RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (Full Version)

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bk19@mweb.co.za -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/11/2012 5:29:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Checking with the editor, it is a blank device in the scenario. Nothing to do with code.

Suggest adding it to the Land OOB forum.


quote:

ORIGINAL: btbw

http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7379/screenshot221a.jpg
Scenario 6
[sm=fighting0045.gif]

http://www.mediafire.com/?krwc1dbaqyyl62x






oops.... maybe I should have read everything first before I commented.....



koniu -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/11/2012 7:37:59 PM)

My windows installation is so old that when i am try to launch latest r9 official patch, installer crashes and windows stop responding.

I know i need to reinstall windows but for next days i will have no time to do that.
I have already r9 beta installed.

I have question.

Do r9 beta=r9 official, and if yes, can i use it in PBEM if my opponent will have official patch or we both need stay with beta until i fix my system?




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/11/2012 10:30:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: inqistor

I vaguely recall some similar issue being reported earlier, but can not find it. Latest beta.


Sorting Ground Reinforcements by arrival date, when restriction level is applied shows realy strange results.
But when no filter is applied it works as it should.

It behaves the same for both sides.

[image]local://upfiles/35065/CC1B3FACE20F477CA28C966B14328C58.jpg[/image]

The filter is only acting as a filter for what is being shown from the full list. Whereas the date sort is actually sorting the full list.

The filter needs to be moved so that it filters the full list (that is the 'full' list is only the LCUs that satisfy the filter). Then the sort will work properly.

This also applies to the Ground Withdraw list sorted by date, but so much as most units are already on the map.



littleike -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/11/2012 10:55:18 PM)

Last official patch.

As soon as i start scenario 9 the program create in the save directory an update report with many rows like this:

TOE difference in unit 5th Ind.(3068)
--> slot 4 has (0), to become Type 1 Halftack(788)
TOE difference in unit 40th(3271)
--> slot 3 has 37mm Type 94 AT Gun(734), to become 37mm Type 01 AT Gun(735)
TOE difference in unit 20th(3326)
--> slot 0 has IJA Engineer Squad(711), to become IJA Engineer Squad(267)

...........and so on.


What does it mean? Are they errors?

Many thanks



michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/12/2012 12:02:28 AM)

There are possible data issues with the scenario. They might not be errors, but things that could be wrong.
From a player perspective, I don't think you need to worry. The scenario dev would have sorted out any real errors.

The update file is of more use when you do an in-game update of the scenario data in case it has been changed.



koniu -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/13/2012 9:40:30 PM)

Do message about Burma road status in Rangoon city window is removed?
I just upgraded to r9 and massage disrepair.
I playing as japan and in last turn road was open and now there is no message.




BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 2:04:09 AM)

Not sure what this is but I looked into the "aoperationsreport_420214.txt" and found this:
***
Previous report of sinking of CL Kiso incorrect. Ship sighted and engaged at 106, 63
***
In-game that ship is now(turn 74/18th February) listed as sunk on 14th February but the tracker lists it as been sunk on 31st January.
Digging into the Combat report I found that it was bombed on 29th January at 155,94 taking 1 bomb hit and being on fire.
I loaded the autosave from 13th February and there the game also list it as being sunk on 31st January with the exact same data as what the tracker lists.

So the message in the OpsReport just changed the date(from 31st January to 14th February) and the location(from 147, 100 near Wake Island to 105,60 near Kochi) but that the sinking was wrongly reported seems to be ignored also the device(1000lb GP Bomb) is still the same.

Only explanation to me is that the SS Trout sighted the CL Kiso on 14th February:
***
Submarine attack near Kochi at 106,63

Japanese Ships
CL Kiso

Allied Ships
SS Trout



CL Kiso is sighted by SS Trout
SS Trout launches 4 torpedoes at CL Kiso
***
So what happened, did the Captain of the Trout reported the CL Kiso as sunk(again)?



Don Bowen -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 3:31:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
Previous report of sinking of CL Kiso incorrect.


Yup. One of your subordinates fed you an incorrect action report. Such reports do happen. In time they are corrected, one method or another.



BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 6:12:56 AM)

Sure and that's OK but what I don't get is why it's still being listed as sunk.
Does the paperwork take so long or is something "jammed"?



michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 9:26:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Do message about Burma road status in Rangoon city window is removed?
I just upgraded to r9 and massage disrepair.
I playing as japan and in last turn road was open and now there is no message.




The road being open would only apply to the Allied player. And no it hasn't been removed in r9.


[image]local://upfiles/3086/EE2822DD0AEE4FCAB83BB16CCE112D39.jpg[/image]



koniu -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 9:39:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu

Do message about Burma road status in Rangoon city window is removed?
I just upgraded to r9 and massage disrepair.
I playing as japan and in last turn road was open and now there is no message.




The road being open would only apply to the Allied player. And no it hasn't been removed in r9.


So why i saw that massage at lest for 3 turns in Rangoon if i am Japanese player.
And if massage is gone is that mean that road is closed?

