RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (Full Version)

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Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 6:17:28 PM)

Turn 15

AGN (post-recon)

The recon picture doesn't show much to be alarmed about in the Leningrad area. Fortifications are low on my right flank. There does not seem to be a heavy commitment of troops in the area.

[image]local://upfiles/37041/AF47AAB9D068495EB78F21EC8A103685.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 6:19:22 PM)

Turn 15

AGN:

Turn 15:

AGN:

After the last turns successful attacks. It seemed that enough force was present to take Leningrad direct.

Still surprised at the light defenses. This round, their were 2 units committed from reserve status, though. No SU's committed to the attack.

The far right hex is captured as well, on the way to the port at Osinovits, the fabled backdoor to Leningrad.

The units in the far right hex were not well fortified, and no SU's committed to the attack.

In honor of PDH, I name the offensive the "De-clawed cat"[;)] as the Lions of Leningrad fade with an outraged roar.

Until the blizzard, maybe. If he comes this way.







[image]local://upfiles/37041/722E93A888AD43C98955B678E45E0342.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 6:40:26 PM)

Turn 15

AGN Infantry:

The FBD is at Pushkin.

The are in decent shape overall. And will begin to move out, south.

I'm undecided if Second Army will take it's historical spot in the line, or just shuffle south, taking a spot in the line down in AGC.

The rail picture isn't great, I don't have any spurs connecting north/south. It's still a long way around from AGN down to AGC and AGS.

The automatic rail repair is doing their thing, willy nilly.




[image]local://upfiles/37041/E9F1C41A9A1F49B98363193C409F54A9.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 6:45:43 PM)

Turn 15

AGN:

L Corps/Second Army is also in the fight for Leningrad. So they are shown. Other than Fourth Panzer, these two screens were my commitment to AGN.

It's a few Infantry Divisions more than historical, I suppose.

[image]local://upfiles/37041/FFF8E17914D94A6E8118B95DAA55126C.jpg[/image]



Sabre21 -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 6:54:04 PM)

Well 2 more turns to take NW Leningrad so keep pushing there.



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 7:01:37 PM)

AGN:

Turn 15

Fourth Panzer OOB:

I have really not used them heavily, since he withdrew to the Luga, and blocked off the potential right hook. So they remain very healthy and ready for commitment.




[image]local://upfiles/37041/BD3861DBD1334477867B1C75FD400776.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 7:09:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Well 2 more turns to take NW Leningrad so keep pushing there.


I will, Sabre. No stopping now, and I need those Finns desperately now.

My lines are at critical mass, now. He could end up in Riga, if I'm not careful.

Should be downhill the next 2 turns. He can't get any more forces in there, I don't think. Ports closed due to ZOC's now, isn't it?

/Digs out manual.



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 7:15:49 PM)

Turn 15:

Karenlian Army:

Unless Soviets shift heavier forces here, rolling down to linkup with Germans won't be extremely difficult as we face lightly dug in Sec forces.

We have no house rules for the Finns.

I've flown recon in the area, but I suppose some forces could be hidden, but I doubt it?

His internal rail net makes getting up there a bit easier, but that should change soon as I hope to cut the line.


[image]local://upfiles/37041/BEBC1799BFDC4EE0ABD11C16579A531C.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 7:23:16 PM)

To be brutally honest, I don't think Leningrad falling in my game means much at all. I was clear to Oleg when he challenged me that I wasn't a good player. And that if he wished to prove a point, he should play a tester. This was in Q-Ball's AAR thread, of course.

He didn't get a game lined up with BA, ComradeP, or any other testers. Instead deciding to play me. Since he called me out twice, I decided to go ahead and play him as a learning experience. But, I'm pretty certain my own play has confirmed that I'm not very good. I hope to get better, of course.

I guess "let's wait for the testers data" (paraphrasing myself here) was fightin' words, haha. Well, I did tease him a bit hard, I guess.[;)]

At least we are starting to see AAR's and get reports of the Germans status post-blizzard. I hope to reach Spring '42 at least in this game, to see if I melt away, or have an army left. I am well aware from the state of my own defenses that "melt away" might be the result, after the Soviets stomp on me.

And Leningrad's defenses.... Well...



Q-Ball -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 7:29:12 PM)

Nice job; Leningrad is yours. It's only a matter of time.

With only a Lvl-2 fort, you should be able to clear Ostinovets next turn. Make sure you have a Mobile unit, though, right on the Neva behind your infantry, so you have a unit with enough MPs to actually reach the hex after your Infantry clears it.

