RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (Full Version)

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Obsolete -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/10/2010 5:12:59 PM)

Now that Combat Command is being resurrected and re-vamped, this COULD change a few things.  Just possibly.





ilovestrategy -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/10/2010 7:19:53 PM)

I don't know which one is the best but my personal favorite is Gary Grigsby's World at War. I've been playing that for just about 5 years and I still am not tired of it. 



Knavery -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/10/2010 7:39:43 PM)

Ha... I own that and haven't even played it yet. I've had it for about as long. I should stop buying games and play some of these.



bairdlander2 -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 1:10:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Gary Grigsby's World at War

I paid $39.95 for it,6 months later it was selling for $3.50,that game stunk.



Lieste -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 2:29:46 AM)

I'd have to say the best currently available wargame is COTA, with no reservation at all.

Of course it can't stay as the best game of all time, and I expect there will be better games released over the years...
The first of which looks likely to be BFTB. [:'(]

The Panther games series strongly rewards terrain and capability analysis, and solid planning, including retaining a mobile reserve. It manages large formations moving over intricate and realistic terrains where space and time is strongly enforced - the AI manages the finer details of movement and combat, both for the human and AI forces, so relatively few individual orders are needed to move the entire force according to the plan. The detail and intricacy is in the generalship - recognising the threats, opportunity and risks and minimising the enemy potential, and not in the usual artificial movement and phased combats of 1000s of abstract counters over hundreds of hexes.





Knavery -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 2:40:37 AM)

Is COTA worth the inflated price if one already has Highway to the Reich?



bairdlander2 -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 3:11:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Knavery

Is COTA worth the inflated price if one already has Highway to the Reich?

same question as I am deciding which one of the two.



Lieste -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 3:17:08 AM)

Your call. AFAIK, it does have improvements to the supply and AI functionality over HTTR and especially the even older RDOA, but some might prefer West Front '44 from BFTB and HTTR. If money is a concern and interesting sideshows don't appeal you might prefer not to get it. OTOH, I haven't felt a pressing need to purchase any other titles at all recently, so the decision was taken to get something I would enjoy, and perhaps learn useful skills for application to my other main wargame/sim title, SB Pro/ProPE, rather than two or three other titles that I will probably play less of.

How much do you enjoy HTTR? I never made the update from RDOA as it didn't seem to add enough extra for the utilisation of my gaming budget, so I can understand your reluctance. I do plan on getting BFTB.

O/T but compared to SB, COTA is a snip BTW, but SBProPE is worth every penny too.



JudgeDredd -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 7:01:24 AM)

I'd say so as you get a whole load of new and interesting scenarios...the game plays out brilliant and if you already have then you know how it plays...but the scenarios are excellent.



GoodGuy -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 8:11:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I for one think it has some of the best AI and command structure out there...and that's why I rate it so highly.


Sorry Judge, but I have to correct you there: COTA has the best AI out there. [:D]
That AI, concise map gfx and the "continuous time" feature create a level of realism for operational combat I don't see in other games/sims, maybe except for 3D-combat simulators like the VBS engine ("Virtual Battle Space" http://virtualbattlespace.vbs2.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=144&Itemid=108 , Bohemia Interactive, check out the first video), but those are used for squad/platoon training, or even individual (vehicle) crew training, and aren't meant to simulate anything bigger than Coy-sized engagements on the ground (usually platoons only).

Some people are missing contour lines in COTA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT8hSOsuClk&feature=player_embedded#
Check VBS' built-in AAR feature at around 3:07, military trainers can switch from 3D to map mode for AAR/analyzis.

So, contour lines would be a nice addition to COTA.
Still, the COTA engine would make for a perfect OP combat sim at say West Point, either as WW2 version or as enhanced modern combat version, if it would include air units/capabilities (bombardments, transportation) and if it could render amphibious troop contingents.



Andrew Williams -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 10:06:58 AM)


COTA
http://www.panthergames.com/News/Articles/20080709-001.html

Also the Close Combat series is being used by the US Marines and the RAF

http://www.nasaga.org/webx/resources/resources/close_combat_marine_workbook.pdf



Knavery -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 2:46:16 PM)

Well I bought COTA. I hope it's worth the hype I've been hearing. I definitely like the forced resolution option you can use in the shortcut. I can get it to run very pretty on my widescreen.



