RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (Full Version)

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randallw -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 6:32:30 PM)

Those divisions of the two mech corps, under Stavka control, that you've shoved out in front for Western Front probably will retreat/rout easily, then you'll be having to wait 11 weeks for them to come back after their conversion....you may also need to move a HQ towards the rear to 'catch' them on routs and get them unrouted again.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 6:50:43 PM)

It's true that on my other game I wasn't paying attention to many things: air war, refit, HQ organization etc. [8D]

Now I will try to be more "competent" or rational. I have been doing a massive reorganization in this Western Front on my last turn. As you can see, many of the units were atached to STAVKA, now the boss is Zhukov himself [&o]

I ran out of APs though. BUT the Reserve aka Kalinin HQ is here this turn therefore I have like 200 APs now... [sm=00000055.gif]

These units you're mentioning will be in theory attached to either the Kalinin or Western fronts armies in this area.

Needless to say, thanks for this advice [:)]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 10:58:04 PM)

Turn 4

10 july 1941


Well... why should I lie? [:D] I thought my situation was desperate. But somehow... I still have many STAVKA strategic Reserves! And on next turn I will get...

25 more divisions!


On the last two turns I have created a big defensive mass in the Center to protect Moscow. Now I have formed a similar mega horde to protect Leningrad. I even managed to more or less cover the Dnper in my destroyed Southwestern Front... AND I still have like 20 divisions behind the front that I will be keeping behind my Western, Kalinin and Leningrad Fronts...! But... if 2ndACR wants it he will get it [:D] So don't cry, man!

[image]local://upfiles/11562/1C2166A4240E4F758810FBA07E0CCB86.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 11:09:25 PM)

Leningrad

[image]local://upfiles/11562/DD11985F2C2F4E64A5B6B197D58D855D.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 11:13:28 PM)

The Kalinin and Western Fronts, with the many reserves I could be using if I need them [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/E1444713643740798A97CEA7281EBE3A.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 11:16:38 PM)

Here the situation is obviously more complicated... The idea is that I should "invite" him to turn southwards [;)] So the south part of the Bryansk Front will be obviously strenghtened...

[image]local://upfiles/11562/F7C4BE9933C6407A8679F06B973DCF96.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 11:24:17 PM)

The Smolensk area... The reorganization is 100% done. Two aces, Tolbukhin and Vatutin appointed as bosses of two armies here. All the armies have now 2 sappers + 2 RR Bdes + 3 artillery... Fortifications are still low though... Let's see what happens here!

[image]local://upfiles/11562/4F6C0F9CE01D49699994AFF26530F9AC.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 11:31:16 PM)

My other game showed me one important thing... You NEED cavalry, just in case. When I started the destruction of my opponent's AGN forces, I realized cavalry was needed...

So no mistake on this game... Like 6 or 7 cavalry divisions have been sent from the south to Leningrad and Western Front areas [sm=00000622.gif] They could be very useful to let's say cutt off my opponent's Panzers, remember, the most feared thing when you're in charge of the Red Army. I will possibly be sending even more cavalry divisions to these two places. We never know what the good lord will be providing... AND, from my opponent's first moves I may conclude that he might be an agressive player. That can be a good thing... but of course it can be also a bad thing (for him that is). And that's where the cavalry thing makes sense [sm=00000622.gif] But of course maybe I am sniffing too much glue [:D]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 11:41:29 PM)

In the South I am obviously in retreat mode [:D]

Two Rifle Divisions + Coastal HQ stay in Odessa. On my last game they resisted three turns. Let's see what happens on this one [8D] And the good thing is they don't surrender and die, they escape routed via the port to Crimea or Eastern Ukraine.

[image]local://upfiles/11562/9AE9D009E0F145B38B3F095955492558.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/10/2011 11:56:10 PM)

Army HQs can handle 3 construction units, not just 2.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 12:18:14 AM)

I see, Randall. I will be assigning one more RR Brigades thing on next turn. Thank you again [:)]



Aurelian -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 12:38:36 AM)

I always go with 4 myself.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 12:42:36 AM)

Aurelian, so according to Randall you should be kicking one of these contruction units out?



Aurelian -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 12:58:47 AM)

Probably. For some reason, I go for 4. Both RR brigades and artillery.

Just lots of experimenting on my part [:)].

Latest experiment is running all Corps east ASAP, except the 9th, and building FRs as suggested in cookiemonster's wiki.



randallw -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 1:58:22 AM)

The computer may automatically kick the 4th construction unit out of Army HQs.

You still have some re-org to do, with those North Cauc divisions, Airborne Corps ( under Kharkov MD ), and Orel MD units ( of that mech corps ) up front.



