Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (Full Version)

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fiva55 -> Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (4/2/2011 2:53:11 PM)

4th panzer ones more comes to the rescue. In the sector manned by the infantry remnants of 3rd panzer,
they manage to skilfully surround and trap 6 enemy tankcorps, who got too confident due to the lack of resistance from 3rd panzer.

Meanwhile, in the north, the one corps on loan to 2nd Panzer, widens the gap in the Soviet lines with an additional 30 miles.
A swift pincer movement is now impossible, but instead we will use the the hammer and anvil tactic.
With 18th Army acting as the anvil and 2nd Panzer as the hammer,
it is hoped that we will finally be able to close off the salient.
Just 50 miles now remain between 18th Army and 2nd Panzer Army.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/D4652FAA620540AEA68B9FC70DA8C082.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (4/2/2011 2:59:55 PM)

Wow. If you can make those 6 tank corps surrender, that is a lot of command points down the drain and some serious damage to his tank force formations.

Looks like he is being stubborn about giving up that salient. No real reason to keep it and given how many counters he has had come off the board, I would think he would be a bit more cautious on risking yet another batch of counters. The other thing is I have no idea why the Russians would be spending points on forts at this point. Defensively, they are worthless and for 1 more point, he could by a much more flexible brigade.



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (4/2/2011 3:16:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Wow. If you can make those 6 tank corps surrender, that is a lot of command points down the drain and some serious damage to his tank force formations.

Looks like he is being stubborn about giving up that salient. No real reason to keep it and given how many counters he has had come off the board, I would think he would be a bit more cautious on risking yet another batch of counters. The other thing is I have no idea why the Russians would be spending points on forts at this point. Defensively, they are worthless and for 1 more point, he could by a much more flexible brigade.



I will just spoil it and say that most of the corps got away. He's got too many high quality units in that area that are able to push away my panzer divisions. As for damaging his tank forces, I feel like that is an impossible task. I'm getting 10:1 kill ratio's when our tank forces engage, but his numbers just keep rising while mine keeps dwindling...

As for the salient, perhaps he just wants to burn up my forces. By now, I'm already too committed to call of the plan. As long as he stays there, I can't pull back 2nd Panzer and refit it. The way my tank numbers are dwindling is just too depressing...

The forts were probably a stopgap since his border guards were routed the first turn 18th Army attacked. With no rail to quickly reinforce the area and no town to build a brigade, the ability to pop a fort on any hex you own is pretty handy. It delayed my advance for a few turns at least.

Edit: Does anyone know what triggers the split of Army Group south into 2 separate army groups, I could really use it.





Klydon -> RE: Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (4/2/2011 3:26:45 PM)

Need Azov, Bataysk and Manych to get it early or March 1943, you get it automatically. 



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (4/2/2011 5:34:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Need Azov, Bataysk and Manych to get it early or March 1943, you get it automatically. 


Nice. Too bad it cost 100 AP to transfer an army.



karonagames -> RE: Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (4/2/2011 5:39:02 PM)

quote:

Nice. Too bad it cost 100 AP to transfer an army.



The armies that were in AGS should change to OKH when AGA and AGB arrive, so you can assign the armies for free.



fiva55 -> Turn 32-33: The slow way north (4/2/2011 5:48:19 PM)

What was supposed to be a clean and fast operation, nothing more then a tactical exercise for the men of 2nd Panzer, has developed into a full offensive.
Both side pour their best men into the melee, hoping to come out on top.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/8ECC2F3E113942889A0B71DCAEC10C22.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> Battle of Rzhev (4/2/2011 10:13:56 PM)

Battle of Rzhev

Background
The battle of Rzhev was an offensive operation in the central sector of the Eastern Front,
undertaken by 4th Panzer Army, in and around the Town of Rzhev, in the first week of January 1943.

This area of the front, held by 3rd Panzer army, had been terrorized by large numbers of Soviets armour during the dying months of 1942,
and was at the verge of collapsing. In response to this, OKH dispatched 4th Panzer Army,
still understrength from the Kaluga offensive, to stabilize the situation.

German Forces
At the time of the operation, Hoth could count on the 4th Panzer army, with the XXIV and III Panzer corps,
totalling a number of 6 panzer divisions and 3 motorized divisions.
The third Panzer corps, XXXXVIII Panzer Corps, though originally also intended for this operation,
was diverted to the northern sector at the last moment to help out operation Redemption.

Red Army
A large concentration of armoured forces, consisting out of at least 6 tank corps, had been harassing 3rd Panzer's front lines all winter long.
Begin January 1943, they finally managed to capture the town of Rzhev in fierce city fighting, suffering heavy losses.
At the time of the operation, they had positioned themselves in and around Rzhev, their flanks secured by several infantry divisions.

