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fiva55 -> The other Side (3/26/2011 2:00:08 PM)
Unfortunately, I agreed with Jajusha that he wont visit this AAR at least until the mud, but I thought it would be interesting to show my opponents opinion about the game so far. So with Jajusha's permission I will quote some of his more relevant messages :P His thoughts about our game so far quote: ORIGINAL: Jajusha Hows the AAR going? Bet all the germans are having fun with the northern theater for a change. Can you imagine what it is like to wake up, have a nice breakfast then bam, another unbreakable encirclement! That's what i get for relying on peasants! Meanwhile, Christmas preparations on Stalingrad are going well, i got a report from the NKVD that Édith Piaf won't be able to attend, but we will have the Union of Soviet Composers performing a grand 4 day concert. Finally, in Leningrad, the Stalin's organs - Katyusha will be all the music the germans will get :p Really, enjoying this campaign tons, the fact everything from moskow up starts in static mode was a big disadvantage for me, especially since i spent the 3 first turns AP organizing and reeiforcing Stalingrad Front, but that just represents the soviet command mayhem. This campaign is also less of a grind then the 41 campaign as i don't have to spend copious amounts of time just transporting units from the far reaches of the map to the front lines. His thoughts about the the creation of the Rzhev salient quote: Amazing amazing pocket near Rzev, i thought i was prepared for by moving the guards to engage but i swear i had not seen the buildup near the lake Ilmen. Let's see what can salvage...

fiva55 -> RE: Turn 9: The entire Soviet front east of Leningrad has been trapped (3/26/2011 2:01:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: gids wow the russians are feeling the water coming to their chin by now :p Neh, They still massively outnumber me in everything. We will see how everything goes during the winter turns. For those curious how I managed to close the gap between 4th Panzer Army and 18th Army so quickly, here is a quick overview: Turn 7: Soviet tank corps manage to cut off our spearhead. I re-establish contact but decide to HQ buildup the entire 4th panzer group instead of continuing my advance. We are still 10 hexes (100 miles away) from the nearest unit of 18th army Turn 8: Thanks to some well placed deliberate attacks by mobile units stationed a few hexes from the front, I manage to open the path for my front units. They manage to get within 10 miles of 18th army. Meanwhile, 2 reactived divisions of 18th Army manage to clear the remaining hex between 18th army and the spearheads of 4th Panzer Army. A pocket has now been established. Turn 9: I expect the Soviets to have opened a supply line, but to my surprise they fail. According to Jajusha, he tried, but: quote: ORIGINAL: Jajusha nope. in the north a river, mountain terrain and swamp, i made all the calculations possible and it was unbreakable on my side.

Klydon -> RE: Turn 9: The entire Soviet front east of Leningrad has been trapped (3/26/2011 3:48:09 PM)
Just wow. He is going to lose a ton of troops that can't be replaced because unlike 1941, he doesn't get them back for free. At 10 a wack per division, it isn't happening. Well done on this strat for sure.

fiva55 -> Just 40 miles to the Finnish border (3/26/2011 4:12:08 PM)
The sound of German artillery can already be heard by these Finish troops. They are exspecting the arrival of elements of 4th Panzer Army any moment now. [image]local://upfiles/37788/4F275F0DAF7C4E8486DDFF313AF08E16.jpg[/image]

fiva55 -> Turn 10: Another step closer to Finland (3/26/2011 4:15:31 PM)
Despite their desperate struggle to hold back our tanks, the Soviets simply do not enough troops in this sector to form a strong defensive line. Although some strong-points have been identified, our tanks simply bypass them. We will let the infantry mop up those units later. [image]local://upfiles/37788/6F7BAB9F5EB642AB86A4C746EB26F0D0.jpg[/image]

Kronolog -> RE: Turn 9: The entire Soviet front east of Leningrad has been trapped (3/26/2011 4:18:12 PM)
How many tanks does the average panzer division in the 4th panzer army have? Great AAR, btw.

fiva55 -> RE: Turn 9: The entire Soviet front east of Leningrad has been trapped (3/26/2011 4:27:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kronolog How many tanks does the average panzer division in the 4th panzer army have? Great AAR, btw. I will have to check when Jajusha returns my turn. Though I believe I have lost around a 1000 tanks by now, most of them during the fights that involved 4th Panzer Army. The frontline panzer divisions are pretty beaten up, but I always kept a few in reserve. Those should be in better shape.

