RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (Full Version)

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Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 12:39:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

My opportunity to take Petrograd ended in failure. Ouch!

[image]local://upfiles/5859/0767945D4B214A1DA4BE795539A5AF7D.jpg[/image]


and it's early October 19 [:D].

Next version should be uploaded tonight or tomorrow.



Nikel -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 12:42:25 PM)

OK.

But do you want to add Kelchevsky? I can create the portrait, but he is not in the game right now, you should add him, as a staffer for example with Sidorin [:)]




Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 12:52:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

OK.

But do you want to add Kelchevsky? I can create the portrait, but he is not in the game right now, you should add him, as a staffer for example with Sidorin [:)]





Yes, I will [:)] So original whiskers deserve him to get a role in FY [:D]



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 1:31:53 PM)

I end today's session with a capture of one of my target cities. Yay!

[image]local://upfiles/5859/A19F62FB6ECA483496869E5D0452BF51.jpg[/image]



Nikel -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 3:19:34 PM)

Here he is. Hope you like it :)

He looks like a member of the prussian aristocracy

Article in the russian wikipedia

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кельчевский,_Анатолий_Киприанович



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 5:25:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

Here he is. Hope you like it :)

He looks like a member of the prussian aristocracy

Article in the russian wikipedia

http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Кельчевский,_Анатолий_Киприанович



I will integrate him, but not in the next version, as any changes in the unit and model database could force to start a new game. I'm waiting a few more days, if some new leader ideas are coming...[:)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 5:28:03 PM)

BTW, currently reading:

Jonathan D.SMELE, Civil War in Siberia( 747 pages)
Geoge STEWART, The White Armies of Russia (430 pages)
Ilya SOMIN, Stillborn Crusade (220 pages).



Nikel -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 5:43:30 PM)

If you want some new portraits just tell me, it depends on the availability of a decent source portrait [:)]

Are you reading 3 books at the same time?! I hope that at different times along the day [:'(]


Kenez 2 books on South Russia in the Civil War are fully visible in google books

http://books.google.com/books?id=eEtx7cPnIGwC&dq=inauthor:kenez&hl=es&source=gbs_navlinks_s

http://books.google.com/books?id=vREGB60UPWMC&hl=es&source=gbs_navlinks_s



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 7:43:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

If you want some new portraits just tell me, it depends on the availability of a decent source portrait [:)]

Are you reading 3 books at the same time?! I hope that at different times along the day [:'(]


Kenez 2 books on South Russia in the Civil War are fully visible in google books

http://books.google.com/books?id=eEtx7cPnIGwC&dq=inauthor:kenez&hl=es&source=gbs_navlinks_s

http://books.google.com/books?id=vREGB60UPWMC&hl=es&source=gbs_navlinks_s



I read always first introduction, conclusion and a few random pages. This test is generally sufficient to discover the real value of a book.

Not one of the is utterly crap. The Stewart seems very good, even if the anti-bolshevik tone is sometimes blurring the information value.

Smele's book appears to be very detailed, to the risk to lose the overall appraisal of the situation. It is certainly better at studying the economics and political aspects of the Siberian faction than for military.

The last one is certainly like any pamphlet: exxagerated but throwing some new ideas in the field, which is always good.

Thanks [:)]



Nikel -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 8:15:53 PM)

Smele is also the author of an annotated bibliography of the RCW

http://books.google.es/books?id=XN1k1M2I060C&printsec=frontcover&hl=en&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0

Considers Kenez books as the definitive history of anti-Bolshevik on South Russia. I you are interested in them, tell me [;)]f

Stewart as dated (published in 1933) but still one of the best accounts of the civil war

Somin not listed



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 9:45:29 PM)

Patch1 released on my blog ( see my sig).

This patch just fixes some bugs and may be applied to ongoing games.

The install process is the same than for Fatal Years version.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/3/2011 11:36:24 PM)

Next turn of my current test game: late October 18

I let a small covering force at Tikhorest, mainly a brigade, the remnants of Mamontov's division and 4 armored trains, to cover the railroad to Ekaterinodar. Denikin and Krasnov are engaged in a pincer opeartion aginst Red concentration. Failure as the enemy retreats before the battle.

