RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo...

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LoBaron -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/13/2009 4:00:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar And you should have listened me about Burma. [:D] I'd have immediately withdraw to Akyab - Cox Bazaar - Chittagong -Imphal - Ledo -line. Let him come through the jungle first. Sardaukar not really sure aubout this. [;)] If id notice a full retreat in Burma as Japanese player id rush forward ASAP. Im not sure when Rangoon fell...somwhere araund P11 of this thread i think. The closing of the Burma Road 2-3 weeks earlier would have made the supply situation in China even worse than it already is. I think since aztez wants to stand and fight in China giving the Burma Road away for free wasnt really an option.

aztez -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/13/2009 9:30:54 PM)
What an day just got home and I did send the turn back. God I hate banks and their papers and more papers. Thankfully last day of work tomorrow since I'am spending some overtime hours so I can get the daughters with from Wednesday night through Sunday. Astarix: Yeah, I think those two brigades are toasted for good. After this battle he only has some 37 operational units in the area! It is an waste for sure but that suits me just fine. As you said I guess he feels that those upcoming reinforcements are plentiful. We see an eye to eye on the leaders. Those changes might not always be visible but I think they do matter since surrender routines calculate them in the mix, etc. I don't know how many hundreds of PP I have already used but most certainly I will keep doing this in the future too. I looked and those destroyed ones were "poor quality" troops and elite of the ABDA units are left to duke it out. I still think that the next turn shall see an shock assault at Batavia and that will finish the resistance there. Hopefully we can damage those industrial resources if and when this happens. I have already actuallu recieved some good units already and more are coming in regular cycles. Whether or not it is too late for India remains to be seen but I will go toe to toe with him if he chooses to invade here. Those defeated burmese army units are heading towards Lashio and I will airlift them out once they are in an safe hex. We just recieved some 30 transport aircraft which are immediately deployed into southern India. Kalemyo is too far south so I have opted instead to fortify and strenghten Imphal area and Chittandong. I'am still not convinced I should send in troops to Akyab. It is a bit far and reinforcements will take longer to arrive if needed. The supply situation at India is absolutely fantastic. I'am also shipping daily runs from Aden and Cape Town. There are some units heading into Colombo/Tricomalee so ceylon is no push over. It is actually already an fortress to be reckon with. As always appreciated comments, ideas and tips. Sardaukar: Hmmm, 20/20 on hindsight? [:D] Yes, I might as well withdrawn them but you know me I hate to give anything for free so maybe even these disastrous battles slowed him down a notch. Now he has troops further up in the north so his supply lines will become strecthed. The java "schedule" is an good thing but it does not seem he is too corcerned on this economical state at least he is hiding it very well. LoBaron: I think the Rangoon was indeed lost around "page 11". [:D] As for your analysis. I concur that is the reason why I stayed in Burma. If we had left completely he would have had the chance to deploy even greater armies elsewhere. Now Dave has committed an sizeable force here and he really even haven't met our quality troops sitting well rested and supplied here. Burma road was an factor since every bit of supplies do help in china. Now I have to live without it though but this was to be expected. He could have cut earlier but to hold it out almost into summer 1942 an absolute plus. I would love to fight even more... maybe we get lucky and he storms into soviet union. You can always wish for this but that is highly unlikely to happen.

LoBaron -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/14/2009 11:05:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aztez I would love to fight even more... maybe we get lucky and he storms into soviet union. You can always wish for this but that is highly unlikely to happen. I guess you are right that this wont happen. even if he does not read seydlitz´ AAR its obvious that he really has to commit large forces there if he wants to accomplish anything against the SU. he is too involved on other fronts that this is an option. doing it like seydlitz is trying, early on and with full focus on this area, it really looks like a viable strategy. but now when his forces already have to cover the whole pacific theater invading SU would put him at a great disadvantage.

Sardaukar -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/14/2009 11:30:03 AM)
Well, to defend Burma, one would need in my estimation a minimum of 5 div worth of good troops. Numbers just are not there and troops available are not good.

Yamato_Blitzer -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/14/2009 11:41:21 AM)
When are your next 2 carriers due aztez?

Graymane -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/14/2009 1:31:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar Well, to defend Burma, one would need in my estimation a minimum of 5 div worth of good troops. Numbers just are not there and troops available are not good. And air superiority/parity and/or a lot of air transports. I don't see how to keep 5 divisions supplied in Burma early on. If you can tie down everything in Malaya and hold Rangoon with your best air forces you have a chance. But the Japs have enough land air and naval air to take it no matter what you do, including going around your back and landing in the Chittagong area. This is especially risky if you are sticking 5 div into Burma, what do you have left to protect your base of operations in india?

