Road To Minsk (Full Version)

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Zaratoughda -> Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:05:59 AM)

Just a suggestion, when first starting out, particularly for those more disposed to play the Axis, might be a good idea to start out with Road to Minsk.

When I owned up to doing some shorter scenarios for Joel, I first needed to learn the game and, there wasn't a scenario short enough for that purpose (yeah, I hate tutorials), so I put Road to Minsk together specifically for that and, worked pretty well IMO.

Just a 3 turn scenario and you need to get all the elements going. Yeah, generally speaking you wipe out the Soviet air force on the ground and then proceed. When we were first playtesting this we were taking Minsk on the first turn, don't know if that is still possible or not.

If I were starting out I just might bring up this scenario and get it going AI vs AI, get a general feel for how things progress, and then handle it myself and do a better job of it.

You can let the computer handle the air war for you but, you can do better and, it's fun, once you understand how to handle it.

Oh, the other thing, developing a level of expertise in Road to Minsk before moving on, might mean it will be longer before you move on to other scenarios but, it will be worth it IMO, increasing your enjoyment of those scenarios simply because, you have a much better feel for what is going on to start with.

Yeah, was thinking of having a contest, see who can get the highest level of victory in this short scenario. Maybe that is something we can do down the line.

Zaratoughda



Flaviusx -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:27:18 AM)

Going to second this.

When Pieter and I joined the team, this was our first assignment: learn the game by playing Road to Minsk. It's the next logical step up from the tutorial.

It also remains to date the only time I have played the Axis. [:)] But even us staunch defenders of the Motherland should take a crack at this for educational purposes. (Although you will need to learn an entirely different set of skills to play the Sovs in the other 41 scenarios.)

Walt, it's basically impossible to take Minsk on turn 1 now. Hasty attacks on urban no longer fly, and you can't contrive to set up a deliberate assault. (Watch Andy come and prove me wrong on this, but he doesn't count.)

Usually the German can get right next to it, and it falls on turn 2.



56ajax -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 11:20:42 AM)

I was reading the thread Russian or German and as a complete novice I was going to say pick a short scenario, play the russian, a number of times, and over time try to get less clobbered. Know the enemy. Then I found what I consider to be similar and sound advice, as above. Perhaps this thread could be renamed to Novice Users play Road to Minsk as a tutorial.

Thx

JT



ComradeP -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 11:25:16 AM)

Flavio: Taking Minsk might be possible if one of the divisions in it is unlucky enough to join a nearby battle (one of the divisions is in reserve mode), that's the only possible situation where the Germans have a chance to take it, provided that some other nearby reserve units don't join the battle for Minsk. It's a really low chance, though.

You can pretty much forget about taking Riga on turn 1 in RtL or the 1941 campaign, though.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 12:03:15 PM)

You guys read my mind.  I looked at all the scenarios after doing the tutorial and saw a 3 turn scenario.  I said, "That's the scenario for me."

I screwed up my first turn with some of my panzers and motorized, but not all.  Still playing the first turn, though.  Created a huge pocket but also parked 3 or so divisions about 5 hexes from Minsk.  I had to get some sleep, though, and saved it and went to bed with the 1st turn still active. 

I have found that hasty attacks save you move allowances and I'm sure the tutorial probably mentioned that.  Less of a chance of rout or surrender, but it gives you more mobility.



ComradeP -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 12:09:09 PM)

Unready units fold rather quickly even from a hasty attack. Keep in mind that in the first turn, attacking is dirt cheap for the Axis in terms of MP's used per attack. One mistake to make as the Axis is to plan attacks in future turns with the first turn MP per attack cost in mind.



CheerfullyInsane -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 2:29:43 PM)

First turn got me one hex from Minsk (sooo tantalizingly close), but not in nearly enough strength to mount an assault.
Found one way that saves you MPs. Hasty attacks may not rout or shatter anyone, but using your second rank to force them to retreat makes the way ZOC free for the first rank. Usually gets them a hex or two further.

Not sure how to use the 'bottom' of the pocket. That is, the westernmost troops who are mainly there to ensure nobody runs away.
One part of me wants to start them up on Turn 1 with some overwhelming deliberate attacks just to clear the pocket that much sooner. But I'm not sure it isn't better to wait until the encirclement sets in altogether instead of suffering extra casualties....
Hmmm...Back to the drawing-board [:)]



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 5:42:09 PM)

Hi guys,

Doing this puppy now....testers do you ALWAYS 'Shift' and select airgroups when bombing or do you often just 'right click'?

Thanks



Terminus -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 5:45:15 PM)

Depends on the circumstances. For Axis airfield raids on Barbarossatag, you just pour it on. Later, when doing more selective air strikes, selecting the individual groups can be beneficial.



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 5:51:01 PM)

Thanks T



Terminus -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 5:52:15 PM)

If you're moving to pocket a lot of smaller enemy units, selecting your groups (so as to avoid overattacking) before striking them is a good tactic.



Swayin -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 5:52:39 PM)

I think I erred in leaping into Road to Smolensk first after the tut ... will restart tonight with Minsk.



