RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB...

RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (Full Version)

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Nemo121 -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/17/2010 7:06:33 PM)
At present I have 10 BBs in the DEI- 6 RN including the Pow And the fast BC which accompanies it as well as 4 USN BBs. 2 of these have 16 inch guns and radar, 2 have 14 inch guns and no radar. That's a potent punch, probably twice as many BBs as he can bring to bear in the DEI. He'll have a lot more CAs than me though but that's life. Warspite was one of the BBs I was keeping in the Pacific to show to his forces and try to lead him to misallocate his forces and keep BBs and CAs in the Pacific. The fact that it is British was another component to that plan as I wanted him to think that I might have evacced the RN to the Pacific to resist his forces there. If he doesn't come for Java soon I'm seriously considering transitioning to the offensive. I have set up Oosthaven as a replenishment base for BBs and could easily free up 2,000 AV to invade Malaysia. I have husbanded about 100 xAPs and xAKs suitable for amphibious landings, could load them at Oosthaven under massive CAP and BB cover and could drop those divisions ( and armoured units ) relatively easily into northern Malaysia. Hell, I've even got a USMC parachute Bn on the way to the DEI on a "just in case" basis. I could land that by flying boat into Malaysia to take an unoccupied base if he has been really sloppy. I think I'll give it another month... By that stage he'll either have landed in Java or he never will and my BBs, DDs etc will all have upgraded to have radar and better AAA plus my Chinese offensive should have drawn off a lot of his reserves from this area. He really should push now, the more he waits the more I begin thinking about transitioning to the offensive. If I could retake Malaysia and create a land link to China supplies will never be a problem in China again and with the Changsha pocket cleared and a clear supply route ( using railways no less ) to the northern Chinese forces ( the communist forces ) I could have the strategic mobility and supply reach to really wreak havoc without having to risk my naval forces. Of course he should try to counter-invade such a position by landing in Vietnam ( French IndoChina ) where he can break it at its neck but even then he'll just be reacting and it'll be a good opportunity to have a fleet action under my own CAP umbrella.

wpurdom -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/20/2010 7:28:50 PM)
quote: To what purpose (asking about garrison being reinforced)? A) None, so long as you're posting the Hankow combat reports like you did last turn. Often you write summaries or only post very limited combat reports. B) I am suspenseful as to the battle for Hankow and concerned you might find it amusing to leave us all hanging for several turns as to whether you were retaining sufficient edge to take the city or not.

Nemo121 -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/20/2010 7:54:53 PM)
Serious question.... What style of reporting do people prefer.... I've movedvaway from full CRs cause usually people say they don't like that but with the focus of my AARs perhaps people do want to see the full scope of CRs. Alternately does anyone want to be on a mailing list for turn files? I'd be quite happy to send them and the password out to anyone interested and field questions back from same.... Lol !!!!! As though I'm a sadist or something :-). Really, moi? ;-) No, any delay now is engendered by the fact that my hard drive has utterly broken and I can't get any data from it - including all work on EA etc. So right now trying to recover some of that data is taking priority. I will say thouigh that Mike seems pretty unhappy with China and is talking about having to bring SRA troops in. The more I look at it the more I think we may just never see an invasion of Palembang... If we don't I think Ill ask mike if we can Alternate History it... Maybe with someone else from the forums in command if he's busy.... I think it would be a ferry interesting thing to play out.

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/20/2010 8:19:08 PM)
quote: No, any delay now is engendered by the fact that my hard drive has utterly broken and I can't get any data from it - including all work on EA etc. So right now trying to recover some of that data is taking priority. And you weren't backed up?[:-] Incidentally, this is why I like to have two hard drives, one of which is formatted with FAT32. It makes emergency boot disks a lot easier. (For Windows 7 and an NTFS drive, it is recommended that you use four (4!!) CD's to create an emergency boot system.) Good luck with the resurrection!

wpurdom -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/20/2010 8:25:24 PM)
I liked the style of reporting you did at the time of the Marshalls invasion - summary with some significant combat extracts. You definitely went through one or two *very* quiet periods. I don't mind the very long extracts you're using with the key phase of the Changsha front, because of the interest in what's happening now, but in general I thought the style used in your first counterattack and its immediate aftermath was quite good. But I have already made my standing request to know about what is happening at Hankow and Sinyang in particular.

Nemo121 -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/21/2010 1:11:53 AM)
Well, sod's law intervened. I have 3 external HDs... 1 x 500 Mb one for audio files, various WW2 documents ( mostly scanned original intelligence bulletins, original newsreels etc )... 1 x 1 Tb HDD for backup purposes and a 2 TB My Book World for media files ( wirelessly synched to my DVD player which allows me to play any media I want from my computer on my TV without having to leave the computer ---- very handy for old documentaries etc --- watched the Battle of San Pietro and "With the Marines at Tarawa" using that setup recently. The problem is the 1 TB HDD for backup became unstable and one of my jobs for last weekend was to transfer the stuff from there to my HDD, fix the 1 Tb external and then transfer it back... It was at a point during this transfer of the backup HD via the original ( not, perhaps the best idea I've ever had, looking back on it ;-) ) that the damned original went down. Since the backup drive was acting up I was also a bit behind in my backing up of work to it... I have everything backed up fully nonetheless except for a week of some research articles, possibly some of the actual research itself --- which I might have to re-enter although I should have it on a USB I gave to a friend to check some of the stats for me () particularly important stuff also gets a USB backup ) - and EA. Basically the only thing which isn't backed up anywhere else is EA... Everything else is either just a week out of date or has a small amount of info missing ( which I can repair ). EA might be a total loss though... On the plus side since I was simplifying a lot of areas in order to focus on the key points of strategy a lot of the changes I have to make are relatively easy to remember. Ship upgrades are going to be a cast iron B*ch to do again though... "very quiet periods" chuckle* Guilty as charged... When discussion dwindles and little happens my care for updating dwindles. It isn't good but it is simply the way I function ( or fail to function depending on viewpoint ) [8D]. I'll start doing a few more longer extracts then as I think a lot of the subtlety only comes out in the CRs...

