RE: Price of this game. (Full Version)

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SuluSea -> RE: Price of this game. (5/30/2010 6:33:36 PM)

Considering some of the latest prices If this game comes in at under $90 not including shipping  I'll be happy and buy it on the first day



pad152 -> RE: Price of this game. (5/30/2010 6:54:18 PM)

I think $60 is tops for a PC game in this market/economy, Matrix needs to start breaking up their big expensive games, ($55-$60 base game) then release a ($20-$25 for the game editor/ scenario expansion pack). This way, the price isn't a deal breaker at release, and if people like it, they will buy the add-on(s) later. I hope they do this with War in the East, so we don't see another $80 game! Nobody really needs an editor on day one of a new release with a large complex game anyway.

Hurry up! release WITE, so Gary and company can get started on War in the Med![:D]




Beetle -> RE: Price of this game. (5/30/2010 7:02:20 PM)

I would be happy with $59.99 for ddl and $69.99 with physical delivery. If you get much more than that, it could become a tradeoff between $ and quantity sold.

Everything I have heard/read says that we still have an official unemployment rate of +/-10%, with an additional 7-9% underemployed/discouraged.  To paraphrase a well known political figure..."Its the economy stupid." [:D]



Neal_MLC -> RE: Price of this game. (5/30/2010 7:09:46 PM)

I think that selling game like this in one package is much more economical in the overall scheme of things. $60 for basic set then $25 for one expansion module and we are already at $85 for what should cost $80.  Sorry, I am for the one price - one package deal



Hard Sarge -> RE: Price of this game. (5/30/2010 7:57:23 PM)

you guys are something, the other forum, they are screaming and crying about the price of the game, and here you are almost giving them the green light to ask for the moon

but, so saying, the work that Jon and Andy and all of the others have done, not including the programmers, 80 bucks may be cheap

so, watch what you wish for, you may get it



jmlima -> RE: Price of this game. (5/30/2010 8:07:39 PM)

I forgot. My bet for price, based on recent Matrix releases $100 for DDL.





wodin -> RE: Price of this game. (5/30/2010 8:40:28 PM)

I will be shocked to see this game on sale for less than $80. I'm saving already as I know its a game I have to save for.



axisandallies -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 12:40:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

you guys are something, the other forum, they are screaming and crying about the price of the game, and here you are almost giving them the green light to ask for the moon

but, so saying, the work that Jon and Andy and all of the others have done, not including the programmers, 80 bucks may be cheap

so, watch what you wish for, you may get it


That other game that you talk about it a hard sell for me. $80 for one battle that is broken down in 27 parts......Yes the editor, I know big deal....make that a RTS....no thanks. This game however is about a war that the history of mankind will never see again(thank goodness). Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, WW2 the eastern front was the war, without it the Germans wouldn't have lost and I guess that's why I would pay for this game. This just is my point of view.....



wworld7 -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 3:17:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

I think $60 is tops for a PC game in this market/economy, Matrix needs to start breaking up their big expensive games, ($55-$60 base game) then release a ($20-$25 for the game editor/ scenario expansion pack). This way, the price isn't a deal breaker at release, and if people like it, they will buy the add-on(s) later. I hope they do this with War in the East, so we don't see another $80 game! Nobody really needs an editor on day one of a new release with a large complex game anyway.

Hurry up! release WITE, so Gary and company can get started on War in the Med![:D]




I would rather have it all up front day 1 as I dislike "needing" to buy expansions to get full enjoyment. I look forward to WITE and hope its price is under $100.00. But for WITE and MWIF I just want them to be finished, I'll fit them into my budget somehow.



janh -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 3:42:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge
you guys are something, the other forum, they are screaming and crying about the price of the game, and here you are almost giving them the green light to ask for the moon


It is all about delivering something that is worth it. With games like this one, or WITP/AE, or ARMA II for that matter (although more so for it enormous modding capabilities), you can easily get sucked in for 2-3 years without having to buy another title. For me, the effort you guys put into the AI might be the selling factor, beyond the other things. There will be things I will not like, such as the production and R&D that would be fun or a Europe map with other fronts, but the rest of the game so far looks very impressive. So if lots of good posts about the AI will pop here after you published, I will be in for sure.

