RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (Full Version)

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jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/9/2010 5:12:06 AM)

17-18 August 1942

Burma

Gurkas and armor stormed across the Salween this turn in the face of our massively ineffective though unopposed Nells and Sallys. We have some reinforcements on the way to support our out numbered recon battalion. The side show has indeed become the main show!

Banda Sea
Allies continue unloading at Aru Island. B-17s and B-24s continue pounding Ambon though now we've reinforced with Rufes AND Zeros. We will bring in some engineers to help out with the repairs.

China
Our Sallys and Anns hit Kanhsien this turn leaving 41 points of runway damage showing at the end of the turn. We've probably driven out the AVG squadron that has been basing here. We have a moderate sized Army of 4 divisions plus recon, artillery and engineers on the way to try to take the place. Not sure it will be enough.




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/10/2010 4:45:01 AM)

19-20 August 1942

Banda Sea

No big change - the B-17s continue to pound Ambon and the Allies continue to unload at Aru Island.





jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/13/2010 3:46:02 AM)

21-22 August 1942

Burma

Gurka's push back our recon battalion in the jungle - supported by lots of bombers, including B-17s. The main front is quiet. This "sideshow" activity is actually looking like it is substantially in our interest. There is no base anywhere near the sideshow activity - it is in deep jungle and should be difficult to supply as the Allied supply trail gets longer.

Banda Sea
Allies continue to unload and build up (roughly one airbase level per turn) at Aru Island. And B-17s continue to rumble non-stop over Ambon.





jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/13/2010 3:56:38 PM)

23-24 August 1942

Banda Sea

Allies are rushing forward - we are now double occupying one of the many dots neara Aru Island - but we look to be able to capture a few more. Allies seem to be focusing more on the NW New Guinea side.

Nick, ran a carrier group down around Biak and launched a strike that put a few hits on the Warspite.

Production
I had accelerated Musashi a few weeks ago and ran our Naval Point surplus down fro 4,500 to about 1,000 - so I'll have to shift the construction back to normal. I shifted Rhuyo to accelerated mode instead.

We should be set to put at least six Tojo Chutai in the field by the end of September, but I suspect it is too little too late. With P-38s in both Burma and Aru Island sectors already.





jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/14/2010 4:12:02 AM)

25-26 August 1942

Banda Sea

Well the po'ole dumb Japanese almost got a "victory" [;)] in the air war this turn - the numbers says we got six B-17s and seven P-38s - probably the greatest victory we will EVERY get in the air in one turn!

Nik, is helping me in the Banda Sea - he parked some carriers off Biak this turn and took a pile of Allied sweeping fighters (well technically I guess they were escorting 3-4 SBDs). If nothing else, Nick is attracking attention of the new Aru Island Allied Aerial Army.

In the mean time my "Fleete" has rolled in to Ambon and are providing some Zero reinforcement to our CAP over the air field. The B-17s continue to roll in however.

China
The Allies like to "sweep" our "Leaky CAP" so we tried that trick this turn and got some 2nd Line Allied fighters SE of Changsha.

Burma
Allies pounding our garrison (143rd Regiment) at Ramree Island - 100s of bomber sorties rolling in - we're hunkering down in our holes.

Production
Naval Points dropped to 850 that turn, so we stopped another pile of submarines - maybe that was the problem all along - we'll see if the Naval Point drop levels off next turn.






jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/14/2010 6:51:57 PM)

25-26 August 1942

Banda Sea
Here is a screen shot.

Our main base in the area is Kendari - supplies are feed to Kendari from Balikpapan and Fuel from Soerabaja. We have a level-5 port, a large naval HQ, an AKE, an AS and an AD, so hopefully we are in decent shape from a rearming perspective.

Over the past several weeks we've managed to (barely) gain some measure of air space control over Timor and unescorted Allied bomber raids by non-B17s would appear to be too expensive to our opponents. We are now (slowly) moving in more units and supplies to the greater Timor area.

On Ceram, we have three bases as you can see. Boela is a level-2 airfield and has been involved in two attacks on the Allied shipping off Aru Island. Amboina is under sustained unescorted B-17 attack and has two Rufe Chutai and one Oscar Chutai on the level-4 air field. A Zero Chutai is based one hex to the HW at Namlea but for some reason has only enagaged the B-17s once. Recently we moved in our Western Fleet into the Amboina hex. This fleet contains our escort carriers Unyo and Taiyo each containing one Chutai of A6M5. Taiyo also has aboard one Chutai of Mabel and Unyo one Chutai of Val. Ise and Hyuga provide the Capital Ship component, six heavy cruisers and 15 Destroyers complete the 25 ship TF with Admiral Nagumo in command.