DTurtle -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/21/2010 1:39:16 AM)
What I like about your posts is that you describe a lot of your thought process, conclusions, suspicions, etc. As for the combat reports: Most of the time I don't look at the individual reports too much (mostly just bigger battles), but I always look for the little notes you put in there - they are invaluable. Just as an example: quote: Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 26 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Allied aircraft A-20A Havoc x 13 Allied aircraft losses A-20A Havoc: 2 damaged Runway hits 5 Just trying to prevent the buildng of forts. This combat would be pretty meaningless in a long list of combats, but because of your explanation of what you are trying to achieve, it is suddenly worth a lot more. So I would just say: continue as before.

Galahad78 -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/21/2010 11:03:26 AM)
Lots of interesting thoughts on the last pages, but I find myself (as usual on this thread, BTW [:D]) overwhelmed with information and stuff. I would like to learn to play WITP:AE (I have a full campaign stalled on its 3rd turn, and have played the smaller scenarios) and would like to learn to play "correctly" from the beginning, to not deal later with acquired bad-habits. So, I try to start with the OODA loop (I was pleased to discover that it was "coined" by Colonel Boyd, "father" also of my favourite combat aircraft, the F-16 Fighting Falcon), but then I get stuck on the Observation phase, as I do not know what I have to observe [&:] (do not know if I explain myself...). Would it be possible for you to explain in detail how would you organize a plan from the very beginning? Limited, of course, but in a way that I could later expand to a bigger map/situation. I don't know if I explain myself, English is not my main language. Of course, feel free to disregard my message if you feel that it does not belong to an AAR but perhaps to another forum. Just posted here as your play style is the more appealing to me [:)]

Nemo121 -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/21/2010 6:38:19 PM)
Galahad, No need to make any apologies for your English. It isn't my first language either. As to whether or not your post belongs here... If it leads to an interesting discussion then, yes, in my opinion, it does belong so feel free to post. I'll make an effort to give my appreciation of the OODA loop in the hope that it is helpful. OODA = Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. Observe = See what's happening, gather information. In AE this is achieved through watching the combat replay, reading the combat report and reading the intelligence reports if you're into that sort of thing ( I tend not to both with them as I prefer to rely on my sense of the enemy commander than any computer intel intercepts ). There is NO interpretation during this phase. You are just taking information in. Obviously this information you take in doesn't have to be limited to the game alone but could also include information in emails your opponent sends e.g. "I'm frustrated with my fighter performance" etc. Orient = Orient on the information. Process it and decide what the raw information MEANS. In other words, transform the raw information into an appreciation of the situation. Decide: Once you have gathered the information and decided what it means it is time to decide on your reaction to this situation. Act: Once you've decided what to do it is time to turn your decision into actual in-game or real-world action. Example 1: Observe: Enemy fighters are sweeping Palembang. Over the past 2 days 400 Zeroes have swept Palembang. In addition I can see many fleets with hordes of APs and AKs at Singapore and Singkawang. I also don't know where KB is. Orient: My interpretation of this informaiton is that an invasion of Sumatra is likely over the coming days. Since the enemy sweeps are over Palembang I believe he's going to land there instead of Oosthaven. Decide: I've decided to commit my entire reserve to Palembang, doubling the combat force available for its defence. Act: Having him land at Palembang suits me perfectly so I'm going to do nothing until his troops begin to disembark. Once they do I'm going to base 200+ fighters at Palembang and attack his unloading transports with bombers from Lahat, Oosthaven etc. I am also going to bring my battleline ( navy ) into a state of highh readiness ready to sail into action should he decide to make for Oosthaven. Example 2: Observe: I can see the enemy pilot over the past few seconds has decided to begin a turning fight with me.... We missed eachother and thus are reversing into eachother. Orient: DAMN !!! He's scissoring me. Decide: My plane is at a massive disadvantage in a scissors. I need to extend out during one of the moves and try and egress the area. Act: At the next point of change in our relative manoeuvres while the enemy may begin to reverse in I'll continue pulling away, diving downward and trying to convert the scissors into a tail chase -- which I, with my superior speed, will win, living to fight another day. Is that helpful? As to organising a plan in detail... Sure, that won't be before the weekend though. I would say though that my planning tends to be really, really, really simple and might be quite surprising to you. I really don't get into the details too much most of the time. With that understood though I'm happy to outline how I approach a situation.