Also if i load new game as allies there is no massage about road. But i only check it on turn "0" so probably i will see it in next turn?



michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 10:13:36 AM)

I mean that the impact of the 'road' is only for the Allied player.

Looking at the code:
If the end of the 'road' (Yunan) is occupied by Japanese, then the road is closed and not reported.
Otherwise it is only reported if it can trace a supply route to the 'end of the road'. And supply can be delivered to the base.

On turn 0, no supply has been delivered so the 'road' isn't open.



Don Bowen -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 2:58:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Sure and that's OK but what I don't get is why it's still being listed as sunk.
Does the paperwork take so long or is something "jammed"?


There is a random time delay before correction (unless the ship is sighted first). If you don't like this, turn off fog of war.



BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 4:54:23 PM)

But the ship was sighted that's the point.
Listed first as sunk on 31st January, then it was sighted again on 14th February in a sub attack but without taking any hits, now its still listed as sunk but dated on 14th February and location changed to a point close to the sub attack.



Don Bowen -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 6:55:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

But the ship was sighted that's the point.
Listed first as sunk on 31st January, then it was sighted again on 14th February in a sub attack but without taking any hits, now its still listed as sunk but dated on 14th February and location changed to a point close to the sub attack.




I really do not understand the confusion.

You received an incorrect sinking report (fog of war).
You later enaged the ship reported as sunk so you know the report was false.
When engaged it was again reported as sunk (may fog of war, maybe not).



m10bob -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 7:03:06 PM)

How many times was Enterprise reported sunk?



BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 7:38:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

But the ship was sighted that's the point.
Listed first as sunk on 31st January, then it was sighted again on 14th February in a sub attack but without taking any hits, now its still listed as sunk but dated on 14th February and location changed to a point close to the sub attack.




I really do not understand the confusion.

You received an incorrect sinking report (fog of war).
You later enaged the ship reported as sunk so you know the report was false.
When engaged it was again reported as sunk (may fog of war, maybe not).


Confusing is whether he really reported the ship as sunk or if the sunk ship list didn't update the info correctly, I mean in the combat report he didn't even score a hit on it and it wasn't listed as sunk either in that report so how can he report it as sunk?
If only he scored at least one hit it would be understandable but the way it is now seems strange.

Simple calculation:
Reported sunk + sighted later + attacked without scoring a hit = SHIP NOT SUNK
That's what I can get out of the reports I got and I don't get how the game can pull something different out of them without giving the player a clue where that info comes from.
Any even the silliest explanation in that combat report would have solved why the ship is still listed as sunk, simply because it was reported as sunk or at least as hit.
If I get one report of a pilot telling me he hit the CL with his 1000lb bomb and is sure it sank later = Ship sunk
If I get one report of a captain telling me he attacked that ship but without hitting it = Ship not sunk
I can either believe the pilot or the captain but can't "merge" the two reports to make something out of it that doesn't make any sense like it's now with changing date & location but not the sunk by reason or that it's sunk at all.



Don Bowen -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 8:12:56 PM)


It's just getting too complicated. It's bloody Fog of War, it's supposed to be wrong sometimes.



denisonh -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/14/2012 8:53:36 PM)

It is an abstraction of what happened in RL.

In the pre information age, stubby pencil, world where hundreds of operational reports are transmitted through multiple HQs across the Pacific then are sorted through and analyzed by hand, the chances of getting accurate and timely information is not as good as you think.

As a guy who had to pour through literally millions (yes, millions) of operational reports while doing analysis of operations in Iraq, it was not always easy determining what actually happened in engagements at HQ level. Operational reports varied, with some being incomplete, some describing the same event in a different way (conflicting at times), some with the data being incorrect (remember geocoding one engagement based on the coordinates and it was in Iran), and a whole host of blanks/incompletes in the reports. Even today it isn't easy.


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

But the ship was sighted that's the point.
Listed first as sunk on 31st January, then it was sighted again on 14th February in a sub attack but without taking any hits, now its still listed as sunk but dated on 14th February and location changed to a point close to the sub attack.




I really do not understand the confusion.

You received an incorrect sinking report (fog of war).
You later enaged the ship reported as sunk so you know the report was false.
When engaged it was again reported as sunk (may fog of war, maybe not).


Confusing is whether he really reported the ship as sunk or if the sunk ship list didn't update the info correctly, I mean in the combat report he didn't even score a hit on it and it wasn't listed as sunk either in that report so how can he report it as sunk?
If only he scored at least one hit it would be understandable but the way it is now seems strange.

Simple calculation:
Reported sunk + sighted later + attacked without scoring a hit = SHIP NOT SUNK
That's what I can get out of the reports I got and I don't get how the game can pull something different out of them without giving the player a clue where that info comes from.
Any even the silliest explanation in that combat report would have solved why the ship is still listed as sunk, simply because it was reported as sunk or at least as hit.
If I get one report of a pilot telling me he hit the CL with his 1000lb bomb and is sure it sank later = Ship sunk
If I get one report of a captain telling me he attacked that ship but without hitting it = Ship not sunk
I can either believe the pilot or the captain but can't "merge" the two reports to make something out of it that doesn't make any sense like it's now with changing date & location but not the sunk by reason or that it's sunk at all.




