RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago...

RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (Full Version)

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skrewball -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 7:40:27 AM)
That's a good idea on taking those islands! Remember you don't need to keep them, just give the illusion that you want them. Make him think they are valuable to you! You may not even need in really invade. Just spend enough time bombarding to make him think you want to invade. He'll have to pull ships and supplies from other areas to counter your "invasion". Raids were developed to boost Morale. That's what you need. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makin_Raid Do any of those Northern Japanese outposts have Resources/Oil/HI? A quick carrier raid would cost him supplies in repair. Not to mention he would have to base and upgrade defense fighters to keep you from coming back. In one of my old WITP games, I built a massive bombardment fleet and sailed to Wake undetected. I bombarded wake for 3 days and withdrew. My opponent was sure of an invasion and sat the KB just out of range for the next week. After we ended the game he asked me what happened to the Wake invasion force...I just told him that "It would have arrived eventually" [:D]

Swenslim -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 10:49:00 AM)
But neveretheless this operation would be kamikaze act by americans, so I dont like the idea. All troops will be destroyed in 1-2 weeks with minimal to Japan losses.

seydlitz_slith -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 12:56:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LoBaron Wow seydlitz. Bold move. And it really could disrupt/delay his plans. a few problems that i notice while thinking about it: - its close to Japan and the Philipines, reaction time maybe 3 days for warships if he got a strategical reserve and very easy to bring a substantial ammount of planes in from both places (at least zeros which have the legs to do it) - Aztez would have to avoid detection from both Marcus Islands and Japan, even maybe from Saipan i would have at least 1 Mavis/Emily Unit on the small islands and at least 2 LR Patrol formations on the mainland. if these pick his fleet up chances are that he got more than 3 days reaction time. and as Japan i would react very aggressive to a fleet on western heading towards my flank. might ruin my timeplan but id at leasr feel confident with an early deciding battle, even if i do it on the invasions return leg. Very interesting plan though and a success could change the situation quite a bit. btw i hope thats no recent map from your own AAR...could be BMatch is watching this AAR, at least i would. No worry, the map isn't from my current game. I loaded up a fresh game to take the snaps. Some secrets from the dark side are as follows (and these are typical of just about all Japanese players): 1. Reaction from Japan would be minimal at first. Odds are that Dave has ALL of his Nell and Betty units down south near the edge of his advances where he can use them to troll for enemy shipping and also to watch for the enemy advance. Even if some were in Japan, he would also have to have zeroes with drop tanks available to escort them. This would be a situation akin to what the allies saw when they first landed at Guadalcanal and the Japanese had to scramble forces from Rabaul, Kavieng, and Truk. 2. Naval reaction would be violent, just like it is should be. However, if you hold in an open hex outside of 12 hexes and wait until his carriers turn up elsewhere, you can pretty much guarantee that you can get in, land, unload enough gear, supplies, and troops, and run your transports back out before the carriers get there. Depending on how far away the KB is, Dave may even have to refuel first and would be steaming at full speed to get there, damaging his ships. The strongest initial naval reaction would be out of Truk with any warships there as any warships in the home islands at this point would usually be new arrivals, ships being repaired, and ships being upgraded. In a prior stock game, I did the same trick at Hakodate. The reaction was violent. I had to fight a couple of cruisers that were at the home islands on day 3 and then the KB on day 8. In that game I chose to slug it out and lost my carriers but so did Japan and I damaged his navy so bad that expansion was pretty much over for Japan. There are many things that you can do in setting the trap, including dropping mines in the hexes to hit him when he lands as well as concentrating your subs around the islands to bag his ships. Biggest risk is an ASW air unit based there to spot subs spotting you the day before you arrive, but that is an acceptable risk.

seydlitz_slith -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 12:58:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: skrewball That's a good idea on taking those islands! Remember you don't need to keep them, just give the illusion that you want them. Make him think they are valuable to you! You may not even need in really invade. Just spend enough time bombarding to make him think you want to invade. He'll have to pull ships and supplies from other areas to counter your "invasion". Raids were developed to boost Morale. That's what you need. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makin_Raid Do any of those Northern Japanese outposts have Resources/Oil/HI? A quick carrier raid would cost him supplies in repair. Not to mention he would have to base and upgrade defense fighters to keep you from coming back. In one of my old WITP games, I built a massive bombardment fleet and sailed to Wake undetected. I bombarded wake for 3 days and withdrew. My opponent was sure of an invasion and sat the KB just out of range for the next week. After we ended the game he asked me what happened to the Wake invasion force...I just told him that "It would have arrived eventually" [:D] Shikuka, the Japanese city on the southern end of Sakhalin Island is an oil center. It is also lightly defended and you could pull the same trick there, but since it is in the cold zone you run extra system damage to your ships and you will have unpredictible flying weather which could really hurt if weather grounds your planes at a critical moment.

seydlitz_slith -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 1:01:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Swenslim But neveretheless this operation would be kamikaze act by americans, so I dont like the idea. All troops will be destroyed in 1-2 weeks with minimal to Japan losses. You have to view this as a long term raid, not a permanent act of occupation. I put the survival at one to two months and even then Japan has to pull units from elsewhere that delay his operating tempo.

bklooste -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 1:10:42 PM)
I agree with seydlitz here the most effective Japanese players empty the home islands ( relatively) historically this was not possible due to the risk of enemy action but few players are brave enough. Especially some fast armoured units could smash airfields as well. It will attract significant Japanese forces including KB so it would be an excellent diversion for a major counterstrike.

