RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (Full Version)

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randallw -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/7/2011 8:16:25 PM)

In my last campaign attempt vs the computer I neglected to evacuate factories ( that's the personal experience I meant ) and dropped to about 190 armament factory points.  On the cusp of the blizzard quite a few of my rifle divisions were not up to strength, with a lot men sitting in the manpower pool with no weapons.  It's possible that losing less than 50% of the armaments factories could be doom.



76mm -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/7/2011 8:17:49 PM)

In my game with Ketza, I also didn't really keep track of industry losses (I'm not a bean counter...), but definitely lost a fair bit, definitely everything in Lgrad and the Stalino trio, but saved the stuff in Kharkov IIRC.

And now I've got thousands of tanks and almost a million armament points in the pool. I'm not really feeling the pain, other than the fact that I have fewer KV-1s than I would have had if I'd saved Lgrad. Finally reached 7 mln men.



randallw -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/7/2011 8:22:27 PM)

Leningrad factories can be a problem; it's packed full of stuff, and if you try to move everything in one turn some stuff gets left, and you have no rail cap left for army units.



neuromancer -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/7/2011 8:46:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza
I have had a few Axis players try to attack in the south without PZ help from AGC and it is indeed easy to make progress very hard for them.


Historical note - It was hard, so that makes sense.



neuromancer -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/7/2011 9:23:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
It's no fun getting your ass kicked in public, and no doubt I am getting smoked. No fun, and games are supposed to be fun, so I am chalking that up to lessons learned and see if I can turn it around.


You've taken a real beating to be sure, and I think you are correct that you made some very key mistakes (historically the Soviets had some very key victories - and the Germans made some key mistakes - that prevented your situation occurring), but you retained a lot of your industry, and a lot of your army is still intact (or was at least...) it could well be interesting to see how '42 plays out.

Besides, there has been a suggestion that territory doesn't matter as much as manpower, so now you get to test that theory.



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/9/2011 7:56:57 PM)

Turn 14

Well, maybe this game will be pointed to as a great comeback. We'll see, or I'll just lose, but we are going to try for Berlin regardless. At any rate, we have evened up the odds, no?

I am going to pretend I inherited this game from my evil twin who hasn't played Soviets before, and give Tarhunnas a good game.

This turn wasn't half-bad, actually, given all the problems I have.

Northern Front:
Not much happening here; I pulled alot of units from the North to help with Moscow, and I don't see any reason why the Germans would advance far. It's just forests they can't get supplies in, and nobody lives up there.

Center:
Below you can see the mess around Moscow. After losing all factories, I pretty much needed to simply survive long enough to withdraw some of the 500,000 troops that were pocketed East of Moscow.

Tarhunnas's thrust to Moscow, by his own admission, was risky. It was well worth it of course, but he knew that the Mobile units there would have a rough couple turns. He was right.

10th Motorized Division surrendered in Moscow, uncorking the bottle and allowing a huge stream of troops to escape. About 10 divisions are likely going to be trapped anyway, but that's alot better than what I was facing.

Otherwise, I attacked and forced back a MOT DIV in the north, cutting-off 3 more mobile units for the 2nd turn in a row. South of Moscow, a Panzer Div plus a Panzer Corps HQ are also cut-off. All of these units shall be freed, but I am hoping to make Tarhunnas focus on RESCUES, rather than ADVANCES. The Panzers north of Moscow might have good supplies, but I know the ones south of town DO NOT, and will spend the turn widening their supply lines.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/728AB5053DF64C708F066CFCAE945BEE.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/9/2011 8:10:50 PM)

SOUTHERN FRONT:

In the SOUTH, Tarhunnas pocketed 5 divisions east of Kharkov, but that is a vast improvement over the entire Southwestern Front, which is what he was in danger of getting.

WIKING division was cut-off in Kharkov for the 2nd turn in a row. Panzers there are low on supplies and Fuel. They will for sure rescue WIKING, and hopefully buy me a little time to set-up defenses to the east.