Mynok -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 2:22:59 AM)


IMO you have way too much in the North, but that's just a German perspective. Some of those would be very helpful for you down south where you are really out of units. Your only saving grace there is his infantry and railheads are way in the back. That buys you some time.

He's got plenty enough panzers down there to pocket that entire bunch around Kiev if he gets across the river south of there.



Sabre21 -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 3:16:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

The computer may automatically kick the 4th construction unit out of Army HQs.

You still have some re-org to do, with those North Cauc divisions, Airborne Corps ( under Kharkov MD ), and Orel MD units ( of that mech corps ) up front.



That's only if you have the support level at that Hq set at 3. If it is set at 9 you can have 9 of each, if it is locked, then nothing comes in or goes out. Construction units are exempt from the support level settings other than locked or 0.



CharonJr -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 7:39:32 AM)

Ah, good to know, and that explains why I have tons of contruction units from my failed attempts to assign more than 3 to HQs :)



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 1:47:57 PM)

Turn 5

17 july 1941


Well, if I am not mistaken I think my massive (because I launched them everywhere, but most importantly in the Northwest and Western Fronts) counter-attacks on turns 2 and 3 are now paying dividends [8D] Without them, from what I have seen in other AARs the Germans should be in Pskov and Vitebsk (as someone said on this AAR) in turn 3.

The counter-attacks are only the link of a chain though. The next link of the chain is what makes the difference, in my humble opinion: bringing many STAVKA strategic reserves and form (if possible, of course) a formidable defence.

When my opponent has resumed course on this turn towards the east he has faced these STAVKA reserves which were reorganized, had two top ace bosses (Tolbukhin and Vatutin and Zhukov on top) and plenty of support. Result: he's been contained aka quite many HELD things (and the cream of his forces was attacking: Panzer and Motorized divisions)! [&o]

I am merely a noob but I am starting to think that this might be a good tip for any Soviet player = counter-attacks + CONCENTRATE your STAVKA Armies and independent units in front of the enemy main thrust. Feel free to experiment or of course disagree [:)] But one thing you know: if you don't do anything it's going to be a free ride for any competent German player [:)]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/35ABDE7FA0B048EDA8BCC6C04B89B083.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 1:56:17 PM)

This is what happened in the map. Coincidence or the top aces + support make the difference? [8D]

[image]local://upfiles/11562/0F0D3BDAC63747E5A653F07FC305AF22.jpg[/image]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 2:07:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


IMO you have way too much in the North, but that's just a German perspective. Some of those would be very helpful for you down south where you are really out of units. Your only saving grace there is his infantry and railheads are way in the back. That buys you some time.

He's got plenty enough panzers down there to pocket that entire bunch around Kiev if he gets across the river south of there.



This is indeed debatable [:)] I admit it might be a gamble. BUT as I have said I have a plan and stick to it. The Southwestern Front is NOT my priority: Moscow and Leningrad are [8D] It is a fact that the most important units are in the north, not in the south. Unless of course a German player decides otherwise. I don't think it's the case here. As I already said, if I were diverting forces from my now rather decent defence in the north to the south what would I have? WEAK fronts all over the place. No thanks [:)] And this last turn with the above screenshot has convinced me even more about this thing.

And finally, I will have enough forces in the north only when they will be able to stop my opponent. So I suspect in fact I DO need even more forces, which I will be bringing by the way [:)]



Sabre21 -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 2:28:14 PM)

The panzers are the biggest threat, but not from their huge attack capability, but from their maneuverability. It is the infantry that really packs the bulk of the firepower and once in position will destroy any defense at this stage of the game. Don't expect your carpet defense to last very long. Against a good german player that knows how to deal with it, that defense will be broken in a single turn. You really need to create succesive lines of defense in the center. I typically run about 6 between the Dnepr and Moscow once it is all said and done.

Obviously you can't do this all at once, but I would start to create another line along the Smolensk north-south axis and another a few hexes east of that. Then intersperse a checkerboard to interlock your linear defensive lines.

In the north you have an intimidating force around Pskov, but this can be bypassed to the north thru Narva or south. You need in-depth defenses to protect the city. Get a line of units from Kolpino to the west about 5 hexes and on both sides of that river near Leningrad digging in. Then create a second line south of that and one along the river line a few hexes south of the city. Also get a few blocking forces west of Narva to prevent an end run.

Down south, the German player did well in trapping such a huge number of units which will complicate your defenses. Withdrawing all the way to the Dnepr is a mistake though without leaving any delaying forces west of the river. Allowing his units a clean sweep of the area will let him bring to bear a huge amount of firepower at your weakest point on the river before you can adequately dig in. Once he is east of the Dnepr, you will be hardpressed and praying for mud.