LoBaron -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 1:28:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seydlitz No worry, the map isn't from my current game. I loaded up a fresh game to take the snaps. Some secrets from the dark side are as follows (and these are typical of just about all Japanese players): 1. Reaction from Japan would be minimal at first. Odds are that Dave has ALL of his Nell and Betty units down south near the edge of his advances where he can use them to troll for enemy shipping and also to watch for the enemy advance. Even if some were in Japan, he would also have to have zeroes with drop tanks available to escort them. This would be a situation akin to what the allies saw when they first landed at Guadalcanal and the Japanese had to scramble forces from Rabaul, Kavieng, and Truk. 2. Naval reaction would be violent, just like it is should be. However, if you hold in an open hex outside of 12 hexes and wait until his carriers turn up elsewhere, you can pretty much guarantee that you can get in, land, unload enough gear, supplies, and troops, and run your transports back out before the carriers get there. Depending on how far away the KB is, Dave may even have to refuel first and would be steaming at full speed to get there, damaging his ships. The strongest initial naval reaction would be out of Truk with any warships there as any warships in the home islands at this point would usually be new arrivals, ships being repaired, and ships being upgraded. In a prior stock game, I did the same trick at Hakodate. The reaction was violent. I had to fight a couple of cruisers that were at the home islands on day 3 and then the KB on day 8. In that game I chose to slug it out and lost my carriers but so did Japan and I damaged his navy so bad that expansion was pretty much over for Japan. There are many things that you can do in setting the trap, including dropping mines in the hexes to hit him when he lands as well as concentrating your subs around the islands to bag his ships. Biggest risk is an ASW air unit based there to spot subs spotting you the day before you arrive, but that is an acceptable risk. @1: You got a point there though i was more referring to a situation where he reacts to the TF sighting and not to the actual landing. in this case he could already have a number of planes transferred there before the invasion TF�s are even close. this could lead to a scenario similar to the "unsinkable carrier" scenario we discussed earlier in the Fiji situation. @2: I am just digging into my first experiences with AE so i cant support my argument with hard facts and you outexperience me by far on such a topic but isnt 12 hexes (or even more) a distance that is easily covered by a couple of Mavis/Emily patrols? maybe i tend to be a bit paranoid but in a game that relies as heavily as this one on intel and half known recon data id be 100% awake the moment i spot anything close to an bigger fleet thats moving to my flank and we all know that japan tends to be weak on its eastern front as far as defensive capabiklity is concerned. last not least i think this is a great idea but very risky depending on the opponent and im just trying to play devils advocate this time. [:)]

Rob Brennan UK -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 8:16:01 PM)
quote: The only problematic thing is the movement of lba aircraft on future operations. It is an tricky business and can cause some real problems. I have already think about this even if we are on the defensive stance now. Thats what your CVE's are for .. P40/P38 etc .. no range , no matter fly em off a CVE and bingo all ready for use. Lets face it the air components on CVE's are usually poorly trained and you can always swop the fighters for a DB group on a main line CV so your CAP isnt affected at all. Fiji actually makes a good base for the S class boats. non dud torps could easily ruin his day as no major ports anywhere close by. WOW seydlitz , you don't mess about do you [&o]. thats a v bold and ballsy plan there. Another option might be to invade the northern kuriles just before winter sets in with a ton of engineers and supply. given the winter invasion penalties you could have them for a full 3 months building forts/airfields etc before having to worry about a counter invasion. and i would seriously doubt japan can afford to waste KB for 3 months in crappy weather conditions stopping reinforcements. looks like you have a lot of support Aztez /cheer ..

rattovolante -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 8:52:23 PM)
Seydlitz's plan is daring, I like it :) The main problem it has is that IMO it only works if your opponent allows it by leaving a large area underdefended... but in this case, Japanese expansion was so aggressive that I think likely that the north pacific is underdefended. BTW you might use it as a feint, he might panic and recall more than he needs to react. What/where are your major naval assets (CVs, BBs, CAs)?

stldiver -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 10:03:48 PM)
I wouldn't recommend the operation, as a converted Samurai. Japan has a stream of troops coming thru that need to head out to theatres. I would relish the chance to load them for a base close to Japan and destroy American units there, far from supply lines. I would just divert transports around the islands causing a few days delay, then within a week or two send in the troops and wipe out valuable assets. This would really not slow down the advance, for the value of lost units and time it took to prepare and get there.

jrlans -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 11:17:00 PM)
Seydlitz plan is definatly daring but a huge gamble, you have no recon in the area and thus no confirmation that troop size hasnt gone up. No guarantee that Mini Kb, or surface forces arent in the area or close enough to react to sink your transports before they can even unload. That being said, if you could secure the islands and establish a working air bases you could easily bring in some Marine DBs as well as medium bombers and cause some serious trouble. I wouldnt expect your medium bombers could hit much more than merchants so I would want the DBs there to interdict any heavy surface forces he would bring in to dislodge you before you are ready to leave. If done right you might even be able to evac some of the units or keep fragments safe to later rebuild.� All in all gutsy, but very risky along the lines of Market garden, if you pull it off it could have a significant impact. If however your assumptions are wrong it could just result in the deaths of 30,000 digital GIs and the loss of some prized APs and or AKs.

