RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (Full Version)

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Nikel -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 9:48:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

Thanks. I will look on KENEZ books ASAP. [:)]



Keep in mind that as they are fully visible, they can also be downloaded in pdf, if you know how to [:'(]

Yes, I know you do not like pdf... [:)]


And rtf? The rules of S&T 267 Russian Civil War, perhaps you can get some ideas [;)]

http://strategyandtacticspress.com/S_T_267_RssnCvlWar.rtf



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 10:05:59 AM)

Patch 1.1 uploaded on my blog ( see my sig) . Compatible with ongoing games. It includes patch1 contents.

Fixes some balance problems described above a one bugged event.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 10:42:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

Thanks. I will look on KENEZ books ASAP. [:)]



Keep in mind that as they are fully visible, they can also be downloaded in pdf, if you know how to [:'(]

Yes, I know you do not like pdf... [:)]


And rtf? The rules of S&T 267 Russian Civil War, perhaps you can get some ideas [;)]

http://strategyandtacticspress.com/S_T_267_RssnCvlWar.rtf



I don't forget[;)] bUt I'm now reading the ones I've got. Kenez will be a smart addition to my readings in a few weeks.

I've read the article in S&T ( remmebering old times BTW when I have to purchase them in United States with 7 weeks delivery delay [;)]). I've not learnt much but it could be a good introduction to FY. I've appreciated the summary of Freikorps history, and I 'm proud FY is assessing much more rightly this than the official game [:)]

Thanks for the rules. You may have access too to the Triumph of Chaos rules on Boardgamegeek and Ted Raicer's RED on GMT site. Both games are really different and clever about game design on the subject. I should advise AGEOD to take a step back by reading these ( and others) to learn again how to design a game. They have lost the secret. [:(]



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 12:16:08 PM)

Is it possible to tie AIL to any battle casualties? I could imagine the outrage if every British ship was sunk in front of Petrograd (silly move I just had to try) effectively ending any British involvement...



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 12:20:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic
I've chosen to let the pool unchanged but unit construction cost will be higher. IMHO a good solution to keep the game in historical rails but with some possibility of alternate strategy [;)]


Are you sure about this? From gaming point of view the only real difference I see here is that the Red AI is concentrating too many troops to the south. It concentrated too many to the north a couple of versions ago, so the situation is now just reversed, roughly speaking.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 12:37:33 PM)

Anyhow, I feel like restarting, which may sound odd after the action packed summer of 1919, but due to the AIL-problems in the very crucial moment of the game, British Navy silliness by me, and weak Siberians I feel like losing already! Also Judenits' offensive is not going to sustainable because I've ran into problem in depot building: for some reason I couldn't build a depot at Novgorod.

Well, I'll continue until I find how well defended Moscow is.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:04:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Is it possible to tie AIL to any battle casualties? I could imagine the outrage if every British ship was sunk in front of Petrograd (silly move I just had to try) effectively ending any British involvement...



Yes, but very complex. A simpler way would be to raise the VP values of British ships.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:10:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic
I've chosen to let the pool unchanged but unit construction cost will be higher. IMHO a good solution to keep the game in historical rails but with some possibility of alternate strategy [;)]


Are you sure about this? From gaming point of view the only real difference I see here is that the Red AI is concentrating too many troops to the south. It concentrated too many to the north a couple of versions ago, so the situation is now just reversed, roughly speaking.



RED AI may choose several plans, emphacizing one front rather than another. If I lock the Red AI to Northern theater, and a southern white player chooses to concentrate on Tzaritsyn, we will have the reverse problem. Moreover, in your game, Red AI is considering Northern and western theaters among the 4 main areas to fight. Unfortunately, the script done to force AI to build more divisions with its current resources ended around May 19. With a few more divisions, the AI would have taken the offensive in the North but the current ratio frightens it too much for undertaking offensive actions. Add to this Poland a bit overpowered and Recruitment too esay for Yudenich forces and you get some balance troubles in the North.

At least, this situation shows well why Tzaritsyn is the key point to protect or enter Kuban area [:)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:11:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Anyhow, I feel like restarting, which may sound odd after the action packed summer of 1919, but due to the AIL-problems in the very crucial moment of the game, British Navy silliness by me, and weak Siberians I feel like losing already! Also Judenits' offensive is not going to sustainable because I've ran into problem in depot building: for some reason I couldn't build a depot at Novgorod.