Sabre21 -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 2:34:07 PM)

It does appear your opponent is squandering his strength in the center by using hasty attacks with single divisions. If he does this in the north too by attacking you on your terms he has already lost.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 2:50:59 PM)

Hmm, you are of course an expert Sabre21, and I am not [:)] but I think the current defence in the Vitebsk area will be staying perhaps 2 more turns. In fact I will be attacking a Panzer and Motorized division on this area this turn. It is evident that he wants to encircle from NW Vitebsk. The 16 Army of the Kalinin Front is there. AND I could attack the flanks of this attack, we never know. I had already decided that I would be bringing [this turn] like perhaps 8 divisions to help this army, to block such attack from the north (an obvious encirclement). The spearhead you see will be attacked by the way. Let's hope it retreats [:)] And one more turn = the fortifications are increased in this area.

On my other game a similar defence stopped my opponent (but true, he was "special") [8D]

As for the Southwest, for all I care he could go to Vladivostok (kidding though). I will try to prevent a movement to the north, northeast though if somehow I manage to more or less contain his AGC forces and therefore he tries of course to help in the north [:)] As I see it, I might lose the war in the north, not in the south. But of course I could be wrong.

P.S: if I see a possible encirclement I will possibly end up doing what you're saying. And needless to say, thanks for the advice [&o]



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 3:00:08 PM)

As for my backdoor in Leningrad area (Narva thing), two divisions are already in place. I will be sending more on this turn. Still... I think he should need many hordes to threaten my position in Pskov from this NW barricade... among them possibly the ones which are right now near Pskov... And less forces here = I can divert hordes to the NW barricade [sm=dizzy.gif] A movement which would sort of imitate the movement of an accordion.



Sabre21 -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 3:02:25 PM)

I think you are in excellent shape in the center after seeing how ACR is using his forces, but I would still recommend getting another line started around Smolensk. I create a very similar defense as you at the river bend, about 4 rows deep, but I have had Trey figure ways to defeat it and playing myself I know it can be busted in a single turn. You have done well though to slow him down up to that point. I would agree with your assessment that Vitebsk will hold for 2 more turns, possibly even 3 unless he swings in with 3rd Panzers from the north.

I tend to have the same priorities as you when it comes to strategic value, I consider Leningrad and Moscow of prime importance, but don't forego the south. There are tons of manpower centers there that if captured will cause manpower issues later on.



Sabre21 -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 3:06:32 PM)

Here is another thing to look at. Use the F11 key to see where and what he is air reconning. You can get an idea of what his mindset is based on that. If it is just overall random and sparse, then he is probably letting the ai do it which indicates he probably has no real idea what your defenses really look like. If it is heavily focused in an area, it will give you some insight on where his priority may lie but be aware of deception too.



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 3:16:13 PM)

I get the point of the manpower centers in the south. But you are talking to an eternal pessimist [:)] When I started my other game I was prepared: "Moscow and Leningrad lost, Rostov too, no matter what I am dead meat... [:(]". It didn't happen, er, au contraire, my opponent was dead meat.

On this game it is exactly the same. I am assuming my opponent will grab these places YES or YES during the Blitzkrieg. The eternal pessimist thing again LOL

In other words, I am using a short/medium term strategies. YES, I am terrified (ok, I exagerate, this is merely a game). I only think about surviving. As Lenin said during the Civil War: "everything for the front!".

In other words, I am not thinking about 1943 or 1944. Wrong? Possibly [:)] The good thing (if I manage to survive the Blitzkrieg, which I ignore)? Maybe the game will be ahistorically more balanced, my opponent will appreciate that.



Klydon -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 3:21:24 PM)

LOL at the German division getting a hold against the security regiment. The other thing that is interesting there is the Russians are not even that well dug in. (Thanks for showing entrenchment levels).

Good tips and insight by Sabre. Thanks. :)



TulliusDetritus -> RE: Stalin's in the gulag - Tullius (Soviet) vs 2ndACR (Axis) (3/11/2011 3:23:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Here is another thing to look at. Use the F11 key to see where and what he is air reconning. You can get an idea of what his mindset is based on that. If it is just overall random and sparse, then he is probably letting the ai do it which indicates he probably has no real idea what your defenses really look like. If it is heavily focused in an area, it will give you some insight on where his priority may lie but be aware of deception too.


Sabre21, the problem with the recon thing is that I recon to death. I recon everything which can be reconned, every 2 hexes. So if my opponent does the same it won't help me [:)]

Oh, which means I could try to trick him... On x turn I might recon only some places and avoid others...



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