Hoth's Attack
The German plan of attack was simple:
XXIV Panzer Corps would strike at the infantry that held the flanks of the first Soviet armour concentration located in Rzhev,
thus isolating Rzhev and its defenders.
Once that was achieved, the III Panzer Korps would repeat the process a few miles north of Rzhev,
where a similar concentration of armour could be found.

Result
The German plan went according to plan, and the shocked Soviet infantry fled en masse at the sudden sight of the German armour.
Within hours the first objective was completed, and not long after the second concentration of armour was also encircled an isolated.
It looked like the Germans achieved a great tactical victory, eliminating a great part of Soviet offensive power in the area.
The Germans however had underestimated the Soviets. No longer was the Soviet Army the rabble of 1941, which, once encircled,
waited for German infantry to get mopped up.
A breakout, coordinated with a relief attempt outside the encirclement was attempted and succeeded.
Despite suffering heavy tank losses, 5 of the 6 Soviet tanks corps would live to fight another day.


[image]local://upfiles/37788/AB8D7318F7DD42B1849F33613B02EF37.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 31: 4th Panzer lives up to its reputation (4/2/2011 10:19:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

quote:

Nice. Too bad it cost 100 AP to transfer an army.



The armies that were in AGS should change to OKH when AGA and AGB arrive, so you can assign the armies for free.


Ty for the info, makes planning a summer offensive much easier.



fiva55 -> RE: Battle of Rzhev (4/2/2011 10:37:00 PM)

Damn, looking back I really shouldn't have send XXXXVIII Panzer Corps to the north, where they are getting pushed through the meatgrinder by those annoying red and shiny guard units of Jajusha. The blessing of hindsight I guess.



Klydon -> RE: Battle of Rzhev (4/3/2011 4:22:07 AM)

Still not seeing Russian infantry corps running around, which is good for you at this point.

Really, really good AAR. [&o]



fiva55 -> RE: Battle of Rzhev (4/3/2011 7:38:58 AM)

Thanks Klydon. I have indeed counted few rifle corps. Atm I just see one pushing in the south, I will give a update of that sector soon.

And here a post from Jajusha, just to show you that the battle for Rzhev wasn't just my imaginations [:D].

------------------------------
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jajusha
Intercepted soviet communication (translated)
"1st Guards Army is to stop preparations for Rzhev offensive and deploy to #static# Front immediately. 20th Army to take its place. Rzhev must be liberated."

I had around 1200 tanks (60% of them t-34) in that offensive: the full force of my 5th Tank Army. What was supposed to be the supporting infantry had been shifted to another front 2 turns before (1st Guards Army, the best that I have around) and in its place I left the not less valorous 20th army.

You (the Germans) made an organized withdrawal from Rzhev, leaving a couple of units behind for my tank corps to engage. The town and the rail line north of it where objectives, and my intel failed to detect any German forces worthy of note. I never saw it coming, the shock was brutal. The 20th army, far from being rookie fighters, where not of the level of the 1st Guards, and I had 6 tank corps isolated in a panzer curtain. It was only diverting 2 extra tank corps that where nearby that, in conjunction with 4 rifle divisions I managed to regain contact with the isolated tanks and pull those still able back into a better position. In the end, I lost not only Rzhev but a great part of 5th Tank Army.

We are now in the starting months of 43 and I still don't feel like the initiative is mine. I don't think ill be pulling a "Kursk" anytime soon.


---------------------------
On the sidenote, the winter is nearing its end, and I will soon invite Jajusha back. Should you have questions for him or me, gameplay tips for either of us, or just want to make some small talk, feel free to save it up and ask them then.



fiva55 -> Turn 34: Walls of Iron (4/4/2011 8:51:13 AM)

In the north, 18th Army and 2nd Panzer are slowly but relentlessly pushing towards each other. By now, only 20 miles remains, and Soviet guard divisions are once more called upon to hold open a corridor as long as possible.

In the southern sector, the Soviets have been extremely careful. Assault troops are rotated by the week, ensuring that no weak spot can be found in their front. Although their progress is slow, they have finally been able to reach the third defensive line. But then, finally, 3 Soviet guard division overextend themselves, and von Kleist has been authorized to counter attack and isolate this spearhead.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/C98F8C069ECD43E982ABF08DB8B7E00F.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> Micromanaging (4/4/2011 9:10:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aditia
Even tho I don't like the whole "most units in static mode", this seems to be one hell of a fun scenario (and maybe without less micromanaging than the 41-45 campaign?).


As I said before, it totally depends on how much you are willing to micromanage. But I have since changed to micromanaging even more aspects of the game, since I noticed the increased rate of failed defence and attacks now that the Soviets are getting more and better toys. (Or perhaps I just don't want to admit failure:P).