Well, I'll continue until I find how well defended Moscow is.


Thanks for your input anyway [:)]. The Novgorod depot is puzzling me, but if ever it's a bug, it has to do with the official exe.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:22:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

Thanks for your input anyway [:)]. The Novgorod depot is puzzling me, but if ever it's a bug, it has to do with the official exe.


Yes, it's offal exe problem. There have been these cases where a depot cannot be build even if the conditions are favourable. It happens time to time.

Judenits has been defeated at Moscow, so it's time for a new campaign...



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:29:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

Thanks for your input anyway [:)]. The Novgorod depot is puzzling me, but if ever it's a bug, it has to do with the official exe.


Judenits has been defeated at Moscow, so it's time for a new campaign...



[:'(]

Wait a few minutes. I've altered the VP values of French and UK BBs. Yet to be integrated in the patch.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:38:28 PM)

patch 1.11 uploaded on my blog ( see my sig). Changes the VP values of Battleships for England and France. Compatible with ongoing game. The patch contains the 1.1 patch contents too. Just apply after having installed FY mod.



Nikel -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:41:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

I've appreciated the summary of Freikorps history, and I 'm proud FY is assessing much more rightly this than the official game [:)]



Regarding the Freikorps there area a lot of info in this link

http://pygmy-wars.50megs.com/history/latvia/latviaintro.html


Smele considers Vanguard of Nazism as excellent, though the author of pygmy-wars site doestn't think the same

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vanguard-Nazism-Movement-Postwar-1918-1923/dp/0393001814/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312548016&sr=1-2



quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

I should advise AGEOD to take a step back by reading these ( and others) to learn again how to design a game. They have lost the secret. [:(]




But you enjoy a lot their games [;)]



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 1:44:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

patch 1.11 uploaded on my blog ( see my sig). Changes the VP values of Battleships for England and France. Compatible with ongoing game. The patch contains the 1.1 patch contents too. Just apply after having installed FY mod.


Cheers!



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 2:22:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

I've appreciated the summary of Freikorps history, and I 'm proud FY is assessing much more rightly this than the official game [:)]



Regarding the Freikorps there area a lot of info in this link

http://pygmy-wars.50megs.com/history/latvia/latviaintro.html


Smele considers Vanguard of Nazism as excellent, though the author of pygmy-wars site doestn't think the same

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Vanguard-Nazism-Movement-Postwar-1918-1923/dp/0393001814/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1312548016&sr=1-2



quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

I should advise AGEOD to take a step back by reading these ( and others) to learn again how to design a game. They have lost the secret. [:(]




But you enjoy a lot their games [;)]



Thanks; I will take a look. [:)]

I like the AGE engine, especially the 2.0 version. The 3.0 (PON) is promising but buggy at present and diplomacy is far from being perfect.

The AGE engine is marvelous for creating games between let's say 1600 to 1870, with some exceptions ike RCW [:)] ( After 1870, only wars with low density troops may be used, like Boer wars and RCW).

But the engine itself doesn't create magically great games by just assembling the data about regions and units. Ageod has a great engine, is very good at collecting and putting the data, but incredibly gifted to create poor scenarios since AACW.

NCP? AGEOD forgot their engine is suited for large operational/strategic affaires and released scenarios about too small campaigns to be interesting. They forgot too AI should be able to put some sort of real fight, but the AI wasn't able to give some sort of opposition , because they underestimated how much more units would reinforce AI weaknesses AACW and BOA masked by low density situations.

WIA? The good came from the BOA design. Critics has showed the new features weren't tailored to fit with the BOA legacy. AI had diificulties with unit cohesion, options haven't renewed game interest, etc.

ROP? Business failure. In part because before I worked a bit on the 1.03 patch, AI was helpless and game won after 10 turns. The Pirna event has never delivered correct results for AI or PBEM. Options were too cheap to be a choice rather than a no brainer click.

PON? Some great design ideas, a myriad of details. Between a full lack of thinking about gameplay. What is the interest of having 30 sorts of production types if in the end , "for simplicity sake", your pop ulation just considers goods in 3 large categories? Why having a gazillion units if the German/French frontier is 2 regions wide? Why having 15 days turns in a game where any colonization effort is needing 5 to 10 years to be achieved? Is there really a need to have a mission policy and a Trade one, when effects are about the same?