Canoerebel -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/9/2009 11:29:41 PM)
Huh? I just saw mention of a plan to hit the Volcano Islands or possibly Sikhalin Island. I scanned through the AAR trying to find the date - I didn't find it but I got the impression it's 1942. If so, such a raid would only be effective against a rookie opponent. Any experience Jap player would merely chuckle, recognize it for what it is, and squash it at his leisure. I've taken that very route before in WitP - invading Tori Shima and Chichi and Iwo Jima folloed by a massive invaison of Hokkaido/Siklahin Island (in late 1943). I was desperate and I succeeded despite massive losses. I succeeded just barely and, as already noted, it was late 1943 and I had alot of firepower to work with. So, IMHO those are viable targets, but not in 1942.

seydlitz_slith -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 12:15:45 AM)
In a prior witp stock game as Allies, I invaded and captured Hakodate in early April 1942 against a raging opponent. I planned for the invaision for three months. I brought everything that I needed, fought my way in, set up shop, fought the arriving forces, and held on to the northern island. It really angered my opponent when I began bombing Japan a few days after landing. My losses were heavy, but mostly transports on the way out. At first my opponent posted on his side of the AAR that this was crazy and there was no way that I could succeed. Then, after his piecemeal forces scrambled to the region he eventually saw the truth...Even if I took heavy casualties my replacements were already in the pipeline and his losses couldn't be replaced. Even worse, the very assets that he was losing in the fights were the ones that he needed right then to accomplish his mission goals in the southern part of the map. The opponent gave a non-game related reason that he needed to drop the game and quit. I won't name names becuase he is an active player in AE and has an ongoing game now against another opponent. The point being is that you can't say that it is impossible or even suicide. I am neither encouraging nor discouraging Aztez in his choice of strategies. I normally play Japan and I have a good idea of where the weak points are. I merely wanted to point out that there is an option to do something that would force Dave to react and that would have a high satisfaction factor for Aztez. To clarify issues raised by others: Lobaron: Changes were made in AE so that search planes almost NEVER spot targets at ranges greater than 12, even if the plane and search pattern is set for longer than that range. I would also like to point out that Japan doesn't have nearly as many Mavis units as stock during this point of the game so long range detection with an optimized approach path would not be likely until a turn or two before landing. In fact, since Aztez and Dave are playing two day turns, it is highly possible that Aztez could move in and land before Dave even has a chance to react. stldiver: I hear you, but it wouldn't be that easy. First off your troops wouldn't have lengthy prep time for the landing which would increase their losses. Second, in addition to combat units I would bring subs, mines, and every CD unit that I could scrape up (anything on the west coast that is not static). You could most certainly kick me off of the islands, but you would be taking losses on units that you can't afford to lose at that point in the war while America would only lose some units that they normally would have sitting camped out at home on the west coast. Simply the act of you having to move to take the islands mean that you aren't using the units elsewhere. The optimum strike would be just after Dave showed his hand by starting an operation using the KB at Fiji, New Zealand, or in India (especially India). The fleet would be so far away that the U.S. could get in and consolidate their positions.

bklooste -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 12:57:20 AM)
quote: e, the very assets that he was losing in the fights were the ones that he needed right then to accomplish his mission goals in the southern part of the map. The opponent gave a non-game related reason that he needed to drop the game and quit. I won't name names becuase he is an active player in AE and has an ongoing game now against another opponent. The point being is that you can't say that it is impossible or even suicide. I am neither encouraging nor discouraging Aztez in his choice of strategies. I normally play Japan and I have a good idea of where the weak points are. I merely wanted to point out that there is an option to do something that would force Dave to react and that would have a high satisfaction factor for Aztez. To clarify issues raised by others: Should you take Marcus Island after the landings ? It would certainly cut the reinforcement route and make him a bit blind ?

seydlitz_slith -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 2:24:21 AM)
Well, you could take Marcus if you had the extra troops and time. I think that would depend on the enemy's reaction. I look at the Chichi/Haha Jima strategy as a good strong raid that will only last a few months at best. If Japan didn't react strongly then Marcus and Wake would be good follow ons, and them possibly Saipan or Guam. If you took all of those then you would be well ahead of the game by about two years. The best that you could hope for is to roll in there, take the islands, pull your ships out without loss, leaving behind some land combat units, as many CD units as you can find, a seabee unit to build the base and fort as fast as possible, mines in the hex, and some aircraft. You would seed the area around the area with subs for some really good chances for attacks on warships. You plan on losing the LCUs that you send, but in turn you plan on totally disrupting the enemy plans by making him fight on your terms at a place of your choice close to his home. You also plan on causing losses that the enemy can't quickly replace. Do not underestimate the psychological impact that this has on an opponent. If you get more than just an extended raid then you have really got a lot.

Astarix -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 4:32:58 AM)
Seydlitz, If he could pack those Islands with supplies, and Marine fighters as well as the DB's he could really wreak some havoc. Also, Aztez should have some more Banshee equipped DB units that have arrived or are arriving very shortly on the west coast. Unlike the ABDA Banshee's these units have pilots with skill ratings in the 50's and 60's, although there is a limited supply of aircraft for them. Combined with the Marine Dauntless units and Wildcats, he could make this really painful for Dave. Outside of the Yamato's the Japanese ships tend to be a bit more fragile then their American counterparts. A single 1000lb bomb on the flight deck of one of Dave's Carriers is going to put it in the yard for a month or so more often than not. At this point all Aztez needs is to get lucky a couple of times and he can potentially level the playing field. Another potential benefit as Seydlitz has pointed out, is Aztez would be defining the battle for a change and could stage large numbers of subs in the area. Given that this is deep water, the subs will be harder to kill for ASW assets. The longer Range Dutch boats and American S-boats have working torpedoes. Even if Aztez doesn't have the subs immediately available, he can vector them in and try for shots on the KB or other major surface combatants. A couple of AS's at Midway and/or Dutch Harbor could keep even the S-Boats on patrol for a few days in the area. Marcus is the only Island on a direct line to these Islands that has a reasonable chance of detecting any possible invasion force. Dave's carriers were at Fiji just 2 turns ago, they are a minimum of 10 days sailing from these Islands. How many fighters does anyone really suspect Dave has hanging in the Home Islands? Given the losses that even Aztez can see, I doubt he has the Home Defense forces filled out with Zeroes and Oscars. It's an interesting idea. With respect to detection and patrol aircraft. I've seen TF's slip the detection net even with my Patrol aircraft searching sectors as small as 30 degrees with range as short as 8 hexes. Detection is no longer guaranteed by any means, especially if your aircraft are not equipped with Radar. Both my son and the computer keep reminding me of this. In one of my games vs. the computer I had 4 Patrol Squadrons on overlapping patrol zones in the Coral See all fail at finding a Bombardment TF the computer sent to level PM. My search grids were 50 degrees and 10 hexes, 90 degrees and 8 hexes, 30 degrees and 8 hexes and 30 degrees and 12 hexes. All 4 groups were including the same section of Ocean that the TF had to sail through and they all missed it. They also laid waste to a troop convoy that had just arrived with a couple of Aussie Brigades worth of reinforcements and 20k supply for PM. Needless to say I wanted to kill the computer. Anyway, as I said, an interesting idea.

