RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (Full Version)

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Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 7:51:52 AM)

Another general bites the dust as of turn#5

[image]local://upfiles/19413/D9454E55150E46C9852B7580459A963E.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 7:52:35 AM)

Seriously though, you can move east faster than the Axis can repair the rail lines; making a defensive line only 3 or 4 hexes from the first turn is too close.

Against the computer I made a line behind the Goryn and Zbruch rivers; i'm about 17 turns into the game and the computer is threatening to slowly cut off the rear, along the Dnepr as it runs southeast.

Your forces north of the marshes are not as good as the ones south of it.  Trying a line at the Berezina is hard to form a full line before it gets hit.  It might be better to try it at the Drut or even Dnepr, extending to Vitebsk, then either north to Velikie Luki or north east.

Are you using command points to create construction batallions for your lower HQs?  Apparently it's a good use of the points.  They help build fort levels while avoiding getting killed.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 7:57:22 AM)

Here you go,dead unit count as of turn#5:

looks bad,feels worse but surrender? And deprive Mosses of marching into Moscow? Plenty of soviet divisions are still on the way. And Axis supply lines inch forward only so fast.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/DF4B8F841EF0494EB51CF0D757990F3B.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 7:59:09 AM)

Ok then, you haven't been hurt as badly as I would expect.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 8:03:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Seriously though, you can move east faster than the Axis can repair the rail lines; making a defensive line only 3 or 4 hexes from the first turn is too close.

Against the computer I made a line behind the Goryn and Zbruch rivers; i'm about 17 turns into the game and the computer is threatening to slowly cut off the rear, along the Dnepr as it runs southeast.

Your forces north of the marshes are not as good as the ones south of it.  Trying a line at the Berezina is hard to form a full line before it gets hit.  It might be better to try it at the Drut or even Dnepr, extending to Vitebsk, then either north to Velikie Luki or north east.

Are you using command points to create construction battalions for your lower HQs?  Apparently it's a good use of the points.  They help build fort levels while avoiding getting killed.



I have a great many command points and so far have not used them to good effect. the general i put in command of a dashing armor corps is now in a pocket.

As regards construction battalions,yes i am going to build some this turn unless building some other kind of engineer unit is shown more practical.

It's also 3am in the morning and i need time tomorrow to see what is what. Also by then some of the soviet brain trust may have chimed in with suggestions. Until then i am seeing how fast i can extricate myself and how much I can pull away.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 8:08:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Ok then, you haven't been hurt as badly as I would expect.


Thats the thinking I was guilty of.when i saw my turn 4 losses I got cocky..turn#5 he's across a major river just south of Smolensk. Across the river south of Pskov threatening Leningrad or over the top at Rzhev Moscow. He's pocketed most of my south central front west of Vinnitsa.

I'm on my way back east......

But thank you for the encouraging words..[&o] [:D]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 8:11:17 AM)

Then there is the RED AirForce vs the Luftwaffe

[image]local://upfiles/19413/AA119455C0E34350A8C27AFB99035B68.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 8:28:13 AM)

Figuring you lost maybe 5k planes on the first turn, that leaves a lot of planes you kept on the battlefield.

Against the computer I sent everything to the national reserve immediately, brought some back a few turns later to try to fight recon planes ( not working out so well ), then i've put a bunch of planes up north and a few ahead of a strung out breakthough near Poltava.

The reserve will get morale up nicely for air units in a few months, around 70+; not sure how much it helps.

I try to keep air unit placement at least 10 hexes ahead of Axis ground units, maybe around 20 or even 30; that prevents lots of planes from attacking you, but you can take little slaps at weaker spearhead units.




Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 8:43:54 AM)

I had seen the mass exodus of Red aircraft to the national reserve as a gamey tactic,but after the drubbing I've taken i am reconsidering that. I have let the "ai" handle air ops.other than some resupply missions,recon and tac bombing ops.