SuluSea -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/14/2009 3:27:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aztez SuluSea: . How is your PBEM going btw? I read that you had a game on active mode againts loricas? Actually I'm playing Swenslim but I believe he is playing loricas as well. It's early 1-19-42 I only lost one capital ship so far Maryland [my home state so it was a double dagger] , so I'm happy about that. I feel he gave me a huge break by not attacking Pearl on the first turn. I knew he was hunting carriers but Lady Lexington flew her Marine DBs to Midway just got close enough to Wake to haul aboard some needed Wildcats and still got away. It was risky, I felt like I was stealing but it felt good none the less. China is well..... China. I'm trying to get a handle on my supply shipping. still working that out but moving many tons of it. We had a huge battle awhile back, Battle of Miri, It's been the only battle so far that I can hang my hat on. A couple weeks later this was almost repeated with Repulse and POW on his Singkawang invasion force which I saw coming but had a bonehead moment and was one hex out of positon. I took a chance and chased during the night time phase during the next turn but they got away. In Malaya I was going to defend in depth but once the Oscars showed up and started wrecking Buffaloes I decided to concede the air war over Singapore, On Maylaya all forces retreated down into Singapore over time. I figured let my best in the area which isn't a whole lot get the benefit of all the triple A on the peninsula in one location rather than get wrecked/destroyed piecemeal. Swen is very aggressive IMO, he just landed on Port Moresby and it will fall soon although I'm getting my behind kicked almost all over the map I hope the tide will turn at some point.[;)]

aztez -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/14/2009 7:44:28 PM)
LoBaron: I know he read seydlitz AAR and likes it too. The way I see it that thread is fantastic in many ways and people really should take a look on the "dark side" of things. As said it is highly unlikely that he will do it due fortification issues and also that I have managed build up strenght with airforce too. Sardaukar: That is an fair estimate. I think 5 divisions of quality troops is at least what is needed at Burma. Even that might be too little if japanese come in with force. Yamato_Blitzer: I will post two pics with the monthly update to show these arrivals. Graymane: I think you could keep those 5 divisions supplied but the problem most definately is the fact that you do not have that kind of force to start with. It will strip India "naked" and there would most likely be invasions made by human opponent. I have kept my RAF forces out of action so far. The main and only reason being that I do not want to exhaust those pools and leave India wide open. There quite a lot of Hurricanes and other fighters now in place to counter any moves he will make here. SuluSea: Oh, my mistake there. You sometimes get side tracked on who was playing who. That summary sounds like enjoyable game and I do not have any doubts that both of you have some nasty suprises ahead! I think I have learned a lot regarding china with this episode so far but I'am still not convinced I could hold even if we started all over again. (This is not going to happen though so don't worry about this) I wish both of you good luck with the PBEM game. It is always good to hear when people find respectable opponents and after all that is what this all about. Time for the quick turn update and it was far from action packed. The whole combat txt file was A4 at max so there seems to be an breather for few days after all these horrific battles. I will also post few screenshots from the start of May 1942. These will regular sets of screenies and do not need much explaining at all.

