Turn 40-42: Statistics (Full Version)

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fiva55 -> Turn 40-42: Statistics (4/6/2011 6:09:42 PM)

Time: April 1943
Location: OKH Meeting Room

Gathered in this room are all the important frontline commanders. The lack of politicians is noticeable, it seems that they have not been invited. Today the plans for the coming summer will be discussed among these peers, by now all veterans of the eastern front.

The reports are handed out. Silence ensues while the generals start reading. Time ticks away. There is no outcry of disbelief this time. These men are realist. Having faced the Soviets for almost 2 continuously years, even the most optimistic ones among the generals realize that they have awakened a sleeping bear by invading the Soviet Union.

Then, the last of the generals finnish reading the report. A discussion starts, what should we do the coming summer?
Perhaps a new summer offensive? Or should we remain in the defensive, hoping that the Soviet sue for peace once we have destroyed enough of their forces? The discussion drags on. It is clear that the matter won't be resolved this day. The meeting ends without clear plans for the summer. For now, the generals have decided, we shall rebuild our forces. A new meeting in May will have to finalize our plans for the summer.

Summary of report handed out during the meeting

[image]local://upfiles/37788/9C09E7A0D07444B4B3F93F557077114C.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: Turn 40-42: Statistics (4/6/2011 7:17:40 PM)

Looks like you are hanging in there. It is also clear the Red Air Force is gonna be a lot bigger factor in 1943 than in 1942.

I think you have to come up with something to try to keep him on the ropes over his command point shortage in creating the units he needs to get things rolling the "Red Army" way.



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 40-42: Statistics (4/6/2011 9:02:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Looks like you are hanging in there. It is also clear the Red Air Force is gonna be a lot bigger factor in 1943 than in 1942.

I think you have to come up with something to try to keep him on the ropes over his command point shortage in creating the units he needs to get things rolling the "Red Army" way.



Indeed, I'm facing an interesting 1943. The quality of troops on both sides are almost equal by now , but the Red army clearly outnumbers me. Luckily, I'm still holding a relatively short front, and the mud should allow my infantry and armour to restore most of their strength.

Can't do much about their air force unfortunately, their interdiction is really hurting me. Just lost over 1000 men to an interdiction when I moved a division a few hexes to redeploy.

The only way to make a chance by now is make a few good encirclements, but those are hard to make. We will see how it works out, I intend to play it out until the end.



Jajusha -> RE: Turn 40-42: Statistics (4/7/2011 12:26:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Looks like you are hanging in there. It is also clear the Red Air Force is gonna be a lot bigger factor in 1943 than in 1942.

I think you have to come up with something to try to keep him on the ropes over his command point shortage in creating the units he needs to get things rolling the "Red Army" way.



Indeed, I'm facing an interesting 1943. The quality of troops on both sides are almost equal by now , but the Red army clearly outnumbers me. Luckily, I'm still holding a relatively short front, and the mud should allow my infantry and armour to restore most of their strength.

Can't do much about their air force unfortunately, their interdiction is really hurting me. Just lost over 1000 men to an interdiction when I moved a division a few hexes to redeploy.

The only way to make a chance by now is make a few good encirclements, but those are hard to make. We will see how it works out, I intend to play it out until the end.


Fivas doing a great job preventing my "engine" to start working the way i like it. It's going to be a hot summer...



fiva55 -> Turn 43-44: Restructuring OOB (4/7/2011 10:31:12 PM)

In the last weeks of April, mud ensures that the front remains calm. OKH decides to take the opportunity to restructure our OOB.

From north to south:

Finnish High Cmd
Aunus Fin. Army
Kannas Fin. Army

Army Group North
18th Army
9th Army
3rd Panzer Army

Army Group Center
2nd Panzer Army
4th Army
16th Army
2nd Army

Army Group A
4th Panzer Army
2nd Hun. Army

Army Group B
1st Panzer Army
6th Army
17th Army

OKH Reserve
3rd Rum. Army


The mud season returns to Russia, halting all offensive operations for now.
[image]local://upfiles/37788/BAC76793B9D7416A9780B8D8C963F841.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> Turn 45: The first summer week (4/7/2011 10:37:30 PM)

Entering May, the first summer week of the year. No German offensive operations have been planned this month. With our experts predicting mud every other week this month, any operations will just be bogged down in the mud. The Soviets unfortunately, will be able to exploit this by attacking in clear weather, followed up by mud, preventing us to counter any successful Soviet attack.