This will be a very decisive turn,then again the next several will unless his spearheads are low on supplies.



randallw -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/27/2010 9:49:11 AM)

Withdrawing an air force is a tactic that does happen in real life, such as when American planes fled the Phillipines after getting pounded on for a few days when the war began.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 2:13:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Withdrawing an air force is a tactic that does happen in real life, such as when American planes fled the Phillipines after getting pounded on for a few days when the war began.


Indeed,however a number of my Red Airforce formations are away from the front. they are in areas where his fast mobile forces can reach,but sadly for the Luftwaffe tac air might be out of range..... At least that is my current cunning plan.

Followed by armaments and heavy industry about to be over-run.......EASTWARD HO!



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 2:23:29 AM)

Do I build a line of fortified zones at the Finnish attack boundary as the Reds? I want my current shell divisions to fill-out as fast as possible,so will creating fortified zones delay my combat ready divisional rollout? And by how much?



randallw -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 3:01:58 AM)

Some of the game testers feel that fort units are not worth it.



ComradeP -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 12:28:29 PM)

Tophat: if you still have enough of them, I'd suggest simply railing the NKVD regiments to the no attack line. If you place fortified regions there, you'll have to disband them again when you want to attack in order to get the maximum amount of firepower at the border.

quote:

I hit Lehr with infantry that was adjacent,first attacks failed. I pulled those 2 infantry divs out,plugged in 2 fresh Infantry Div and sent him retreating. I moved an armored corps in(2 armor divs and a mobile dive)they didn't have enough movement to attack. So didin't widen the salient or have room to put in another div to complete the isolation move.


It would've been better to hit it with units from the rear, say those around Vitebsk, instead of with units at the front, so the units at the front would then be able to move into the hex and attack it again, depending on whether it retreat south or west.

I'd also say you're doing a reasonably good job thus far. You can take extreme losses, he can't. His Luftwaffe losses are pretty huge and entirely unsustainable.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 1:44:36 PM)

Thanks ComradeP for the encouragement! I hope to do some magic and create another line,there will be gaps at this point. I'll keep motorized/mech and cavalry divisions behind the front to fill the gaps.

I have created "NO" new units so far...trying to get my infantry divisions to fill-out ASAP!

I also allow the Soviet "AI" to run my air-force. I have run and will again run recon missions and resupply drops.

Very good idea about those NKVD rgts,i tend to think they amount to a roadblock,but seems it is much,much less than that.

Keep the comments coming.



ComradeP -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 2:05:57 PM)

As the Soviet player, there are two main things you have to keep in mind in the early, difficult turns:

-No matter what happens, you can never lose the game in 1941.
-No matter how many men your opponent kills or captures, your army will balloon in size during the autumn mud, winter and spring mud turns.

Any Axis player who thinks he can win in 1941 or destroy the Soviet army sets himself up for a big disappointment and follows a totally flawed strategy if the entire plan is to destroy the Soviet army. My plan is very different, but of course I'm not going to detail that in the open.

The NKVD regiments are nice roadblocks due to their initial morale, as they tend to retreat when attacked instead of implode and rout like the majority of the Soviet units early on. When their morale drops, they're just as likely to rout as other units, with the caveat that they have a chance to disband when routed. On the no attack line, they won't be attacked. You could also simply attach all of them to STAVKA and free up an army HQ in the process. The only thing the NKVD regiments have to do is sit in their hex to block the Finns until you want to attack the Finns. Of course, if the enemy captures Leningrad you'll have to put more credible units in the area.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 2:29:14 PM)

What kind of fort lvls in Leningrad and the hexes around Leningrad do you shoot for?

Do you place many AA battalions or regiments in city hexes to make things tougher on the German Luftwaffe?\

I plan on assigning sapper support batts to every division in Leningrad or should I forget that and assign artillery?