aztez -> RE: April 1942 - disaster at Schwebo... (10/14/2009 7:45:31 PM)
Java (april 30th - may 1st 1942) The turn contained only one battle of worth reporting. The japanese forces launched two day assaults againts dutch troops holding out at Batavia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Batavia (49,98) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 44527 troops, 487 guns, 292 vehicles, Assault Value = 1191 Defending force 14327 troops, 300 guns, 57 vehicles, Assault Value = 171 Japanese adjusted assault: 373 Allied adjusted defense: 211 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 1) Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), experience(-) Attacker: disruption(-) Japanese ground losses: 569 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 21 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 20 disabled Engineers: 5 destroyed, 9 disabled Vehicles lost 8 (0 destroyed, 8 disabled) Allied ground losses: 1797 casualties reported Squads: 35 destroyed, 41 disabled Non Combat: 79 destroyed, 82 disabled Engineers: 4 destroyed, 9 disabled Guns lost 5 (0 destroyed, 5 disabled) Vehicles lost 17 (14 destroyed, 3 disabled) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Batavia (49,98) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 44242 troops, 487 guns, 292 vehicles, Assault Value = 1177 Defending force 13085 troops, 300 guns, 47 vehicles, Assault Value = 120 Japanese adjusted assault: 432 Allied adjusted defense: 171 Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1) Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), experience(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 451 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 21 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 24 disabled Engineers: 4 destroyed, 6 disabled Vehicles lost 7 (0 destroyed, 7 disabled) Allied ground losses: 2269 casualties reported Squads: 99 destroyed, 16 disabled Non Combat: 71 destroyed, 67 disabled Engineers: 6 destroyed, 4 disabled Guns lost 8 (3 destroyed, 5 disabled) Vehicles lost 16 (13 destroyed, 3 disabled) Assaulting units: 3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment 21st Infantry Regiment Imperial Guards Division 2nd Tank Regiment 56th Engineer Regiment 5th Engineer Regiment 21st Division 113th Infantry Regiment Sasebo 8th SNLF 5th Mortar Battalion 1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment 3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 56th Field Artillery Regiment 8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 1st RF Gun Battalion 2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion Defending units: 1st KNIL Regiment Mobiele Eenheid Battalion 2nd KNIL Regiment Batavia Coastal Gun Battalion 1st Regt Cavalerie 4th KNIL Regiment Padang Garrison Battalion 1st KNIL AA Battalion KNIL Army Command Merak Base Force ML-KNIL Batavia Base Force 3rd KNIL AA Battalion 1 ML-KNIL Aviation Bandoeng Base Force I guess this as close it comes when talking about ground combat miracles with AE. I take with an smile though but the luck will run out. This was most definately an extra "bonus" here. The forts are back to level 1 now but I think he might get 3:1 odds and that will do it for him. There still are not any enemy troops at Soerabaja. I find this somewhat odd at the moment. [image]local://upfiles/15617/A3E5D45175AB40C7A0D68466F1E14677.jpg[/image]

aztez -> May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:46:25 PM)
The intel screen... [image]local://upfiles/15617/5624F40DC58E4B6094336CC2C4CDD2A7.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:47:14 PM)
The Pacific "theatre"... [image]local://upfiles/15617/1092A4E87032474A8C9E383A78F1DFAB.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:48:46 PM)
Aircraft losses. Keep in mind that these have FOW included... [image]local://upfiles/15617/A911D701029247E09F01860898CD8CE7.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:49:24 PM)
Top aces of war... [image]local://upfiles/15617/0B0E753E520B4B929DACCFD0EB91FA77.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:50:27 PM)
Allied fighter replacement pools... [image]local://upfiles/15617/EE59B7AB84144494ACB800ACD8A95F66.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:51:15 PM)
Allied bomber replacement pools... [image]local://upfiles/15617/6BFDAE6BCD3C46AEB8E4CC9E5FECBAD4.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:52:02 PM)
Scheduled carrier reinforcements... [image]local://upfiles/15617/6A94467847EE4CD4978F2C41FE7FF05C.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 7:52:54 PM)
Scheduled infantry reinforcements... [image]local://upfiles/15617/ACCC3BB85EEA4D7A83EEE07055B142B2.jpg[/image]

LoBaron -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 10:27:04 PM)
aztez what i notice from your intel screen is that on the plus side you have less aircraft lost points which is astounding since the really strong allied fighters are yet to come (yes i know that a great deal of those losses are Japanese 2 engine planes that - but it still looks good) so you dealt out quite ok there [:)] one question: is see the CV´s Yorktown II and Lex II i thought sunk carriers wont get replaced in game? would those carriers still arrive if you hadnt lost those in the first place?

jrlans -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/14/2009 11:57:11 PM)
One bright spot is the fact that you still have a P-40 pool im prety impresed. How much of the west coast did you have to strip to keep the pool viabable?

Sardaukar -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 8:06:39 AM)
Not too bad. Note that those Marines are coming in few weeks. Then you can start to think where to use them. [8D] Back to Burma a bit. MAYBE one could keep it, by moving all semi-decent Indian divisions there, in addition to 6th, 7th AUS and 18th UK div. But then one would have only absolutely bare-bones strategic reserve and in very vulnerable position. Problem there is, that Allied supply comes almost totally from Rangoon. If losing the blocking position in Pegu, it's curtains for Burma. Either you start to suck supply from China (not a good idea) or supply has to come through jungle. Not a good idea either.