Also you guys would surely win lots of long-term customers if you bugfix and add new content and functionality in future patches reliably. There are so many publishers that nowadays publish half-done games with brain-dead AI and incomplete features due to whatever reasons, on which I have wasted valuable $, that I am willing to pay more if I can be sure what I get is really well executed and contains the features I really care about.



SGHunt -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 4:38:23 PM)

CMBO was something when it shipped, wasn't it?   I know there were things needed doing after it was released, but it just blew me away - and then it turned East!!!!

As for price, I'm hooked already, so I guess I'm done for - rather like sterling.   I'll just have to lie to my wife [;)].  

I want the download AND the disc, so I can always reload, even if my computer explodes, AND a hard copy of a very detailed manual, so I can be reading up on Jon's S&T guide when I'm on the train home, or how to get the most out of my newly arrived STuG battalions - do they go up front to Division or sit with the Korps HQ,  hmmm?   I want patches and new scenarios of free, and I want the whole experience to last at least three years.    Then it will be cheap even if it costs £80, let alone $80.  

But we are already up for it - even if we have to save - and too high a price drives away those for whom the East is not the Holy Grail of military history and military gaming.   We can trust the Marketeers to do their segmentation and pricing mix, so the price won't be ridiculous.   I would be interested to know how many 'units' Matrix expect to sell?

Stuart



PyleDriver -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 4:40:13 PM)

Trust me guys, this isn't a game you'll play 3 times and put it on the shelve and have the wife dust it off. No its one where she comes in and says are you playing that damn game agian, thats all you do anymore...lol...



PyleDriver -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 5:05:54 PM)

Well there is a narrow market for wargames like us. Theres alot of new "got to see things happening kids" out there. So us old dogs need to support the old concept...Now this is just talk. But this engine could lead us to War in the West, then the mother of all games the War in Europe...So your support in buying this game will help our cause...



Berkut -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 6:07:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PyleDriver

Trust me guys, this isn't a game you'll play 3 times and put it on the shelve and have the wife dust it off. No its one where she comes in and says are you playing that damn game agian, thats all you do anymore...lol...



Yeah....see, the thing is, I've heard that before. I hope you are right, and if you are, then of course it is worth $80. But if this is another good game that I play several times, figure out how to beat, and the multiplay is just so-so, then it isn't worth $80, at least not to me, since I have a LOT of games I've paid for that I haven't even gotten to really playing yet.



Vasquez -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 6:21:43 PM)

Iam waiting for this one since over 10 years. Even 150 bucks are fine to me [X(]



wodin -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 7:33:33 PM)

Ostfront and WW1 are my obsessions. Any game covering them will have be grasping at the bit. Especially if I feel their going to be one of the best games covering that theatre\war.

The only reason why I wouldn't buy this game is if it had production in it...I really don't enjoy games that require you to deal with this side of things, the fact it isn't there makes the game a must buy for me. Hey thats covered in another thread though....



parusski -> RE: Price of this game. (5/31/2010 8:23:24 PM)

I am like wodin, obsessed with the east front. Sulasea I too would be willing to pay $90 + shipping. This is going to be the game of games for someone like me. I am about to have a stroke just waiting.



KarlXII -> RE: Price of this game. (6/1/2010 8:02:12 AM)

I don´t care about the price as much as a thick, printed manual to go with the game.



wodin -> RE: Price of this game. (6/1/2010 9:20:42 AM)

Thougt I'd copy and paste this..I posted it on the Bulge forum but its relevant here.

Just like to say that Elemental a game by stardock is being advertised (for the collectors edition) $79.99. This has me thinking that quality non console ports pc games are going to go up in price. The shrinking PC market may have something to do with it...I have a feeling that not only wargames but all PC games will be a niche market. The only cheap games I imagine will be online browser games.