Scott_WAR -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 6:58:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Gary Grigsby's World at War

I paid $39.95 for it,6 months later it was selling for $3.50,that game stunk.


Yeah for some reason technology was WAY too strong in that game. A level 2 unit could win every time against 10-15 level 1 units. Far too much of a stretngth jump, and it pretty much forced you into buying more tech than units.

We all know how much of an impact most new technologies played in the war. Radar,....not a big impact,..jets,...not a big impact,........rockets,...no impact at all,......the bomb,...one hell of an impact....literally.



Obsolete -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 8:32:26 PM)

Wow, first time I've seen someone complain about W@W being a game that "stunk". 

I know it's discontinued already, but IIRC it was sitting on the shelves of FutureShop stores for quite a while, wasn't it?

Anyhow, @ Scott's comments about the tech.  That sounds just like another game I know, by the name of Axis & Allies.  Come to think of it, these two games look almost identical at first glance as well.

I will still keep my fingers crossed and hope that Combat Command will have enough changes to pull away with top score.  Of course, the answere to which game is best can also differ according to what type of player is asking the question.





JudgeDredd -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 8:36:11 PM)

I honestly thought it stunk too.

I couldn't do the 3 month turns and one really, REALLY annoying thing (that stopped me playing actually) was I tried to move a ship into a sea zone (I think I was trying to create some kind of ridiculous chain of ships to move troops across) and the game said something like "Can't Move There" or something...no reason what so ever - no hint - just I couldn't do it. After trying to figure it out I gave up

That was the nail in the coffin really - I had pretty much decided I didn't like the 3 month turns and the huge regions anyway. Nothing about the game or mechanics got my gaming juices flowing.



Scott_WAR -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 8:40:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Obsolete

Wow, first time I've seen someone complain about W@W being a game that "stunk". 

I know it's discontinued already, but IIRC it was sitting on the shelves of FutureShop stores for quite a while, wasn't it?

Anyhow, @ Scott's comments about the tech.  That sounds just like another game I know, by the name of Axis & Allies.  Come to think of it, these two games look almost identical at first glance as well.

I will still keep my fingers crossed and hope that Combat Command will have enough changes to pull away with top score.  Of course, the answere to which game is best can also differ according to what type of player is asking the question.





Well,....to be fair WAW was discontinued because it was replaced/upgraded by WAW:AWD (A world divided). Axis and Allies was a good game, if you wanted a simple to learn, simple to play game,....and yes tech could destroy a good game in axis and allies. I usually tried to play with a house rule of no tech when I played it.



Obsolete -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 8:49:15 PM)

quote:

I honestly thought it stunk too.


Christ almighty!  I didn't expect to see TWO of those comments in the same thread!

Though perhaps you jumped the gun, and could have at least asked in the forum as to what was going on?  Anyhow, I'm not going to take any sides on how good or bad that game smelt.  Now, 4.4 hours left to download Wings of Prey....  I guess I'll grab a Dr. Pepper while I wait for this puppy to deliver.  I will be surprised if I get impressed somewhere along the way.





Knavery -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 9:06:11 PM)

So let's see... In the past couple of months I've bought the following:

TOAWIII
WWII:Time of Wrath
COTA
WWII:Advanced Tactics
EUIII:Heir to the Throne

That's a lot of money right there. Now... What to dive into first... Any suggestions? I could start on COTA as everyone suggests... Or maybe AT. Will I even have the patience to try one for very long without loading another one up? A.D.D here I come.



JudgeDredd -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 9:12:41 PM)

I don't think I jumped the gun. I'm pretty sure I would've asked in the forum. It was probably more to do with "If the game knows that you cannot do that, then it knows why...so why not relay that to the gamer??"...as I said (in a different way [:D]) that particular issue was the straw that broke the camels back.



JudgeDredd -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 9:15:07 PM)

I hated AT with a passion.