Southern sector, with the best what the Soviet army has. It seems likely that the decisive battle of the summer of 1943 will be fought in front of the gates of Stalino.
[image]local://upfiles/37788/E118200DDEFD4EE19179520473E3B858.jpg[/image]



Mynok -> RE: Turn 45: The first summer week (4/7/2011 10:45:36 PM)


Have you recon'd behind his lines? I'd expect a lot more reserves with that kind of hammer setting up in front.



fiva55 -> Turn 46: The Soviets strike (4/7/2011 11:05:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Have you recon'd behind his lines? I'd expect a lot more reserves with that kind of hammer setting up in front.


I did recon, but forgot to take a screenshot. I have one of turn 46 though.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It is as we feared. The Soviets made the best use of the clear weather, and launched probing assault all over the front. Results: 12 Held/11 Retreated. Those places that we were forced to retreat though, were almost all in the most important sector, south.

First week of May: The Soviets managed to launch 4 successful attacks on 17th army and 1st Panzer Army. They even succeeded in destroying our fortifications across the river Mius, which will allow them to advance much easier in the coming summer months.
[image]local://upfiles/37788/3A5AD01CDFF0490091BFCA6E9C9F6C17.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> Turn 47: The good and bad news (4/8/2011 9:55:57 PM)

Seemingly not content with their task of keeping our rear areas secure, the Italians have decided to mass withdraw. That wouldn´t be too bad, if not for the fact that we now have to thin our frontlines in order to free some troops to suppress the ever present partisans.
[image]http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/2939/withdrawingitalians.jpg[/image]


Not all is bad news though. With both the quality and the number of Soviet tanks increasing by the day, the frontline troops will be glad to see these new weapons of war:

[image]http://img857.imageshack.us/img857/4835/panthers.jpg[/image]
Much is expected of the new Panzer V Panther that is currently being rushed off the production line to help stop the onslaught of Soviet armour. Designed by the best of what Germany has to offer, it is hoped that this tank will become the new mainstream tank of our Panzer Armies.


[image]http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/1628/bundesarchivbild101i698.jpg[/image]
Finally having realized the antitank potential of the FlaK 41 88 mm AA gun, the newly designed Pak43 will support our infantry to fight off the numerous Soviet tanks.



[image]http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/3808/fredinand40nj2mj.jpg[/image]
This monstrous tank destroyer, nicknamed Elefant, is equiped with an 88 mm Panzerabwehrkanone (PaK) 43/2 L/71 gun.It is hoped that this impressive looking tank will provide us with the winning edge in any future tank battle.




fiva55 -> Turn 47: The cost of counter attacking (4/9/2011 8:27:47 PM)

The Soviets prove to be resilient not only in attack but also in defence. Counter-attacks cost us almost as many casualties as the losses we inflict on the enemy.
[image]local://upfiles/37788/724E436DD8C049B584F49EC38F759208.jpg[/image]


Following this, a new strategy for the remaining summer months has been devised. No counter attacks will be made in any sector except the south. Army group North and Center are allowed to trade ground for time. It is in the south that we hope to achieve a decisive victory that will hopefully blunt the offensive strength of the Soviets for the remainder of 1943.

Years later, Manstein would describe our strategy in his memoirs as the following:
quote:

Von Manstein, Lost Victories, Chapter 14

The German command thus had very little time left in which to force a draw in the east. It
could only do so if it succeeded, within the framework of a - now inevitable - strategic
defensive, in dealing the enemy powerful blows of a localized character which would sap his
strength to a decisive degree - first and foremost through losses in prisoners. This presupposed
an operational elasticity on our part which would give maximum effect to the still superior
quality of the German command staffs and fighting troops.



fiva55 -> Turn 48: 40.000 Germans encircled (4/9/2011 10:32:53 PM)

It seems that our intelligence was right. In the third week of May, the Soviets launch a major offensive in the southern sector. Unfortunately for us, they concentrated their attacks not on 17th Army, but on 2nd Army and 2nd Hun. Army. Taking advantage of the last days of clear weather before muds returns, the Soviets attack in force in this previously quiet sector of the front. Taken completely by surprise, 4 german division are now completely encircled, while their chance of rescue is made harder because of the mud.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/6D416A84A05247388E64BB22C34A8B8C.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: Turn 48: 40.000 Germans encircled (4/9/2011 11:13:34 PM)

Ugh, but very nice job by the Russian in this case to take advantage of the weather. 