In any case, spread over the last few turns I have done the following things:
-Every frontline infantry corps HQ gets at least 3 artillery batallions, 1 mixed flak battallion and 1 constructions battallion

-Every Panzer corps HQ gets 1 nebelwerfer regiment or 2 nebelwerfer battalions and 1 mixed flak battalion.

-Panzer corps HQ leaders have been replaced whenever possible

-Every Panzer division has at least one pioneer battalion, every motorized division has at least one pioneer battalion and one stug battalion

-Whenever possible I have ensured that armies and corps aren't over their command limit.

-Stugs and pioneers attached at infantry corps HQ of non vital sectors have been pulled back to OKH. They are too
be deployed in threatened sectors and will be pulled back to OKH once the threat is over.

Obviously turns have been taking a lot longer, and there is no immediate effect of increased hold defenses are successful attacks, but I will see how it works out. I would like to have set the support level to zero to make all support units go back to OKH, but that would mean turns where some sectors would have been deprived of their SU. So I had to do it manually, which took a lot of time.



fiva55 -> Turn 35: A black day (4/4/2011 10:23:52 AM)

Time: second week of February 1943
Location: Southern sector, front held by 1st Panzer Army

Having just recently cut off 3 Soviet guard divisions, the tanks and men of 1st Panzer are now holding the line against the inevitable relief attempt by the Soviets. These relief attempts have been getting more successful lately, but the men of 1st panzer feel confident. They are well rested, having been allowed to refit over the winter. Each panzer division has over a 100 tanks, and they are supported by a large number of nebelwerfers.

The sector is quiet, silent before the storm. Then the first figures can be seen appearing on the horizon. Though they cannot be identified, it is almost certainly the enemy. Hold your fire, the tank commanders order, allow the enemy to get closer. 1000 meter, 800 meter, 600 meter, then the order to open fire is given. High explosive shells rip through the dense formations of enemy infantry, machine gun fire cuts through the Soviet infantry like a knife through butter. Soviet losses are mounting, but they keep on coming.

Support fire is called in, surely our nebelwerfers will make short work of the enemy? 10 minutes, then 30 minutes pass, and still the characteristically whoosh sound of incoming rockets cannot be heard. HQ is contacted once again, where the hell is our fire support? Then bad news comes: the nebelwerfers are malfunctioning because of the low temperature, and the men of 1st panzer are on their own.

Hold the line until reserves can be brought forward, HQ orders 1st Panzer. But by then, the enemy infantry is already well within grenade throwing range. Ammo is running low and losses are mounting. A retreat is ordered.
At first, the withdrawal is organized. Rearguard actions delay the Soviets, inflicting heavy casualties.

Then disaster strikes once again. The trucks of one of the motorized divisions have broken down, and the men are now on foot. Panic begins to spread through their ranks. The last drop makes the bucket spill: a squadron of enemy ground attacks planes appear in the air above the retreating men, and starts strafing the infantry. A rout ensues. Men climb on the tanks, desperate to start get away. Organized resistance falters, and the tanks starts retreating west as fast as possible.

In the end, over 200 tanks are lost in a week fighting. Even more importantly, this is the first battle where a division of the proud panzer armies was so lost in panic that it routed. A black day for Germany's armed forces indeed.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/EF975490E97C4110A02E0B2A49E410D4.jpg[/image]



Tarhunnas -> RE: Turn 35: A black day (4/4/2011 12:33:42 PM)

Three deep stacks behind the foremost stack will ensure a rout in case of a retreat, but I guess you know that? This is typically a bigger problem for the Soviets, as the Germans seldom have the need to mass three units in a hex.



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 35: A black day (4/4/2011 12:41:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

Three deep stacks behind the foremost stack will ensure a rout in case of a retreat, but I guess you know that? This is typically a bigger problem for the Soviets, as the Germans seldom have the need to mass three units in a hex.


Ugh I knew. I played the turn last night after my evening shift, and got too careless. I believe it was also described as victory disease in one of the AARs. Whatever the reason, I made a mistake. Still, at least it made for a good story :P.



fiva55 -> Turn 35: the last encirclement (4/4/2011 12:56:39 PM)

Not all is bad news. After the setbacks in the south, von Manstein messages OKH with some good news. 2nd Panzer and 18th Army have finally met. After months of campaigning, operation Redemption finally come to an end. 17 Soviet infantry divisions and 1 tank brigade are now encircled, and the only question is whether the Soviets will manage to break them out.

Tanks of 2nd Panzer are finally able to link up with 18th Army in this small unknown village.
It's too early for celebrating though, for a relief attempt will certainly be made by the Soviets.
These tanks therefore remain vigilant, expecting a counter attack any moment.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/EEE019CAF4DD4C0D8206EC10C1B07311.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> Turn 36: The pocket holds (4/4/2011 11:32:58 PM)

Desperate relief attempts have been mounted, but the Soviets were unable to break their entrapped comrades out. More then a 100 tanks on each side have been lost during these fights, but in the end the ring stayed closed.