Around STALINO, a single Panzer Corps is moving toward town, but we registered a sharp rebuke this turn, forcing back a Mot Div, then ROUTING an SS Division in front.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/63A4562B9BBC4B0CB7CF073520F9B908.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/9/2011 9:56:05 PM)

Production Status: T14

I am attaching my Production Screen for posterity, though all numbers figure to go down. I have some industry hopelessly trapped in W Moscow; the rest of Moscow is already destroyed, and not figured here.

The Stalino Area still has a total of 22 Arm and 11 HI; the rest has been moved, including all Vehicles.

I am moving VEHICLES first, followed by ARMAMENTS, then HEAVY INDUSTRY, generally. I lost a bunch of aircraft factories in Moscow, though I did move the T-50 factory (which upgrades to T-70 and Su-76, looking very ahead).

In hindsight, I would have moved 1 Airplane of each in Moscow; the Russians I think can afford to have to re-build a whole factory in almost anything, but you want the chance to re-build. I won't get that for anything in Moscow.

ARMAMENT POOL:

I am in good shape, I think, in Armaments; most Soviet players complain of having too many guys, not enough Armaments. I have been conserving Armaments alot, basically by:

1. Setting all Artillery to TOE 50%, and not building a single Artillery Unit.
2. Setting AT Bdes to 50% TOE (and disbanding a couple when they were very weak)
3. Not building ANY support units, except RR Construction Bdes, and Sapper Regts. That's it!
4. Disbanding all FORTS when even remotely threatened

I am considering disbanding all MOTORCYCLE REGTS; they use 120 Trucks apiece, provide almost no combat value, and I have 30 of them (total: 3500 Trucks!). They are also Armament Hogs, with all those Motorcycle Squads that chew-up points. Would I rather have all those MOT REGTS, or a single Mechanized Corps later on? Methinks the Mech Corps.......

[image]local://upfiles/6931/6286BC225342467683B94C1BB780ADDB.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/9/2011 10:22:04 PM)

My 2 cents:

Disband the AT brigades and motorcycle units. Your divisional (and larger) units use the same stuff, so having it available in the pool means it doesn't have to be built.

Disband some PVO AA battalions. (They have both 37 mm and 85 mm AA guns in them, which are also used by the division ToE's). This will take pressure off your armaments to build guns to fill up your ToEs on infantry units, so you can produce other stuff you need.

I would not go to 50% on your artillery. I would rather have half the artillery at full strength myself.

Pick and choose among your available tubes and build your artillery units accordingly. You will want to probably concentrate on smaller guns because they take fewer armaments to build, but your artillery units are war winners for you imo.

One other thing to consider is something Flav mentioned and that is to go with more of a cav based army. Cav take fewer resources to build, but get about as far during clear weather (and even further in crappy weather) and don't take massive MP's to launch a deliberate attack. They will be as good as any tank corps that come up at least through 1942. If you have tanks in the pool, I would consider making some battalions (will later become regiments) and putting them in the cav corps. I have not had a chance to test any of this out, but it sounds really good in theory. I would still look to build some tank corps as well however. Just not as many as traditional perhaps.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/9/2011 10:37:04 PM)

Yes, the Soviet cavalry is really amazingly useful.

I would also disband the AT brigades. The motorcycle units are less of a slam dunk, they actually make nice attachments for mobile corps down the line. Nevertheless, this is possibly a luxury you cannot afford in your situation.

The only support unit you should ever build in 1941 is the RR brigade, period. (Or the construction battalion in the alternative.) I don't start building combat SUs until the blizzard hits more or less, and then mostly not artillery SUs, but rather sappers and tanks for future corps attachment purposes. First of these going to your brand new cavalry corps.

During the summer and fall of 41 what I do is minimize the amount of artillery SUs attached to armies (2-3 per at most), and then stockpile the rest in STAVKA and try to keep those well away from combat. They tend to die in 1941. Exception: Leningrad, where the extra guns help. But that's moot in this case.






neuromancer -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 12:07:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon
Pick and choose among your available tubes and build your artillery units accordingly. You will want to probably concentrate on smaller guns because they take fewer armaments to build, but your artillery units are war winners for you imo.