Aditia -> RE: Turn 48: 40.000 Germans encircled (4/9/2011 11:38:43 PM)

A lot of turns played and finally some Soviet succes. Gotta hand it to Jajusha for tenacity



Mynok -> RE: Turn 48: 40.000 Germans encircled (4/9/2011 11:59:23 PM)


You won't be relieving those guys with those CVs.



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 48: 40.000 Germans encircled (4/10/2011 8:23:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


You won't be relieving those guys with those CVs.



True, that's why I committed my strategic reserve



fiva55 -> Turn 48: Going out with a bang (4/10/2011 8:35:25 PM)

Feeling deadly tired atm with 2 early shifts this weekend and not enough hours of sleep.
So this will be a short update:
---------------------

The northern pocket (3 divisions) was freed by using one well refitted corps of 2nd army, but the southern pocket (1 div) forced us to commit one panzercorps of our strategic reserve.

Anyway, if Germany is really destined to lose in a slow attrition war with the Soviet Union, we might as well go out with one last bang. Hoping that the mud will force the Soviet recon planes on the ground, a trap has been set for the spearheads of the Soviets...

[image]local://upfiles/37788/592579E6D0CF4EE4B88E8A09346A06E7.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 2:24:52 PM)

The Soviet commander seems to be a cautious man, and reinforces his position rather then advancing further into the German lines. Still, instead of pulling back our reserves and wait for a new Soviet offensive, OKH authorizes a limited counter attack to raise the morale of the German Army. We may have been weakened, but we are still a force to be considered.

With a cv ranging from an average of 14 to 20, the divisions of 4th Panzer Army and 2nd Panzer Army strike into the flank of the Soviet spearhead. Though they encounter heavy resistance (stacks with a defensive value from 50 to 70), they manage to cut off the enemy most forward units. The question now remains whether the Soviets have enough forces to free their entrapped comrades
[image]local://upfiles/37788/2C7507398CC0477AA0E20B69E9150B15.jpg[/image]

Tiger tanks leading the counter attack.
Not hindered by the terrain or bad weather,
these tanks would prove invaluable while
racking up an amazing number of enemy tank kills
[image]http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/4857/432pxbundesarchivbild14.jpg[/image]



Mynok -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 3:52:03 PM)


Ouch. That will put a hurt on him if it holds. Some valuable stuff in that pocket.



DTurtle -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 4:57:13 PM)

Hmm, looking at the CV values it seems quite possible to me that he could break out to the NW and E of the pocket and isolate a significant part of your forces there.



Mynok -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 6:00:02 PM)


Those CVs should drop significantly for the Soviet turn as they will be isolated. It is still possible that there is enough punch in the other Soviets to relieve the pocket though.



Tarhunnas -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 6:45:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Those CVs should drop significantly for the Soviet turn as they will be isolated. It is still possible that there is enough punch in the other Soviets to relieve the pocket though.



I would say not likely he can punch through a 2 deep line. Any bets? [;)]



Aditia -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 6:47:24 PM)

Yeah, counter attacking in 1943 is costly. My opponent tells me that most of the units I rout are back in the frontline next turn :(



Klydon -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 9:57:56 PM)

Nice job there! At least 3 tank corps and some guards units. That should sting a bit. 



Q-Ball -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 10:05:26 PM)

I am closely following this AAR, to see if Fiva and team run into the same problem Tarhunnas did: Huge Armament shortage problem, followed by Wehrmacht collapse.

The stats from the post at the top look ominous; already 400K in the German Manpower pool. Your overall numbers are still OK, but let's see how that looks in July/August.

Fiva, if you haven't already, I would consider disbanding some Arillery and Flak units to conserve armaments. Limit construction of Fortified Zones.

Like Tarhunnas, you played a very good 1942, destroying nearly 200 Rifle Divisions, and piles of other formations. You are about to add more to the bag. Despite this, I predict a similar result:

A grinding early summer, with your Rifle strength dipping below 10,000 squads, followed by collapse in late 1943/early 1944

Hope I'm wrong, though.....



fiva55 -> Turn 50: Massive tankbattles (4/11/2011 10:27:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Nice job there! At least 3 tank corps and some guards units. That should sting a bit. 


There were 9 tank corps, most of them guards. Unfortunately, he had several more outside the encirclement.......
------------------------------------------
Trying to relieve their entrapped comrades, the Soviet throw in several more guard tank corps. A massive tank battle ensues. For the first time both side put their newest model tanks to the test. The first few days it seems that the quality of our men and tanks will prevail, but in the end their numbers overwhelm our panzers and we are forced to retreat. Within a week, we manage to cause at least 1300 tank kills, but at the loss of 500 of our own precious panzers.