fiva55 -> Status of 4th Panzer Army (3/26/2011 7:24:51 PM)
As requested, here are all the units of 4th Panzer army with their status this turn and the first turn. Take notice of 13th Panzer division (win loss ratio 8:11), it truly lives up to its name :P [image]local://upfiles/37788/773B8EC8F6864390B2B416FA3BD3965E.jpg[/image]

fiva55 -> Turn 10: Appearance of enemy reinforcement (3/26/2011 7:41:10 PM)
Against all odds, the soviets manage to get a strong defence between us and the Fins. Will our weary panzer divisions have the strength to cross the last 30 miles? [image]local://upfiles/37788/C6DD2B9DBD8F44D4892504557ABD8820.jpg[/image]

Infanteer -> RE: Turn 10: Appearance of enemy reinforcement (3/26/2011 8:43:10 PM)
What a cliffhanger!!! [:)]

fiva55 -> RE: Turn 10: Appearance of enemy reinforcement (3/26/2011 8:48:48 PM)
Haha, I wanted to go to sleep because I had a early shift tomorrow, but decided to play the turn anyway.

fiva55 -> Turn 10: Contact has been made with the Fins! (3/26/2011 8:54:20 PM)
Despite heavy losses, we manage to reach the Finish border. By now, 24th panzer division is a panzer division in name only. The only thing that keeps them fighting is the memory of their well earned victories during the summer campaign. In other news, 18 tiger tanks have been released by OKH and our frontline troops have been requested to fieldtest them. For now, they have been transferred to 4th Panzer Army, where they can test their 88mm cannons against the enemy tank corps. [image]local://upfiles/37788/BC7568BBCCFD4954AB7DFF3C755F3586.jpg[/image]

PeeDeeAitch -> RE: Turn 10: Contact has been made with the Fins! (3/26/2011 9:05:47 PM)
If that holds, that is quite a coup. Congratulations on a supremely well played contest so far!

fiva55 -> RE: Turn 10: Contact has been made with the Fins! (3/26/2011 10:48:54 PM)
In all honesty, my original plan was even more ambitious ^^. I will release a drawing of my original summer offensive plan with some statistics when mud comes up. It will be up to the readers then to decide if the 1942 offensive was a success or not.

fiva55 -> Turn 11: Final objective achieved (3/26/2011 11:11:03 PM)
Half-hearted attempts have been made to try to relieve the troops of Volkhov and Leningrad front. However, after so many defeats by our panzer divisions, their troops are weary and dispirited. They decide to withdraw to more defensive positions instead of fighting it out. With just one more month to go before mud turns up, we have managed to achieve most of our goals. The rest of the month will be spend eliminating the pockets and strengthening our defences for the coming winter. [image]local://upfiles/37788/293024C7FA3A42358F2B0EF7460C6788.jpg[/image]

fiva55 -> The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/26/2011 11:14:00 PM)
A careless staff officer has left our original plan for the 1942 summer offensive for all to view. Fortunately for him, the offensive has already reached most of its goals, but he will still be severely punished. [image]local://upfiles/37788/7588E10A2CDA4859AFF5F8CC1B683828.jpg[/image]

Klydon -> RE: The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/26/2011 11:36:04 PM)
Unreal. Has the Russian been trying to attack in the south? With 1st and 4th panzer and 11th army gone, that doesn't leave a lot down there.

fiva55 -> RE: The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/26/2011 11:56:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Klydon Unreal. Has the Russian been trying to attack in the south? With 1st and 4th panzer and 11th army gone, that doesn't leave a lot down there. He did probe, but too little and too late. After my initial assault South he retreated behind the Donets. Once he realized that my main effort was in the north, he did made small attacks on my line. By then I already had level 2-3 forts all the way up to Rzhev. Now I have a long line of level 3-4 forts all the way up to Army group North. I am also busy digging a second line, though that one is going very slowly. I have no idea if he can mass enough forces in the South to threaten my lines. I have little to no reserves there and I don't have much experience defending anyway. The one time I did defend as German, was in operation Typhoon. That was also against Jajusha, and he absolutely devastated me.... So if any of you have good tips for my defense, bring them on :P. Here is a shot of my southern sector: [image]local://upfiles/37788/29E746521E3441CABB90B26B288006E3.jpg[/image]

Mynok -> RE: The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/27/2011 1:06:39 AM)
There is no reason he could not have broken your northern pocket as shown below. [image]http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e355/Mynok1/AGN.png[/image]