AGEOD error is here: having a great engine and a full wagon of details and accurate data don't produce in themselves a good game. They have lost the focus, one dev being focalized on the engine, the second on the data. between, there is nothing. Most has been said about prematurate releases and bugs. IMHO, the most capital point is this unfinished state shows first scenario aren't really tested before release. Without test, a real work on gamaplay can't occur and in the end, the gamplay itself is boring or unchallenging, or boresome like no brainer options you have to choose as soon as possible.

I don't want to be harsh with AGEOD. They do their best, and they are certainly too friendly to clean a little their volunteer team, or to rethink their design process by integrating AI consideration and other points. But, when you have collected a serie of business failures and when regularly the team is showing its weaknesses, bey changing nothing you're responsible of your fate. That's a shame, but they are in charge of. I wish them good luck, especially when you're reading the last aberration of their "coordinator" who is the main culprit of the destruction of the AACW volunteer team and is today achieving his carrer at AGEOD the same manner he has acted in the backdoor. I Know you know what I mean [:)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 5:03:25 PM)

Second November turn:

With the German withdrawal, I get my first Army around Petrograd, 2 units at Pskov, created by Germany from Russian POW in the late months of the war.

[image]http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/6559/vonneiff.jpg[/image]


Conrary to the official game, Southern Whites in FY controls only Yudenich Army and Balt troops. German Freikorps is an independent faction, like Poland. Murmansk and Arkhanglesk Russian forces are under Siberian control.

Why? First because it gives to Siberian faction a window to Finland and an incentive to reey Arkhangelsk to Perm. Miller at Murmansk was refering mostly to Kolchak. You will reply Yudenich too [:D]. Yes, but giving to the same faction control of Both Miller and Yudenich will lead to concentric attacks against petrograd from Murmansk and Balt regions, a mere impossibility given distances and lack of communications at this time.

Siberian AI is able to cope with this change and is regularly launching offensives:

[image]http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/527/murmansksib.jpg[/image]

German Withdrawal in Ukraine opens to me more possibilities but 2 more hostile factions: Ukrainians in yellow and Anarchists in dark. Both factions in FY are AI driven, independent and ACTIVE. They move and fight, and it has been reported in another game Anarchists have captured Azov [:D]

[image]http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2387/freeukraone.jpg[/image]

But before invading the rich Ukraine to get more resources and conscripts, I must capture Novosomething and smash the Red Army withdrawing toward Tzaritsyn now the snow has fallen. My division at Novosomething is unfortunately unactive this turn, but Krasnov has won over the main Red stack,.

[image]http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/171/cossackvictoryinthesnow.jpg[/image]

The situation at the end of this turn:

[image]http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/5738/latenovembersituation.jpg[/image]

Siberians have won a impressive serie of victories, controlling Perm, Samara, Kazan, Penza. The Red moral is low, under 90.

[image]http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/4657/volgalatenovember.jpg[/image]







Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 8:30:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic

patch 1.11 uploaded on my blog ( see my sig). Changes the VP values of Battleships for England and France. Compatible with ongoing game. The patch contains the 1.1 patch contents too. Just apply after having installed FY mod.


Cheers!


OOps I didn't noticed your new sig [8D].

It makes me immensely proud, RUS deserves really a larger audience. [:)]



Nikel -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 9:14:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic
I wish them good luck, especially when you're reading the last aberration of their "coordinator" who is the main culprit of the destruction of the AACW volunteer team and is today achieving his carrer at AGEOD the same manner he has acted in the backdoor. I Know you know what I mean [:)]


Errr...

Let's continue with the RCW, or you will oblige me to ask you about what happened with Seb and CatLord [:'(]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 9:27:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic
I wish them good luck, especially when you're reading the last aberration of their "coordinator" who is the main culprit of the destruction of the AACW volunteer team and is today achieving his carrer at AGEOD the same manner he has acted in the backdoor. I Know you know what I mean [:)]


Errr...

Let's continue with the RCW, or you will oblige me to ask you about what happened with Seb and CatLord [:'(]


I was just reacting to the current news on the AGEOD forum[;)] I must say removing about 3,000 of his posts as a sanction because of a new flamewar involving him and an Ageod customer is an outcome I can't understand....[&:] Reminds me JastaV removing his mod. I should have done the same, for FY [:D].