Galahad78 -> RE: Seadragon CO transferred to BB... (7/22/2010 11:28:09 AM)
Thanks a lot Nemo, this is exactly what I was looking for!! (thanks also for the air combat example, very enlightening [;)] thanks God that AE pace is much much slower than a dogfight [:D]). OK, so I take then that (AE-wise) the observation phase takes in account basically the thoroughness of the player, while the orientation phase takes more skills (game experience, for instance, to see the "trends", analytical skills, a bit of imagination also, etc.). Decide could be for me the most complex phase, as it would take all of the before skills, plus more imagination, certain knowledge of military operations, etc., and at the same time all of this must fit into the higher layer of the war plan (action that benefits the ultimate strategic goals, I mean, instead of a mere reaction). The acting phase would encompass the knowledge of the game mechanics to put together what have been decided. Surely I'm missing a lot of things, but all in all is a good starting point for me [:)] Looking forward to the planning!!! [:)]

Nemo121 -> Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/23/2010 6:09:33 PM)
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 22, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Submarine attack near Ontong Java at 113,127 Japanese Ships SS I-174 Allied Ships AD Dixie, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage I've been running ADs, AEs and AGs into Kusaie Island and Darwin/ the Cocos Islands in order to support significant naval actions. Unfortunately Dixie got tagged today. I doubt she'll make port either. C'est la guerre. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 114 encounters mine field at Truk (112,108) Allied Ships CA Pensacola, Mine hits 1 This was a Japanese defensive mine. Interesting that he feels the need to be defensive at Truk at this stage. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Truk at 112,108, Range 12,000 Yards Basically I sent 3 x CA, 1 x CL and about 20 DDs into Truk tonight in an effort to: a) ambush enemy CVs which I expected to be replenishing at Truk following their strikes on the Warspite b) attriting the enemy SC TF which Mike must have guarding Truk and c) catching any transports I can. d) gaining intel by finding out the composition of the enemy force.... Every CA and BB and CV I find is one less main line unit which can be committed to the DEI before month's end. I wasn't expecting to accomplish all four goals. I was expecting only the 1st and 2nd but, in the end, I accomplished all 4 goals although enemy losses were less than I would have liked. Still, every bit helps. Allied aircraft no flights Allied aircraft losses No Allied losses Japanese Ships CA Maya, Shell hits 1 CA Ashigara, Shell hits 2 CA Mogami CA Suzuya CA Furutaka, Shell hits 2 CA Kako CL Kashima DD Murasame DD Harusame DD Samidare, Shell hits 1 DD Ayanami SIX CAs. I've sunk four and 6 more are here. That's pretty much the entire modern CA fleet accounted for. More and more I think he isn't bothering with the DEI at all. He just can't leave 6 CAs and most of KB at Truk if he wants to make headway into the DEI. Allied Ships CL Detroit, Shell hits 11, and is sunk DD Chew, Shell hits 1 DD Dent DD Crane, Shell hits 1, on fire DD Kilty, Shell hits 6, and is sunk I lost a CL and DD but that's simply because the guard force was much stronger than I had expected. I was expecting 2 x CA, not 6. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Truk at 112,108, Range 12,000 Yards Japanese Ships CV Kaga, Shell hits 2 CV Akagi, Shell hits 1 CL Nagara CL Abukuma CL Kiso CL Kitakami DD Yukikaze DD Hayashio DD Amatsukaze DD Tokitsukaze DD Yamakaze DD Umikaze DD Yugure Kaga took 2 x penetrating 8 inch hits while Akagi took an 8 inch shell which bounced off the belt armour. Not a bad night's work for the New Orleans though. On another note, he has 2 to 3 other CV TFs. If they have as many DDs and CLs as this TF and counting the CAs I've already spotted he really can't have much more than a couple of BB TFs supported by DDs for the DEI. This might well explain why he is being so slow there... He may be being slow because I've scared him enough to warrant committment of most of his navy in the Marshalls and these raids and pinprick attacks are, at a cost, maintaining the strategic pressure. Allied Ships CA New Orleans, Shell hits 2 DD Porter DD Selfridge DD Balch DD Clark Reduced sighting due to 28% moonlight Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 28% moonlight: 12,000 yards CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 12,000 yards Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 12,000 yards -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sub attack near Truk at 112,108 Japanese Ships SS RO-60 Allied Ships DD Dale CA Astoria DD Hughes DD Sims DD Sands DD Humphreys DD Litchfield DD Fox -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Truk at 112,108, Range 10,000 Yards And now for the transport TF... This is a VERY interesting TF. The first thing I noticed were the 3 DDs... a very heavy escort for such a convoy IMO. The next thing I noticed was that the convoy comprised nothing but PBs... I am taking this to mean that the convoys he is sending to areas near the front which I may raid are being created with a view to self-defence vs my DD raiders. This robs his surface combat forces of DDs and means his actual SC TFs mightn't be as strong as they might otherwise be. Japanese Ships DD Uzuki, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Yuzuki, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk DD Kuretake PB Chiyo Maru #4, Shell hits 15, and is sunk PB Busho Maru, Shell hits 10, and is sunk PB Choko Maru #2, Shell hits 6, and is sunk PB Keijo Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire PB Kiso Maru, Shell hits 1 PB Koei Maru, Shell hits 3, and is sunk PB Nikkai Maru, Shell hits 8, and is sunk PB Taiko Maru, Shell hits 11, and is sunk PB Takunan Maru #5, Shell hits 3, and is sunk PB Kosin Maru #3, Shell hits 10, and is sunk PB Sento Maru, Shell hits 2 PB Yahada Maru, Shell hits 6, and is sunk Allied Ships CA Pensacola, Shell hits 4 CA Astoria, Shell hits 1 DD Sims DD Hughes DD O'Brien DD Hull DD Dale, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk DD Fox DD Litchfield, Shell hits 1 DD Humphreys DD Sands I lose the DD Dale to a lucky torpedo strike but manage to sink 9 PB and a DD. Several other PBs and a DD are left in sinking condition. Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 39% moonlight: 12,000 yards Range closes to 16,000 yards... Range closes to 10,000 yards... CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 10,000 yards CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 10,000 yards Scanland, F. crosses the 'T' -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Night Time Surface Combat, near Truk at 112,108, Range 12,000 Yards Japanese Ships DD Uzuki, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage PB Keijo Maru, on fire PB Kiso Maru PB Sento Maru, on fire Allied Ships CA Astoria DD Sims DD Hughes DD O'Brien DD Hull DD Fox DD Litchfield DD Humphreys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Amphibious Assault at Dinagat TF 281 troops unloading over beach at Dinagat, 81,87 He continues cleaning up the Phillipines. Not the most useful thing to be doing right now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Day Time Surface Combat, near Truk at 112,108, Range 28,000 Yards Japanese Ships CV Kaga CV Akagi CL Nagara CL Abukuma CL Kiso CL Kitakami DD Yukikaze DD Hayashio DD Amatsukaze DD Tokitsukaze DD Yamakaze DD Umikaze DD Yugure Allied Ships CA Pensacola, Shell hits 1 DD Sands Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 22,000 yards CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 22,000 yards Both TF attempt to withdraw! Range increases to 28,000 yards... CA Pensacola engages CV Akagi at 28,000 yards Task forces break off... