any new diplomatice missives!



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/1/2009 4:17:00 AM)

Did we adopt a no insurrection house rule for this game or not? Trying to clarify for each game so I can keep it straight by putting a reminder in my sig.



and2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/1/2009 3:27:52 PM)

I still vote no to inssurections untill we get a patch, then I think we should return to vanilla ie. no house rules.

There's a problem with combining the game, Monte's rep file is just 1 kb ( normally 140ish kb) As a consequonce I cant see events when I do take my turn for Spain.

Id rather not corrupt the game, so dont mess with the files.

Could you retake your turn monte and mail it again?

Thanks



montesaurus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/1/2009 8:22:41 PM)

The Turkish turn is redone. Now that Chindits mentioned it, I also noticed I was unable to read the "events" for my turn, figured it was a fluke and went ahead and did the turn.
Today, after reloading the turn I WAS able to read events, and redid the turn.
Hopefully no problems this time.
After having listened to the various arguments, I would prefer to keep the insurrection option. Ask me again after this game is done though, but since this is my first PBEM game I prefer to keep it in play to see how well it works.



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/1/2009 9:06:21 PM)

Votes for no insurrection house rule.

Mus=Y
IronWarrior=Y
AndrewKurtz=Y
And2=Y
Timurlain=?
Kingmaker=N
Monte=N
Barbarossa=N

Barbarossa and Timurlain please vote, if I missed your votes in the thread, please restate in reply to this post.

Insurrection is really ruining "Another PBEM" right now. We have now had about 1 insurrection a month for the last 2 years and around 30 in the last 36 months. Depending on how bad it gets in that game I might decide not to waste my time on games that dont adopt a house rule, or limit my participation in said games to those in which I play a textile rich country that can exploit this flaw to maximum game detriment to illustrate just how broken it is.

[sm=00000007.gif]



and2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/2/2009 5:58:37 AM)

Turn 17 mailed

Enjoy :)



barbarossa2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/2/2009 10:24:53 PM)

The King of France is disappointed in the hyper aggressive actions of the British king as demonstrated by:

1. His desire to make sure that Sweden does not gain control of a share of Europe which will make it a power with an equal voice.
2. His desire to destabilize the peaceful balance in the Mediterranean which the Spanish, Ottomans, and French had agreed to.
3. His need to oppress others through the instrument of war and intimidation.

There is no moral ascendancy in open aggression and non-negotitated land take overs.

France will continue to push for a powerful Sweden and Prussia, a stable and secure Austria, Ottoman Empire, and Russia.

I have made it clear that I would come to the aid of anyone who had a total war declared upon him. This will continue to be the case, be he Russian, Austrian, Prussian, Swedish, Spanish, Ottoman, or British. I will not let anyone be bullied or oppressed by the British war machine and stand for freedom, openness, and negotiated spheres of influence. France sees her security in the security of her neighbors. All of them.

Louis XVI



Kingmaker -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/2/2009 11:32:16 PM)

HiHi

Insurrection is really ruining "Another PBEM" right now. We have now had about 1 insurrection a month for the last 2 years and around 30 in the last 36 months

Err, ... might that be over Egging the pudding a tad Mus? [:)]

‘Another PBEM’ is on Turn 70, during that time according to the ‘Events’ page there have been 161 attempted Coup/Insurrections of which 16 have succeeded; while maths never was my strong point [&:] I reckon that’s around a 10% success ratio [X(] , possibly not quite the daunting phenomenon it’s been painted up?

Just in case anyone’s interested, and again according to the ‘Events’ page, the Roll call of Honour runs thus,

Napoleon 3 successful attempts.
Ataturk 3 successful attempts.
Metternich 3 successful attempts.
Fersen 3 successful attempts.
Thugay 2 successful attempts.
Fouche 1 successful attempt.
Hardenburg 1 successful attempts.

Maybe it’s just me but I find it strange that we should be considering implementing a ‘House Rule’ [>:] to thwart the Evil designs of something with a 10% success ratio! But then again it’s not in my Sphere of Influence that these events are occurring so I must own up to a certain amount of prejudice on the matter [:D]

All the Best
Peter



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/3/2009 12:02:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingmaker

Err, ... might that be over Egging the pudding a tad Mus? [:)]


Maybe a bit of hyperbole. I like to steal debating techniques from liberals in that regard.

[;)]

Run around screaming that the sky is falling until the problem gets fixed.