Arty makes a big difference, probably something to look at for the long term.

How much artillery is attached directly to HQs, and how much in artillery brigades?


quote:


One other thing to consider is something Flav mentioned and that is to go with more of a cav based army. Cav take fewer resources to build, but get about as far during clear weather (and even further in crappy weather) and don't take massive MP's to launch a deliberate attack.


Historically they used their cav extensively in the winter. I figured a horse could freeze to death in the winter as well as a man, but they used them quite effectively (keep them protected from the wind, well fed, and well covered, they'd probably be okay I guess - should ask a friend who has horses). I don't think I'd go with cav on tanks - at least not in clear weather - but in the winter and in mud they should do quite well. MP wise they seem to attack with a similar cost wise to infantry, but have higher base MPs, which is quite good. IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong) most WW2 cavalry were basically mounted infantry, they would ride their horses to where they need to be, dismount and then fight from foot, so they are likely quite similar to light infantry in combat ability (maybe even a little better as the horse can allow the transport of some heavier firepower that could still be deployed reasonably quickly).



Mynok -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 3:36:25 AM)


It's not cav on tanks but a tank battalion attached to a cav unit to provide extra punch. It works well as I've been on the receiving end of these critters.




Klydon -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 3:48:49 AM)

While it may be tempting to use the cav units as main force units, a far better use of them (at least in my eyes) is as a pursuit and exploitation unit. Nothing like chasing a unit (especially an Axis minor) after it has been initially blown out of its fortifications and the infantry can't reach it anymore. [:D] You can follow up with some cav attacks on it and roll up some cheap victories. In the case of an Axis minor, if it isn't routed after the initial attacks, it will most likely rout after getting bumped by the cav a couple of times.



76mm -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 5:35:49 AM)

I don't get this supposed armaments bottleneck. I have never messed with TOE %, never disbanded any support units, have built a fair number of arty SUs, lost quite a few armament factories, and yet by mid 1942 I have almost a million armament points in my pool...am I supposed to have two million?!



Flaviusx -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 6:29:55 AM)

2 million sounds high. But you are also not under a tremendous amount of offensive pressure, which helps.

Just wait until you get the later rifle corps toe and the arty divisions. Those things chew up a lot of armament points. Still, if the German leaves you alone long enough in 1942, you may build up the kitty to the point where you're never seriously in trouble.




Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 7:52:54 PM)

Turn 15

Thanks for the suggestions on Production! I think I was on the right path, but a few tweaks:

1. I am squirreling some Artillery away for the Winter in STAVKA
2. I disbanded the last 2 AT Bdes
3. I will slowly disband the Mot Regts; I don't like them

I love Cavalry, in fact I have deliberately kept Cavalry toward the 2nd line and somewhat out of harm's way, so that I have alot come Winter. Around Stalino, I have an entire Cavalry Army; they actually are the ones that nailed the SS Division last turn.

Reason for Hope?:

I have already lost Summer of 1941, but I hope I can make a game of it regardless, and provide inspiration for those who might quit. That's my hope, anyway.

I am looking for reasons of optimism. Tarhunnas has had many impressive advances, though I think at a cost: He has really run down his Panzer Formations. More so than usual I think. Aside from 10th Motorized which was destroyed, he is down to 1233 Serviceable German Tanks (out of 1830); those numbers seem VERY low to me. That even includes the 2 full-strength Panzer Divs he just got from Greece (who showed up around Kharkov, BTW)

This turn, he lost 286 Tanks during his phase, and lost another 100 in my attacks. I realize the 1941 German tanks don't figure into 1943 at all, or even 1942 to an extent, but that still has to hurt. I have played Germans enough to know you are begging for ANY tank at some point, even IIcs and 38(t)s.

I've lost the Summer 1941 phase, but I hope to salvage enough from it to make Winter hurt, and 1942 a non-event.