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Truk at 109,107 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 15 minutes Japanese aircraft G3M2 Nell x 4 Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged Allied Ships CA Astoria The large number of contacts overnight means that several of my TFs end up within a couple of hexes of Truk in the morning time. I had anticipated this however and had set my TFs to retreat away from Ponape ( which most of the naval search was bound to cover ) and towards Ambon. This didn't prevent all of the strikes launching but it did prevent 2 of the CV groups from launching on my TFs and reduced the number of strikes they had to weather by more than 50%, a very significant addition. Basically CVs WILL launch on shipping spotted by land bases etc BUT they are a bit less likely to launch than if those ships were spotted by their own search planes. I believe this is intended to represent imperfect and delayed comms from the time and reflect the fact that instantaneous transmission of info by satellites is not what can be expected in 1942. As such, if you are going to end up in enemy waters in the morning it is WELL worth trying to ensure you are outside of the search arcs of the main enemy TFs as that maximises your chances of surviving. It won't always work ( which will drive the deterministic, Newtonian crowd crazy ) but it is a good representation of how things worked at the time. Aircraft Attacking: 4 x G3M2 Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 87th Chinese Corps, at 85,50 (Hankow) Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid spotted at 36 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 2 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 3 No Japanese losses Aircraft Attacking: 1 x Ki-27b Nate bombing from 100 feet 3 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar bombing from 100 feet 1 x Ki-27b Nate bombing from 100 feet Also attacking 94th Chinese Corps ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 63rd Chinese Corps, at 76,54 (Kweilin) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 11 Ki-36 Ida x 21 Ki-51 Sonia x 29 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-36 Ida: 1 damaged Ki-51 Sonia: 3 damaged Aircraft Attacking: 29 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 10000 feet * Ground Attack: 2 x 50 kg GP Bomb 21 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 10000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 30 kg GP Bomb Just the usual bombing raids by the IJAAF. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 8th Chinese Corps, at 85,50 (Hankow) Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 9 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-48-Ib Lily x 10 No Japanese losses Allied ground losses: 19 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Truk , at 112,108 Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 14 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 33 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 21 Allied aircraft LB-30 Liberator x 3 No Japanese losses Allied aircraft losses LB-30 Liberator: 2 destroyed See, 4-engined bombers can be downed. The LB30s are too fragile, I'm pulling them out of the front line for now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115 Weather in hex: Light rain Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 6 minutes Allied aircraft A-20A Havoc x 12 Allied aircraft losses A-20A Havoc: 1 damaged Airbase supply hits 1 Runway hits 10 These raids burn supplies, keep the forts down and train my pilots up. Win, win, win. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Kwajalein Island , at 132,115 Weather in hex: Light rain Raid spotted at 42 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 17 minutes Allied aircraft B-18A Bolo x 3 P-40E Warhawk x 1 No Allied losses Port hits 1 The port raids are to keep him honest with damaged subs. If he docks them here I'll sink them so he must take the risk of sending them to Truk --- where they can get sunk by my sub ambushers as happened recently. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 23rd Indian Mountain Gun Regiment, at 57,56 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 11 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-21-IIa Sally x 31 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 8 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-21-IIa Sally: 10 damaged Every day he attacks and every day I damage so many bombers 1 or 2 become ops losses. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Truk at 109,107 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 15 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 15 B5N1 Kate x 25 B5N2 Kate x 21 D3A1 Val x 34 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged D3A1 Val: 3 damaged Allied Ships CA Astoria, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Humphreys DD Fox DD Hull DD Litchfield, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage DD O'Brien DD Sims DD Hughes Hmm, 80 planes for only 4 hits... I diagnose a bad case of low naval attack/torp attack expertise. Mike is now paying the price for his losses in pilots in the early months of the war. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Hankow Special Base Force, at 85,50 (Hankow) I'm continuing to try to support the attacks on Hankow. Tomorrow I will regarrison the base which is currently blocking supplies to Hankow and a day after that a 45,000 ton delivery of supplies from Burma will finally be in position just north of Hankow ready to support the necessary offensives in the north of China. Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 10 minutes Allied aircraft SB-III x 10 No Allied losses -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Truk at 109,107 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 6 minutes Japanese aircraft G3M2 Nell x 3 No Japanese losses Allied Ships DD Humphreys -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on 161st Infantry Regiment, at 136,48 (Onnekotan-jima) Weather in hex: Extreme overcast Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 15 minutes Japanese aircraft G4M1 Betty x 21 Japanese aircraft losses G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged Allied ground losses: 13 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled) Aircraft Attacking: 21 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Truk at 109,107 Weather in hex: Thunderstorms Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 15 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 15 B5N1 Kate x 29 B5N2 Kate x 16 D3A1 Val x 26 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged D3A1 Val: 1 damaged Allied Ships DD O'Brien DD Hughes DD Hull DD Humphreys CA Astoria, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Fox DD Sims NO hits... Gees, those pilots must be very poor indeed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on 1st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 85,50 (Hankow) Weather in hex: Severe storms Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 7 minutes Allied aircraft A-29A Hudson x 6 Allied aircraft losses A-29A Hudson: 1 damaged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ASW attack near Hengchun at 85,68 Japanese Ships DD Hatakaze Allied Ships SS Spearfish SS Spearfish is sighted by escort DD Hatakaze fails to find sub, continues to search... DD Hatakaze fails to find sub, continues to search... DD Hatakaze fails to find sub, continues to search... Escort abandons search for sub So, overall, the offensive in China is on a pause as the north runs a little short of supplies and I pause 2 days to re-open my supply route and bring 45,000 tons of supply forward while forces in the south race after the retreating Japanese and look forward to recapturing 3 or 4 inland cities. In the Pacific I've hit Truk, positively IDed the presence of 6 CVs and roughed Truk up yet again. I also, very usefully, found out that MIke wasn't willing to follow Warspite into my LRCAP umbrella. He really IS afraid of committing KB to strikes against targets protected by my CAP...In the end he'll do so but as the counsel of despair... and that'll play into my hands at that time. All in all a very useful turn in terms of divining his state of mind.