fiva55 -> RE: The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/27/2011 2:40:00 AM)
Wondered about the same. I believe I even mentioned it in one of my post. Still, instead of guessing why he didn't do that move I invited Jajusha over. He should be able to explain it :P. Edit: Never mind, he send me an pm with an explanation quote: Original: Jajusha I don't have access to the AAR screenshots but going back to my memory i'm almost sure that those units where still in Static mode (as most of the northern soviet units start the 42 campaign in that state). If that was the case, the tank brigades would come out with 8 MP (again, if memory serves) and would not be able to move to that square. The rifle brigade would most likely be able to move there and break that pocket. Looking back now i would have been able to have 1 more turn there, but those trapped units couldn't fight forward against an axis wall nor fall back enough to secure a supply link against MOT divisions. It's hard to express how tied i was back there with literally every unit north of Moscow in static mode and having spent the 3 first turns of AP in the southern theater. Rail movement was limited due to the copious amount of hexes required to move to the northern reaches of the map and fear of weakening my other fronts too much. Or, i can just blame it on the Soviet High Command for issuing Order 227: "Is there something we lack? We lack order and discipline. This is our main shortcoming. We must establish the strictest order and iron discipline in our army if we want to rescue the situation and defend our Motherland. Panickers and cowards will be eliminated on the spot. Commanders of companies, battalions, regiments and divisions, along with their commissars and political workers, will be considered traitors to the Motherland if they retreat without orders from above." So, that move above was technically a step back :p

Klydon -> RE: The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/27/2011 3:41:09 AM)
He screwed up on the static units. If he activated them and then tried to move them, it won't work because in that condition, they can't enter enemy territory the rest of the turn they become active. If he had left them in static, they could have moved the one square and reestablished communication. Also a major mistake not to press you in the south. Your defense looks efficient in the south with Germans up front defending and Axis minors where they belong.. digging. [:D] I assume the Rumanians are in the Crimea?

Mynok -> RE: The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/27/2011 5:37:42 AM)
Anything can move 1 hex.

fiva55 -> RE: The original plan for our Summer offensive (3/27/2011 9:39:31 AM)
Jajusha admitted the oversight. Ah well, in all honesty, it would have mattered little. Should he have moved to that hex, my mot. units would have taken it the next turn, sealing the gap permanently. Perhaps he was just busy trying to reinforce the Finnish Border to pay attention to that hex. quote: Original: Jajusha Wow, you actually managed to squeze to the fin border! I was reluctant on having tank corps on reserve as they could rout and clear the way further, but to think you managed to squeze inside 5 zones of control and still fight! Well,looks like Leningrad is going down, just when we are starting September. The lack of rails, the static north front, but specially your deception in the south where critical for this( or i was too blind to see anything else then Stalingrad must not fall in the first turns) I don't want to help you any further, but i can't stop but noticing you had ALOT of air support to clear the Ilmen-Volochek pocket, but none to help the panzers. I think you spent all your air miles while clearing the pocket (as it was the first actions in the turn, correct me if i'm wrong). I try to disable air support when doing such trivial missions (just press D, select ground support off) then turn it back on for the real fight. Again, i "think" this was what happened, but the panzers could just be outside of air range. I'll try to get one more turn done today, i have too much to do and too little AP, at the start of your northern offensive my lines where a messed colored puzzle with so many units railed away from their hqs and fronts, and tank corps cost 15(!) AP to relocate hq's if the leader misses the admin roll. Notice that my opponent remains sportive and is even giving me tips to further destroy his forces :P. quote: Original: Klydon I assume the Rumanians are in the Crimea? Indeed, and I believe some of them are roaming the countryside hunting partisans together with the Italians.

fiva55 -> The remaining summer days (3/27/2011 9:07:30 PM)
The remaining summer days will be spend consolidating our positions. 18th, 16th and 11th army have been tasked to clean up the entrapped troops of Volkhov Front and Leningrad Front, while keeping the northern sector secure. Meanwhile, 4th Panzer Army, also know as the "Iron fist of Germany", has gained a fearsome reputation both within our own army as with the Soviets. Largely responsible for trapping Kalanin, Volkhov and Leningrad front, they have been the cause of many headaches for our Soviet opponent. It has been rumored that Stalin himself has forbidden his generals to mention 4th Panzer Army when they report to him. Finally getting some well earned rest, they have been pulled back from the frontlines for some much needed refitting. 13th panzer division and the only 3 infantry divisions of 4th Panzer Army have been detached and will be relocated to Army Group South to act as a reserve. The remaining divisions will stay under 4th Panzer Army and act as a strategic reserve, ready to counter any major Soviet offensive. No reason was given by OKH why specifically 13th panzer division, aka the "Iron Coffins division" has been chosen to be removed from 4th Panzer Army. Though there are whispers that they where ghosted away to a quiet sector in order to not tarnish the reputation of 4th Panzer with their poor performance during the summer offensive. The commander of 13th Panzer has complained about their treatment, claiming that the name of their division attracts bad luck. He has repeatedly petitioned for a name change, so far without success. Before the remains of the last strongholds of the Soviets, tankcrew of 4th Panzer army finally have a chance to rest. [image]local://upfiles/37788/0DC9DCE7AAA643D1B5869E5F0582DC4A.jpg[/image]

