RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (Full Version)

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76mm -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 3:19:57 PM)

Moscow is indeed fairly nasty in the Winter, summer is much much nicer!

I have to say that your AAR is a depressing read for a Sov player...



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 3:22:29 PM)

I try to lighten the atmosphere! More "take my wife please!" jokes needed?



Manstein63 -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 4:33:25 PM)

Remind me never to play against you as I don't think my ego could take it. A true master at work[&o]. However I do have some sympathy with your opponent as must be wondering what the hell has happened.
Manstein63



jzardos -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 4:46:01 PM)

How did this game get so out of hand for the Soviet player? From what I can tell it's just a result of a huge discrepancy in skill levels. No offense here, but I haven't seen any brilliance from the Soviet player as I've seen in some other AARs. I would be in the same Soviet situation as I'm new to game as well. So when Moscow is taken does that give a auto victory for axis? Maybe the Soviet player can surrender at any time? I'd like to see how PeeDeeAitch would fair against a skilled Soviet opponent. Once again, not trying to offend anybody as just my observations.




krupp_88mm -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 5:02:19 PM)

i don't care what the historians say or the game models, if Moscow Leningrad and Sevastopol fell in 1941 the war fro Russia would be lost



76mm -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 5:14:19 PM)

The defender had better booby-trap Moscow ASAP so that PDH is too skeered to enter. Worked against Hitler at Leningrad from what I hear...



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 5:32:54 PM)

I don't think Moscow is going to fall, it would take a lot of resources that I don't have. However, the threat that it will fall opens up other regions for me.



jzardos -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 6:10:55 PM)

Will the game end when Moscow - Leningrad - Sevastopol is in axis hands?

I though I remember something about auto victory?



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 6:18:35 PM)

Nope, if I were to take Moscow I would be about 3/4 of the way to auto-victory in points, I think.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/17/2011 11:44:54 PM)

Turn 15 sent, and now the wait.  I have a cunning plan for winter, but I need to advance my lines about 1200 miles to the east for it to be totally practical.  The devil is in the details.  Failing that I plan a two-part winter plan: 1) Take massive losses as I try to hold everywhere, and 2) Retreat back to the Oder.

I think that if I phase from part 1 to part 2 I shall be able to weather the upcoming storm.



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 12:27:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Manstein63

Remind me never to play against you as I don't think my ego could take it. A true master at work[&o]. However I do have some sympathy with your opponent as must be wondering what the hell has happened.
Manstein63


I don't think I am a master, but the second part of this is what I strive to do as the German player - leave my opponent wondering what I will do, threatening one location then driving to another, deep drives that leave him saying "bloody hell" when he opens the turn. That is what playing the germans is for me.

By turn 15 my tanks are depleted, my units tired, I will likely be pushed around in Winter - but I have caused more than historic casualties, I have taken Leningrad, I have marched to the edge of Moscow before mud...all in all I did what I set out to do - now I just need to survive for 3.5 more years!



Manny111 -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 2:26:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: krupp_88mm

i don't care what the historians say or the game models, if Moscow Leningrad and Sevastopol fell in 1941 the war fro Russia would be lost


I'm gonna write Logan11, my current game opponent and propose your idea as modified victory conditions, Krupp.[;)]

I wonder what he will think about that?[;)]
---


Sorry for hijack.[;)]




randallw -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 2:53:25 AM)

Let's see if the wife is impressed by how well this Envelope Game is going. [:D]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 2:57:37 AM)

This thread started as a hijack of myself, no worries.  However, I don't see any realistic chance of victory in 1941 based on the actual events, participants, and actions...



Aurelian -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 3:04:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Moscow is indeed fairly nasty in the Winter, summer is much much nicer!

I have to say that your AAR is a depressing read for a Sov player...


If I was writing one, it would be equally so.....[:)]



cpt flam -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 12:57:15 PM)

I will probably surprise some
but for me game isn't finish yet![:D]
winter will probably be bloody during snow again [:'(]
but all is not loss
if I can reform a "real" army will follow the advise to limit attack during blizzard



Encircled -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 2:16:47 PM)

Hit him very, very, very, very hard during the winter

Its the big leveller



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 3:22:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

Hit him very, very, very, very hard during the winter

Its the big leveller


Hey now! That just seems unfair! Well, not really - I expect to be hit hard and left out to dry, but you don't have to have such a sound of happiness in your voice...



cpt flam -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 7:38:35 PM)

glad to see you are there PDH



Encircled -> RE: Panzer Bubbles - A Study of the Mis-Employment of Armor (3/18/2011 7:41:17 PM)

I am now a player of the evil communist dictatorship, so waiting to see my comrades kick Nazi ass in the winter is worth a Dr Evil type MWWWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAAHAA



PeeDeeAitch -> Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 5:59:23 PM)

(Thanks Encircled for the title!)