Situation begin of turn 50
[image]http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2632/turn50.jpg[/image]


The Soviets, seemingly trying to demoralize our brave soldiers, have dropped pamphlets of the latest battle results over our frontlines. They also seem to have a grudge against our brave waffen SS divisions, for they seemed intent in pointing out that they managed to force back these elite divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/EA3DC565C17942F1BF8AC8EAA34CBD44.jpg[/image]



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 10:35:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

I am closely following this AAR, to see if Fiva and team run into the same problem Tarhunnas did: Huge Armament shortage problem, followed by Wehrmacht collapse.

The stats from the post at the top look ominous; already 400K in the German Manpower pool. Your overall numbers are still OK, but let's see how that looks in July/August.

Fiva, if you haven't already, I would consider disbanding some Arillery and Flak units to conserve armaments. Limit construction of Fortified Zones.

Like Tarhunnas, you played a very good 1942, destroying nearly 200 Rifle Divisions, and piles of other formations. You are about to add more to the bag. Despite this, I predict a similar result:

A grinding early summer, with your Rifle strength dipping below 10,000 squads, followed by collapse in late 1943/early 1944

Hope I'm wrong, though.....


Haven't bothered to disband anything yet except for the RHG HQ. I still get a steady amount of replacement (around 500k) each turn and I managed to grow my armanents pool to 13k. Though with the way the Soviets are pressuring me I'm pretty sure I will have to disband some things soon if I want to at last partly make up for my (tank)losses.

Edit: I was tempted to disband the artillery (Each inf HQ has 3 battallions), for most of the time they don't seem to get committed in defence anyway. In the end I decided against it, purely for historical flavour. I don't know whether there is really a SU commitment bug, but it evens out for me anyway, since it also means I don't get bothered too much by the Soviet defensive artillery when I attack. I will start thinking about disbanding stuff once my armaments hit under the 10k though.



Q-Ball -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 10:44:09 PM)

Looking at the stats, disbanding units to get the MANPOWER in them does you no good. You have plenty of men waiting for guns. Disbanding an HQ unit does nothing.

Disbanding the Artillery/Flak will mean that those units will stop requesting replacements, which will funnel more Armament points to replace lost Rifle and Divisional-level assets. That's the theory anyway.

You have an ARMAMENTS problem, not a Manpower problem



fiva55 -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 10:48:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Looking at the stats, disbanding units to get the MANPOWER in them does you no good. You have plenty of men waiting for guns. Disbanding an HQ unit does nothing.

Disbanding the Artillery/Flak will mean that those units will stop requesting replacements, which will funnel more Armament points to replace lost Rifle and Divisional-level assets. That's the theory anyway.

You have an ARMAMENTS problem, not a Manpower problem


I know, I just automatically disband the RHG HQ in the first turn as a habit. Anyway, has anyone actually confirmed in practice that disbanding arty will raise armanents by a meaningful amount? Theoretically, lowering the TOE should also prevent SU units requesting too much replacements. I can confirm that lowering the TOE will raise your armanents, since I have been doing that once I noticed the drop during the summer of 1942.



Aditia -> RE: Turn 49: Never underestimate the Germans (4/11/2011 11:02:12 PM)

Lowering TOE seems a good way to go about it to me. Even disbanding a lowly arty Bn costs AP right?



Ketza -> RE: Turn 50: Massive tankbattles (4/12/2011 12:01:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: fiva55

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Nice job there! At least 3 tank corps and some guards units. That should sting a bit. 


There were 9 tank corps, most of them guards. Unfortunately, he had several more outside the encirclement.......
------------------------------------------
Trying to relieve their entrapped comrades, the Soviet throw in several more guard tank corps. A massive tank battle ensues. For the first time both side put their newest model tanks to the test. The first few days it seems that the quality of our men and tanks will prevail, but in the end their numbers overwhelm our panzers and we are forced to retreat. Within a week, we manage to cause at least 1300 tank kills, but at the loss of 500 of our own precious panzers.

Situation begin of turn 50
[image]http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/2632/turn50.jpg[/image]


The Soviets, seemingly trying to demoralize our brave soldiers, have dropped pamphlets of the latest battle results over our frontlines. They also seem to have a grudge against our brave waffen SS divisions, for they seemed intent in pointing out that they managed to force back these elite divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/37788/EA3DC565C17942F1BF8AC8EAA34CBD44.jpg[/image]


That sir is depressing. Essentially even odds looking at raw CV.



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