I will note (assuming your information is correct) that the number of insurrections taking place in "Another PBEM" is 4-5 times higher than Ericbabe says was envisioned for an entire game, 3-4 events total.

So there still is a problem. I still think a house rule is in order.

Also people have only been going whole hog with the insurrections over the past 2 years or so. Before that it was just a hobby, now its being done full time by several players. It will only get worse as people realize how overpowered it is.

As an example, the Diplomat Napoleon I think has only existed for a few turns and has successfully insurrected 3 times according to your numbers.

When you build diplomats in high court provinces they have much better numbers than the starting diplomats, and are thus more suited for exploiting this unbalanced mechanic. With higher espionage ratings they are more successful at insurrecting, and with higher legal ratings they are harder to expel.

And there is still no case for war caused by insurrections like this, it can still be done by defeated parties in a war, etc.

I think the existence of problems with the way its working now is almost not up for honest debate, given that the developers are already fielding potential fixes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingmaker
But then again it’s not in my Sphere of Influence that these events are occurring so I must own up to a certain amount of prejudice on the matter [:D]


Agreed.

People who have been on both ends of the stick like Ironwarrior think its appropriate to restrict it.



IronWarrior -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/3/2009 12:10:03 AM)

Interesting stats Peter. I think most of those also happened in the last year or two of the game though, in part there wasn't a need for it earlier and partly because everyone found out how powerful insurrections can be. I think where the problem comes in, is when "super-diplomats" are created by a nation like I did with "Napoleon". In this case, that diplomat has a 75% success rate (3 insurrections in 4 attempts).

You haven't been hit by it yet, but when I create my next "super-diplomat", Davout, I'll be sending him to retake Italy. [;)] Of course, you guys did a good job of hitting my textiles production, so it might not happen. Better yet, maybe I should ignore Prussia and go after Spain with my army of diplomats since France has nothing to lose anyway. I'll see if I can't change your mind. [;)]



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/3/2009 2:17:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IronWarrior
You haven't been hit by it yet, but when I create my next "super-diplomat", Davout, I'll be sending him to retake Italy. [;)] Of course, you guys did a good job of hitting my textiles production, so it might not happen. Better yet, maybe I should ignore Prussia and go after Spain with my army of diplomats since France has nothing to lose anyway. I'll see if I can't change your mind. [;)]


LOL... I am noticing a theme of banished Generals returning as Diplomats of the same name to take their rrrrrrrrrevenge.

[:D]



Kingmaker -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/3/2009 9:56:00 AM)

HiHi

Mus, Bill.

a bit of hyperbole Sheeee!! and it’s the English that are reputedly famous for “Understatement”, you practising to get British citizenship Mus? [:)]

(assuming your information is correct) Yer I thinks so, spent a couple of boring hours on a sunny Sunday afternoon collating the info off the ‘Events’ page, I went through every turn and can now tell you for any given month which Diplo was engaged in Coup/Insurrection and where. [>:]

Interesting stats Peter. “Stats, Stats & Damn lies” eh? [:'(]

that the number of insurrections taking place in "Another PBEM" is 4-5 times higher than Ericbabe says was envisioned for an entire game, 3-4 events total. Yep, but what I’m arguing against a ‘House rule’ for is not against the fact that something is wrong with Coup/Insurrection, if Eric suggest it shouldn’t be working that way then obviously there is.

Rather I’m suggesting that, as mention before, we are in effect 2nd generation Beta testers and working on that hypostasis, then by altering the Matrix we alter the way we see the game playing out, but the base game stays as it is. IMO it would be much better to leave well alone, it affects everybody after all, and by notifying the Devs they can then have accurate feedback on how the game as it is is playing out in PBEM, they can then fix it in the next patch ... (That said has anyone ever noticed if Eric or Gil pop up on the ‘Opponents wanted’ Threads, I do hope they are tuning in there is a hell of a lot of valuable feedback on these pages, shame if they missed it [:(] )

I think most of those also happened in the last year or two of the game though, Yes that certainly correct, eg up to T33 there were 41 attempts with only 2 successes, in the last 10 turns there were 40 attempts with 6 successes Napoleon 3 Ataturk (? an original Diplo) 2 & Metternich 1

Just a thought do original Diplos improve over time with ‘Success’ ?

