RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (Full Version)

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Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 12:55:42 AM)

Okay turn 13, north, he is bulldozing his way towards LG. Having concluded the city is probably lost by mud, what do you suggest I do? Do I evacuate LG units over Ladoga or leave them there for as long as they can hold their positions? I am inclined to do the latter - I won't lose too many units in the city, and with some luck might even be able to keep it till mud.

[image]local://upfiles/1633/B89A884E2AFB46D98AAF1078759D8BAC.jpg[/image]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 12:58:24 AM)

NW Front sector is under almost no pressure at all. I will probably retreat because I don't want yellow guys forming a bulge once LG falls and AGC advances beyond Vjazma.



[image]local://upfiles/1633/2DDD766834B84B74A949C9C26FBA3351.jpg[/image]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 1:05:27 AM)

A nasty surprise in central sector but that's what IGO UGO will get you... one good lucky attack opens up the possibility of free movement of panzers where in WEGO, or continuous time, or real life "game systems" would be plenty of units to quickly react. Time for some of that bevans Zen again [:D]

Hopefully I will seal this breach and unless he widens the shoulders he will be ripe for bad things come blizzard.

BTW I lost track of one of his Panzer groups. One is still bulldozing near LG. The other is in the south near Cherkassy. The third PzG is here, taking Vjazma. Fourth group was near the border between AGC and AGS directly east of Pripjat marshes but it's not there anymore.

Could it be he transferred it here? You tell me. I see 7 Panzer and 5 motorized units in Vjazma breach, is that one or two Panzer groups, comrades from the intelligence sector of the RKKA????????


[image]local://upfiles/1633/107682D95D6048818B8F0A8A6442758D.jpg[/image]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 1:07:39 AM)

Mini pseudo breach near Cherkassy, I am not sure Rundstedt will be too delighted by so moderate an advance.... D-Petrovsk still firmly red, as is Poltava, and Zappy city.



[image]local://upfiles/1633/F0EC06220A204DBFBB74167370E3F2E3.jpg[/image]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 1:14:08 AM)

Now, time to ask for some advice, regarding Harkov industry. I evacuated armaments, heavies and vehicles, leaving only that big full sized alien egg farm, ie T-34 fac. It is ready to be evaced in one go, that's why I cleared away the rest of the industry.

However, I bravely deem Harkov to be safe for couple turns now (frontline in this sector barely moved after my retreat from Dnepr in turn 10, 3 turns ago!!). Thus I am reluctant to remove T-34 factory and disrupt production. His nearest Panzer group is slogging south near Chekassy as seen on this screenshot, but you never know. In IGO UGO, and with 50 MPs they can suddenly break free and teleport near Harkov like magic.

OTOH with some luck I might keep Harkov till mud and keep the T-34 production undisrupted over winter.

Suggestions?

EDIT: I uploaded the wrong pic.


[image]local://upfiles/1633/0865E4374A0D43C4A5D68B91797AA90D.jpg[/image]



Sabre21 -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 3:05:13 AM)

Crazy how things can change so fast huh Oleg. Trey did a similar thing to me in the center long ago, that's why I learned to have successive lines of defense in place. I always try and maintain two lines so as one is breached I have a back stop. With Senno taking Vyzama like that, you are going to be scrambling to contain him.

Have no doubt he will do what he can to widen the breach. You need to tar baby him...and hard. Get units right up against every unit in the breakthru on as many sides as possible. Don't stack..you want depth. Then get working on your Moscow defenses. I usually lay a carpet 5 rows out from Moscow from kaluha north to Klin. That breakout may prove decisive.

Up north leningrad looks safe for a few turns. Get a unit in those other ports digging in asap. In the northwest, you should start a line along the hills east of your current line, but right now the priority is Vyzama. If I was Senno, I would be widening the breach and air refueling my panzers. Get as many fighters west of Moscow as you can get to disrupt any air drops. Losses be damned at this point.