Stalin is yet here, as my cavalry recon force reveals. His immobility is maybe caused by an unactivated status as Stalin rating is average.

The Red garrison in Novosomething ;-) is escaping toward Red supply sources, menacing on the way Stavropol, lighty defended and source of one my 3 ongoing regional policies...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHCR64FbrZ4



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 8:03:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

Smele is also the author of an annotated bibliography of the RCW

http://books.google.es/books?id=XN1k1M2I060C&printsec=frontcover&hl=en&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0

Considers Kenez books as the definitive history of anti-Bolshevik on South Russia. I you are interested in them, tell me [;)]f

Stewart as dated (published in 1933) but still one of the best accounts of the civil war

Somin not listed



Thanks. I will look on KENEZ books ASAP. [:)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 8:05:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

I end today's session with a capture of one of my target cities. Yay!

[image]local://upfiles/5859/A19F62FB6ECA483496869E5D0452BF51.jpg[/image]



Eh, Reds can't be strong everywhere. Good luck for the next months. [8D]



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 11:00:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic
Eh, Reds can't be strong everywhere. Good luck for the next months. [8D]


Reds not being strong everywhere is my only hope! Siberians are not helping with NM under 80...



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 1:20:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic
Eh, Reds can't be strong everywhere. Good luck for the next months. [8D]


Reds not being strong everywhere is my only hope! Siberians are not helping with NM under 80...



The more time, the stronger Reds become. Contrary to the official game, RED AI is building units and Generals ( as I've done the AI of the official version, I know exactly what its weaknesses are). And the FY AIs are rather smart in offensive operations.

On the contrary, Siberian army is very brittle and the challenge is to master this fragility in order to sustain the offensive.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 2:10:24 PM)

It seems I have no time to play today, but I checked and the Siberian NM is actually 68! [sm=00000116.gif]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 3:01:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

It seems I have no time to play today, but I checked and the Siberian NM is actually 68! [sm=00000116.gif]


When you have time, send me the save file. Such a situation isn't in itself a bug( after all in late 19 it's about the historical level [:D]) but I prefer to check why it isn't a bug manifesting itself under the appearence of normality [:)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 9:16:42 PM)

Some explanations about the existence of an option for Southern Whites and Siberian Whites to provoke Finnish intervention for a limited time in 1919 without recognizing independance for allother minorities:

For several months Mannerheim permitted Iudenich to direct theNorth-Western Army's affairs fromHelsingfors.Iudenich's own North-Western Army was quite small — it numbered less than
15,000 men even at the zenith of its fortunes — but with guaranteed Estonian andFinnish assistance he could certainly have captured Petrograd, with all the economic, strategic and psychological perquisites this would have secured for die White movement as a whole. Kolchak was well aware of this, and, in a personal letter to
Mannerheim of June 23rd 1919, he literally begged the Finnish leader to `adopt decisive measures for the liberation of the northern capital of Russia'. At the time, however, Mannerheim for one was certain that his
army would fight for the Russian Whites. He replied to Kolchak on July 10th, saying that although the recently established Finnish Diet was somewhat hesitant, the Army would certainly follow him in an attack on the Russian Bolsheviks However, Mannerheim continued, neither the Finnish government nor army would be willing to bear die financial and human costs of an advance on Bolshevik Petrograd `unless we receive a guarantee that the
New Russia for which we are fightirig agrees to certain conditions, The admiral' s prime objection to the prospective Iudenich—Mannerheim agreement was that it entailed the 'unconditional recognition of Finnish independence'. He steadfastly refused to consider such recognition of the Helsingfors régime, even though, as Sazonov pointed out, Finnish independence was already an accomplished fact, it had been recognized by die Allies, it was not necessarily a threat to Russian security and anyway, by virtue of her geographical position, tiny Finland would always have to be dependent upon a regenerated Russia. Kolchak would not yield on this point even when informed that, irrespective of any other concessions or guarantees, Finland would not move against Petrograd unless she was recognized by the Whites and that this had to be the bottom line of any agreement.