Yamato_Blitzer -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 12:30:56 PM)
That carrier schedule is another glimmer of hope. Are you gonna wait for Essex to arrive before sailing out? Maybe im too cautious but I think it would be wise to wait for that at least. Maybe even wait for Bunker Hill and carrier respawns too. 7 Heavy carriers with new plane types, good chance of smashing him to the point of no return. not trying to be an adviser. I'm just curious when you plan to sail out your CV tf's. He hasn't lost any CV's yet has he? That's gonna be one intense carrier battle in 1943.

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 7:26:09 PM)
LoBaron: I take that as an compliment. I have tried to do the best job possible with the limited fighters available. A lot of his losses are also operational ones since he has conducted very aggressive campaign so far. Hmmm, to be honest I don't know. I'am aware that stock gc do not have the respawn option on so I guess these ships would become active even if not lost. jrlans: Thanks. I take your word for it since I do not have anything to compare these numbers. Yet, they are very low to even think about strong offensives. The P40E pool got a bit better when I did withdraw those ABDA fighters. I have also been doing a lot of switching in west coast area as you guessed. Absolutely impossible to say the amount of changes in west coast area. Sardaukar: Appreciated. Those marines are nice units but it is still too early to deploy them into any hazardous outposts. The game has now entered into phase 2. Both sides are looking at the map and thinking diffrent options through. I will post more offensive plans next week. Eventhough I cannot estimate the date when these can be conducted it is good to have drawn early on. As said those will be posted next week when the kids go back to the ex. It is definately not practical to move those quality divisions out into Burma, Maybe those semi-divions are an go but I wonder how much good they will do there since the ground combat model is brutal. Yamato_Blitzer: The RN carriers are about the enter Balboa. I checked and I have withdraw 2 of them in few months time and it seems they are not coming back either anytime soon. I try to stay flexible but if things are not progressing and we do not any good chances to intervene it might be a good idea to wait for CV Lexington II and CV Yorktown II. I cannot afford to lose these battles for nothing. We shall whether I can combine carriers with lba fighters/bombers and than maybe time to intervene. That call will be made case by case basis. No. He hasn't lost any carriers yet and if things remain as it is than we shall see monster clash of titans in 1943 as you predicted. What I said to Sardaukar. The game has entered now into phase 2 and I guess this was expected.

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 7:27:10 PM)
Pacific (may 2nd - 3rd 1942) The turn itself was very peaceful. I don't see an point to go into sector by sector analysis so instead I will post an overview map describing the latest events. [image]local://upfiles/15617/76E00F1E14414897BEFE2E98A3F965C5.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 7:28:11 PM)
India (may 2nd - 3rd 1942) There has a lot of talk whether India is possible to invade and what the the defense looks likes after the burmese front collapsed. Here is an pic describing the situation at Burma - India frontier/border. We are deploying units constantly and more are enroute. This doesn't mean I have neglected either Ceylon nor Madras areas. [image]local://upfiles/15617/0B1B9C94E0A9487DA469AC9DE5D83957.jpg[/image]

jrlans -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 8:42:36 PM)
Do you think Dave will realy be able to mount an invasion of India? My guess would be there is at least 3000 AV readly avalabile to throw any invasion back. I have not checked the experience of those groups in my game as I have already recaptured burma from the AI (the same tricks works in AE that existed in Witp) Even if they were in the low 40s (the lowest i can imagine them being) I would think there are enough troops to keep him bottled up in one base with a constant resuply effort just to keep it open. Ceylon however is another matter have you reinfroced the garrison there at all? I would think you proably have at least 2 weeks before his next major opp. Kb took some prety heavy losses and im sure he needs some time to rebuild the air groups before sending them in again. (not exactly sure how most japanesse players are going to do that now weather they are going to use the pools or the standard disband method) As to potential targets, I only realy see 3 maximum, Cent pac (midway, jhonston), Inida/Ceylon (of the 2 inida would be suiside and even ceylon would be a pain for him to keep supply open to) and NZ, which gives little stratgic or tactical benifit. I cant see an invasion of southern Austriala as it opens up way to many reserve ground units for you and would actualy shorten your supply lines (you would no longer need to try to supply it)

Swenslim -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 9:10:53 PM)
India is too huge to conqure and has too good railway system wich gives allied side tremendoes mobility. But Ceylon and Diego Garcia are perfect spots to land for Japan ! If Japan player will take Noumea and this bases he can totally disrupt allied convoy system to Australia.