Klydon -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 3:48:17 AM)

Are you playing with random weather or fixed? If its random, you have about a 20% shot at mud in the north starting in October. Better get the party rain dancers busy up by Leningrad. :)

One other note is please turn on fortification levels before taking your screen shots. Helps the rest of us see what state the defenses are in. :)

Leningrad is in serious trouble, no question, but I think you make every effort to try to save it. In the end, you may not be successful and if the Finns get in, you can withdraw. If you are successful, the Germans will be stuck at the gates of Leningrad and pretty exhausted after trying to take the city, making them potentially ripe for a blizzard push back.

I don't think you retreat with the NW front at all. Should you manage to hang onto Leningrad, part of your winter attack should include a thrust west on the rail line south of the lake with Pskov as its objective. What I do think you do with the NW front is to thin out the front line to do some digging in the Valdi Hills and to provide troops either to help Leningrad's defense or to provide some defense back towards Rzhev to free those troops up to help with the defense down by Moscow. If he wants to push your thinned line back, then so be it, but no free rides when it comes to making the Germans take territory.

As far as Kharkov goes, it is a tough decision. As long as he knows the factory is there, he is going to likely keep coming hard and you are going to be committed to throwing everything you can at saving it. One thing I don't like with the plan to keep it there is there are absolutely no lines of defense started between the front and Kharkov. You got 3 rivers to work with to help. Part of the issue is since no digging has gone on, the fortifications between the front and Kharkov are not going to be that hot. Given all this, I don't think it is worth the risk. I would pull the factory out.

South, you got a lot of force and I think you can afford to give some ground to him. In fact, you can likely see about trying to draw him on, stretch his supply lines quite a bit, laugh when mud hits, cower a bit when snow comes and then drop the hammer during the blizzard on someone who got overextended. I would look to perhaps transfer some of that force up to help with Moscow.

My thoughts from the cheap seats anyway. :)

Entertaining game.

*Edit* I guess I should have checked the other thread as I see the turn went out. Oops! [sm=crazy.gif]



76mm -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 4:23:29 AM)

I would get the tank factory out of Kharkov...I've lost lots of factories because I thought they were "safe", and that is one you don't want to lose...



mikemcmann -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 5:48:03 AM)

Some critiques, if you'll have them.

There are roughly two types of people: blame/introspective & blame/extrospective. Those in the former recognize their failings and learn from them. Those in the latter, don't.

I can't help but read through many of your posts (you are rather prolific on here....) and find that you always have an "excuse.". This latest series of posts is about the igo/ugo system. Other posts it's super girls or blizzard , etc,etc..... My primary advice is to stop laying blame for your own failure on external sources. While certainly this happens in life, one is always better served to assume ones own fault prior to placing blame. You will find much more wisdom and knowledge gained.....

Specific to your game:

Don't abandon anything. He has a finite time to win a decisive victory. If he does not, you will begin the three year push back to Berlin. Then the skill will rest with you if you can do it.

Next, have successive waves of troops. Mob any unit alone from every direction. Don't bother counterattacking, just ooze around him slowing the advance. Casualties are not important at this stage.

Third, be aggressive in your counter maneuver not passive and retreat. Retreating does nothing but give him free advance to contact and x more hexes...

Well written aar and documented nicely (if a bit filled with ego and denial..)

Keep up the pressure and good luck!

McMann



Aussiematto -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 8:01:40 AM)

No trite commentary from me - just suggest that Leningrad will hold if those are fort 4s but, otherwise... tricky. I don't think you can give it up, but would get lots of infrantry up towards the ports while keep flank pressure on him. Hold on as long as you can comrade! Kharkov looks safe...he'll be pushing more south and north there...



Apollo11 -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 10:40:04 AM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

Okay turn 13, north, he is bulldozing his way towards LG. Having concluded the city is probably lost by mud, what do you suggest I do? Do I evacuate LG units over Ladoga or leave them there for as long as they can hold their positions? I am inclined to do the latter - I won't lose too many units in the city, and with some luck might even be able to keep it till mud.

[image]local://upfiles/1633/B89A884E2AFB46D98AAF1078759D8BAC.jpg[/image]


Darn... this is not looking good at all... [:(]

The Leningrad stacks are not looking strong enough for me - The Pavlovo and the HEX just to the right of it (i.e. east of Pavlovo) are looking underdefended - there the Germans will atack when you lose the Kolpino 8and you will loose Koplino because he can and will attack from several HEX sides...