LoBaron -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 11:18:31 AM)
seydlitz thats good information. what i already noticed from my own scenario AI guadalcanal scenario confirms that there have been quite a few changes on the recon/op report side and the way sightings are reported or displayed on the map. my way of thinking is still very much stuck in stock [;)] gonna have to change that. its very true that 2day turns would benefit to such an invasion; what i generally noticed is that with all those new options both, the defense and the offense, have a much richer playfield regarding commands given to units or TF�s covering a bigger timeframe. im just not sure, given the example of 2day turns, if this really benefits the attacker more. from what i noticed until now is that could be only true because the learning curve is steeper when planning the defense which nearly always contains more unkown variables. the more i see from even something as small as guadalcanal i still get the impression this actually could work.

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 1:10:19 PM)
I was busy whole yesterday so I didn't have time to respond. An normal work day plus I was taking care of daughters last night. Ok. I must say that very intresting points and views. If this doesn't show how many options you have and how many diffrent strategies people got than I wonder what does. Absolute appreciate all the fantastic ideas/comments. Yamato_Blitzer: The 1943 will be one hell of an battle and I doubt it will ease up after that either. In the previous game we had it was BOOM all the way to 1946. This is most likely to be even bloodier campaign. China was an intresting part of the game on the witp classic too. I shall give up on it but looking at the situation it is definately not looking good. I will post 2 pics from there on the turn report. It is very diffrent theatre in the AE though. I mostly agree with you on China but I think that the frontal city defense is not good idea. I mean it is if you have level 5 or above forts but not if you don't have it. I will propably be forced to retreat even further in the forthcoming months here but we shall see how battered his forces become before that. I'am trying to use the terrain to my advantage and so far it has done ok. Nothing marvelous though but at least he is paying the price here. I think I should have moved towards Hankow on very early on but that is 110% hindsight so no need dwell on it. That move though propably would have been a good one. Personally I think it wrong move to try and hold out to Chenchow area out in the open. Those stacks will just kill you piece by piece. As said maybe with +5 lvl forts but without them. I'am fighting for Sian with massive force. There are around 3500av points there waiting for him It is tough to say how much av value is already lost but I would estimate +5000av points. It might seem weird that he is committing his forces for such an offensives. Personally I think he doing absolutely correct thing. He doesn't need seize the whole country but do enough that he doens't need to worry about it for years to come. Thanks. I tried the AI route on the beginning but it wasn't as full filling as PBEM. Than just thought what is the better way to learn than from class A japanese opponent. I doubt the AI can give you such an ride that has been ongoing so far. The fun part is that I doubt we have even seen anything yet. loricas: Yeah. What I have read one of main reason for the 1944 offensive was US bomber airfields which japan wanted to close down. You absolutely correct that in AE japan can mount huge offensives quite early on in china. crsutton: Thank you. We are usually exchaging at 1 turn a day. I think it is good thing to have big timezone diffrence here since I usually sleep when he does his moves and vice versa. At the weekends 2 turns are more likely. Depending on the schedules and activities. You are not that far behind in your games. I actually would love to have 2nd PBEM ongoing but it propably too much to handle. Without AAR's yes but with it too time consuming. Allthough I still have promised FDR an rematch so who knows maybe we hit the road on that game too. "You never gamble more then you can afford..." That is an good guideline to any PBEM game. Againts an AI you can take a lot more risks. Definately keep your carriers out of the harms way at the start. I was very unlucky in that department early on. There is a big diffrence whether you have 5 or 3 operational carriers at sea. Even Dave admitted that he is making the most of those losses. The july date you mentioned is good rule but I wouldn't say that this is an absolute situation. I think it good thing to commit carriers if KB becomes tangled up with lba fighters/bombers. That evens the odds significantly. If I had those 5 US carriers I would have moved againts KB when sailing around Pago Pago and Fijis. Unfortunately that wasn't the case. Now I have 3 royal navy carriers about to enter Balboa and with CVL Hermes there too (+20 days off). CV Wasp is +50 days off so within 2 months I have 7 CV's and CVL ready for action. That is an competitive force. The ground combat you mentioned is "odd". Well, it has it's logic but as you also stated those stacked artillery + armoured support really can kill you off. Dave is very good in this game and even he admitted he wasn't as "good" in the classic witp. That is definately odd statement since he most definately was. I actually send few transport convoys from Cape Town to Melbourne. I have done this with constant supply runs. Most of these convoys are entering to Perth though, Another thing is that I have so much transports laying around Oz that It might wise to start resending quite a lot of them to WC. I really don't need them at Oz due the situation currently. seydlitz: That is an very intresting option and an plan! I kind of did this in our earlier campaign on the witp classic. He ventured far down in the south and I just moved straight through the middle and bombed his industry to stoneage. I will see what I have available at the WC for this kind of operation. I don't want to commit my CenPac forces on this though. There are few problems at the moment though. a) At the moment I have +90% of my transports at sea. I have some ships at SF waiting for the US Division that is about to enter. A lot ships are moving towards Hawaji and Christmas Island currently. b) Dave has some Betty squadrons placed on china. I know this since he has conducted offensive operations here. So not all of them are on map edges. There are Betty's near shanghai and northern china too. c) I'am kind of short on the ground combat units. I think we should need to land 200-300 per base in order to force him to react. d) PP. I agree that WC units should be used. I have some 400PP available now since I did change those chinese bombers into SEAC command last turn and cost me few hundred there. They are now at India. I like this style of operations though very much. Out of the box and psychological warfare combined. You mentioned the submarine warfare, Well, even with very few submarines in the area we managed to hit 6 ships near Home Islands now. (At least the combat report states so). The grid formula you posted earlier along with few other ideas really are starting to show. Now all we need is some +50 submarines there and it is an mayhem. Very nice ideas. I know this operation would support the above warfare too due to better detection levels. Damn, I wish I would have been prepping for this operation already. It should have launched few weeks back already. Now, well we shall see whether I can execute it. I think it is something like 70% No and 30% yes due to the above restrictions. Dave is also prepping for an assault againts Darwin. I noticed 2 separate engineering units that had this as an target. There are currently +400av worth troops and not much else in place. India! Hmmm, I don't know but I guess it is time to prepare for the possibility, I can confirm that he has 27 units stacked at Mandalay and propably prepping for Schwebo. Where I have only the low experienced troops of Burma command army. Very much appreciate the views and strategies. offenseman: I like the operational idea too that seydlitz proposed. SuluSea: It seems we agree on those issues. Only thing I disagree is that the leaders don't play role since to me it seems they do. Whether they are worth the actual mount PP spend is an diffrent story. At least the big and most experienced units should have Go In principle I completely agree with you and the comments you made. cfullbright: The Aleutian area has been death on arrival so far. I have send some troops there but really not much. That is the way it stays in many PBEM's due to bad weather factors. I will reinforce this area later if situation warrants this but now I have more important areas to send in the troops. LoBaron: You raise valid concerns. The detection of these possible amphibious TF's is important since I stated there are Betty's in near Shanghai area and few up in the north too. These can easily be deployed into area. Another thing is that I have no intel where the rest of his battleship fleet is sailing. They seem to have vanished. I know where 4 of these are but no idea for the others. You are absolutely correct on intel issue. AE is so diffrent in this part of the game. You can be ambushed if your recon aircrafts don't do their jobs properly. Sardaukar: The maxium of 30 000 troops is solid for any counterstrike. I like the new small islands around Japan itself. Unless Dave is fullhearted kamikaze than he knows that these needs to garrisoned properly or all hell will break loose. Pretty much what happened in our previous encounter. Swenslim: I highly recommend you do! At least leave some long ranged torpedo bombers ready for action. I take the words of caution very seriously. I think crsutton summarized it best earlier. Fishbed: Appreciate the remarks. Those units really should be off the boats in 1 turns time. If taking any longer than these ships are good as gone. I will look into what I can spare from WC since these kind of operations cannot deplete our defenses at Christmas Island and Hawaji regions. Marcus Island is definately in the same bag for anykind of an major assaults. However with an decoy offensives it doesn't make much of an diffrence. I think one option would to just do an "feint" move in the north. Let him spot large number of ships and thus make him think what is ongoing or happening. skrewball: Yes. The morale boosting is vital too. I will check for the available troops at WC. I think there are some. The main problem is going to be transports though since bulk of them are at sea. I will board an flotilla and send it though with remain on station command. I wish I had things prepared for this already. Now it might take too long to do this due to logistical issues. We shall see whether we have troops + ships available for this since I like to shaken things up a bit. I mean once the Pago Pago area is cleared. Than his carriers will move out for sure and it is anyones guess where they are headed. Likely to Truk. The carrier raiding business is also something I'am looking for. I'am just waiting for those royal navy ones and thus see what we could accomplish with them. These kind of raids should calculated carefully. The fighter pools can me that those carriers become unoperational. "It would have arrived eventually..." ...I like the analysis. I will look into raiding his shipping lanes or some resource centers once the carriers are combined. I shall not tip him though that royal navy has entered the pacific too. That is an intel I want to keep to myself. bklooste: I have no intel what is left there but that is an fair assumption. The problems are now a) troops available b) transpors available. The window for this kind of operation is closing fast. I mean he doesn't need the carriers far down in the south for long unless he is assaulting NZ which I doubt he will. When Samoa offensive is completed than it is only Suva that will standout which I btw decieded not to evacuate. Let him come since I have coastal artillery and infantry there along with decent CAP. He needs to fight it if he wants it. Rob: I know these ships are very valuable now. Unfortunately I don't have any CVE's in the current date, The first ones are coming later on this year. The Fiji region shall not be evacuated. If he wants it than he can come and get it. I might lose +400av of troops but it will require an large scale invasion on his part. After thinking this through it seem the best thing to do. I have 2/3 US division plus some brigades along with artillery garrisoning the base. The Kuriles! That would kind of do the same what Bonin region does. Allthough the diffrence might be that he doesn't need KB here. Those small bases definately are nice for Patrol aircrafts! Another option to look at. Currently the Aleutians are total sideshow on the main thrusts and theatres. rattolavante: The reasoning is very solid behind seydlitz plan. It would serve multiple purposes to do so. The only thing that that logistics needs to be checked out. Another thing is the window of an opportunity. The KB is soon "finished" at Samoa Islands. I think the feint operation might be another way to go. It really doesn't even matter which ships are used since recon is not accurate. The key thing would be to let him spot these ships and than run out like rabbits. I have 3 US CV's. 6 Battleships, few CA/CL ships. I lost 2 carriers and 6 battleships on the initial raid on Pearl Harbour. The CA situation is not good at the moment either and quite a few are repairing on west coast harbours. Those numbers are on the top off my head since I cannot confirm these from the turn. btw, nice AAR you got ongoing. stldiver: Thank you and welcome! That is obvious risk and one likely outcome of such operations. I see your point on this since without an aircover he just rams his troops shore and starts his assauts. That is why I personally think that we need 200-300av per base or it will be squashed immediately. The landing should take nomore than 1 turn and next turn the base needs to be seized. To be honest I'am not sure allied side has that kind of an firepower laying around. I will doublecheck this when the next turn arrives. The feint "empty" ship trick might serve the same purpose. jrlans: Yeah, gutsy is the correct term. I can confirm that no intel is provided on these bases so far. There are some transports though moving through these areas since submarines are spotting few. It really spoils down to whether there are troops and ships available to spare. I have transports already at sea but these guys are heading for Christmas Island and Hawaji in order to secure them for good. Canoerebel: Welcome. I have read quite a few of your AAR "books" on the past years. The current game date is mid April 1942 so we are still on the early stages of this war and best action is yet to come. My opponents skill and foresight is sometimes unbelievable. Only time I have caught him off guard was in in our previous game when I landed at wake island... he got too cocky and slammed him there. I guess I was expecting me to gather breather but I Immediately went towards Iwo Jima and Bonin's. Those were absolutely horrific naval/land/air battles but in the end I got these bases. Our game ended in spring of 1946 and I had started the operation olympic and gotten the foothold in japanese mainland. The words of caution is duly registered here. Astarix: The luck.. oh, that is what I have been waiting for. Almost got lucky againts those battleships at luzon, almost got lucky hits on his carriers... the key word here has been "almost". I like those benefits that many of you pointed out. The S-boat submarines could be quite painful to him. Currently I'am building up harbour at Midway which is almost to level 2 and I already have AS ship docked there. Never actually thought about Dutch Harbour too much but I will look into this since I got couple of them to spare. No intel on the aircrafts based on home islands. I only know that there has to be 2 separate Betty squadrons placed in china. The carriers are still in the southern pacific area but not for long though. He is wrapping up his campaign here. I have had similar warm feeling towards the computer when watching those TF's slip by and show up next turn unloading troops. Very frustrating but I really like it since that is the way it is supposed to be, Appreciated the feedback guys!