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/23/2010 8:24:32 PM)
quote: Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 15 B5N1 Kate x 29 B5N2 Kate x 16 D3A1 Val x 26 Japanese aircraft losses B5N1 Kate: 1 damaged D3A1 Val: 1 damaged Allied Ships DD O'Brien DD Hughes DD Hull DD Humphreys CA Astoria, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Fox DD Sims NO hits... Gees, those pilots must be very poor indeed. Still, it looks like Astoria has had it. Oh, well, a reasonable price to pay for a lot of intel on IJN dispositions.[sm=happy0065.gif]

FatR -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/23/2010 8:32:55 PM)
Even the initial KB complement sometimes can't hit the broad side of a barn, if dice is not on their side. In the same game and with the same pilots I had 21 Vals scoring 9 hits on two cruiser targets and 26 scoring only one (in different encounters).

Nemo121 -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/24/2010 2:58:22 AM)
The key though, FatR, is that these aren't the elite beginning pilots. Sure die rolls play into it but I've got to believe that his KB pilots are poor as this is the second time his strikes from KB have, over the past 2 weeks, really failed to achieve the results they would have with elite pilots. Supposition and conjecture? Surely, but conjecture is a part of the strategic art. In the end you might be right but I'm going to base my future ops on "poor KB strikegroup pilots". This means I'll take more risks in operating close to KB with DDs etc. Maybe I'll lose lots over it, maybe not.

modrow -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/24/2010 10:13:44 AM)
Maybe not what is happening in this game, but as you can stand down/deactivate pilots from a formation, why not fill up the sqadron with unblooded rookies, use them for the mission while the good ones are deactivated and accept replacable plane losses in exchange for a chance to lead your opponent to decisions that are, in the light of objective information rather than impressions, unwise ? IMHO, a possible example for ways to guide your opponent in AE. Hartwig P.S: Nemo, I pm'd you re. subscription to the turn mailing list you offered to set up above, assuming that you still got my e-mail address. Let me know if that is not the case. Thanks.