We have a DESRON operating in the area with one CL and seven DD. These ships are primarily acting as Fast Transport, moving supplies and small units around. Several small amphibous TFs move larger units around and greater amounts of supply. Currently a medium sized tanker force is unloading at Amboina. Fortunately the Allies are ignoring this force as it has been unloading for over two weeks now as the B-17s keep flying over head.

You can see Nik's carriers in the "Biak Bight" providing welcome distraction to the recently installed Allied Aerial Armada at Aru Island - just under the word on the map spelled "Dobo".

We still hope to occupy the yellow dots if only to enable awareness of when the Allies arrive at these places.

The main Allied base at Darwin just off the SW edge of the map is the B-17 base and Merauke to the SE houses the B-24s.



[image]local://upfiles/7611/8F0F75B598DE4428BA303D94E5DB8E56.jpg[/image]




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/14/2010 8:27:31 PM)

25-26 August 1942

China

We are re-orienting our slim offensive troop margin for operations in Southern China. The immediate targets are the two bases circled in Yellow. I doubt we can hide our intentions - so the risk will be that major forces from Changsha will shift South - though we still retain strong forces around Hankow and so we can at least threaten Changsha with Westward movements in this event.

Amoy will be our short term primary base of operations, with Hong Kong and Canton also comming in to play. We have about four Sentai of bombers (Sally, Lily and Ann) and about 8 Chutai of Oscars as well as about 4 Chutai of Babs. The planes are scattered around the area.



[image]local://upfiles/7611/9A52A428BD284E249FA3A184B070AB2E.jpg[/image]




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/14/2010 8:34:04 PM)

25-26 August 1942

Burma

We need to start referring to this theater as "Thailand" as we only have a tiny toe-hold remaining in "Burma" proper. In previous WITP games, I was never in this situation until very late 1943 - so we are 15-18 months ahead of my WITP experience in this game!

Our primary base of operations is Bangkok. We have three Divisions at Rangoon, Pegu and the hex just East of Pegu - that is the current "main line of resistance". Another division is heading to (map) NE Thailand and the 33rd Division is in reserve at Bangkok.

Currently we are not sure how quickly the Allies can push us back - they seem to be focused on two peripheral activities right now - eliminating our forces on Ramree Island and the jungle campaign along the NW (map NE) Thai-Burma border. Both of these "diversions" are buying us badly needed time to build up our fortifications and finish getting the factories ready to build Tojos.


[image]local://upfiles/7611/1179A51F7B654042A7864CB73C652E40.jpg[/image]




Nemo121 -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/14/2010 9:31:59 PM)

Would it be possible to trouble you for a map of the various theatres with a front-line trace outlinging your remaining outposts and the line of bases you intend to fight to the death for? It might help visualise just what your situation and plans are....

While you are consolidating is any consideration being given to IJN raids? From my experience in my PBEM against 1EyedJacks unobserved raiding deep into enemy territory has actually been made significantly easier in AE due to changes to the way naval search works. FWIW I think this is realistic and find it a very enjoyable change to gameplay.




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/20/2010 4:55:39 PM)

Well here is the easy "front line trace" answer.



[image]local://upfiles/7611/F13CC55B64914CB4AC04573ED31B005C.jpg[/image]




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/20/2010 5:25:58 PM)

As to the "die line" - I'm not sure there is one.

Our mission is to delay as much as possible. This means keep the Allies away from the means of production and the raw materials necessary for same as long as we can. Also, to keep the defense viable for as long as possible - we will have to balance loss of distance (between the Allies and the critical bases) and loss of material (ships, planes, land units).

In the West our "lines" run roughly along the Thai-Burma border. One major Allied axis of advance is in Burma - though they seem to be moving slowly right now - probably redeploying their airbases forward from India into Burma before making the next lunge. - we still hold Andaman and we are trying to take the last Allied base on Sumatra at Sabang. We hold Malaya and Java except for a few "dot" islands. Bornea, Celebes, Spice Islands are also all ours except for a couple of dots.

The line in the Banda Sea is dynamic as this is one axis of advance the Allies are currently pursuing. We hold Timor and Ceram and the Western tip of New Guinea as well as a few other islands in the area.

New Guinea, the Bismarcks, the Solomons are really Allied at this point, though we do still hold a few out posts.

The Marshalls and Gilberts are still outposts - though they are essentially evacuated.