MOSCOW:

Speaking of aggressive.....was this wise of Tarhunnas?

Sacrificing a Motorized Division to take out Moscow....that's well worth it. Sacrificing 2, in order to take out Ivanovo or Vladimir? No way. He must have an HQ Buildup up his sleeve to even attempt this, meethinks.

The units to the South of Moscow, I don't think are in range for HQ buildup, and at any rate are pretty spent (1 HQ and Panzer Division are cut-off for the 3rd turn in a row). So an HQ buildup will probably just rescue those Mot Divs, and maybe threaten Yaroslav, where I was forced to move some industry this turn.

Anyway, bold move, it might work out, in which case I need to re-think how I play Germans



[image]local://upfiles/6931/DAB27251F3EC490C9DFA74541314E5B2.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 7:59:07 PM)

Turn 15: South

Here, Tarhunnas has to be thinking of shortening the line.

I still hold Orel and Kursk, mostly because there is nothing but an infantry screen, and I am making him force me out of there. I don't have a whole lot up there either, but enough to make it slow-going.

He did form a pocket around Kharkov. Has he abandoned the drive on Stalino?

Last turn, I pummelled 2 Panzer Units near Stalino. I have also moved alot of the Industry there, making it a less-attractive target. I have 3-4 rows of forts and lots of units around it, making a quick move on it difficult. For these reasons, I think he is forgetting it.

Instead, he probably will focus on pocketing units, because he is a bit behind in this regard. This will probably include forcing me out of Orel, Belgorod, and Kursk before winter.

Crimea:

This area puzzles me. I have fortified the entrances at the top, even the part near Kerch. Yet, he has made no move whatsoever, leaving a thin screen of Romanians. I am bringing up a couple units and will start pushing on them pretty soon.

Tarhunnas will move some Germans down there, question is will it be Panzers to push me all the way back, or just infantry.

If he doesn't push me back into the Crimea, I am going to reinforce this area, and make it a major push in Winter.


[image]local://upfiles/6931/E43C38E7D7DA4BDEB2A202DE9CC72280.jpg[/image]



Klydon -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 8:03:36 PM)

Could be a case of what the newer patch is doing to the game in terms of tanks knocked out. I think more seem to be biting the dust due to movement than before (or so it seems to me). I have tank issues in my game with Hfarrish as well. It could also be the type of defense employed as well where the Russians have a tendency to give ground to the point that the infantry is not doing as much as normal and the weight of the fight is more on the panzers. In a situation like that, the panzers are going to be worn down some, no question. If nothing else, I figure the panzer force will get some recovery time over the winter.

As far as sacrificing units to wipe out industry, we are sort of starting to see more of this recently. Certainly trading a motorized division for wiping out the Moscow industry is a no brainer. Trading a motorized division for 3 HI/3 Armaments is another issue. One thing about that location is there will be a population hit and also a rail cap hit (if the city has any rail there). Still not worth a division IMO.

Tarhunnas is going to have to be really careful on his turn considering mud is after that. He could wind up sacrificing more units trying to rescue the two that are well behind the Russian lines.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 8:06:13 PM)

That thrust NE of Moscow looks like victory disease to me. Do what you can to prevent their relief. A dead panzer corps is not an even exchange for losing all the Moscow factories, but it hurts.




Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/10/2011 8:29:23 PM)

I think the new rules is part of it, part of it is maybe defense. I know that German Infantry has a "range" of about 3-4 hexes before they don't have the MPs to effectively attack anymore. I have arranged my defense accordingly, knowing Infantry will blow-up the closest units (which are usually my weakest), and that Panzers have to deal with anything 3 or more rows back (which are usually my strongest units).

In this case, he CAN free those 2 divisions, but he CANNOT without alot of Hasty Attacks by Panzer Units. He has been doing ALOT of hasty attacks with Panzer units. While that is good for aggressive movement, not so much for long-term health.