Nemo121 -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/24/2010 3:35:15 PM)
Standing down pilots can be achieved two ways: 1. Sending them home for 180 days - not an acceptable choice for Japan in early 1942 when it has those 6 months in which to take territory cheaply. That's just not a sensible option at this stage. 2. Sending them into the general reserve or airgroup reserve. The problem with this is that it will take at least 7 days AND a port for those pilots to return to the airgroups. What this means is that if the IJN CVs are brought into action at a time and place NOT of Japan's choosing the IJN risks massive losses as all those rookies get slaughtered to no avail and all of those elite pilots sitting in Yokohama suddenly have no CVs to return to. Secondly Mike simply isn't that sneaky. Thirdly, anyone playing me who gambles that they can choose the time and place of an action without that action actually being something I've guided them into and is secretly something happening on MY terms is, I think, taking one risk too far. I think that if I were playing myself I wouldn't be at all confident that I could control things sufficiently to keep those IJN CVs away from the USN CVs if I were pursuing such a gambit. One reason I'm sure that he can't keep them out of range of the USN CVs is that those CVs happen to be only a day's sailing away from the IJN CVs and if it were part of my strategy to attrit KB's decks I would have sent them into action against one of the 3 IJN CV TFs yesterday ( of note, those IJN CV TFs are sufficiently separated that it would be easy to attack one of the TFs without risking airstrikes from the other 2 ). Basically he has deployed into a triangle which covers Truk from aattack and yet hangs back far enough that I can't attack it with LB. The problem is that the sides of the triangle are about 6 hexes long each and that means I could park 5 hexes from one of the points, hit that TF and still be more than 10 hexes from each of the other two TFs. Fortunately for him such action isn't part of my strategy though so I have foregone the opportunity to do this. My CVs are currently deployed ferrying USN fighters and shorter-range planes to Darwin from which they'll make their own way into the DEI and bolster the aerial defence of southern Borneo/southern DEI. I have previously considered what you are suggesting Hartwig and the conclusion I came to was that the best way to use it was over the course of 4 months ( 4 months because training someone from 35 Exp to 70 Exp takes about 3 months + 1 month for switching in and out of pilots etc to achieve the exact mix you want ) in late 43 or early 44 ( probably best in late 43 because the Allies will be less worried about being swamped by kamikaze attacks ) such that the Allies only faced low-quality pilots for 4 months of combat and got used to the idea that they'd broken your airpower. You'd have to throw away a LOT of planes to achieve this strategic maskirovka and it'd be important to commit IJNAF CV squadrons too and let them be savaged ( only after swapping out the good pilots of course ). In the end though the USN would be committed to some sort of deep strike or, at least, a target a little out of range of USAAF land-based cover. At that point you'd unmask the CV air you've been training for the past 4 months AND you'd have an entire replacement cohort waiting in the wings comprised of all of the pilots you retired to the general reserve 4 months ago. In effect you'd be immediately able to replace any pilot losses from your general reserve in a manner the USN and USAAF forces in the area would be most unlikely to do. At that point of contact this little strategem would give Japan the superior ability to withstand attrition and, quite probably, a superiority in pilot quality it hadn't enjoyed for the past year to 18 months. It is, as some of you will point out, a one shot deal. Once you've done this once it will not be possible to do it again BUT the ALlied player will : a) have lost a lot of surface assets and this will hamper future invasions and, more importantly, b) it will make him a lot more cautious and will teach him to view any future weakness as a potential trap. That will slow him down and buy you time in 44 and 45 as the time of desparation gives way to the epoch of despair in 45. Slowing him down will give you a much greater opportunity to redeploy and actually shore up weaknesses more quickly than he takes advantage of them. In short the strategic gambit and its operational culmination should have ( if properly managed by the IJN player ) operational and strategic impacts right up to the end of the war. Right now though I don't think it makes sense for the IJN to do that. He is strong, he doesn't need to feign weakness right now. Right now his strength can bull through anything I put into the air. Hell, I estimate the survival of my airforce over Sumatra at being about 4 days right now IF he commits the IJAAF and KB in a full-strength attack and I have over 1,000 planes there so he really does have the strength without the need for subterfuge... and as I said, Mike just isn't that sneaky IMO. P.s. I mailed the latest turn file and password to you a short time ago. If you haven't gotten it in an hour PM me and I'll resend.

wpurdom -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/24/2010 8:49:15 PM)
quote: The key though, FatR, is that these aren't the elite beginning pilots. Sure die rolls play into it but I've got to believe that his KB pilots are poor as this is the second time his strikes from KB have, over the past 2 weeks, really failed to achieve the results they would have with elite pilots. Comparing the previous turn, part of it is likely that they aren't top-notch, part that they have fatigue and lower morale after the encounter with Warpite - the 3/21 results weren't great, but they were better. Pilot management - You can keep your pilots locally if you fill up with first the new pilot command and then continue adding with the get veteran command. Once they've all arrived you can reserve them or activate them without losing them in transit. But I'm with you - deliberately putting your good pilots in KB into reserve and using your poor pilots to attack seems a recipe for disaster in the middle of the Pacific. quote: Right now though I don't think it makes sense for the IJN to do that. He is strong, he doesn't need to feign weakness right now. Right now his strength can bull through anything I put into the air. Hell, I estimate the survival of my airforce over Sumatra at being about 4 days right now IF he commits the IJAAF and KB in a full-strength attack and I have over 1,000 planes there so he really does have the strength without the need for subterfuge... and as I said, Mike just isn't that sneaky IMO. Are you assuming you are going to have to commit your airforce to a "do or die" attritional fight? I would think you're going to be strong enough on the ground that your can follow ealier tactics of picking the days and location of engagement.

modrow -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/24/2010 10:31:02 PM)
Nemo, thanks fot the detailed and interesting answer and the turn file you sent. quote: ORIGINAL: Nemo121 2. Sending them into the general reserve or airgroup reserve. The problem with this is that it will take at least 7 days AND a port for those pilots to return to the airgroups. Are you positively sure about this ? I thought - and a very brief experiment in the coral sea scenario seems to confirm this - left clicking makes the pilot inactive, right clicking the deactivated (grey) pilot in the turn after that makes it come back immediately or at most with a one day delay (the available pilot count in the group's screen goes up instantaneously). I can provide screenshots tomorrow if needed. Thanks again Hartwig