If you want a nice simple small scenario in COTA, then Bridges to Lamia is a good one and is also the tutorial. I did an AAR of it and loved that wee scenario.



Lieste -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/11/2010 11:02:25 PM)

I've just added an AAR for it too. Spend a reasonably large amount of effort using the LOS tools (both line and area) to get a feel for the relief, often there are areas of dead ground on very 'flat' areas that can provide opportunities for ambush, covered movement etc. Consider how far you are asking troops to move, and whether they need to rush, or if arriving an hour later but fresh is better.

Look at the capabilities of your units, and avoid unsupported advances by rifle/SMG armed companies within sight of LMG/SFMG/Gun supported troops. In this tutorial, it means finding somewhere safe for 2/82 Greek to operate.

If you can find his HQ or Artillery then pound them - the loss of an HQ, even temporarily as it routs and recovers will prevent any meaningful responses to a changing situation, and his artillery is your greatest threat, but it is impotent while limbered and this includes while displacing under fire.

The battle is usually decided after the cohesion and/or morale of one side breaks irretrievably, or the distance/time equation can no longer be fulfilled. Without the surrender of encircled enemies casualties are usually fairly light, except where concentrated artillery or air repeatedly strike exposed and moving troops.



thegreatwent -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 12:11:29 AM)

WitP:AE is my vote.



killroyishere -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 12:47:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Gary Grigsby's World at War

I paid $39.95 for it,6 months later it was selling for $3.50,that game stunk.


Amazing that sounds like my experience with HOI I paid $39.95 for it and it stunk and II and III along with it. [:D]



bairdlander2 -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 12:51:24 AM)

I tried to buy CotA last night and it said "processing" and the vista circle just kept spinning,after an hour I closed the page.Will try again today.



bairdlander2 -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 12:56:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere


quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: ilovestrategy

Gary Grigsby's World at War

I paid $39.95 for it,6 months later it was selling for $3.50,that game stunk.


Amazing that sounds like my experience with HOI I paid $39.95 for it and it stunk and II and III along with it. [:D]
if you didnt like HOI1 why would you buy HOI2?If you didnt like both HOI1 and 2 why would you buy HOI3.Seems pretty foolish on your part.



killroyishere -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 12:57:40 AM)

Who said I bought them? [:D] Makes you look kinda dumb now hahaha



bairdlander2 -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 1:20:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Who said I bought them? [:D] Makes you look kinda dumb now hahaha

Yes you are exactly right,Im so sorry I should have known better than to try and debate a teenager(or at least someone who seems to have the mentallity of one).Now go tell your mommy and daddy how you won against an adult on your precious wargame forum.Maybe they will increase your allowance or give you a cookie.[:D][:D][:D][:D]



killroyishere -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 1:29:32 AM)

Note above this is the typical paradox forum member behavior when threads get closed. I just wanted everyone to note how bairdlander trolls these forums dissing any Matrixgame at every opportune time. [:D] And yes I can use lots of smiley faces too.[:D][;)][:D][;)][:'(]



bairdlander2 -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 1:45:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: killroyishere

Note above this is the typical paradox forum member behavior when threads get closed. I just wanted everyone to note how bairdlander trolls these forums dissing any Matrixgame at every opportune time. [:D] And yes I can use lots of smiley faces too.[:D][;)][:D][;)][:'(]

[:-]Not true at all,I have several Matrix games which I enjoy and use on a regular basis.Perhaps you should stay on the thread topic instead of wasting mine and everyone else's time with your non sensical rant against me.just because my opinion differs from your's that does not make me a "troll".PI threads get closed because people go off topic,kind of like what you are doing.Time to grow up buddy.



killroyishere -> RE: What is the best Matrix WWII game? (2/12/2010 2:21:56 AM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander



Gary Grigsby's World at War

I paid $39.95 for it,6 months later it was selling for $3.50,that game stunk.


Looks to me like you took it off topic first pal. We didn't need your comments about Gary Grigsby's World at War stinking to you. The thread topic is about the best Matrix ww2 game. Not your likes and dislikes about certain games. So. You took it off topic troll. As you do this quite often.



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