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

A nasty surprise in central sector but that's what IGO UGO will get you... one good lucky attack opens up the possibility of free movement of panzers where in WEGO, or continuous time, or real life "game systems" would be plenty of units to quickly react. Time for some of that bevans Zen again [:D]

Hopefully I will seal this breach and unless he widens the shoulders he will be ripe for bad things come blizzard.

BTW I lost track of one of his Panzer groups. One is still bulldozing near LG. The other is in the south near Cherkassy. The third PzG is here, taking Vjazma. Fourth group was near the border between AGC and AGS directly east of Pripjat marshes but it's not there anymore.

Could it be he transferred it here? You tell me. I see 7 Panzer and 5 motorized units in Vjazma breach, is that one or two Panzer groups, comrades from the intelligence sector of the RKKA????????


[image]local://upfiles/1633/107682D95D6048818B8F0A8A6442758D.jpg[/image]


Oh my... this is even more serious than Leningrad in the north... you don't have defensive belts in front of Moscow...

This will be very close call - pray for miracle Oleg 8I would ask Stalin to open all churches in Russia and to ask all non fighting inhabitants to pray)...


Leo "Apollo11"



karonagames -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 11:01:08 AM)

Re: Kharkov Factories; I work on the axiom "If in doubt, get 'em out".

To echo what Andy said, the lack of a "3D" approach to defence is going to hurt you. A single line of 3 high stacks is really going to hurt you unless they are in lvl 3+ entrenchments and can't be outflanked. Turning those 3 high stacks into a 3 deep red carpet will slow the panzers down more even if they are 1-1 ants.

3D = Delay, Depth and Dig. I delay where I can't get depth, I get depth in front of panzers whenever I can, but I am always digging to protect the key objectives.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 1:10:45 PM)

Ah ye panic mongers! [:D]

I love this forum almost as much as I love the game. [8D]

You guys say I am quick to blame the game, yet I don't panic about this particular game, but some of you already see LG and Moscow in the hands of fascists... won't happen that easy!!

Klydon it is fixed weather game, for some reason my opponents usually prefer that way, although I am personally fan of random.

Thanks for all comments. No one replied to post #123 above, do you think that's one or two Panzer groups operating in the Vjazma breach?

PS. Totally unrelated to anything, but anyone happen to notice that Gadhaffi's loyalists in the offensive vs Libyan rebels have to follow the path of Rommel's DAK? Mersa Brega, Ajdabya, Benghazi.... names news casters have trouble pronouncing or even finding on the map but are well known to WW2 buffs... not one of the mainstream news outlets commented on this interesting tidbit. After taking Ajdabya will he cut to the right straight thru the desert towards Tobruk as old Erwin did, or go directly after Benghazi?

EDIT: DAK in Agedabia:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-782-0013-35,_Agedabia,_Soldaten_in_Ortschaft.jpg



karonagames -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 1:17:23 PM)

quote:

do you think that's one or two Panzer groups operating in the Vjazma breach?


I've seen Senno's AAR so can't comment, but it is interesting that you are seeing or not seeing exactly what he wants you to see or not see.



76mm -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 1:24:48 PM)

Oleg, kind of pertinent to your question about the missing panzer group: can you or any of the other readers comment on why the Sovs have such pathetic recon ability?

I've had turns where I did not get ANY recon flights for whole sections of the front, and usually only get a couple of flights in any particular region. Every now and then, I get a bunch of flights though. I try to keep my recon planes in bases close to the front, etc., but it doesn't seem to help.

Makes it a bit scary as Sov defender in 1941...



Apollo11 -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 1:54:58 PM)

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

PS. Totally unrelated to anything, but anyone happen to notice that Gadhaffi's loyalists in the offensive vs Libyan rebels have to follow the path of Rommel's DAK? Mersa Brega, Ajdabya, Benghazi.... names news casters have trouble pronouncing or even finding on the map but are well known to WW2 buffs... not one of the mainstream news outlets commented on this interesting tidbit. After taking Ajdabya will he cut to the right straight thru the desert towards Tobruk as old Erwin did, or go directly after Benghazi?