Nemo121 -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/24/2010 11:06:27 PM)
Leave them out of the unit for a month or two and see how long they take to come back. My record is something like 14 days for a pilot. 7 days is a reasonable assumption to swap in an entire daitai of 27 pilots. Sure some will come back on the 1st day BUT what use is it sailing after 3 days with 9 top-notch pilots and 27 planes? I am basing my experience on what is happening with the RAF and USAAF in the DEI and Marshalls. There it is taking my pilots an average of a week to arrive from the general reserve. I think, perhaps, your results are due to it being a small scenario and the length of time between transfers being so small. I'm not sure though but I am certain, absolutely certain, that swapping elite pilots in and replacing an entire sentai or daitai of pilots will not be done in 1 or 2 days if those pilots have been transferred out some months previously.

Nemo121 -> Strategic Planning (7/25/2010 12:35:19 AM)
Well, the first thing you need to remember is that I'm very firmly in the Tukhachevsky branch of things and ascribe to the ruthless Soviet ordering of the levels of conflict: National Policy objectives drive the strategic planning which drive the operational planning which drives the tactical positioning and posture. If at any point there is a mismatch between an operational and tactical imperative then the operational imperative should be the driver of operational and tactical planning. Same goes for strategic vs operational and national policy vs strategic. So, all planning must be driven by the national policy objectives. Since you don't have an political leadership modelled in-game ( not to a realistic extent anyway, there are attempts to extrapolate it but they are crude ) you get to decide the national policy objectives. In my case I decided that my national policy objective would be to attack the enemy's critical weaknesses. Political - Enemy morale. I planned to attack this by conducting a defence which would be actively frustrating to my opponent's hopes and morale. Certainly part of the aim was to frustrate his plans but another, significant part, was to frustrate HIM by causing him more problems etc than he had initially expected. Military - I sought to identify the areas of his military in which I could cause significant attritional damage which he'd find it difficult to make good. These areas were combat vessels for the navy and, to a lesser extent, IJNAF strike groups. I to be continued

Canoerebel -> RE: Strategic Planning (7/25/2010 12:41:25 AM)
...either the power just went out or Nemo's wife entered the room and in a sultry voice coquettishly whispered, "Come here, you winsome strategic psychologist, and analyize this!"

modrow -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/25/2010 10:57:01 AM)
Nemo, quote: ORIGINAL: Nemo121 Leave them out of the unit for a month or two and see how long they take to come back. My record is something like 14 days for a pilot. 7 days is a reasonable assumption to swap in an entire daitai of 27 pilots. Sure some will come back on the 1st day BUT what use is it sailing after 3 days with 9 top-notch pilots and 27 planes? I am basing my experience on what is happening with the RAF and USAAF in the DEI and Marshalls. There it is taking my pilots an average of a week to arrive from the general reserve. I think, perhaps, your results are due to it being a small scenario and the length of time between transfers being so small. I'm not sure though but I am certain, absolutely certain, that swapping elite pilots in and replacing an entire sentai or daitai of pilots will not be done in 1 or 2 days if those pilots have been transferred out some months previously. I think the key is that you talk about swapping the entire daitai, whereas I was more thinking along bringing the Daitai from 27 to 36 pilots and use mostly the noobs, leaving the rest deactivated and reactivating them when needed. You were looking at "merely" 40ish Kates and 30ish Vals. Not sure how many carriers you were facing, but if it is a significant amount of KB's carriers, that strike package can be put together as described above. Admittedly, though, that may be detectable during the combat replay. In any case, I think the detailed pilot management functions should allow for adding some interesting observations for one's opponent worth considering. Hartwig

Nemo121 -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/25/2010 11:24:36 AM)
The idea of willingly running my primary strategic formation of decision ( KB ) at less than 1/3rd of its true combat potential ( 27 trainees are nowhere near as effective as 9 elite pilots ) and ONLY being able to increase that potential to about half a day AFTER any ambush ( by activating the 9 elite pilots you were holding de-activated in the squadron itself ) and NOT being able to reach full potential until one reached port and waited several additional days for pilots to transfer in from the general reserve is simply anathema to me. You lose KB's immediate striking power, you lose its resilience to ambush and you lose its ability to rapidly respond to an Allied invasion... why? Well instead of simply topping off the fuel tanks and racing for wherever the Allies are invading on the day after you spot them you will instead have to swap in and out all those pilots and then wait 7 days or so and only THEN go to where the Allies are invading, by which time the invasion will have succeeded or failed based on its own merit. I think that to willfully do this to one's primary formation of strategic decision - which makes it the most important formation on the entire map - is simply running too massive of a risk. I think it is possible to over-complicate things and run too large a risk looking for that final "edge". Sometimes one needs to be satisfied with less than the theoretical maximum because that maximum carries with it unacceptable risks. wpurdom, Sorry I missed your question till now. As to my air force.... I think that if he attacks I'll commit the air force to a do or die defence of Sumatra and, now that I've put in sufficient garrisons ( 400 to 500 AV each in Kendari, Ambon and Makassar with Balikpapan due for building up to 500 AV next ) to the southern DEI also. If he doesn't attack then I'll simply use the air force as little as possible to inflict as favourable losses as possible on his IJNAF groups, which I've been preferentially targetting all game. If I do go on the offensive one can expect that any base I take will have an inordinate amount of AAA committed to its defence as that's the cheapest way for me to dissuade his aerial attacks and I don't mind him making an attack on a base if he loses 1/3rd to 1/2 of all bombers committed - which is what was happening when he hit Palembang last month.