Flaviusx -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 5:58:46 PM)

Road to Smolensk will teach you how to manage cross river assaults and involves a good deal more logistical management than Road to Minsk.

It's also a good scenario for budding Soviet players, as it gives them an opportunity to learn some of the basics of defensive play and restoring order from the chaos of the surprise attack.




ComradeP -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 6:00:21 PM)

quote:

Doing this puppy now....testers do you ALWAYS 'Shift' and select airgroups when bombing or do you often just 'right click'?


I never simply right click, I always manually select air groups.



Swayin -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 6:24:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx
It's also a good scenario for budding Soviet players, as it gives them an opportunity to learn some of the basics of defensive play and restoring order from the chaos of the surprise attack.


chaos indeed! I hope it will teach me to work magic as well, because I don't know how I'm going to stop those panzers ... :)



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:26:26 PM)

Assume this is fairly normal and I haven't done anything special? [;)] Didn't quite manage to take Minsk on the first 4 days....

[image]local://upfiles/4211/CCCB25D61964436A8DE73BC59F2CE3D5.jpg[/image]



Helpless -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:29:33 PM)

quote:

Assume this is fairly normal and I haven't done anything special? Didn't quite manage to take Minsk on the first 4 days....


You run one game as administrator.. just in case, there is no combat bonuses for that [;)]



Flaviusx -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:30:18 PM)

That's a nice pocket, Speedy. You did one very smart thing here off the bat and didn't chase the routed units out of the pocket (which happens sometimes if you move next to them, they can teleport out of a pocket.)

The only thing I'd do differently here is make sure you've got the whole thing locked down with zocs, there's a major gap between Panzer Group 2 and the infantry that theoretically could allow the Soviet to march through and reestablish supply. But as a practical matter on this surprise turn, not likely to happen. Something to watch for in the future, though, Soviets can exfiltrate out of pockets and reopen supply lines.

One more thing: don't leave your advanced headquarters sitting alone. If the Soviet marches next to them, they'll get displaced to your rear and mess up your logistics and command and control. Stack them with a combat unit near the front.



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:31:15 PM)

Eh? Sorry Helpless you've lost me?[&:]



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:33:43 PM)

Good point Flavius....with regard to the Soviets at the start will the majority of their units be routed/immobilised and stay that way or if they have supply and I've not attacked them will they be 'free' to move?



Helpless -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:34:41 PM)

quote:

Eh? Sorry Helpless you've lost me?


That was a joke Speedy.. :)

I meant this admin shield.



[image]local://upfiles/13846/D3E383E04605415DBB6C28C9A564A7B4.jpg[/image]



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:35:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:

Eh? Sorry Helpless you've lost me?


That was a joke Speedy.. :)

I meant this admin shield.



[image]local://upfiles/13846/D3E383E04605415DBB6C28C9A564A7B4.jpg[/image]


Ah got you....that's just the Game Menu screen [:)]



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:36:09 PM)

Flavius - thanks for HQ tip



Flaviusx -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:36:38 PM)

The units are free to move, but probably will not recover from their routed status on this turn. Routed units cannot march into enemy held terrain.

Also, the surprise turn affects Soviet movement rates and they won't be able to march as far as in an ordinary turn.



Sabre21 -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:38:40 PM)

Speedy..a couple pointers here using your own screenshot.

First don't leave your Hq's (in yellow) in a hex by themselves so close to enemy units. If he moves adjacent to them, they will displace losing all of their mp's and on hand supplies for that next turn.

Next be watchful for getting too extended without flank protection. On turn 1 it isn't as critical since you have enough fuel for 2 turns, but a good Soviet player will do what they can to cut your supply lines by isolating your spearheads. The red arrows indicate where this could occur. Enemy units can always move 1 hes even if isolated so watch for that. Also in this ss it would be easy to reconnect the supply lines to those trapped Soviets making it harder for you to kill them next turn.

Andy

[image]local://upfiles/3042/86CD677CC7C148418082EF1A09454CDE.jpg[/image]



Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:42:02 PM)

Thanks Andy. Good to know and learn [:)] Hopefully my Mark II play of this scenario will see an improved effort!



Flaviusx -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:47:31 PM)

If you need more units to cover these gaps, you can break down some of your divisions into regiments, btw. This can be chancy in later turns and invite counterattacks, but it's pretty safe to do so on the surprise turn.




Speedysteve -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:49:43 PM)

Great idea. Thanks. This is a great scenario to learn on as Axis



ComradeP -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:56:03 PM)

Andy, keep in mind that the Soviets lose control over any isolated hexes not next to one of their units, which makes it impossible for them to reestablish supply in the area north of 2nd Panzer group, but they might be able to reestablish supply through the swamps as you've indicated, although not using the path you're indicating, but like this (I've done it against the AI a few times, which also left the area wide open):

[image]local://upfiles/32881/5DA14A00234741C996BE3F5F5E0C0ECF.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Road To Minsk (12/8/2010 7:58:42 PM)

Pieter, that will depend on whether or not those routed units recover; they can't march into enemy held terrain in routed condition.

Speedy might actually be able to get away with this opening move as a result, but yeah, best not to take these sorts of chances.




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