The Carolines will not be built up - though I'm not sure what Nik's plans for Chuuk are.

Nik is building up in the Palaus and Marianas. I don't think this is a "die" line - but we will try to delay a bit here.

We are heavily building up in the Kuriles - again - I don't think any place is a die line - but the closer the base is to the means of production the harder we will fight to deny it.

From a naval deployment perspective - I (the IJA player) have a "Western Fleet" with 2 escort carriers, 2 OBBs, 6 CA and assorted CL and DD. Nik currently has KB divided into two halves, with half near the Home Islands and half in the Palau's. Thus he is essentially defending both ends of his "line".

In the air - we have been unable to contest the skies when faced by unescorted B-17s/B-24s unless we mass high firepower fighters. I have a total of seven Zero Chutai and 3 Rufe Chutai and I also have 1 Nick Chutai. This enables me to augment the defense of a few bases - but leaves the majority of bases open to attack by unescorted bombers.

In the past weeks we have seen more and more P-38s reaching the front. They are now essentially Ubiquitous - present in numbers in the Solomons, Eastern New Guinea, Western New Guinea, the Banda Sea and Burma.

We just produced (31 Aug - 1 Sept) three of our new Tojos. It remains to be seen whether these planes will be able to improve the defense of our bases versus unescorted 4EB. We will be able to deploy about 6 Chutai by Early October.





jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/20/2010 5:30:33 PM)

31 Aug - 01 Sep 1942

Burma

Our forces on Ramree Island are reaching the end of their rope. Maybe one more turn of survival. The Allies have focused a lot of attention on them and caused delays which have given us time to set up our defense along the Thai border.

China
The Chinese are railing more forces to the South - so our new "attack" may end before it begins. Our forces are still approaching the area.

Banda Sea
We're trying to put up our best "smoke and mirrors" defense - moving a regiment to Balo - supporting a naval battalion on a dot to the South - and supporting Western New Guina by a sortie of the "Western Fleete" (Taiyo, Unyo, Ise, Hyuga + ).

Production
We produced our first three Tojo's this turn - but we see P-38s all over the front now. I expect the bulk of the initial groups of Tojos will be used to shore up the defense of bases against unescorted 4EB - if this is possible.





Mynok -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/20/2010 5:35:58 PM)


Are you planning to put up an airbase at Luangprabang? I have found it very useful in defending the area once the tide turns.




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/20/2010 5:42:47 PM)

All possible bases will be built up some. Personally I prefer to build up "tight clusters" of smaller bases which can be mutually supporting - verus large isloated bases which are easy to knock out. But I would expect to build up everything I can to at least level-2 to allow full flexibility of mission types. Level-4 forts is perhaps the priority however.





Nikademus -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/22/2010 3:33:01 PM)

+ with so many B-17 capable bases to choose from....any one base built up can be bypassed easily.




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/23/2010 4:49:24 AM)

02-03 September 1942

Banda Sea

20 IR completely unloaded at Bado - this means we can ensure that Sorong will not fall immediately - this buys us a buffer zone. Ambon airfield as recovered to to repair the service capability.
Aru Island is up to level-4 we would expect the B-17s aerial assault to resume from their shortly.

Production
We're up to 8 Tojos in the pool now [:D].





jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/24/2010 7:11:35 AM)

04-05 September 1942

Production

13 Tojos in the pool now :)

Burma
Ramree Island falls - the 143rd IR remnants will now rebuild aboard Andaman. With Ramree fallen we would now expect the main offensive against Rangoon and Moulmein to begin. We have a defensive line built up - but we doubt it can hold against a full attack by B-17/P-38 supported troops.

China
Two divisions will now advance into Kanshien (Southern China).






jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/28/2010 7:38:44 PM)

07-08 September 1942

Banda Sea

Allies now have level-5 airbase at Aru Island - so we shortly expect B-17s to start pasting the next target area. Our right is stronger than our left - and farther away from enemy strength - so we expect the next enemy move to be toward NW tip of NNew Guinea with Sorong area as intermediate target - then either jump towards PI or West towards Kendari.



[image]local://upfiles/7611/E4C2FBCA516643DB8524C3F240FE5490.jpg[/image]




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/28/2010 7:45:09 PM)

07-08 September 1942

Burma

Big day in the air for the Allies - lots of fighters and B-17s hitting vic Rangoon. Losses were about even - but Allies can afford to throw away pilots we cannot.



[image]local://upfiles/7611/1F7C07A4AD5940CFB02C9BA7D4479716.jpg[/image]




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/28/2010 7:47:45 PM)

07-08 September 1942

China

Elements of 11 and 13 Army are preparing to attack Kanshein.