I haven't counted, but it just seems like Tarhunnas has done LOTS of Hasty Attacks with his Mobile units. They are all pretty worn down.

EDIT: I looked it up, this was very interesting.....Losses last turn weren't due to movement, it was due to blasting my guys:

[image]local://upfiles/6931/B67F55E7F4414DDEB7CE4911115CDF0C.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 12:26:31 PM)

Turn 16

Flavius, Tarhunnas admitted in an e-mail that the Motorized expedition to the heart of Russia was an overreach.

In the CENTER, Tarhunnas did the smart thing and instead of using Panzers to smash East and rescue his guys, he used them to smash my retreating columns and cut-off 20 divisions.

Getting 20 Divisions pocketed is not good, though after that disastrous 60-whatever division pocket that was originally around Moscow, I will take it. I clearly LOST the battle of Moscow, but at least it wasn't free for the Germans; I have to think 3 Motorized Divisions up in smoke hurts. All 3 were 90-Morale units; even when they come back, they won't be the same again.

SOUTH of Moscow, Tarhunnas is really thinning out his line to put infantry in front of Moscow, and I took advantage of it. I wonder if I pulled the trigger too early, but I wanted to take pressure off the Moscow front. With T-17 next, he will probably have to quickly send troops down there to restore the situation.

That sector will be a focus of mine over the winter......

Note on Lines: I haven't posted the entire front line, but my strategy the last few turns is to basically make it as long as possible. While painful in the short-run, I know a long line is REALLY painful for the Germans in winter. Tarhunnas's snow offensives, I think, will probably focus mostly on killing a few units and straightening the line.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/01DB9B6BFEE64A3FBCEA535B06510119.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 12:30:43 PM)

Turn 16, SOUTH:

DONBAS: T is making a last-push on the Donbas cities. I don't think he'll make it, it's the most fortified region in Russia at the moment, and my units there are pretty rested.

I managed to attack and push back 3 Panzer units. I hope he looks at that and thinks "I probably don't want to push it". He probably shouldn't as his TANK strength is really critical!


CRIMEA:
I had mentioned before the Crimea bridgehead; Tarhunnas is probably thinking now of getting rid of it, because NOW it's become a nuisance.

Putting a "line" of Romanian Cavalry to "Defend" something is asking for trouble, so we served some up. Infantry easily wasted 2 Romanian Cav Bdes and an Infantry Division. Another Division looks pretty hopelessly cut-off, a long way from rescue. Good thing about killing Romanian units is that they don't grow back.

If I were Tarhunnas, I would be forgetting Stalino and wiping out this bridgehead, because he cannot have me hanging around the Dnepr come Winter.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/62910ED799D4491CA915C16CFCC63819.jpg[/image]



Arstavidios -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 2:05:40 PM)

I think you're in good shape overall.
you're on strong lines and your industry is fine.
i can't really say the same in my game against Pelton :)



gids -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 4:07:44 PM)

keep it up :) im playing tarhunnas aswell and he really loves to make toast of his panzers atm he lost lik 600 tanks in 1 turn in 1942 against me



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 4:59:29 PM)

Turn 17: Last call for Summer!

The Summer Offensive is over, and I will say Tarhunnas won that phase.

BAD NEWS:
In terms of INDUSTRY, I lost alot. Here is the damage so far:

51 Armaments
29 Heavy Industry
20 Vehicles

This does not include the 7 Armaments and 5 Heavy Industry still in Stalino, where I can't move it unless I move his Panzers out of there (See below). If I don't move those, you can add that to the total.

So, pretty serious; not sure if I can come back from that, but I will try.

MANPOWER also figures to be a problem. I hold Kursk and Begorod, for now, but alot of Manpower is trashed, including basically everything up north. This is another very serious problem, I already see recruitment dropping to 115,000 per turn.

So, Tarhunnas's objective was to impact the Red Army's long-term ability to fight. That mission was more or less accomplished. This is why he won the summer.

Good News:

Now, for the good news, and there is some.