Also something I forgot about was that new console games can cost £59.99. A price I balk at and made me happy I owend a PC, especially considering £59.99 for the latest FPS\Racing\Beat em up was and is a joke to me....(though I do want Red Dead)...how many FPS\Racing\Beat em ups do you need at £59.99 anyway. PC games have usually so much more to them and if it means buying less games, forgoing those not top of my list then so be it as I really don't want to see quality PC games die a death.



daft -> RE: Price of this game. (6/1/2010 1:14:48 PM)

I'm selfish in this regard. I want them to sell the game at an affordable price as long as they generate enough money to keep making games that I like and want to buy. I love wargames, but there certainly is a limit to what I will pay. I don't like feeling like a fool, and if I get priced out of a purchase I will not buy. That's it. The higher the price, the more reluctant I will be and I will do more research before I decide on whether it is worth or not. BftB put a dent in my wallet (a psychological dent, just to clarify) and I certainly deliberated a bit before getting. But I had the benefit of having done some beta testing on a while back, so I had tried it before I bought it.



Zovs -> RE: Price of this game. (6/1/2010 1:19:27 PM)

The board war gaming market has been a niche market for years and it's still going strong. I am still an active board war gamer, although I stopped purchasing other games and only concentrate on ASL (Advanced Squad Leader). I must say that besides my ASL collection I still have 230-240 board war games in my 'hidden boxes' (that is not see through plastic containers that my wife can't not see, lol). When I add in my ASL gear its back up to about 250-260 or something.

Back in the late 70s when I got into board war gaming (there was no PC gaming, except this game called pong back then) games ran from 5-10 bucks and the monsters were 20 to 40. Prices only went up slightly in the 80s but in the 90s they jumped up quite a bit. I think in 1999 DG (Decision Games, whom took over SPI titles) produced War in Europe II for $199.00. I think I got the Gamers DAK for $120.00 or $150 or something like that.

When I first started playing Squad Leader the basic game cost like 12.00 and then in 1985 when they produced ASL (a separate rules manual) the rules cost 35 and each module was like 20-35 bucks. Now-a-days, the rule book costs $80.00, Beyond Valor (which in 1987 was $30.00) is now $105.00. So it's a niche market and prices have gone up.

No biggy, it's just the way it is.



Theng -> RE: Price of this game. (6/1/2010 2:25:11 PM)

Well, guys... Lets look at it this way.... Gary, Joel, and gang has to be able to live of this game for at least a year if not two. Their loaded cost (taxes, health insurance, retirement, etc) is probably around $100,000 per year or slightly north of that. Say you have 5 folks working on the game (FT and FTEs - you got to include Matrix folks) you come out at least at $500,000 development cost for the game. If they expect 5,000 people to buy the game it's $100 per game. For $80, it needs 6,250 people to buy the game. You put in your number and come up with what you think is a reasonable figure.

Also, if you look at WitP at $80 in what 2002? Inflation adjusted that's $99.37 right now - http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/current-inflation-rates/

If Gary and the gang can't make a living of this there will be no additional wargames games anymore, but they will start programming for something else.



Aurelian -> RE: Price of this game. (6/1/2010 3:13:00 PM)


Beyond Valor at $105 is not the same Beyond Valor from 1987.

Don't really care about loaded costs, especially as it's all conjecture.

Price the game too high, and I'll stick with the free version.



Neal_MLC -> RE: Price of this game. (6/1/2010 5:09:24 PM)

I remember paying $50 each for SPI's War in the East and War in the West back in '78 and $15 for AH's Panzer Leader.

One thing that the price worryiers are over looking is that Matrix is experienced at wargame marketing and will price Wite appropriately. They know what they need to make in order to cover their expenses.

As a business consultant I in what thier pricing model is, any one know? and will share that info, seriously. 



MT Melon -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 1:03:55 AM)

The whole shrinking PC market thing - as Wodin mentioned - appears to be a "dance of death". The smaller the market the higher the Devs and Publishers have to set their prices......... the higher the prices the smaller the active buyers.......
the smaller the group of buyers the higher the prices...... continue on until our niche winks out of existence. I too will be one of the first day buyers of this fantastic looking game (although not at any price), but I have to say that there will come a time - if the prices of games continue to heat up - that I will not be able to justify handing over my money. That will be one sad day for this little boy I dare say. Inflation is really only good for tires [:D]



pompack -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 1:21:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


Beyond Valor at $105 is not the same Beyond Valor from 1987.