Chris21wen -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/15/2012 11:37:22 AM)

On the TF creation screen there is a button that says 'Surpress ships not due upgradel'. This filter does not seem to do anything usefull? And yes I do have ships both due and set for upgrade but clicking the button removes all ships in port.

To my mind this filter is wrong anyway you should be surpressing ships due an upgrade thus hiding them from selection.

Right clicking on a ship during the select is no use either as this info does not appear on the ship data.



PaxMondo -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/15/2012 1:05:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
... It's bloody Fog of War, it's supposed to be wrong sometimes.


quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh
It is an abstraction of what happened in RL.

In the pre information age, stubby pencil, world where hundreds of operational reports are transmitted through multiple HQs across the Pacific then are sorted through and analyzed by hand, the chances of getting accurate and timely information is not as good as you think. ...


+1

In this era, particularly if a battle went poorly, it could take weeks (as in when the ships got back to port .. literally) before quasi accurate information was available to upper command levels and even then it was less than complete. Wounded ships in sub infested waters tend to observe rather strict radio procedures.

People now are far too used to getting their info via CNN within seconds of the occurence. You need to dial back your expectations quite a bit.



Empire101 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/16/2012 8:32:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
... It's bloody Fog of War, it's supposed to be wrong sometimes.


quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh
It is an abstraction of what happened in RL.

In the pre information age, stubby pencil, world where hundreds of operational reports are transmitted through multiple HQs across the Pacific then are sorted through and analyzed by hand, the chances of getting accurate and timely information is not as good as you think. ...


+1

In this era, particularly if a battle went poorly, it could take weeks (as in when the ships got back to port .. literally) before quasi accurate information was available to upper command levels and even then it was less than complete. Wounded ships in sub infested waters tend to observe rather strict radio procedures.

People now are far too used to getting their info via CNN within seconds of the occurence. You need to dial back your expectations quite a bit.


++1 Reality check[:)]



wdolson -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/16/2012 8:57:48 AM)

The USN has published the biweekly squadron location and strength reports to the web. If you look through the reports for the carrier squadrons in 1942, you'll find things like air group 2 still aboard the Lexington in the first week of June 1942 and the Lexington. The information compiled during the war is usually very inaccurate compared to what was compiled via careful study years after the fact.

Bill



witpqs -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/16/2012 2:03:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Empire101

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
... It's bloody Fog of War, it's supposed to be wrong sometimes.


quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh
It is an abstraction of what happened in RL.

In the pre information age, stubby pencil, world where hundreds of operational reports are transmitted through multiple HQs across the Pacific then are sorted through and analyzed by hand, the chances of getting accurate and timely information is not as good as you think. ...


+1

In this era, particularly if a battle went poorly, it could take weeks (as in when the ships got back to port .. literally) before quasi accurate information was available to upper command levels and even then it was less than complete. Wounded ships in sub infested waters tend to observe rather strict radio procedures.

People now are far too used to getting their info via CNN within seconds of the occurence. You need to dial back your expectations quite a bit.


++1 Reality check[:)]



Quite so! Now people get the wrong information faster and believe they are 'informed'.



PaxMondo -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/16/2012 7:48:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Quite so! Now people get the wrong information faster and believe they are 'informed'.

Touche!



pompack -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/16/2012 8:33:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

On the TF creation screen there is a button that says 'Surpress ships not due upgradel'. This filter does not seem to do anything usefull? And yes I do have ships both due and set for upgrade but clicking the button removes all ships in port.

To my mind this filter is wrong anyway you should be surpressing ships due an upgrade thus hiding them from selection.

Right clicking on a ship during the select is no use either as this info does not appear on the ship data.




Actually I just used it and it was incredibly helpful!

I had a number of TFs sitting at a major port between operations but a few ships spread across over ten TFs were overdue for upgrade. So I created a TF, selected "suppress ships not due uprade", selected everyone of the ones still displayed, disbanded the TF and the next turn all the overdue ships went into upgrade.



jcjordan -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/17/2012 1:29:00 AM)

Not sure if it's been asked before or not but if it only takes a few weeks for a land unit to be bought out of the destroyed units shouldn't an air unit take the same or less? IIRC it takes months or a year for an airunit to come back in right now & it seems much easier to build an air unit than a land unit as far as personnel & TOE stuff.



Dan Nichols -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/17/2012 1:35:21 AM)

But it takes a very long time for LCUs to obtain all of their devices.



wdolson -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/17/2012 1:43:10 AM)

Yes, once an air unit returns, it takes only a short time to bring it up to full strength and it can be filled out with pilots from the reserve pool who are trained. Unless the LCU is very small, it will probably take months to rebuild on map, if not longer if there is a shortage of something the unit needs.

Bill



JeffroK -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108r9 updated 21 January 2012 (2nd part) (2/17/2012 2:25:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66
Previous report of sinking of CL Kiso incorrect.


Yup. One of your subordinates fed you an incorrect action report. Such reports do happen. In time they are corrected, one method or another.



Just like the numerous claims that the Ark Royal had been sunk.



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