Mopping up operations began as soon as possible, and the pocket was cleared within the week. Result: around 100.000 enemy prisoners.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/ECFAC9F32247481198CB1063519F4858.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> Turn 37: Seeing is believing (4/4/2011 11:38:30 PM)

Though it is clear that the Soviet army of 1943 is on a whole new dimension compared to the men we faced in 1941, seeing is believing. The earliest attempts to break through our southern defences relied on mass numbers, but nowadays these have been replaced with organized attacks by a skilled enemy. Having detected the assembly of one such formation, a preventive attack has been ordered.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/4D28FD1AE732485DA7C7AFFFA5869EE1.jpg[/image]



Mynok -> RE: Turn 37: Seeing is believing (4/5/2011 3:00:58 AM)


Nice use of reserves on offense. Need to learn to do that better.



fiva55 -> Turn 38-39: The last winter weeks (4/6/2011 12:31:59 PM)

With the winter ending, all offensive operations have been halted, and our Panzer Armies have been tasked with stabilizing our frontlines wherever needed.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/AA92DE0614F242B2AD25E1E69145F6BC.jpg[/image]



karonagames -> RE: Turn 38-39: The last winter weeks (4/6/2011 12:37:54 PM)

@fiva55. Could you post a screenshot of the current OOB numbers. Thanks.



fiva55 -> Turn 38-39: The soviet infantry (4/6/2011 12:45:28 PM)

Casualties have been mounting these last weeks, mainly due to the resilience and the skill of the Soviet infantry. Like the growing number of enemy tanks, Soviet infantry outnumber us everywhere at least 2 to 1. Unlike the tank battles though, where we regularly get 10:1 kills ratio's in our favour, the Soviet infantry is more then a equal to our forces. These days, even counter attacks to beat off local incursions inflict heavy casualties on our side.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/B57907BD1819482AAB955BD4E2A1C729.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 38-39: The last winter weeks (4/6/2011 12:46:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

@fiva55. Could you post a screenshot of the current OOB numbers. Thanks.


Will do once my turn returns. I will post some other statistics as well. Any more specific requests?



karonagames -> RE: Turn 38-39: The last winter weeks (4/6/2011 12:51:31 PM)

It would help to get an idea of how you have managed your manpower and armaments points. As you have seen in the other thread, Tarhunnas left this late, and has a shortage of rifle squads. How have you monitored and managed your rifle squads?



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 38-39: The last winter weeks (4/6/2011 1:00:23 PM)

Infantry TOE and Panzer TOE have been set to 55%. Artillery, anti air and anti tank TOE set to 60%, rocket TOE left at 100%.

The first winter weeks I set my entire army in refit mode, giving me an average of 600k replacement coming in every week, but dropping my armanents pool to 560 points. I tried experimenting, and just put my unready infantry divisions in refit mode. That doubled my armanents pool to around 1100 points, but halved my replacements coming in to 300k. I will probably change back to refitting my entire army.

Rifle squads, I had around 16k of them, few turns back I checked, but I will have to check again when my turn comes back.



fiva55 -> Effect of weather on combat (4/6/2011 3:40:49 PM)

Can anyone tell me the effect of weather on combat. I know it effects MP and air missions, but can't seem to find any documentation of it's effect on CV.



fiva55 -> Turn 40-42: Frontline map (4/6/2011 4:28:43 PM)

Winter has ended, and the front is more or less quiet. With both sides building up their strength for the coming summer, OKH decides to release the statistics of the winter of 42/43 for all to study.

Starting with the frontline map:

[image]local://upfiles/37788/111538F233D2499DB27CBFE324F1C7ED.jpg[/image]



Jajusha -> RE: Turn 40-42: Frontline map (4/6/2011 4:52:11 PM)

Mud months comming in. In the end, i couldn't reach Stalino, and the buffer area around Muscow only grew in the north. The major factor for me have been AP points and Infantry divisions. After losing so many infantry units in the summer of 42 my lines are thiner then i would like and I'm struggling to replace inf divisions and still be able to build Arty divisions. It was becoming easier and easier to move Fivas defensive lines in these final turns, but winter MP rules and his mobile panzer haven't allowed any great "adventures" on my side.

In the far north, i could have done a gamey maneuver a long time ago: moving all my lines 1 square away from the finish no move line. Only thing i would be losing would be Cherepovets, and the fins would no longer be a problem. But, i really dislike the idea of exploiting this no move line.

At this pace, taking Berlin in 45 is become more and more remote, but the full 43 is still to be played, let's see what i can muster.




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