If you do that, all forces in that area should be isolated at the start of turn 17, giving you the last turn of clear to clean it all up, and enough time to get the Finns set-up along the Volkhov, which looks like his final defense line.

His fatal error was not building tall enough forts on those two hexes, and parking 3 strong units there.



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 8:14:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Nice job; Leningrad is yours. It's only a matter of time.

With only a Lvl-2 fort, you should be able to clear Ostinovets next turn. Make sure you have a Mobile unit, though, right on the Neva behind your infantry, so you have a unit with enough MPs to actually reach the hex after your Infantry clears it.

If you do that, all forces in that area should be isolated at the start of turn 17, giving you the last turn of clear to clean it all up, and enough time to get the Finns set-up along the Volkhov, which looks like his final defense line.

His fatal error was not building tall enough forts on those two hexes, and parking 3 strong units there.


Thanks Q-Ball. I think I'm ready to finish it off in the next 2 turns.

Well, at least link-up and activate the Finns, I hope. He may still have units in there, otherwise.

NW Leningrad awaits.



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 9:01:34 PM)

Turn 15

AGN:

After R&R last turn, elements of Fourth Panzer stream into and through VL. Unfortunately, they don't exploit very far at all. Right now, the way to Kalinin is clear. Recon flights show no depth here, which is not surprising. May slice further south to Rzhev, it depends on the Soviet response.

I have been waiting a long time for this, but wasn't sure if I would need to bulldoze in Leningrad with Fourth Panzer.
I feel OK up there, so they are committed now.

And it's not a decent width of breakthrough, but it's all I've got infantry wide to commit for now. It will have to do.

The Soviets response will be interesting.

I have also formed a "mobile reserve" which will look out for the Cav. That remains hidden from his recon, I hope.

I have flown air resupply to these units. They should come back with decent MP's, as the HQ and the units are within range of the railhead.

[image]local://upfiles/37041/45AF3D4561624FD9B9899654B9A18412.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 9:09:04 PM)

Turn 15:

Prip Pocket:

2 Soviets remain alive in the Prip Pocket. Soviets slowly crawl to my supply line that runs across north edge of Prip and down to Gomel.

I've not been able to kill them yet. But it remains interesting, as they have not surrendered yet.

I will finish the roundup shortly.

My last ditch defensive line peeks out from the north along the Dnepr.

[image]local://upfiles/37041/475A26E6BE8140B4BB7EA7802849CE5F.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 10:09:37 PM)

Turn 15

AGC:

Well, recon shows an amazing thickening of units before Moscow.[;)] And, I fear Soviets so close to Smolensk, as they can drop down onto my rail lines quite easily.

So, Ninth Army hits the north wall, just to the south of Rzhev. A jhole is opened, and elements of Third Panzer stream through, looping back onto and meeting up with Fourth Panzer near VL, and capturing Rzhev.

The northern pincher is forming, but I don't feel to far out of balance, as I remain close to the bulk of Ninth Army. I am probably to far away to grab Moscow before mud, maybe blizzard.

Soviets don't appear to be well dug in up here, either.

XXXX Panzer was well fueled, and instead of driving Fourth Panzer to Rzhev next turn to take it, we grabbed it this turn, hehe.

[image]local://upfiles/37041/F7947675759741A0AC9E060282C7BA1F.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/17/2011 11:11:41 PM)

AGC:

Turn 15:

MP's are low as Second Panzer is crowded into a Soviet vice. No infantry close by.

Fourth Army continues leap-frogging into the breach, taking positions from Ninth Army, as they moved north.

The Panzers are primed for a dash.

With the lateness of the season, probably just trying to pocket something, rather than make it to Moscow might be the better option.

[image]local://upfiles/37041/6D4A16EAFED9421AAD75AC241D68E0FF.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 12:25:00 AM)

My approach is not guaranteed to produce anything other than failure.  I end up going down in flames, but at least I fight all the way.  I suspect that the last few turns have been more enjoyable with you on the offense and holding the initiative [:)]

For me, I really want my opponant to open their turn in summer of 1941 with a sense of dread.  "What in the hell has he done now?" should be their thought. As this is still just 1.03 I expect to get kicked around in winter, but that is that.  Dictating the pace as you have done is what the game for the Germans is really about.

I expect next time your play will be even more fierce.



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 12:37:59 AM)

Turn 15

AGS:

Well, not enough infantry got onto the line, so no general breakthrough. First Panzer moves north and south of a grouping of Soviets. Perhaps we will move them out of these dugin positions, at least.