Tarhunnas consistently went deep, in lieu of pocketing troops. As a result, my losses were OK; 3 mil so far. Not great, but OK. I only lost 10 Cavalry Divisions, as I made a concerted effort to protect and conserve these babies. Going forward, I will have to rely heavily on CAV if I have a chance.

Tarhunnas's Panzers are VERY cooked. I have been pushing them around lately, and that does not bode well for him. He dropped below 1,000 Ready German AFVs on the TOE list (!) this turn. He has a rescue operation to launch next turn in the MUD, so he doesn't get a break yet.

Hopefully, I can punish him this winter. He really needs to rest his mobile forces, but as they re-gain strength, they will hog valuable armament points, making it tougher for the Wehrmacht to recover. If I can add the 3 units below to the bag, I will feel much better.

North/Center:

Not a ton up here, as Tarhunnas made 3 pockets of 2 units each; one of which I broke, the other two I couldn't. The one I broke was by pushing a Mot Div. Another, I attacked 7th Panzer, which is down to a CV of 4, and 30 tanks. You could say it's a GHOST of it's former self!

Around OREL, I had to give up Orel finally, which sucks; can't afford to lose Manpower, but as a consolation prize, I did manage to surround a single Infantry Regiment. He'll have to break through in the Mud, or those guys will be POWs. Every bit helps.

South:

Here is the real action. The Screenshot says it all!

Tarhunnas doesn't want to give his guys a break; they did make it to Stalino, to my surprise. Ouch! I have consistently underestimated the ability of Panzers to be mobile and smash through things, to my disappointment.

We were able to salvage a bit, though. I was able to move all the industry in the other cities there, leaving only some remnants in Stalino. Even better, I have 3 Panzer Divisions on the ropes!

Attacking in MUD with tired Panzers is no fun. I predict he will break through, but I am at least making him work for it. If he doesn't break through, this will be a GREAT pocket!

PS: I did force that Romanian Infantry Division isolated last turn to SURRENDER; like I said, every bit helps!


[image]local://upfiles/6931/FCA71685E856463CBF865962DB063CFC.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 5:07:27 PM)

That business in the Crimea could really turn ugly for him. Very surprised he didn't try to at least shove you back acorss the bottlenecks and fortify.

Even though his tank losses have been heavy, these are mostly an illusion. It's all trash tanks, obsolete crap. The German can afford to throw the lot away, pull the divisions back during the winter for refitting, and get them back in play next summer.

Now what is more serious is losing 3 motorized divisions entirely. All that high morale/experience...gone.

You are not including all the factories you lost, btw. There's a ton of aircraft industry in Moscow that went bye bye. I'm guessing he also smoked the tank factory in Kharkov, which is very bad.



Flaviusx -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 5:09:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arstavidios

I think you're in good shape overall.
you're on strong lines and your industry is fine.
i can't really say the same in my game against Pelton :)



His industry is not fine.



Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 5:13:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

That business in the Crimea could really turn ugly for him. Very surprised he didn't try to at least shove you back acorss the bottlenecks and fortify.

Even though his tank losses have been heavy, these are mostly an illusion. It's all trash tanks, obsolete crap. The German can afford to throw the lot away, pull the divisions back during the winter for refitting, and get them back in play next summer.

Now what is more serious is losing 3 motorized divisions entirely. All that high morale/experience...gone.

You are not including all the factories you lost, btw. There's a ton of aircraft industry in Moscow that went bye bye. I'm guessing he also smoked the tank factory in Kharkov, which is very bad.


He DID get all the Aircraft in Moscow. I don't know how bad that is, how much of that I can live with.

I moved the T-34s in Kharkov though before he got there



Flaviusx -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 5:18:10 PM)

Ok, at least you got the Kharkov plant out. That's huge. That's like a third of your t-34 production right there.





Q-Ball -> RE: Defender of the Revolution: Q-Ball v Tarhunnas (6/11/2011 5:22:48 PM)

Quick: How do you do a para drop? What keys to press, and how? The manual seems to be silent on this.

need to know Asap



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