By the autumn of 1919, however, Kolchak's hostile attitude was but one of several factors undermining White Russian—Finnish relations. During the summer Mannerheim' s regency had been superseded by a republic and a less interventionist Diet had begun to append to the price of Finnish action against the Bolsheviks the condition that the Allies fond all military operations.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 10:07:00 PM)

November 18:

Crucial turn.As always.

First because WW1 ends and Germany begins his withdrawal from Uraine and Balt areas.

Then winter has come and heavy snow is everywhere.

It's time to talk a bit about my reinforcemnts.

Main source of materials and conscripts in FY are of course requisitions and conscriptions regional policies like in the official game. Howewer, there are several major differences/

First, in the official game, you may use these policies only in areas whose loyalty is at least 51% in your favor. Yes You may only take cattle by force in regions where peasants are loyal to you. It siffices they are disloyal to hinder pillage, forced labour or enrollment., certainly an effect of the Geneva convention.

But in the officila game, you don't have to worry about possible discontment among your loyal peasants after being robbed by your forces. You may send officials promising Reform ( the third policy available) and their loyalty will rise again, just in time to apply a new requisition, then a new reform action. Peasants are so dumb. Except when they are siding with the enemy, because you can't use requisitions or conscriptions. You must first do land reforms before the loyalty be sufficiently to get men and supplies.

Of course, you have understood the Official game bears no common ground with history. RCW was a savage conflict all factions sustained by living from the land, in harsh manner, against an hostile peasantry prone to revolt ( Greens). Whites were never fully able to promise a Land reform and Reds adopted the cruel and inefficent War Communism policy, switching to NEP after the end of the RCW.

Howewer, there's more. The official system is just boring for gameplay. Requisition, conscription, reform, Requisition, conscription, reform, rinse , repeat. The whole procesus is a no brainer, offering no real choice.

FY system is trying to introduce both more historical flavours and strategic choices....



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 10:43:56 PM)

So how Regional Policies are handled in FY?

1) First Requisitions and conscriptions are eligible in any area where your Military Control is at least 51%. Military Control isn't loyalty, as you will have 100% military control in a conquered region occupied by your units even if loyalty is 1%. So you may apply thses policies in regions you have conquered the turn after your victory, as it was the case in RCW. Of course, doing so will lower loyalty, your and for the other factions. Some could consider this "gamey" as if your loyalty is 1%, it seems you have all reasons to pressure peasants in regions with high lyalty for your enemies.

In reality, this feature is both historical and not so gamey. Historical because peasants didn't waited liberators to come back. They revolted independantly and sometimes continued their revolts even after region was captured back, because they despised both sides, Reds or Whites, in their eyes equally alien and dangerous.

Then, by acting so you're taking the risk to create a Green revolt in your rear,cutting your supply lines. Green revolts are a new opponent you will have to deal with with your limited means. Creating a new enemy isn't exactly a gamey tactics even if indeed Greens will be at war with your opponents too. And once the Green loyalty is higher than 40, the risk of revolts in the area will remain...

2) Reforms aren't granted at start. The 3 main factions, Whites and Reds, must play an option to get the possibility to play some Reform policies.Doing so will lower the number of requisitions and xconscriptions available.

Here the choice: either follow the historical path by pressuring peasants without limits, or choose alternate and more balanced politics by undertaking a land reform to accomodate peasantry. The first path will create huge Green revolt risk, the latter will deprive you of a part of your rerssources, as both land reform and extorsion are uncompatible.

Without entering details, the system being rather intricated, the longer you will wait for enforcing reform option, the higher it will cost. This feature simulates first the msitruting of peasants before your new policy as you have followed the opposed one for a long time; then it addresses a possible gamey tactics: pressure in 1918 and 1919, convert to reform in 1920...If you're taking the reform path soon, you 're taking the risk of losing the necessary ressources in 1920. But at this time, you will maybe have a secured rear with high loyalty in the population, a longer Allied Intervention, some spontaneous enrollments. Who knows? :-)

Last conscription will cost not only loyalty but 1 NM. So you can't temporize in FY: your conscription capacity is tied with your NM, ie your victories. The ore you win , the more you may recruit...And vice versa...




JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 11:08:55 PM)

Just came back. I remember reading from Mannerheim's memoirs that he didn't appreciate Judenits' (Finnish spelling) personality - not energetic enough. It may have been some sort of an afterthought - after WWII Mannerheim was pretty careful in writing about that period of Russo-Finnish relationships...



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 11:13:19 PM)

And here are the files for Clovis to check.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 11:19:15 PM)

From my game in November 18:

[image]http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7862/financialaspects.jpg[/image]

I'm using Regional policies in my 3 eligible areas. Southern Whites need to expand to get more ressources.

I'm using Conscriptions and requisitions a lot, with all factions. If you don't choose reforms, you may believe you could win by a more balanced approach restraining your use of these policies. IMHO, it's a bad decision. The more Whites are waiting to build sufficient forces, the more Reds become stronger, and they will have much more men and ressources than you, as Reds control the Russian heartland , the richest part. The more Reds are waiting, the more they are taking the risk to be confronted to stronger Whites and Poland, the larger of the minors with a powerful army. You may choose to be nice by enforcing reforms. If not, be evil. Middle politics aren't relevant in FY ( and in the real RCW BTW).



As a side note on a whole different point, FY gives some loose indications about fate of the other White factions. Communications between Siberian and Southern Whites was often done through...London, yes and Kolchak listened to the bolshevik radio to learn about Sothern Whites events...

[image]http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/7775/crucialturn.jpg[/image]

Asin the official game, This is the turn ending the Czech active participation in RCW, except if Siberian has chosen an alternative path...more later on this one.

Last, the objective situation at the end of this turn:

[image]http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6281/objectives.jpg[/image]

Red NM is a little low, an effect of the capture of Ekaterinodar and Perm, but the overall situation between the 3 main factions is rather balanced. Reds are leading the Victory points race, myself being relegated very far behind [:D]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 11:33:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

And here are the files for Clovis to check.



Thanks. Going to check this.[:)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/4/2011 11:37:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Just came back. I remember reading from Mannerheim's memoirs that he didn't appreciate Judenits' (Finnish spelling) personality - not energetic enough. It may have been some sort of an afterthought - after WWII Mannerheim was pretty careful in writing about that period of Russo-Finnish relationships...



Maybe. Or his remark is the result of Yudenich's failure to convince Kolchak to grant independance. But there are several sources pointing out Mannerheim inclination to capture Petrograd, a desire backed by a clever strategical thinking. I'm convinced contrary to many, Mannerheim didn't underestimated the Bolshevik capacity to saty in power and build a strong army threatening in the long run Finnish independance.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 7:49:46 AM)

Clovis, I think you have overdone Red AI's southern emphasis. It's early May 1920 and it has been too easy for Judenits to close in on Moscow when majority of the Reds are operating in the south. Also I have yet never seen the Reds attack Estonia.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 8:24:20 AM)

It is happening again! [X(]

[image]local://upfiles/5859/C575CEC0E4614CCBA5E5BF34E4367F69.jpg[/image]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 8:48:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Clovis, I think you have overdone Red AI's southern emphasis. It's early May 1920 and it has been too easy for Judenits to close in on Moscow when majority of the Reds are operating in the south. Also I have yet never seen the Reds attack Estonia.



I'm working on. [:)]In fact there are 2 problems: first the RED AI because of a wrong date in the events file diesn't build as much since some months in your game. Then it was too easy to build a large Yudenich Army in the North for Southern Whites, when Whites had very few conscripts in reality. So you're stronger and Red AI is weaker. The next version will address this.

I've chosen to let the pool unchanged but unit construction cost will be higher. IMHO a good solution to keep the game in historical rails but with some possibility of alternate strategy [;)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 8:52:35 AM)

For the rest, Siberian files have been slighty tweaked to slow the NM loss ( a probability for an event was too high) and I fixed a bugged event. In any case, I will upload a new patch compatible with ongoing game.

I've looked at the REd AI file. They work as intended, ie Northern and Western Theaters aren't neglected. But the AI lacks troops.

I've too lowered a bit Poland Army in the first months of 1919.



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