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 1:13:58 PM)
China (april 14th and 15th 1942) The japanese army is preparing for the battle of Sian. I did place AVG there with its new equipment. I did not fair too well againts Oscars since I lost 6 P40E's and got 1 Oscar downed in return, That is not the ratio I want to see. Dave moved three units into the same hex that has those battered chinese units moving slowly towards Sian. I actually expect to see these infantry men completely wiped out soon. At least they have fought a lot battles all over the northern china. Otherwise those japanese tanks still rage through in north. I think he has 6 units there roaming around. In southern china the enemy pushing towards Changhsa area. There are enemy movement near Kukong and Nanning. [image]local://upfiles/15617/1682A4F51BF0486FAA440DD9B80E4065.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 1:14:54 PM)
central & souhern china! [image]local://upfiles/15617/594811EE923843BD9084672F1A25DF26.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 1:15:58 PM)
Java (april 14th and 15th 1942) The citizens of Batavia got an early morning wake up call when the sirens informed that japanese army has entered the city. There are at least the Imperial Guars division in the stack. It has 8 units in total and more seem to be enroute. The isolation of Soerabaja is almost complete too. Dave is conducting an submarine invasion 40 miles south of Soerabaja. I did withdraw few more depleted ABDA bombers and some are now set on 80% ASW with 100 feet as the alltitude. Hopefully we could hit those subs unloading near Soerabaja. It is time to see how long Batavia can actually withstand. It actually has better forts and defending units so fingers crossed. [image]local://upfiles/15617/13C37EBB81B848DB9201FDF9FDA101BC.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 1:17:00 PM)
Samoa Islands (april 14th and 15th 1942) I think the disappearance of KB was down to the poor recon missions. The carriers are still here mopping up and prepared to intervene anykind of an allied naval intervention. There were no carrier based bombing runs if you take 20 Val bombing mission conducted at night. I guess he training his crews for fun, Other squadrons are most definately on escort and naval strike orders. The land battle at Pago Pago started and those US units faired quite well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Pago Pago (148,161) Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 45706 troops, 295 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 1492 Defending force 19254 troops, 279 guns, 291 vehicles, Assault Value = 377 Japanese adjusted assault: 249 Allied adjusted defense: 415 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3) Combat modifiers Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), experience(-) Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-) Japanese ground losses: 3499 casualties reported Squads: 22 destroyed, 212 disabled Non Combat: 30 destroyed, 92 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Allied ground losses: 2685 casualties reported Squads: 31 destroyed, 92 disabled Non Combat: 38 destroyed, 159 disabled Engineers: 3 destroyed, 32 disabled Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled) Vehicles lost 38 (6 destroyed, 32 disabled) Assaulting units: 2nd Indpt SNLF Coy 4th Division 42nd Naval Guard Unit 43rd Naval Guard Unit 47th Naval Guard Unit 44th Naval Guard Unit 83rd Naval Guard Unit 48th Naval Guard Unit 144th Infantry Regiment 52nd Naval Guard Unit 67th Naval Guard Unit 41st Naval Guard Unit 46th Naval Guard Unit 65th Brigade 62nd Naval Guard Unit Maizuru 1st SNLF /1 Defending units: Samoan Marine Battalion 132nd Infantry Regiment 182nd Infantry Regiment 1st/102nd Infantry Battalion 30th Aviation Base Force 2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion 811th Engineer Aviation Battalion 104th USN Base Force 428th Coast AA Battalion 2nd Marine Defense Battalion 110th USA Base Force 46th Construction Regiment 8th Marine Defense Battalion 43rd Const Rgt /3 That is not bad an by looking at the stack 4th division got its share. I guess the highest casualties will always go to the units at top. We ready and waiting for the next assault. He might rest his troops a bit though before next phase. [image]local://upfiles/15617/A96AAAEBE9DC4D449112694B36F9FF36.jpg[/image]