You haven't been hit by it yet, but when I create my next "super-diplomat", Davout, I'll be sending him to retake Italy That fine by me Bill, it’s part of the Game and if I haven’t got an adequate response then that’s “Tough Titty” on my part. you guys did a good job of hitting my textiles production, sorry that wasn’t designed, I just thought it Good manners to go round after Terje and tidy up [:D]

Aaaanyhow Nuff Yak, that’s how I see it, notify the Devs of probs, leave the game as is, and get on with it warts an’ all.

All the Best
Peter



barbarossa2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/3/2009 10:18:31 AM)

I'll do whatever you guys want to do on the insurrectionists. But based on Kingmakers statistics from his other game, I would be mildly for leaving it in and trying it out.

I also agree with Kingmaker's position that is important that we test the game as is, so we can provide feedback based on more playings--especially in PBEM.



barbarossa2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/3/2009 2:34:55 PM)

France wants to make it clear that we condemn any major nation which attacks its neighboring powers. We will NOT accept the reduction of Prussia, Austria, the Ottoman Empire, Russia, Sweden or Spain.

[image]local://upfiles/19419/76DC20F697544BDB94C6BDCF472E9D3B.jpg[/image]



montesaurus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/3/2009 2:35:45 PM)

Turkish turn 17 is in.
I also favor not using house rules. I prefer to play a game as designed, and dealing with it's issues, until the designer decides something is not right.



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 6:18:01 AM)

Who are we waiting on for this one?



timurlain -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 1:08:52 PM)

Prussian turn sent yesterday ...



barbarossa2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 1:31:11 PM)

You are waiting for me. I will have my turn in tonight.



barbarossa2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 1:38:14 PM)

Because of this illegal and unprovoked declaration of war and act of aggression and affront to European civilization, France is considering all of her options.

This insult to the laws of war may force us to change our plan. We had merely wished to finish in the top 4 without engaging in conflict with ANYONE. Every peaceful means of negotiation had been used to prevent war. Requests were sent to ask Britain in advance what they would like from France to guarantee her security.

No response was received.

The Atlantic was evacuated to help Britain feel secure and again diplomatic dispatches were sent.

No response was received.

Apparently, without any set of demands Britian's only goal is to reduce France, whose court at Versailles was virtually the last nation to secure a minor neutral after all of Europe had already claimed and carved up vast swaths of territory for themselves.

Declaration after declaration that France sought peace and trade have apparently been ignored. Repeatedly. Intentionally.

This shabby act of aggression does nothing more than put Europe on warning as to who cannot be trusted to bring about a fair settlement in Europe. If something doesn't suit Britain, there will apparently be no negotiations, no demands. The order of the day will be unprovoked surprise attacks!

Britain's barbarity and unilateral reach for the weapons of war to change the status quo, without presenting any demands in advance which France could have even given thought to--and potentially agreed to--merely present the war mongers of London in the skulking light that they deserve to be.

May God have mercy on their souls.

Do I need to say I-L-L-E-G-A-L again?


Louis XVI
King of France
Defender of the Faith and the Laws of War

[image]local://upfiles/19419/134847BA88C54D5D97C183FF5865CB7C.jpg[/image]



barbarossa2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 8:19:45 PM)

The king of France has ordered a 24 hour a day, 7 days a week watch posted at Calais. There, we have erected a tent with a table in it. In that tent sit two amassadors of France, with a small guard. They will wait there with the torches burning, until the Britsh king decides to behave himself like a member of civilization--instead of like the barbarians who sacked Rome--and presents some reasonable demands which Versailles can consider.

Louis XVI has even ordered that tea and biscuits be permanently readied for any British diplomats who aren't too ashamed of their kingdom to begin peace negotiations.

We had thought the permanent evacuation of the Atlantic had been enough. Apparently not. Perhaps he wants Picardy, Normandy, and Brittany too?

(P.S. French turn is in)



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 8:25:52 PM)

Oooooh Tea and Biscuits.

Glad to see this game heating up.

All this talk of peace and prosperity was making me sick.

[:D]



montesaurus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 10:34:17 PM)

Ahhh, the Giants of Europe are in conflict!
Woe be to all of us!



and2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/4/2009 11:22:09 PM)

Turn 18 posted

Enjoy!

Chindits



Mus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/5/2009 12:00:47 AM)

Austrians in.



montesaurus -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/5/2009 12:51:32 PM)

turn 18 done for the Turks



barbarossa2 -> RE: 1792 No frills PBEM (8/5/2009 4:03:57 PM)

France T18 in.



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