ComradeP -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 2:50:52 PM)

I don't place any AA units in cities (but won't buy out those already in cities), they're much more useful in regular HQ's. Bombing ground units isn't very effective in most cases and bombing units in cities will just lead to high losses due to AA fire so I'd strongly advise against doing so as the Axis. If Moses does so, he'll just lose lots of aircraft from operational damage for little to no gain.

Getting the forts in Leningrad to level 3 or 4 is the minimum if you want to hold the Germans. I'm not sure if Leningrad can be captured by brute force when good forts are present.

I'm assuming you mean 1 sapper battalion or 1 artillery regiment for every division assigned to a HQ, as you can't assign support units to divisions. How much you assign to each HQ depends on the number of HQ's in the area. The higher the density, the fewer support units are assigned per HQ. Some artillery and some sapper regiments should do. The support units mostly even out anything the Germans bring, aside from that they're not much of a force multiplier.




karonagames -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 3:00:01 PM)

The defence of Leningrad is a race against the clock, as a good Axis player can be at the gates of Leningrad in less than 8 turns, so you have to be building a defence line that protects Leningrad's supply lines from turn 2 onwards, to stand any chance of getting lvl4s by the time the Axis arrive. Hexes 83,16 , 83,17 and 82,17 guard the port on the West bank of Lake Ladoga. In my test Pbem with Trey (el hefe) he failed to fortify here, and allowed me to cross the river, get the port, and isolate Leningrad by Turn 13.

83,18 ,84,18 , 84,19 and 85,19 have the main rail line into the city, and should be held for as long as possible.

If your support units can match the Axis support units, then Leningrad can put up a good fight. Upping the AAA will help too, as a good proportion of Axis air losses are from Flak.




Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 3:54:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ComradeP

I don't place any AA units in cities (but won't buy out those already in cities), they're much more useful in regular HQ's. Bombing ground units isn't very effective in most cases and bombing units in cities will just lead to high losses due to AA fire so I'd strongly advise against doing so as the Axis. If Moses does so, he'll just lose lots of aircraft from operational damage for little to no gain.

Getting the forts in Leningrad to level 3 or 4 is the minimum if you want to hold the Germans. I'm not sure if Leningrad can be captured by brute force when good forts are present.

I'm assuming you mean 1 sapper battalion or 1 artillery regiment for every division assigned to a HQ, as you can't assign support units to divisions. How much you assign to each HQ depends on the number of HQ's in the area. The higher the density, the fewer support units are assigned per HQ. Some artillery and some sapper regiments should do. The support units mostly even out anything the Germans bring, aside from that they're not much of a force multiplier.





Sorry i had meant assigning support units to Hq.I keep referring/thinking direct divisional support,I know that is for the German player.
Forts,Forts and FORTS!



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 3:56:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

The defence of Leningrad is a race against the clock, as a good Axis player can be at the gates of Leningrad in less than 8 turns, so you have to be building a defence line that protects Leningrad's supply lines from turn 2 onwards, to stand any chance of getting lvl4s by the time the Axis arrive. Hexes 83,16 , 83,17 and 82,17 guard the port on the West bank of Lake Ladoga. In my test Pbem with Trey (el hefe) he failed to fortify here, and allowed me to cross the river, get the port, and isolate Leningrad by Turn 13.

83,18 ,84,18 , 84,19 and 85,19 have the main rail line into the city, and should be held for as long as possible.

If your support units can match the Axis support units, then Leningrad can put up a good fight. Upping the AAA will help too, as a good proportion of Axis air losses are from Flak.




Excellent! Those 4 hexes get fort building priority. Might be time to start looking at mobilizing the city populace.

I'm going to gamble and move other threatened industry in the south and central areas before i move Leningrad's.



Grotius -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 4:34:11 PM)

Great AAR!

Er, could I ask a couple newb questons? Which units should be building the forts at Leningrad? Once they start building, they'll keep going even after the fort level increases by one, right? Forts are "fortified regions" for which you're charged Admin Points, right?



