RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (Full Version)

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PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/3/2011 9:21:35 PM)

No way. Play the game while swimming three miles, running a marathon, and biking 100 miles? You gotta be kidding!



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/3/2011 10:07:53 PM)

The North

Army Group North lost all its tanks and had the unenviable task of defending out in the boonies, initially pretty far from supply (though just in supply). The 16th and 9th Armies were roughed up by the weather and attacks, but due to my desire to hold Moscow they were issued "PDH Order number 52.37" - the famous Hold Fast order.

They did pretty well, all in all, but they ended up hurting by the end (quite a few unready still). The higher CVs in the picture reflect either late arriving reinforcements that I was loathe to take out of the cities, or units from those armies that wintered the first two months in level 4 towns or the cities.

In the end, the line was mostly held, maybe 40 miles lost total. But these poor bastards are hurting.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/ACFA3456971D4BDF8F0F0C1440234457.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/3/2011 11:41:29 PM)

When the mud hits I will post my end lines for the winter of 1941-42. I really can't be arsed to do a comparison of the front lines, so I won't. However, I will pretend that it all went to plan.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/4/2011 1:22:36 AM)

One last bit here. This is the shot of the unit that made it out of the blizzard the best. It was on the front lines the entire time. However, it did spend all of December in a lvl 4 town. Don't let anyone fool you, those dots can be a godsend.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/E75F7A3B9B13439E94AA324737C169BE.gif[/image]



jjdenver -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/4/2011 8:31:32 PM)

What is really interesting in this AAR is how low SU manpower is in the turn 37 OOB screenshot - 4.3MM SU vs 3.2MM GE manpower. I wonder if SU manpower is so low because the Germans were able to take and hold a lot of major manpower centres: Moscow, Leningrad, Stalino, Kharkov, etc.



Altaris -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/4/2011 8:44:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jjdenver

What is really interesting in this AAR is how low SU manpower is in the turn 37 OOB screenshot - 4.3MM SU vs 3.2MM GE manpower. I wonder if SU manpower is so low because the Germans were able to take and hold a lot of major manpower centres: Moscow, Leningrad, Stalino, Kharkov, etc.


I think you're right on the money here. Keeping those big MP centers out of Soviet hands as much as possible in 1941/1942 is going to really hamper the Soviets manpower. They will have just lost all those really good multipliers in teh first two years of war. This has the potential of being the final game decider, IMO.

PDA, since you've already got the two biggest prizes in Leningrad and Moscow, I'd say spend 1942 pushing your lines forward and overrunning as much manpower as you can!



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 12:37:07 AM)

I think a larger factor is that I managed to savage some armaments industries. Even with Cpt Flam lowering his usage, there are just large manpower pools for him.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 4:57:55 AM)

Snow attacks.

Turn 2 of the spring snow allows me (under the house rules) to attack with two army groups. Forgoing the weak and puny lads in AGN, AGC joins in south to play.

While there are also two Panzer groups here (3,4) the presense off all those nasty Soviets who tried to take Moscow makes it harder. Add in the fact that they managed to entrench in the blizzard and I am feeling a bit puny. Still, it was time to take out the "panzer bludgeon" here.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/C184A5C07E2A4370B0C8CBA3A9DC9C77.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 5:04:24 AM)

In the south it is a bit easier going, but the movement penalties and the quirks of the game - the Soviets are allowed to defend! (I shall bring this up on the main forum with a strongly worded post complete with all caps and bold type).

Fatigue and not fully recovered in terms of TOE panzers show that they will be lucky to advance all 4 turns. Still, the pocket in the south yielded about 80,000 prisoners.



[image]local://upfiles/23503/32AAE0340F414064A2102E4F9EF4B674.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 5:08:02 AM)

The 17th Panzer, with its 1 T-26 (currently damaged due to the fact that basic design sucks by 1942), is in the front lines. The commander has asked for some of my T-34s tanks that have been captured, but I think that my plan to convert them into all-terrain winnebagos is more practical. He gets nothing!


[image]local://upfiles/23503/90F912B1E3734E5188598D09B49EC7E8.gif[/image]



Mynok -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 5:14:47 AM)


T-26s were trash when they were designed....1877 I believe. [:D]



randallw -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 5:24:38 AM)

At least that crew is only 26% fatigued.



Klydon -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 5:30:36 AM)

Guess a broken T-26 is not that hard for the crew to drag along. 



krupp_88mm -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 5:44:21 AM)

quote:

T-26s were trash when they were designed


but a t-26 is 1/2 a t-52!

[image]http://www.aviationshop.co.za/product_images/TRUMP00376large.jpg[/image]



Josh -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 10:48:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

At least that crew is only 26% fatigued.


That's what I've noticed too, must be a comfy ride. [:)]



Encircled -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 10:28:08 PM)

Every army has its banners

Why not a relic from Borodino?



Q-Ball -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/5/2011 10:50:01 PM)

Was a T-26 any worse than a Panzer II? The 45mm gun was a better AT gun than anything the Germans mounted on a tank until the Panzer IIIj. Not that they're great, just sayin...



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:02:38 AM)

I think the T-26 was quite good in its day (it had a good reputation in Spain), and in the end it had sloped turret armor and its gun was good for a lighter tank. It was just long in the tooth in 1941, being basically just an updated Vickers tank, and there wasn't much that could be done. Add in either an atrocious radio or (more likely) no working radio and you get problems...



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:12:53 AM)

Snow continues

With the snow comes the German rebound, and often a good rebound can lead to an outlet pass and maybe a quick layup. Unfortunately for my basketball metaphor, I get the rebound but then I turn it over because I can't dribble.