[image]local://upfiles/7611/13900ACE7D99497C81C741B8FCFCB5A3.jpg[/image]




castor troy -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/29/2010 7:48:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

07-08 September 1942

Burma

Big day in the air for the Allies - lots of fighters and B-17s hitting vic Rangoon. Losses were about even - but Allies can afford to throw away pilots we cannot.





IMO, if the Allied player is doing on map training then he will drown in USAAF fighter pilots with air skill 70. But what he wonīt have are the fighters, or better say, fighters worth deploying. Iīm amazed that your opponents have P-38 all around the map, my PBEM is in the same timescale and all Iīve got are two squadrons. My first P-38 vs Tojo encounter was a Lightning sweep of 2x25 vs the same number of Tojos (and some useless Oscars). Result was losing 16 P-38 for 2 Tojos shot down. My sweep, my two best USAAF squadrons on the map. Lost a monthly replacement in one day for no gain. Picked off some leaking Cap in one of the last turns, resulting in 1:1 vs the same Tojos and a 4:0 vs some Oscars. Looks like the P-38 doesnīt have to fear fighters like the Oscar or the Zero but for sure the Tojo is a beast. The only luck for the Allied is the fact that the IJNAF will have to wait a looong time to get a comparable fighter.

One small hope for the Allied seems to go online in 9/42, the P-40K. The first fighter produced in numbers and when looking at the stats, comparable to the Tojo. Looking at the stats, the P-38 should be superior to the Tojo but only performs disappointing at times. The Oscar and the Zero have lost their superiority in my game, but the Tojo took it over.




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/31/2010 3:43:41 AM)

Well one difference between our experiences will be that my game was started with build 1080 (hot 1st week after release that fixed irrelevancies in WITP TRacker and the Guadalcanal scenario) - so our plane stats may be different - replacement rates may be difference etc. But that not withstanding, from your descriptions it is usually hard to tell we are playing the same game!

Yes, we're seeing multiple P-38 units in Burma, Darwin, new Britian and over the Aleutians - so maybe 6-8 total units at this point. But we have PDU turned on - so that might be a difference if you don't. I'm sure that explains why we were fighting P-38s in Burma as early as February '42.







jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/31/2010 6:09:00 AM)

09-10 September 1942

Burma

Wow! Despite my having several (air) recon units in the area for the past 8 months - Tony managed to "sneak up on me" with 40 LCU around Rangoon - in one turn! I knew my line (of 4 divisions) wouldn't last long - but looks like it with "evaporate" in 2 turns at this rate!

Banda Sea
Since trying to hurry to get a bit thicker line of "smoke" to go along with my "mirrors" before the P38/B17 steamroller lashes out again.

China
Looks like we might actually be able to take Kanshein - a probe this turn disbled quite a few Chinese squads. One more turn of prep - then we will try again.

Production
After losing about 50 Oscars in the past 2 turns - we will have to turn production back on - too early in the TOJO production run to have accumulated any reserves there. We will have almost 200 Nates for trainers but not enough second line fighters.





castor troy -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/31/2010 8:18:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Well one difference between our experiences will be that my game was started with build 1080 (hot 1st week after release that fixed irrelevancies in WITP TRacker and the Guadalcanal scenario) - so our plane stats may be different - replacement rates may be difference etc. But that not withstanding, from your descriptions it is usually hard to tell we are playing the same game!

Yes, we're seeing multiple P-38 units in Burma, Darwin, new Britian and over the Aleutians - so maybe 6-8 total units at this point. But we have PDU turned on - so that might be a difference if you don't. I'm sure that explains why we were fighting P-38s in Burma as early as February '42.







I know Joe, I seem to have a complete different game in many respects. [:D] P-40E and P-400 just took out 20+ Zeroes on a sweep for no loss. Got PDU on too but I donīt know how or if the replacement rates are different as my PBEM started under patch 2.

Itīs 8/42, Iīve lost some 40 P-38 IIRC, got more or less none in the pool and have equipped two squadrons. Thatīs why I found it amazing that your opponents are "flooding" the map with īem.[;)]




khyberbill -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (3/31/2010 10:53:09 AM)

quote:

I know Joe, I seem to have a complete different game in many respects. P-40E and P-400 just took out 20+ Zeroes on a sweep for no loss. Got PDU on too but I donīt know how or if the replacement rates are different as my PBEM started under patch 2.


Before the first Patch the P-38s in the restricted units in the US could be swapped out for lesser planes thus releasing them for duty elsewhere. This is no longer possible.