For the rest, just look at the current state of official version of RUS (like the hotfix to the hotfix) and to this Matrix forum: you will note all news about RUS official patches are mine. Just mine.

Back to FY [:)]



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 9:46:23 PM)

One thing I noticed with the restarted campaign but didn't have time to report yet: it's April 1919 and the Polish morale is 45. Doesn't sound like WAD to me. Save attached.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 9:52:51 PM)

Options in FY resort to 2 main categories:

- the strategical ones, very costly, representing fundamental choices like recognizing independence for minorities in exchange of their military support;

- the tactical ones, cheaper, giving slight bonus against side effects.

As examples of the latter, here 2 of the Southern Whites options:

[image]http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/8823/corruption.jpg[/image]

[image]http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8476/liberals.jpg[/image]

I'm going to clean the text BTW [:D]


Thse 2 options aren't powerful tools but they may help for example to regain some loyalty to lower risk of Green insurrections. Of course, they are easier to use when your NM is high nad when you have EPs, ie when you're victorious on the field.

Losing NM could seem curious, but NM is representing more the morale of the members of your faction rather than the morale of the population living under your authority. As your mmembers are politically ostile to concessions, or prone to corruption, the NM losses figure their disapproval of your politics, contrary to the satisfaction among people.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 9:55:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

One thing I noticed with the restarted campaign but didn't have time to report yet: it's April 1919 and the Polish morale is 45. Doesn't sound like WAD to me. Save attached.


Is Poland at war? If yes it's a bug. If not it's wad. When Poland is activated, NM will raise due the AGE engine...



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 10:03:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

One thing I noticed with the restarted campaign but didn't have time to report yet: it's April 1919 and the Polish morale is 45. Doesn't sound like WAD to me. Save attached.


Is Poland at war? If yes it's a bug. If not it's wad. When Poland is activated, NM will raise due the AGE engine...


Ok, I figured that could be the case. No bug then. [:)]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 10:08:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chliperic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

One thing I noticed with the restarted campaign but didn't have time to report yet: it's April 1919 and the Polish morale is 45. Doesn't sound like WAD to me. Save attached.


Is Poland at war? If yes it's a bug. If not it's wad. When Poland is activated, NM will raise due the AGE engine...


Ok, I figured that could be the case. No bug then. [:)]



If Poland enters war, let me know its NM. Like anything adressing a shortcoming of the game engine, the fix can reveal itself as a problem ( not a critic of the game engine [8D] as this is unavaoidable and AGE offers tools to fix that).



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/5/2011 10:23:04 PM)

I'll let you know if it doesn't jump to the usual war-time levels.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/6/2011 11:53:42 AM)

Now I can't build a depot at Ekaterinoslav. I hate this "official" bug! [:@]

edit: actually in this case the supply wagons were not strong enough for a depot, so not a bug. [:o]



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/6/2011 1:49:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Now I can't build a depot at Ekaterinoslav. I hate this "official" bug! [:@]

edit: actually in this case the supply wagons were not strong enough for a depot, so not a bug. [:o]


The hotfix to the hotfix of the official 1.03 RUS patch ( [:D]) is in very good shape, the residual bugs being seempingly few and minor from my own tests.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/6/2011 1:55:10 PM)

Now I can report that activating Judenits has been unsuccesful for 2 turns. My guess is that because Reds haven't declared war on Balts, there's a problem.



JJKettunen -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/6/2011 2:00:30 PM)

Save attached. I'll be away from the comp for a while.



Chilperic -> RE: Fatal Years for 1.03 (8/6/2011 2:16:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Keke

Now I can report that activating Judenits has been unsuccesful for 2 turns. My guess is that because Reds haven't declared war on Balts, there's a problem.



The bug is Yudenich option to be available. Indeed Yudenich option is available when:

- Reds have declared war on Balts
-Whites have recognized independance for minorities and got the Balts as allies in the war.

Yudenich couldn't have operated from Estonia at peace with the Bolsheviks. The Estonian officials were very reluctant to help Whites and they furnished a somehow minimal support only when Reds attacked them and yet under British pressure and with real reticence. BTW they did the same with Lithuanina, conditioning their help to territorial concessions [:D]

I will fix that: Yudenich option will appear only when the conditions will be met.

Last, it will remain a small chance to get Yudenich army even if conditions aren't fulfilled, by event. An event to figure all the possibilties, even the tiniest, like Estonia supporting Yudenich even without being involved in RCW.



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