In any case, my two panzer thrusts continue, and though I pocket no troops this turn I do manage to get closer to my goal, though there is only one turn left.

Here is the Moscow region. Along with the crossing of the Oka I begin to clear out the hexes around the city.



[image]local://upfiles/23503/F7EFBD32EF8B48CD95A4CA892C0978EC.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:14:22 AM)

In the south, the pocket has been reduced, and the tanks of 1st and 2nd Panzer Groups roll on. Admittedly, slowed by the snow and the basic fact that some of the tank divisions wish they had some T-26s, it is not as good as hoped. Still, progress is made.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/27D37836865E41C0B74140D7203525C9.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:16:07 AM)

Lastly, the Stalino front. Here the rebounding German infantry show they still have some muscle. They blow through 3 solid level 3 forts manned by good troops. While this does nothing more than to show that the infantry is still to be feared, it serves a purpose.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/352691906C6F4EC181EDB6CE75CFD9D9.gif[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:18:06 AM)

All in all, the 3 of 4 snow turns have been good. I created a pocket of perhaps 70-80k troops, and I have disrupted the lines for the mud and coming clear seasons. Furthermore, in the north the Oka will not be a barrier to advances should I choose to do so here. It is clear the panzers are not full strength, but a couple months on the railheads will solve a lot of problems.



IdahoNYer -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 5:16:42 AM)

You really have done well! Looks like your in great shape for a "knockout blow" for the summer '42 campaign.

Still thinking of a southern focused attack?



color -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 1:39:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

Oh, and Color? I wasn't totally faithful to your Rubberband notion. But note this, for what it is worth. The 2nd Army and the 6th Army in the Big Empty Middle followed this the most, and they had a far larger "bounce back" of CV than did the 16th and 9th Armies in the north that held the line.


Haven't been on the forums for a while, but that sounds like good news.
The tactic has it's place and time, although I think it might die a quick death with v 1.04, which seems like it will drastically lower damaged elements from blizzard.
Would you say your human opponent made an effort to just infiltrate between your holes in the first line and not attack, trying to trap them for next turn, or did he just do the shovel tactics ? (but failed short of deliberate attacks on the second line)



Ketza -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:11:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

I think the T-26 was quite good in its day (it had a good reputation in Spain), and in the end it had sloped turret armor and its gun was good for a lighter tank. It was just long in the tooth in 1941, being basically just an updated Vickers tank, and there wasn't much that could be done. Add in either an atrocious radio or (more likely) no working radio and you get problems...


Only 1 in 10 Soviet tanks had radios. They communicated with flags during battle for the most part.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:29:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: color
Haven't been on the forums for a while, but that sounds like good news.
The tactic has it's place and time, although I think it might die a quick death with v 1.04, which seems like it will drastically lower damaged elements from blizzard.
Would you say your human opponent made an effort to just infiltrate between your holes in the first line and not attack, trying to trap them for next turn, or did he just do the shovel tactics ? (but failed short of deliberate attacks on the second line)


Actually, he tried both. There were turns where I had to extract a unit only one hex (and thus not have the open hex between my lines and his), and he also focused attacks when he could on the front unit. I think that now, and you are right about 1.04 it may well be a whole new affair, given enough space to pull back steadily, it helps a lot.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:30:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer

You really have done well! Looks like your in great shape for a "knockout blow" for the summer '42 campaign.

Still thinking of a southern focused attack?


I have no idea what in the heck I will do when it clears in 1942. Maybe I will go all out for Siberia.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 2:32:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

I think the T-26 was quite good in its day (it had a good reputation in Spain), and in the end it had sloped turret armor and its gun was good for a lighter tank. It was just long in the tooth in 1941, being basically just an updated Vickers tank, and there wasn't much that could be done. Add in either an atrocious radio or (more likely) no working radio and you get problems...


Only 1 in 10 Soviet tanks had radios. They communicated with flags during battle for the most part.

Indeed, the coordination problems early on led to a lot problems. This is why it is not so good comparing the base tank, but how it was used at the time. A well led and organized (and in communication) unit of "inferior" tanks could do far more than "better" tanks driven into swamps because nobody knows the way and can't communicate.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 6:52:21 PM)

The last of the snow, and it is a good thing too.

After all the whining and crying about "it is too cold" and "all the soldiers are dying of frostbite" you would think the Germans would have done better in the snow turns. Turns out I have an army of slackers. The first turn saw my encirclement, the rest of the turns just were set ups. I dislike straight lines, and so I made sure there were some good salients for the real warmer weather.

Despite the looks of the picture, I was not trying to encircle the center of the soviet lines, instead my plan was territory and to cross major rivers before the ice melted. Rail lines cross the Oka and Don at the places I crossed, and by summer they will be full supply little islands of happiness that will cause the German army to bleed white trying to break out.

I have decided to attack everywhere in 1942, screw low manpower and the rest.

In the next turns I will post the boring stats again.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/E54ED18C3CC34EE68BCF178024CB8531.jpg[/image]



kirkgregerson -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (4/6/2011 11:19:28 PM)

Does anybody have a clue as to what Capt Flam's strategy is? Trying to understand what he is trying to accomplish. Could be he doesn't really have a 'big picture' strategy? I understand it's a game and some people take it a lot more serious as far as planning turns and such. Nothing wrong with just playing to play. Of course, given this approach you'll probably get your ass kicked in most games against people that have good planning and execution. Maybe he's from the camp that believes "having NO strategy is having A strategy".

Just like Bruce Lee's comment about "The Art of Fighting without Fighting".

[sm=00000030.gif]



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