Jajusha -> RE: The remaining summer days (3/28/2011 2:05:22 AM)
Well, fiva allowed me to take a look at the ARR for a couple of turns. As demonstrated, it's been a brutal brutal 42 for my soviet forces. Just let me to put some of my perspective on what happened till now: First 3 turns my AP was all spend on the southern theater, expecting a traditional drive to Stalingrad, it was, if i'm not mistaken the start of turn 3 that i spotted 2 panzer divisions and 1 mot division near Rzev, and i moved what little forces i had there out of STATIC mode to try to dissuade any minor (or so i thought) german move. quote: ORIGINAL: fiva55 Damnation, perhaps lady luck really left us when our Führer died. A month of planning, weeks of carefully assembling the forces and all our losses sustained by our diversionary attack in the South, all ruined because of a lucky Soviet recon plane.... Still, most of our armoured forces have arrived, and there is no need to camouflage our efforts now. Now is the time to trust the skill and courage of the German soldier! German forces ready to break through Soviet reinforced lines [image]local://upfiles/37788/D1231C2A19144DB4A334EAB1CF2C88CD.jpg[/image] The surprise was total. The ruse in the south had me convinced fiva would try a panzer dash across the donnets. Why not? Perfect weather, perfect terrain, soviets bashed into disarray from turn 1 and 2 skirmishes, perfect oportunity to cross such major riverlines. When the panzers struck i was left with cold reality. I was fighting a war against an invisible enemy in the south. And everything from Tula to Leningrad was still in Static mode. Was he moving for Moskow next? Or the fin border? Should i start activating the moskow front, or my Volkhov front? Even worst was the situation i was facing. Reeinforcements would take 2 turns to be ready to bolster Moscow's defenses, or 3 turns to anything north of it: [image]local://upfiles/36976/C5DB5A206C2B42ACBE1AF6E84E45C6D5.jpg[/image] I was left with the very long Grey Railroad. Reinforcements where arriving too late and with too little MP, fiva was always 1 turn ahead. Retreating fronts was not an option with the limited AP, all that was left was a bad rail connection, ragtag infantry division and brigades and armored corps that could not dream of facing a panzer division head on.

Jajusha -> RE: The remaining summer days (3/28/2011 2:18:53 AM)
All i can do now is congratulate my opponent on this bold 42. Summer has departed, there are no super soviets or weak germans as in 41, but general Winter has always been kind to my side. I'm leaving the AAR again in a couple of turns but i hope to come before the start of spring mud (if my opponent allows) for another report from the other side of the fence.

Q-Ball -> RE: The remaining summer days (3/28/2011 4:09:22 AM)
I think that's the right strategy on the '42 campaign; the Soviet player is really in a pickle up north, because of the crazy salients, and all the units are STATIC. Especially all the units being STATIC; mobilizing them would cost a huge amount of trucks. In a GC game, the Soviets won't be in that type of position

Klydon -> RE: The remaining summer days (3/28/2011 5:41:25 AM)
I happen to be playing a 42 campaign as the Russian. In hind site, I would do some things differently, but from what I have seen, you can activate your infantry without too much of an issue as far as trucks go. They take about 30 trucks each, so you can do a bunch. Also, you have a lot more army HQ's than you need and disbanding some of those will help along with disbanding tank brigades. I would not bother activating any tank brigades or tank corps either. Form the infantry up into corps (guards corps as much as possible) and start pounding. It won't be fast or fancy, but gives the heavy grinding attack the Russians are famous for. The other thing the Russians have to figure out is how to get their Shock armies on line as quickly as they can. The extra moral absolutely helps. (I basically had a regular army move in to take over for one of the Shock armies in the front and the Volkhov front Shock army was one of the first ones I got going).

Infanteer -> RE: The remaining summer days (3/28/2011 5:54:20 AM)
What's the reasoning of the scenario to have all those units in static?

Tarhunnas -> RE: The remaining summer days (3/28/2011 7:12:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball I think that's the right strategy on the '42 campaign; the Soviet player is really in a pickle up north, because of the crazy salients, and all the units are STATIC. Especially all the units being STATIC; mobilizing them would cost a huge amount of trucks. In a GC game, the Soviets won't be in that type of position It's not as bad as it seems. The Soviets have plenty of reserves in the Moscow area. That's where they expected the German attack. Not all of these are static. There are several reserve armies behind the front. While these are for the most part static, they can be activated rather cheaply as long as you keep to the infantry. And even static units can be moved one hex, which actually gives more mobility than you would expect. It is always possible to "pull the string" and move the entire front laterally one hex in any direction (not very realistic, but very possible in game) and the reserve armies can be spread out so that they are less bunched and present more of an obstacle to breakthroughs.

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