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:12:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Great AAR!

Er, could I ask a couple newb questons? Which units should be building the forts at Leningrad? Once they start building, they'll keep going even after the fort level increases by one, right? Forts are "fortified regions" for which you're charged Admin Points, right?


Yes and No........

I moved a naval bgde and 2 Rifle divisions into these hexes: 83,18....83,17.....82,17 They will start building fortifications at no admin point cost.

I could build a fortified region....at admin point cost in any of those hexes. But it drains equipment from my forming divisions,costs Admin points and "IS static". So i'd have to disband it to get it out of that hex. Currently I plan to put rifle divisions or brigades in those hexes.....they are mobile and my preference.

If i have misconstrued something please any and all feel free to correct me..

I think I am a bit too pic heavy and thought content/explanation light but it seems to be the way of things so far.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:20:10 PM)

I intend to fall back before the Finn's,perhaps not fast enough but I still have units frozen and a decent river line in the north.

My intent is to garrison those hexes on the Finn "NO-GO Line" with NKVD rgts as was suggested to me. Reasons:

1) I need all rifle divisions active against the GERMANS!

2) If I build fortified regions it costs admin points and they need to be disbanded before I can get maximum combat unit density in those hexes to go over to the attack!

3) It's a bloody border/zone and the lousy NKVD pukes are flippin BORDERGUARDS.....so they are naturals.



[image]local://upfiles/19413/022C75E2C35245D3B24517E6D527B4CB.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:25:57 PM)

Well thanks to my STAVKA play-tester WITE support group I have some specific targets to fortify:

Hexes: 83,16......83,17......82,17

I had been fortifying the high ground south of Leningrad,where i will still start fighting but I need to keep a supply route open and wait for Mud and winter to school the Reich!

[image]local://upfiles/19413/BAB4E82D3DBB43CF86BE1DB3D8A48813.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:30:36 PM)

Since moses is taking his time going for Leningrad(famous last words)I have not committed as many divisions as I was intending here. Basically things went to hell southwest of Smolensk and Leningrad got shafted after I allowed 6 divisions to get pocketed around Mogilev.

So if the line is sparse south of the Pskov region......geography and lack of Landers pushing me is the reason.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/8EAB02921D4845E283537B7457830F9F.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:33:05 PM)


The Hun's haven't pressed this area so I may have somewhat short changed this front,but I really needed the boys elsewhere!

Comments on my dispositions?

[image]local://upfiles/19413/0B6D8FD6D7064959A1E109883BB49E06.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:41:00 PM)


Yes sports Fans here is where the game is on! Too bad right now Big Red is points behind but we are only in the first quarter of game one! Alright,enough hokey sports analogies...sheesh!

Yea,I messed-up. I failed to cut off his bridgehead last turn and decided not to compound matters with more fruitless attacks so we fall back.

On the plus side of the equation i have more divisions fill-out and on the way to the front!

Keep in mind those words of ComradeP: "The Reds cannot loose the war in 41' nor can the German win it in 41'"

That has been running through my head all afternoon.

BLurking beware!! ComradeP has given me some strategic clarity when I am the Bosch in our Campaign Game!

[image]local://upfiles/19413/2B6FB21045454086B805FF577CF09EAE.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:43:57 PM)


The marshes are somewhat akin to flypaper and for the moment I have some boys stuck there. I really want moses to have to send decent Hun formations into this bog after me.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/82B334BDEE88482CA3DDEA71C3736844.jpg[/image]



Tophat1815 -> RE: Tophat1812(REDS) vs Moses(Krauts and friends) (12/28/2010 8:46:58 PM)

This isn't real pretty but we are falling back with some order and under command. Still trying to delay as we can,I really want him to waste into August readying himself to leap forward again!

All industry moved out of Kiev and those cites west of Y.Bug river.

[image]local://upfiles/19413/C42291F034D741C2905011303364A2B8.jpg[/image]



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