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (4/3/2010 4:11:03 PM)

11-12 September 1942

Burma

20 Allied "stealth LCU" are chewing up the 18ID at Rangoon. We will try to pull back to Pegu where another 20 Allied "stealth LCU" await.

Banda Sea
A few Allied "NUC Cruisers" wiped out the AF at Koepang this turn - we assume some "Uber Bombers" will follow if not a multi-divisional landing.

China
We will continue to try to take Kanshien - though we see more enemy forces approaching from the hinterlands so our Southern China offensive may be over soon.

Production
Two Chutai of TOJO have reached the front lines now - but none have seen action yet. We should have about six Chutai at the front by the end of September. We have ramped OSCAR production back up. The Musashi and Ryuho should arrive in about a month to add more targets to Nik's fleete.





Nikademus -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (4/5/2010 5:20:49 PM)

CentPacific

Everything is peachy. [:D]

I'm not retreating...i'm advancing in another direction!

North Pacific

Our delaying force continues to buy us time at Adak.




Nemo121 -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (4/5/2010 6:31:37 PM)

Ah but various workarounds are still possible. In Feb 42 under the latest patch I have about 20 of those bad boys ready to go in the Pacific.... Not a horde by any means but every bit helps.




jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (4/11/2010 3:18:18 PM)

13-16 September 1942

Burma

Big surprise was our stack at Rangoon retreated in the "wrong direction". Instead of retreating towards the open hexside to which they had been withdrawing to a friendly supplied base one hex to the East at Pegu - then troops went in the opposite direction crossed a river and went into a swamp cutting themselves off from supply!

To compound the problem - even though cruisers and destroyers can go up the Yangon River - the game does not allow them to perform the "pick up" mission "up river" - so we will have to walk the misguided troops to the coast to try to evacuate them.

Subsequently the Allied "telephone phone" continued the "rout" and kicked us out of Pegu as well - this 42 unit stack will be pretty much unstoppable and its advance only limited by its ability to move and be supplied.

Timor
A small allied cruiser/destroyer force continues to trash our air bases in the area.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Dili at 71,115

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
CL Mauritius
CL Hobart
DD Arrow
DD Van Galen
DD Isaac Sweers

Japanese ground losses:
42 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Airbase hits 49
Airbase supply hits 31
Runway hits 334
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 2

Not only was the airbase knocked out - but thousands of supply points as well. If this was a "one off" or even a "two off" I would ignore it. Well I did ignore the previous two cases - Andaman and Koepang where small cruiser/destroyer force devastated the airbases - but the third time showed that this is clearly a pattern and that small Allied cruiser/destroyer forces will ALWAYS get hundreds of airbase hits and cause massive supply loss when doing the hit and run night bombardment thing. So we drilled into this - and a key factor in our case seems to be that our game is still using the intial game release values for DP gun accuracy - which in some cases were up to the 200 level. Subsequent patches have pulled these down to like 62 in the case of the US 5"L38. For various reasons our game would be tough to update (it would have to be done manually) so we will have to live with this anomoly in our game.

Both sides have avoided surface actions mostly so far - but the DP gun accuracy thing also has a big effect on surface actions - so our Japanese side will need to remember to avoid surface actions with allied warships as well for this game!

Oh, KB put in an appearance South of Timor and damaged some of the 2 cruisers and 3 destroyers in this bombardment run TF - but that had no impact on the result [:(].

China
The one spot of good news was that we did succeed in capturing Kanshein with a deliberate attack. We will continue on to our next objective Kokung (sp?) but are not optimistic as we've seen reinforcements railing down from Changsha. Our overall objective in South China is to move the Allies farther away from the Coast to retard their ability to air strike our convoys going back and forth to the SRA - though given the monster telephone pole advancing from Burma towards the SRA we don't expect to have this problem for much longer! [:D]





jwilkerson -> RE: Amis vs Aussies - World Domination(no jrcar or Tony) (4/17/2010 6:03:20 PM)

17-20 September 1942

Burma

Not sure what the Allies are waiting for in Burma! We have a double river line for then to step over - but since we are out numbered about 8 to 1 this shouldn't be much more than a minor annoyance for the Allied telephone pole!

China
We've advanced two divisions to Kukok and walked our airborne unit back to Amoy - so we will try an attack this turn to see where we stand in terms of troop balance.

Banda Sea
Not sure what the Allies are waiting for here either - with both cruisers and B-17s they could flatten our tiny little airfields in 1-2 turns and take a few bases!





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