Turn 17. I want to run around and smash things every turn, but sadly the "designers" had to put "weather" in this "game" making me play historically. Rubbish, I say, rubbish. Still, I suppose it is too late to quit, so I play out this last turn of fair weather and gird my loins (I am not sure what that is, but Dante did it) and make ready for the unfun turns.

The turns before mud are dicey, I can't just go turtle, this is the time the Soviets are the most hurt they will ever be - their divisions are staffed by untrained louts and clerks by this time, and the appearance of brigades along the line means that the barrel is being scraped. Still, by blizzard these louts will be 12 feet tall and screaming for vengeance just because I have conquered and brutalized a fair portion of their country. Shame really.

I did not slow down before the weather, instead I pushed. The 1st and 2nd Panzer Groups were blown after the Stalino dash and subsequent Azov pocket, so they can just move slowly. However, the freed up 4th Panzer and 3rd Panzer (who rested after Smolensk) hammered the outskirts of Moscow. 18th Army moved south (too damn slowly...) but would be ready to help out before mud.

The major cities south of Moscow would all be threatened, and any that fell would be gravy for me. North of Moscow the Finns began to march, and the 16th and 9th Armies would press on. Each hex gained was one more I could lose in the blizzard.

Here is the North at the end of clear weather. Say goodbye to advanced, boys, they are about done.



[image]local://upfiles/23503/7AABE60360374A909D94AA9EA59031FA.jpg[/image]

You will note that I took as many of the cities north of Moscow as I could - including Kalinin, Torzhok, and Vyshny Volochek



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 6:03:39 PM)

Moscow - the big gamble

Here is where I demand ONE MORE TURN OF GOOD WEATHER

I was too slow, or something, and I will put the panzers and infantry in trouble after the mud. Still, if it works it is worth it. The 3rd Panzer crept around the north of the capital, the 4th (with the reinforcement of the late arriving XXX Panzer Corps) feinted toward Kaluga the previous turn then zapped to cut off Moscow. If it works, I have helped myself a bit, if it fails it proves the original title of this AAR.



[image]local://upfiles/23503/38BEC2D457334524B9C67BCC2BA53674.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 6:06:26 PM)

The Empty Middle

Here is where the vastness of the Soviet Union makes me cringe. So much big empty, nowhere to hide. The 4th, 2nd, and 6th Armies bludgeoned along in the past month to take as many cities as they could without armor help. Sadly, Orel will not fall, but Kursk, Belgorod, and Kharkov all fell. I really would want about 5-6 more hexes before blizzard, so the snow might know more advance....gulp.


[image]local://upfiles/23503/0FC92091989F4C28BD0CAD7872960088.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 6:08:19 PM)

The South

Here the fruits of my dash to Stalino pay off. That belt of cities is behind the lines now, just waiting for 1st Panzer to come and book up all the hotels for the winter. Here, the urban/cities/larger towns, along with the mountain troops and extra mukluks for the boys means the chance of a fair defense. Of course, I am usually wrong...



[image]local://upfiles/23503/5FFAB02C666A4A11BE09F9F7B5308388.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 6:10:24 PM)

Crimea

Here I cleared out all the nasty Soviets, and reached Kerch right as the rains began to fall. Found the Crimea, just sitting there all alone, can I keep it, Dad? Please?

I promise to keep sufficient troops here and to brush it every day.



[image]local://upfiles/23503/4AA6F76ED6FB45FAB62327021A00D904.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 6:23:31 PM)

The entire front - End of Summer



[image]local://upfiles/23503/D0646C4F560E4669A323144FD7331BE9.jpg[/image]



krupp_88mm -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 8:46:20 PM)

watch out i hear the russians are working on a new wonder weapon

[image]http://images-mediawiki-sites.thefullwiki.org/10/8/3/0/1379422822825590.jpg[/image]



Mynok -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 9:01:08 PM)


Be interesting to see your rail situation. You might find some of those guys in The Big Empty are going to be out of supply in mud.



color -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 10:15:18 PM)

PDH, interesting game. [:)]

Once you reach the first winter turn (before the 1st blizzard turn) if would be really interesting to get your current casualty & OOB, as a reference mark to before your deal with the blizzard.



karonagames -> RE: Misplaced Victories - They were here a second ago... (3/19/2011 10:39:28 PM)

quote:

You might find some of those guys in The Big Empty are going to be out of supply in mud.


My guess is everything east of Stalino will be out of supply range. If you check the mouse over box for supply range, everything more than 25 MPs in clear will be out of supply as mud is x4.

Just hope your opponent doesn't know the rule about the chance for isolated unit to surrender if attacked. I got away with it in my Game with Trey.




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