EDIT: DAK in Agedabia:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-782-0013-35,_Agedabia,_Soldaten_in_Ortschaft.jpg


I did notice that... [:D]


Leo "Apollo11"



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 2:18:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

do you think that's one or two Panzer groups operating in the Vjazma breach?


I've seen Senno's AAR so can't comment, but it is interesting that you are seeing or not seeing exactly what he wants you to see or not see.


Ah indeed yes sorry, it didn't occur to me that people might be reading his AAR and his detailed plans. Giving a fair estimate based only on the screenshot above is OK, but disclosing info from his AAR is not, so don't do it....



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 2:22:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
Oleg, kind of pertinent to your question about the missing panzer group: can you or any of the other readers comment on why the Sovs have such pathetic recon ability?


Pathetic indeed.... probably linked to low experience. Sometimes I have half a dozen flights over clear terrain where I know his units are detecting nothing, then the next flight over the SAME area gets lucky and detects like 4-5 units in one go. I guess batteries for German cloaking devices run out by the time that flight was launched....



mmarquo -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 2:39:11 PM)

"I've had turns where I did not get ANY recon flights for whole sections of the front, and usually only get a couple of flights in any particular region. Every now and then, I get a bunch of flights though. I try to keep my recon planes in bases close to the front, etc., but it doesn't seem to help."

For one thing many get slaughtered in the opeing airfield attacks; and second keep a close eye on the range - some (IIRC) like the U2 s have a very small radius.

Oleg,

1. I would move industry out of Kharkov asap; not worth the risk.
2. Consider evacuating assets from Moscow; not worth the risk.
3. Lng is woefully undermanned - bulk it up; hopefully the industry is long evacuated.
4. Do not panic - agree; but do not be stubborn.

Marquo





Sabre21 -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 2:53:06 PM)

I have such a short memory it wouldn't do you any good for me to see Senno's aar's anyways, that's why I can play this game against myself so well cuz I can't remember what i did from one player turn to the next..haha.

Anyways, based on what I see in the break out area and assuming he hasn't transferred units around much, elements of 2nd Panzers are in there (SS). It looks like 4 panzer corps..again making assumptions those not identified are panzer or motorised. Since 2nd Panzers start with 3 panzer corps and 3rd panzers have 2, one panzer corps is missing.

There are elements of another corps outside the breakout area that would account for the missing 5th corps. Since I can't see the entire map I don't know the situation down south.




karonagames -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 3:05:06 PM)

I would also be scraping together some cavalry/and or tank brigade "cossacks" to slip through those 2 hex gaps he is leaving between infantry divisions to force him to either split into regiments and put his C&C under pressure and/or stop him concentrating his infantry corps.

I was bouncing Speedy's airbases for about 4 turns before he caught up with my cossacks.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 3:10:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak
I was bouncing Speedy's airbases for about 4 turns before he caught up with my cossacks.


It's not cossacks, it's Red Cavalry mate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hYaXpmJTtM

I will disclose Stavka's most secret plan: I have this role playing idea of putting old Semjon Budjoni as Cavalry Army commander once the winter comes. Dude with such a legendary moustache and seminal contribution to military fashion in form of Budenovka hat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budenovka) deserves his moment of glory in some AAR, regardless of how low his ratings are in the game!



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 3:19:15 PM)

Kazimir Malevich, painter I respect a lot. Красная конница идёт (<= that's "Krasnaya Konnitsa Idet" in cyrillic) is one of his most famous paintings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Malevich_cavalry.jpg

Kinda reminds of Sabre's sig picture, stylized into a modernist painting. Thing to note is that red cavalrymen are not painted in imposing, larger than life style, as one would associate with any totalitarian regime, but actually very small against faraway horizon.

Oh well, that's all nice and dandy but FOR NOW I JUST HAVE TO SURVIVE, FASCIST DOGS ARE ADVANCING TOWARDS LENINGRAD AND MOSCOW!!!!




Sabre21 -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 3:30:36 PM)

That's a good point Bob brought up. You need to make Senno start to worry by making probing attacks here and there, especially where you can get in behind him. Losing a few units that might get cut off while taking the fight to him will be well worth it.