Astarix -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 3:30:58 PM)
Aztez, quote: The luck.. oh, that is what I have been waiting for. Almost got lucky againts those battleships at luzon, almost got lucky hits on his carriers... the key word here has been "almost". Yeah, I know about "luck". The point of this is that all it takes is once. Sooner or later some sub skipper or fly boy is going to deliver a present to one of his carriers. Anyway, I bet the close calls you have had so far, have caused some very tense moments for Dave. With respect to the Chinese bombers, did you consider switching them to "Chinese Air Task Force" HQ? Or did you have to switch them to SEA as part of your house rules,before you could move them to India? The Chinese Air Task Force is an unrestricted command HQ. If I were you I would HOPE that Dave makes an effort at India. Talk about a Tar Baby. The time to attack India has come and gone already for Dave, you have some major reinforcements for SEA that should be starting to arrive at this point. In China, I see he is still using NCPC, RGT and Mongolian Army Cavalry units in his offensives. IMO he is making a massive mistake here. The replacement rates on these units is 1 squad per month. Most of these units have training in the 15 range and they start with similar morale values. A typical NCPC Division has an AV of 50-120. A Mongolian Army Cavalry div has an AV of 25. Any of these units that have been in failed combats are effectively destroyed from the perspective of combat efficacy for the rest of the game. These are Garrison Troops pure and simple and he should be using them for just that purpose. It may not seem like it right now, but this is going to cost him long term. From looking at the map around Sian, it looks like you might have some chances to cut some of his supply lines. You might want to look at this pretty closely. Are you consistently prepping you troops for the areas they will be fighting? One of the common results I have been noticing is that preparation is consistently a - modifier in a lot of your combat results. I know in some cases its unavoidable when units are forced to retreat, as in Burma, but it still helps to immediately reset the prep. Keep up the good fight.

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 4:16:49 PM)
Astarix: The luck factor is always there no matter what people say. A few lucky shots can alter the battles and strategies. Dave actually got lucky with an submarine attack that sunk the damaged US carrier early on in the war. If this had not happened that ship should be operational already or at least very soon. I switched them into SEAC command alltogether. I have no plans on bringing them back anytime soon due to poor quality and replacements shortage. Another thing was that I honour our houserules. To be honest I didn't notice that unrestricted command. I'am planning to shuffling some fighters out too so they could upgrade and train properly. I will be using that HQ in next time around. Thanks. True. There seems to be quite a few infantry and supporting units arriving lately. Those units are already unloaded at Karachi and heading towards frontlines. It will be tough going if he chooses to come here. Eventhough I might be remote chance than it is better to be prepared here. I think the burmese front is about to collapse very soon so I'am thinking of actually retreating towards Myithkina. Another of these 50/50 decisions you get playing this game. Very intresting fact. That replacement rate is absolutely minimal. I have seen many of these units in action and now when I see them well they are targets from now on. I wonder he sees these as "probing units" which suffer horrific losses but soften up my frontline units for those experienced key divisions. That is the only sensible explanation. You mean moving units to his rear? I have been thinking about this but I think he has 2-5 units always on the rear and I have no intel on his strenghts on Chenchow and Nanyang. Hmmm, absolutely an idea that might be worth the effort even if It results to nothing. These troops could move from Ankang area. His supply line does become even weaker once he enters Sian and I do not think he can push me out with few assaults here. At least I hope not eventhough the supply situation is absolutely horrific here. Yes, I'am prepping units to their targets.In example, most of the defenders have 100 prep points for Sian. I do this all around the map. You might forgot few units but at least 98% of them prepped. That actually leads to another issue that is the first offensive missions. I need start soon looking where to hit and what units to use. The preparations take time. I will wait couple of weeks to see what he is up to and than start decieding on places to strike in autumn of 1942. I will post some general ideas here soon with maps naturally. There needs to be few variants since you never can be certain what next few months bring on.