Yamato_Blitzer -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 9:14:34 PM)
yea it's hard to say whether you can wait or not, that was my thought also. It seems that maybe you don't have a choice with his successes considered....a successful carrier clash, a more "sure thing" you get with waiting for the lex and yorktown may be necessary.

Yamato_Blitzer -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 9:25:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Swenslim India is too huge to conqure and has too good railway system wich gives allied side tremendoes mobility. But Ceylon and Diego Garcia are perfect spots to land for Japan ! If Japan player will take Noumea and this bases he can totally disrupt allied convoy system to Australia. If the Jap player captures eastern India it gives him a big resource/industry boost. I remember reading one WITP AAR where the Japanese player managed to capture OZ and East India, in the end it gave him such a huge boost that he was able to grant huge expansions to his naval ship yards, greatly accelerate his ship production and more than match the Allies in naval strength. He then engaged the Allies in 1943 in one big mother of all battles, the numbers were 1:1..and he won.... India being "to huge to conquer" doesnt really matter. The Eastern part of India is the decisive part and all the rest is not only pointless, but unnecessary for the Jap player to go after. Yes it means the Allied player can recieve british reinforcements and eventually counter-attack, but by then (if the Jap player left any reasonable defense behind) it's to late.

crsutton -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/15/2009 10:57:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yamato_Blitzer quote: ORIGINAL: Swenslim India is too huge to conqure and has too good railway system wich gives allied side tremendoes mobility. But Ceylon and Diego Garcia are perfect spots to land for Japan ! If Japan player will take Noumea and this bases he can totally disrupt allied convoy system to Australia. If the Jap player captures eastern India it gives him a big resource/industry boost. I remember reading one WITP AAR where the Japanese player managed to capture OZ and East India, in the end it gave him such a huge boost that he was able to grant huge expansions to his naval ship yards, greatly accelerate his ship production and more than match the Allies in naval strength. He then engaged the Allies in 1943 in one big mother of all battles, the numbers were 1:1..and he won.... India being "to huge to conquer" doesnt really matter. The Eastern part of India is the decisive part and all the rest is not only pointless, but unnecessary for the Jap player to go after. Yes it means the Allied player can recieve british reinforcements and eventually counter-attack, but by then (if the Jap player left any reasonable defense behind) it's to late. My experience with WITP is limited but one of my good Japanese opponent tried to Invade India in May of 1942. My experience was that what was a good idea in March of 1942 was not such a good idea in May. For these reasosn. Upon taking Burma and stopping, Japan assures that aside from air combat, India and the British are really out of the war for at least a year. They just don't have the carriers and transport for any sort of attack but a land attack and this really can not be done. Invading India in May of 1942 ensures that the Allied player gets to use his British forces and airforce to attrit Japan. If Japan invades India in May, then the Allies, (assuming they have their carriers) are strong enough to make major attacks in the Central and South Pacific. To invade India calls for Japan to commit KB and major surface forces in support. By May or June of 1942, the American and Australians have plenty of troops and ships to make mischef in the Pacific. My opponent hit India in May and had plenty of initial sucess. However, with five American carriers and two British in the Pacific, I invaded and retook Guadacanal, Port Morsby and Tarawa. If the Americans hold those places in July 1942, they are not going to lose them again. Once my opponent realized that India was his a fat "tar baby" that he had stuck his foot in, he gradually quit sending me turns and dissapeared. One note, I almost always send American bomber and fighter cadres to India early in the game. It was hard to do in WITP but easy in AE due to Cape Town. I had three squadrons of P39s and three of mauraders en route from the East Coast on day one and they are just beginning to arrive in Cape Town in mid January of one of my games. Sometimes I send some heavy bombers or convert one of the maurader squadorns to LB 30s. This allows you to start a serious air campaign vs Japan at an early date and forces Japan to commit first line fighter units to Burma. The P39s are not great but they can handle any Japanese plane other than the zero and then convert to lightings. If you can hold or retake Aykab then you can slam Rangoon.

LoBaron -> RE: May 1942 begins... (10/16/2009 9:43:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton Once my opponent realized that India was his a fat "tar baby" that he had stuck his foot in, he gradually quit sending me turns and dissapeared. imho the art of playing the Japanese side is to know when the point has arrived to quit your big offensives and defend what you have achieved until game ends. ive seen this a couple of times that people confuse tactical offensive capabilities with strategic overall capability. as Japanese its nearly always better to have the "gut" feeling when to stop and not stumble over it by beeing stopped by the first Great Allied Counter... easier said than done though... [:D]

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