Don't really care about loaded costs, especially as it's all conjecture.

Price the game too high, and I'll stick with the free version.



[&:] Care to explain?



Zovs -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 2:32:58 AM)

I think he is meaning he will play ASL using the free VASL tool and not purchase any product from MMP or the third party companies. Basically, he is advocating stealing because he can't justify the cost for a game (or game system).

quote:

Beyond Valor at $105 is not the same Beyond Valor from 1987.


You are correct, there is far more bang for your buck now-a-days. 10 maps (instead of 4) 24 scenarios (instead of 10).

quote:

Price the game too high, and I'll stick with the free version.


So your advocate stealing intellectual property rights and putting business out of business because you don't want to pay for a game?

quote:

Don't really care about loaded costs, especially as it's all conjecture.


Really? I don't think your living in reality based on these 1987 prices and income, not conjecture but a fact that things change.

Cost of Living 1987 (How Much things cost in 1987)

  • Average Cost of new house $92,000.00
  • Average Income per year $24,350.00
  • Average Monthly Rent $395.00
  • Average Price for new car $10,3055.00
  • 1 gallon of gas 89 cents
  • 1 LB of Bacon $1.80
  • US Postage Stamp 24 cents
  • Dozen Eggs 65 cents

The cost of housing has more then doubled. I bought my house ten years ago for 160,000 it is now worth 220,000. I make more then double of what the average was in 1987 and my monthly mortgage is near 2k. My cars were both over 15-20k and we all know gas is near 3.00 per gallon.

No conjuncture here, just the fact that things change.




Aurelian -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 3:35:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: dlazov66

I think he is meaning he will play ASL using the free VASL tool and not purchase any product from MMP or the third party companies. Basically, he is advocating stealing because he can't justify the cost for a game (or game system).

quote:

Beyond Valor at $105 is not the same Beyond Valor from 1987.


You are correct, there is far more bang for your buck now-a-days. 10 maps (instead of 4) 24 scenarios (instead of 10).

quote:

Price the game too high, and I'll stick with the free version.


So your advocate stealing intellectual property rights and putting business out of business because you don't want to pay for a game?

quote:

Don't really care about loaded costs, especially as it's all conjecture.


Really? I don't think your living in reality based on these 1987 prices and income, not conjecture but a fact that things change.

Cost of Living 1987 (How Much things cost in 1987)

  • Average Cost of new house $92,000.00
  • Average Income per year $24,350.00
  • Average Monthly Rent $395.00
  • Average Price for new car $10,3055.00
  • 1 gallon of gas 89 cents
  • 1 LB of Bacon $1.80
  • US Postage Stamp 24 cents
  • Dozen Eggs 65 cents

The cost of housing has more then doubled. I bought my house ten years ago for 160,000 it is now worth 220,000. I make more then double of what the average was in 1987 and my monthly mortgage is near 2k. My cars were both over 15-20k and we all know gas is near 3.00 per gallon.

No conjuncture here, just the fact that things change.





My dear fellow.

1: When I go buy something, the farthest thing from my mind is what the person who made or sells it pays for health insurance, car insurance, mortage, tuition, etc. Maybe that prays on your mind, but I have more immediate and important concerns.

2: If you scroll down a bit, you'll see a game called War in Russia--Matrix Edition. Kindly think before you make any asinine and inflammatory accusations about piracy. (Perhaps, just so you can feel self righteous.........)

3: Thanks oh so much for the history lesson. Having been there, I never knew. Oh, by the way, BV now has much more than BV then. Here's another. The most expensive computer game I ever bought, outside of Witp and AE was Carriers at War for the C64. It cost, IIRC, $60. Now, $49.99, and better quality I'm sure. Explain that one if you wish.

4: Aneurysms can be so liberating.....



Zovs -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 4:18:26 AM)

Oh, sorry I thought you were talking about ASL and playing it for free which is a form of piracy.

The rest of your comments are not worth bothering about.



Fred98 -> RE: Price of this game. (6/2/2010 1:09:18 PM)

I wish people would use "USD" "EUR" "GBP" "CAD" "AUD" "JPY" or whatever in their posts so we know where we are.

What is the short name for Bolivian pesos ?



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