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 4:18:34 PM)
West Coast I looked at the last turn and we have some 420PP available so basically we could immediately free up an smaller infantry unit and base force for operations near home islands. These are not in transport ready harbours yet but that might not be an bad thing either since I have very few transports docked at wc. Having said that there are some xAK's and xAP's coming from Panama and Aleutians. These are maybe 15 days off from wc. Add the loading time and movement rates I think those landings near his bases could be done maybe around 1 1/2 months time which means Pago Pago is gone but he might be tied up at Fijis. I will send some supplies there when the turn arrives so it will not starve out even if it is blockaded for months. Here are couple pics from the wc units available... keep in mind PP needs to be spent. I think might have too few PP available at the moment. The force needs to be strong enough to last mediocre invasions or the effort was for nothing. As said will look into this when the actual turn arrives. [image]local://upfiles/15617/E42C8BFEF348491DA82324F2F7C30926.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 4:19:15 PM)
...west coast units part 2 [image]local://upfiles/15617/90068D92137D4EE18E8DAFC5241EF467.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 4:27:47 PM)
China (april 16th and 17th 1942) The enemy forces assaulted our troops near Nanning in the southern china. This time however we hold our own. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 73,55 Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 8996 troops, 72 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 259 Defending force 6405 troops, 45 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 203 Japanese adjusted assault: 135 Allied adjusted defense: 69 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), fatigue(-), experience(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 592 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 33 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 35 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Allied ground losses: 179 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 73,55 Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 8540 troops, 72 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 234 Defending force 6211 troops, 45 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 182 Japanese adjusted assault: 72 Allied adjusted defense: 83 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), experience(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 518 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 26 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 29 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Allied ground losses: 225 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled The advance of 21st Ind.Mixed brigade and 4th Ind.Mixed regiment was stopped. Not bad results at all here. A small scale battle but we disabled +50 infantry squads here. I take this as an small victory. I might move few more troops here and disable these two units alltogether. As expected Dave launched an offensive againts those encircled units near Sian. This goes to show that it might be better to leave units trapped rather than try to open blockades. I base this assumption to the fact that if forced to retreat than those casualties are horrible. This doesn't happen if your troops are unable to move out. I know it sounds weird but it seems that is how the game mechanics calculates these results. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 85,42 Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 23964 troops, 150 guns, 213 vehicles, Assault Value = 773 Defending force 43925 troops, 262 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 711 Japanese adjusted assault: 273 Allied adjusted defense: 931 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 3 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), fatigue(-), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 642 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 40 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 35 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled Vehicles lost 14 (0 destroyed, 14 disabled) Allied ground losses: 1147 casualties reported Squads: 24 destroyed, 26 disabled Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 73 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled) Assaulting units: 12th Tank Regiment 15th Division 13th Ind.Mixed Brigade Defending units: 47th Chinese Corps 16th Chinese Corps 9th Chinese Corps 61st Chinese Corps 93rd Chinese Corps 27th Chinese Corps 96th Chinese Corps 36th Chinese Corps 38th Chinese Corps 80th Chinese Corps 90th Chinese/C Corps 14th Group Army 1st War Area 4th Chinese Base Force 36th Group Army Jingcha War Area 8th Group Army 10th Chinese Base Force The AVG was also heavily in action and did a bit better againts those Oscars and bombers. Yet we still lost more than we downed which is not acceptable in this battle area. [image]local://upfiles/15617/A40E5825755048888A05490813CFBA84.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 4:28:43 PM)
Samoa Islands (april 16th and 17th 1942) The siege continues here and KB became alive this turn. I guess the initial ground assault was not satisfactory to Dave. KB launched two separate Val strikes againts Pago Pago. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on Pago Pago , at 148,161 Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 15 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 8 D3A1 Val x 112 Japanese aircraft losses D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 30 damaged Allied ground losses: 8 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Airbase hits 2 Runway hits 19 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Pago Pago , at 148,161 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 28,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 21 D3A1 Val x 103 Japanese aircraft losses D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed, 46 damaged Allied ground losses: 41 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Airbase hits 3 Runway hits 14 The damage done was minor at best. It seems we got 2 confirmed Val kills but total of 76 of them were damaged. I know there is an FOW in play here but I wonder what the actual losses were since he must have some op losses on such high numbers reported. [image]local://upfiles/15617/90ED56474B9E408482AD09ED5F0B0831.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 4:29:27 PM)
Java (april 16th and 17th 1942) The april 16th was the first enemy bombardment assault made againts Batavia. It seems he did not bring in adequate number of troops in� the 1st wave. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Batavia (49,98) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 23773 troops, 352 guns, 149 vehicles, Assault Value = 1326 Defending force 29957 troops, 303 guns, 186 vehicles, Assault Value = 751 Japanese ground losses: �� 14 casualties reported �� Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled �� Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled �� Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Allied ground losses: �� 427 casualties reported �� Squads: 5 destroyed, 6 disabled �� Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 26 disabled �� Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled �� Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) �� Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Assaulting units: �� Imperial Guards Division �� 113th Infantry Regiment �� 3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment �� 5th Engineer Regiment �� 21st Division �� 21st Infantry Regiment �� 56th Engineer Regiment �� Sasebo 8th SNLF �� 1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment �� 5th Mortar Battalion �� 3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment �� 1st RF Gun Battalion �� 56th Field Artillery Regiment �� 2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion �� 8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment �� 14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion Defending units: �� 2nd KNIL Regiment �� Roodenburg Battalion �� Batavia Coastal Gun Battalion �� 1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion �� 4th KNIL Landstorm Battalion �� Mobiele Eenheid Battalion �� 1st KNIL Regiment �� Lijfwacht Cav Sqn �� 4th KNIL Regiment �� 1st Regt Cavalerie �� Padang Garrison Battalion �� 3rd KNIL AA Battalion �� Merak Base Force �� ABDA �� KNIL Army Command �� 1st KNIL AA Battalion �� 1 ML-KNIL Aviation �� ML-KNIL �� Batavia Base Force �� Bandoeng Base Force I don't think that is enough to dislodge me from level 4 forts here. The intel about Imperial Guards division was at least confirmed. I guess can expect the 1st shock assault and massive lba bombings in the forthcoming turn. [image]local://upfiles/15617/BED95337E3134CD5B2C82BC27F536A58.jpg[/image]

LoBaron -> RE: Japanese advance in china and land at Pago Pago... (10/10/2009 10:50:43 PM)
aztez just one question about the AVG performance: not sure but do you use it on CAP/LRCAP only? just wondering cause the oscars got a better ceiling and hey got more fighters to play with anyway. also it does not seem that he has a sufficient bomber force in the Sian area to really do some damage to ground troops. how about using the P40�s on sweeps or strafing runs? at least there you could choose the point of attack and dont get jumped by a 35k oscar kite. nice to see Pago still holding btw. [:)]

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