Alfred -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/25/2010 6:57:27 PM)
These discussions are fast becoming pointless. It has now been some weeks since Nemo structually implemented his force structure and there has been precious little evidence presented that his opponent has adopted any offensive plan based on the new situation. Too much time has been wasted, time which is needed for the preliminary actions before the main operation is launched. Without these preliminaries what is likely to occur is a frontal assault, and that is a course of action with very little chance of success. I am starting to fear that my comment regarding being rattled (made in post #468) might be too accurate. Alfred

Nemo121 -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/25/2010 7:19:35 PM)
Well, he continues to try to retake Onnekotan Jima in the Kuriles and is mopping up the Phillipines. He has made a few forays to southern Borneo also but appears to pull back once spotted by recon. With that said I think he may very well be so rattled that he may not seek to advance at all anymore but, instead, focusses on what he can do to prevent further attacks from my forces - that's what I was trying to achieve but I didn't think it'd be this successful. Right now I think we'll see one of two things: a) an IJN lunge into Java from Singapore/Singkawang - it'll be a frontal assault with no subtlety and it should be relatively easily contained. b) no co-ordinated Japanese offensive at all. Right now I'm turning more and more toward the second option and am beginning to plan for the major Allied counter-offensives to come by marshalling the necessary APs and AKs and have been putting into place another IJN-culling operation for the past few days. If the situation is favourable in about 3 days time we might see the USN smash into a major IJN base with 4 BBs and assorted DDs. My goal is attrit the IJN as per the overall strategic plan but, more specifically to attrit them in a given region as preparation for offensive action in that region in about 4 weeks time. In addition I will also seek to monitor his response... Does he react to the attrition by replacing the SC TF guarding the base or does he withdraw the IJN? Either is acceptable as I can take advantage of either. I think there's a very real possibility that Mike may never move on Sumatra. If he doesn't then the Allies are going to begin a general counter-offensive on 2 additional axes in 1 month's time. If those offensives succeed then this one won't be competitive at all by the end of 1942 in spite of the fact that the IJNAAF, IJAAF and KB will still be superior to anything the Allies can muster. Fortunately naval and aerial superiority isn't necessary for offensive action - even though this is a Pacific War game.

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/25/2010 8:19:03 PM)
quote: I think there's a very real possibility that Mike may never move on Sumatra. If he doesn't then the Allies are going to begin a general counter-offensive on 2 additional axes in 1 month's time. If those offensives succeed then this one won't be competitive at all by the end of 1942 in spite of the fact that the IJNAAF, IJAAF and KB will still be superior to anything the Allies can muster. Fortunately naval and aerial superiority isn't necessary for offensive action As Nathan Bedford Forrest explained in different words, it's all about having superiority at the point of contact. A counter-offensive rather soon seems like a good idea because I don't see this game lasting until the end of 1942. Especially, invading Java when there is significant LBA on Sumatra seems like a way to take serious losses.

erstad -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/26/2010 3:46:20 AM)
hartwig.modrow is correct about the game mechanics related to pilots, in my experience. In addition, the pilot manual documents this behavior, emphasis added: quote: If the pilot is �grayed� and delay is one, then left-click will allow pilot to be transferred to the General Reserve (with a random 15 day delay). Right-click will allow pilot to be activated for immediate use. The key is that you folks keep talking to orthogonal points. hartwig.modrow is talking about putting pilots into the group's reserve, and activating them again. Nemo121 is talking about getting pilots out of the general reserve. I'm not arguing for or against the suggested strategy, just affirming the mechanics. You definitely can put pilots into the group reserve, and have them available to restore with no delay. Oh, and no port required or involved.

Nemo121 -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/26/2010 11:38:36 PM)
erstad, "with no delay" is the key... If you're ambushed you only get access to them the day AFTER the first day of combat... TO me that's far too high a price to pay. You're right I had the detail of the ports wrong with respect to those pilots in group reserve though. Thanks for the clarification.

Andy Mac -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/26/2010 11:55:23 PM)
Surely he has only one choice now take whatever lumps he has to pay the butchers bill in men and machines but get ashore with everything he can muster and fight the fight he needs to fight. It will cost him but if he does it right he can surely still take Sumatra eventually - if he doesnt its game over.

Andy Mac -> RE: Slaughter at Truk... AGAIN! (7/26/2010 11:59:58 PM)
i.e. night bomb with sallies for 5 days to damage your air bases follow it up with massed zero sweeps for three days to from D+2 Clean out your air power whatever it takes Then hit the AF's in turn with massed air power from malaya he still has superiority if he is willing to take his lumps. The send in wave after wave of subs mini subs and Netties from Singapore to force back your heavy naval power The send in massed CL led DD flotillas to exhaust allied ship ammo not talking 2 or 3 talking 10 or 12 LL armed sqns of DD's and CL's in one night the first 3 or 4 will get creamed but allied ammo will get depleted eventually Only then land an almighty armada under cover of every bomber he can muster 10 - 12 Divs No messing pay the butchers bill and do what needs to be done What am I missing ?

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