If he starts breaking down divisions to cover his flanks, I do what I call "wave attacks". I attack the weakest regiment with adjacent units once or twice then move them out and bring in fresh troops and hit 'em again, then move them out and repeat the process untill either they retreat or I run out of troops. Once they retreat they are very susceptible to retreating again or even routing. Here is where cavalry can make an attack and force them to retreat again.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 3:35:56 PM)

I actually counterattack Senno quite a lot - for a guy who oftenly complains how hard it is to counterattack as Soviet anyway [:D]

Last turn I pushed these guys back one hex. I think in games vs human such setbacks do have pretty important pyscological role, in making him afraid and cautious.... (AI wouldn't care)

[image]local://upfiles/1633/CED4AEB6B32A4BBEBF1D2EA35544D7EE.jpg[/image]



Sabre21 -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/16/2011 4:21:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

I actually counterattack Senno quite a lot - for a guy who oftenly complains how hard it is to counterattack as Soviet anyway [:D]

Last turn I pushed these guys back one hex. I think in games vs human such setbacks do have pretty important pyscological role, in making him afraid and cautious.... (AI wouldn't care)



Exactly my point. Pyscological warfare is almost as fun as being in the cav. I used it many times when facing opponents in the real world, both as a grunt and as a pilot, and even more so when I was married [:D]

When I first played Trey he was really ambitious in the way he maneuvered his Germans. For the first few turns I was cutting off every panzer unit he had. I don't think he made it to the Dnepr before we quit and tried again. Next time he was so cautious my boys were falling asleep waiting for him to advance. Needless to say after 5 or 6 games he was figuring things out pretty well and developing ways to breach my defenses more effectively. Trey learned pretty quick.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/17/2011 2:50:35 AM)

Okay, turn 14 north, situation is pretty clear now, as regards to which units will stay in occupied city, and which will try to defend Volkov line and Ladoga ports. It's three turns before mud strikes and I think defending at least one port, Svirica on the Karelian border, should be feasible.

That leaves him with the option of attacking LG directly over Neva. Not much to say about that option..... seems hard but doable.... at least it would be too late for him to redeploy before mud, and I will retreat below the New Finnish line, simplify the strategic situation and carry on.

Note two units to the west. The blue unit is a mistake. I clicked "assign nearest HQ" and there was some lost Western MD corps HQ in the unit heap and it became blue. The other unit is running to the nearest port three hexes to the west - if it gets there maybe it can be evacuated to LG LOL

[image]local://upfiles/1633/3AB912628B384B0DA67C9C0F2E02AC77.jpg[/image]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/17/2011 2:53:21 AM)

This sad looking but solidly rated guy will stay behind in LG commanding the cut off 23rd Army. After the war we'll name some city Purkaevo, after him.

Pskov is leading candidate for now, because it's hard to pronounce.

[image]local://upfiles/1633/63CF7DBF0A5A4A9BA237D3A38D5C72D5.jpg[/image]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/17/2011 2:59:28 AM)

Didn't I tell you there's no reason to panic in the center? Leo, my friend? [:D]

Vjazma penetration is nicely contained. For now, at least, but he has only 3 turns of nice weather, I think he just missed his best chance to endanger Moscow before mud. Who was the traitor suggesting I evacuate everything from the Red capital?

Also, this salient, unless he does something about it, may become juicy target for Soviet winter offensive.

[image]local://upfiles/1633/DE81892C54F349A0A6940EDCD1ED87A3.jpg[/image]



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: Waiting for the spring miracle... Oleg (Sov) vs Senno (Axis), NO Senno (3/17/2011 3:04:17 AM)

Same area with recon flights turned ON [X(] [:D] [:-]

My god it's full of.... recon flights... I imagine frontline photolabs having their hands full, developing like thousands of pictures....

Wonder where he wants to go next.... [:D]

BTW, note one division amidst all this, that was NOT directly overflown. It's 365th rifle division of the 54th army. Lets remember this unit, because I think it's universe's way of telling me something special is planned for it.

[image]local://upfiles/1633/6E6619D30BFF4E5CB1096713DA7B763F.jpg[/image]



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