[image]local://upfiles/37041/B7AF0E7CDEC847E18F2957B2DDF74EE8.jpg[/image]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 1:02:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

My approach is not guaranteed to produce anything other than failure.  I end up going down in flames, but at least I fight all the way.  I suspect that the last few turns have been more enjoyable with you on the offense and holding the initiative [:)]

For me, I really want my opponant to open their turn in summer of 1941 with a sense of dread.  "What in the hell has he done now?" should be their thought. As this is still just 1.03 I expect to get kicked around in winter, but that is that.  Dictating the pace as you have done is what the game for the Germans is really about.

I expect next time your play will be even more fierce.


When I line up infantry and can pound a nice hole, a nice breakthrough results. Like the breakthrough that allowed me to drop on Kiev in turn 8 (pictured) or the recent breakthroughs in AGC.

When I can't get the infantry to the point in sufficient mass, a limited breakthrough results, at most. And Oleg slips away.

Missing the AGS pocket turn 1 hurt badly, and continues to in AGS. This last push in AGS is more of the same, not enough infantry on the point, but it's consolidating. Just in time for him to slip away, yet again. The die was cast somewhat with the missed pocket back on turn 1.

This whole game has been a learning experience for me. And I've improved, I believe. I have no doubt a player better than I could pick at every turn and point out faults. Like at Pskov turn 3. Failed attack, and he then thickened up somewhat. And we've been slugging it out since there.

I've been pretty clear in speaking of my own timid play, even as I try to correct it. With an live player on the field instead of AI, easier said than done.

So, I generally agree with you, but I've always tried to be on the offense.[:)] The field is littered with failed attacks as I learned to put together an offense as this game requires. I hope to present a more formidable defense from what I've learned, in the coming turns.

The game has 2 sides, and I suspect we are both learning the game. I know I am.

I wish Oleg would just sit still and let me pocket him. His "great withdrawal" is testimony that he won't.[:)]

The game has been enjoyable, even as I was learning.[:)]

[image]local://upfiles/37041/81D76B71008F45489470F63217B20806.jpg[/image]



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 1:23:44 AM)

Turns like that - your dash to Kiev is a great example - is what really makes this fun for the Axis player.  It is so easy to get bogged down, look at so many of the AARs.  The goal should be to keep the Soviets on their heels turn after turn.  What you did was even tougher, in the south you lost the initiative then regained it - that is a feat in and of itself.



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 1:35:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

Turns like that - your dash to Kiev is a great example - is what really makes this fun for the Axis player.  It is so easy to get bogged down, look at so many of the AARs.  The goal should be to keep the Soviets on their heels turn after turn.  What you did was even tougher, in the south you lost the initiative then regained it - that is a feat in and of itself.


I appreciate that. And it wasn't easy.[:)] He had done a good job withdrawingriver to river, and I finally caught up to him well enough to smack a hole.

Generally, my windup to the plate is slow, a I try to minimize risks. Still working on that.

Ultimately though, I might be a better Soviet player, as I tend to slide to the side of brute force.[:)]




PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 1:50:06 AM)

Hey, never underestimate the power of "Brute Force and Ignorance"(tm) to overcome any situation.  [:)]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 2:00:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeeDeeAitch

Hey, never underestimate the power of "Brute Force and Ignorance"(tm) to overcome any situation.  [:)]


That used to describe my tennis game.[;)]




Mynok -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 3:35:13 AM)


What is it now? Brute Ignorance and Force? [:'(]



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 3:39:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


What is it now? Brute Ignorance and Force? [:'(]



I don't have a tennis game, anymore. Fell off a roof, and that was the end of that.[:)]




Mynok -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 4:48:57 PM)


Why were you playing tennis on a roof?



PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 4:56:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Why were you playing tennis on a roof?



That must have been the "I" part of B.F. and I.



Senno -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 5:22:55 PM)

LoL.
----
Waiting on Oleg's turn.

This would have been awesome to pay on though:




[image]local://upfiles/37041/97B35E8E61FE4777BDA9833E1BB9C396.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 9:17:24 PM)

You think its hard playing tennis on a roof try croquet.



Encircled -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/18/2011 10:03:46 PM)

Croquet?

Try playing American football on a shed roof, now that is hardcore



Apollo11 -> RE: Senno v Oleg; Starring in "Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt?" No Oleg (3/21/2011 10:18:48 PM)

Hi all,

"Senno", Oleg posted in his AAR that you plan to resign?!?! [&:]


IMHO that would not be good idea - the process of learning is the process of making mistakes and trying to fix them by continuing to play!

Thus I strongly encourage you to continue (even though you think you might be in big trouble in blizzard and suffer greatly) because this is the best way you learn new things!!!


Leo "Apollo11"



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